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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1675465]Taken to jail on what grounds?
The squadron Supreme summarily executed an individual who had been responsible for multiple atrocities on his own planet as well as across multiple alternate realities and in doing so, they actually fulfilled a promise that T'Challa failed to follow through himself.
[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/2vn1ieh.jpg[/IMG]
Moving forward, I know which characters I take a helluva lot more seriously.[/QUOTE]
SS murdered a kingdom man
Unless u think everyone magically teleportrd out of the city hyperion ripped out of the ocean and tosses
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1676477]SS murdered a kingdom man
Unless u think everyone magically teleportrd out of the city hyperion ripped out of the ocean and tosses[/QUOTE]
The Squadron went too far... and I'm sure they'll pay a price for it sooner or later. Likely later, since they have an on-going book.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1676451]Would people have prefereed it if Liss used say Falcon instead?
I agree it would have made more sense, but I personally still would prefer T'Challa because if nothing else, I like T'Challa better and want to see him in an on-going more.[/QUOTE]
Oh, any number of characters would have been more logical...Falcon, Iron Fist, Shang Chi. But it's obvious that the editors wanted shake things up so they turned BP's status quo on its head. It's something that could have gone terribly wrong, Liss was able to give us some decent comics.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1676482]The Squadron went too far... and I'm sure they'll pay a price for it sooner or later. Likely later, since they have an on-going book.[/QUOTE]
I'm really curious if Robinson will truly deal with the moral implications he's setting up or if the comic will just be "look how [B]bad-ass[/B] we are!"
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[QUOTE=ed2962;1676494]Oh, any number of characters would have been more logical...Falcon, Iron Fist, Shang Chi. But it's obvious that the editors wanted shake things up so they turned BP's status quo on its head. It's something that could have gone terribly wrong, Liss was able to give us some decent comics.[/QUOTE]
Since they gave T'Challa's status quo to Shuri, it was a good a time as any to try something different. And I'd say it worked (IMO of course) ... I'll still argue it was the best BP run since Priest.
And when the book ran it's course, he ended up going back to Wakanda to do Hickmans. No harm no foul. I think it's a good thing to not be afraid to shake up a characters status quo. These are characters who ideally are going to be written for decades. I think you need to be willing to do that every once in awhile to keep things fresh.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;1676497]I'm really curious if Robinson will truly deal with the moral implications he's setting up or if the comic will just be "look how [B]bad-ass[/B] we are!"[/QUOTE]
Well, he is setting SHIELD and the Avengers after the Squadron so in the least we're seeing people NOT be okay with what they're doing. We'll see how far things go with that.
I'm assuming Hyperion at least will eventually get some sort of "face turn" and challenge the notion of this group playing judge, jury and executioner. But obviously that's just a guess. We'll see.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;1676497]I'm really curious if Robinson will truly deal with the moral implications he's setting up or if the comic will just be "look how [B]bad-ass[/B] we are!"[/QUOTE]
If number 1 is any indication, he is going tp deal with it with a sledge hammer of poor writing
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1676524]If number 1 is any indication, he is going tp deal with it with a sledge hammer of poor writing[/QUOTE]
How can you say that? Was Cry for Justice not the height of quality writing?
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not saying it will happen but it seems like BP might be chasing some heroes with his Jet. My body is ready
[img]https://i.imgur.com/aWDOzuU.jpg[/img]
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That was posted a while back but it still looks really nice.
I don't think the jet will appear in the chase scene though. The Lego set seems to be an exaggerated version of the chase we saw in the trailer where Panther is going after Bucky.
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Honestly, the thing that has me most interested in the Civil War toys is that tonfa that War Machine is brandishing. It's present in this lego set and the Hot Toys one, so it's likely in the film. Curious to see just what it does.
And I hope BP's jet makes the film and that it's high-tech as all get out. Would make up for them stripping the Quinjet from him. Though the way things have been going in sci-fi/fantasy films, they'll probably credit the jet to Stark too.
Also, if you haven't seen it yet, make sure that the Franchise Film 7 that you see this weekend is Creed.
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Joblo says the jet is in the movie and they've been right about everything else so far.
[url]http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/exclusive-new-civil-war-details-on-black-panther-the-falcon-more-807[/url]
I just don't expect it to be in that scene specifically, nor do I expect Captain America to be keeping up with a jet by using a...jeep.
[QUOTE]Also, if you haven't seen it yet, make sure that the Franchise Film 7 that you see this weekend is Creed.[/QUOTE]
Creed did 5 mil this weekend. It's holding on at the #5 position but everything is getting clobbered this weekend. In hindsight, they could have picked a better release date than late November.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/YRDFa7S.png[/IMG]
87 million isn't a bad bow for a boxing movie, though and it least it didn't flop like Heart of the Sea.
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Although, the silver lining is that it might make him easier to negotiate with since he's not gonna have the pull F. Gary Gray had.
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[QUOTE=Holt;1676741]Joblo says the jet is in the movie and they've been right about everything else so far.
[url]http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/exclusive-new-civil-war-details-on-black-panther-the-falcon-more-807[/url]
I just don't expect it to be in that scene specifically, nor do I expect Captain America to be keeping up with a jet by using a...jeep.
Creed did 5 mil this weekend. It's holding on at the #5 position but everything is getting clobbered this weekend. In hindsight, they could have picked a better release date than late November.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/YRDFa7S.png[/IMG]
87 million isn't a bad bow for a boxing movie, though and it least it didn't flop like Heart of the Sea.[/QUOTE]
Why the hell did any movie open eithin a month ofcsw?
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[QUOTE=Holt;1676790]Although, the silver lining is that it might make him easier to negotiate with since he's not gonna have the pull F. Gary Gray had.[/QUOTE]
I was watching this interview where he talked about Creed and he said he had the idea to make Creed due to the relationship with his father. And you know T'Challa's dad is till alive (according to feige) so I hope he will get the gig based on the fact that he would want to create that relationship of T'Challa and T'Chaka on the big screen.
[video=youtube;CEw1vwwVyI4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEw1vwwVyI4[/video]
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;1676834]I was watching this interview where he talked about Creed and he said he had the idea to make Creed due to the relationship with his father. And you know T'Challa's dad is till alive (according to feige) so I hope he will get the gig based on the fact that he would want to create that relationship of T'Challa and T'Chaka on the big screen.
[video=youtube;CEw1vwwVyI4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEw1vwwVyI4[/video][/QUOTE]
That would be really interesting. I feel like T'Chaka is kind of underutilized by a lot of writers, so actually dealing with his importance to T'Challa before having him die would be a very good narrative choice.
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[QUOTE=Holt;1676838]That would be really interesting. I feel like T'Chaka is kind of underutilized by a lot of writers, so actually dealing with his importance to T'Challa before having him die would be a very good narrative choice.[/QUOTE]
[B]I think it would be cool to have a story arc in in which T'Challa goes back in time or something and meets his dad as an adult, this would be more significant if the KotD talking to previous Panthers was erased but not could be a cool way for them to interact with each other and their relationship
On a side note finally read SS and that was pretty weak start. Like everything was rushed, the dialogue was weak and really to make it a better build up they should ofbused #1 to get ready for Namor's death in #2 (and come up with a better way to end him and Atlantis,) seriously the whole thing was just rushed and terrible writing and the art didn't help either[/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;1676447]I think a lot of writers these days like deconstruction.
[B]Wolverine was depowered and killed off. Captain America has lost his mantle for the second time, first being killed off and now being depowered. Thor lost his arm & hammer (no trademark infringement intended) and his very name to his ex-girlfriend. Stark was invested and is having cash flow issues for the gazillionth time. [/B]
Really the only big name character that has it good these days is ironically Spider-Man. And he's coming off losing his marriage and getting his body hijacked by Doc Oc.
For whatever reason, perhaps simply preference, I think writers enjoy putting these characters through ringer more than just having them punch out bad guys. But the upside is that all of it is temporary... they go back to status quo soon enough. Steve will be back as Cap, Odinson will be back as Thor, Stark will be making it rain again soon enough, and all will be well with the world... until the next writer comes along and messes with them again. We are seemingly seeing T'Challa that way as he seemingly has everything back that he lost since Doom War.[/QUOTE]
In order for this comparison to remotely work, you'd intentionally have to leave out that [B]each and every one[/B] of those characters you named has has a longer history of being built up. In addition to having had mountains clear cut victories. Which makes your average loss with them almost irrelevant. Because they have like a few dozen major victories to counteract each loss multiple times over. Anyone who's actually read BP knows that the same can't be said for him. So to engage in co-signing on deconstructionism like it's some Zero-Sum Game, "[I]because it happens to others[/I]" is a bit [SIZE=1](or rather "[I]incredibly[/I]")[/SIZE] disingenuous.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1676872][B]I think it would be cool to have a story arc in in which T'Challa goes back in time or something and meets his dad as an adult, this would be more significant if the KotD talking to previous Panthers was erased but not could be a cool way for them to interact with each other and their relationship
On a side note finally read SS and that was pretty weak start. Like everything was rushed, the dialogue was weak and really to make it a better build up they should ofbused #1 to get ready for Namor's death in #2 (and come up with a better way to end him and Atlantis,) seriously the whole thing was just rushed and terrible writing and the art didn't help either[/B][/QUOTE]
Though the execution was flawed I sort of liked what they were doing in principal. They were trying to start off with a bang, and really differentiate this team from the Avengers and the various other MU teams. Also, it wasn't bogged down with a lot of exposition which most issue 1's are.
Again, I felt there were flaws in the execution... at least with Hyperion I frankly needed a bit more exposition to really make his involvement work. But I think the book was attemptiong to achieve a desired effect... and in many ways it suceeded.
As far as going back in time... he does have those Frogs things. It might be cool if they did some sort of story where T'Challa had to work with previous BP's for something. Some of those previous BP's looked interesting. One seemed to be an actual cat for example. And I thought the one wearing a suit was kinda cool. There's definately some fun things which can be played with if a writer wants to go there.
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[QUOTE=J.D. Owe;1677064]In order for this comparison to remotely work, you'd intentionally have to leave out that [B]each and every one[/B] of those characters you named has has a longer history of being built up. In addition to having had mountains clear cut victories. Which makes your average loss with them almost irrelevant. Because they have like a few dozen major victories to counteract each loss multiple times over. Anyone who's actually read BP knows that the same can't be said for him. So to engage in co-signing on deconstructionism like it's some Zero-Sum Game, "[I]because it happens to others[/I]" is a bit [SIZE=1](or rather "[I]incredibly[/I]")[/SIZE] disingenuous.[/QUOTE]
Quoted for truth.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1677094]Though the execution was flawed I sort of liked what they were doing in principal. They were trying to start off with a bang, and really differentiate this team from the Avengers and the various other MU teams. Also, it wasn't bogged down with a lot of exposition which most issue 1's are.
Again, I felt there were flaws in the execution... at least with Hyperion I frankly needed a bit more exposition to really make his involvement work. But I think the book was attemptiong to achieve a desired effect... and in many ways it suceeded.
As far as going back in time... he does have those Frogs things. It might be cool if they did some sort of story where T'Challa had to work with previous BP's for something. Some of those previous BP's looked interesting. One seemed to be an actual cat for example. And I thought the one wearing a suit was kinda cool. There's definately some fun things which can be played with if a writer wants to go there.[/QUOTE]
[B]it's fine that they want them to be different from other Avenger's teams, and the premise is a good one to rub with, but the story was bad, sometimes you need exposition longer then a page so you can get the right build up. Reading that was like I jumped right into the middle of a story and being like ok whatbis going on. To take down Namor should of shown some prep work and giving you an idea of how they were gonna take him down. Because Basically the plan was basically have Hyperion kill Namor.
It would of been better to see them pull a plan in him and outmaneuver him but all that happened was Namor knocked Hyperion away and then he lifted the city while Namor was still fighting. Nothing looked like a plan or strategy.
As for BP it would be cool to see him meet his ancestors like bashenga, atleast. Ab maybe have him meet his dad as well [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1677198][B]it's fine that they want them to be different from other Avenger's teams, and the premise is a good one to rub with, but the story was bad, sometimes you need exposition longer then a page so you can get the right build up. Reading that was like I jumped right into the middle of a story and being like ok whatbis going on. To take down Namor should of shown some prep work and giving you an idea of how they were gonna take him down. Because Basically the plan was basically have Hyperion kill Namor.
It would of been better to see them pull a plan in him and outmaneuver him but all that happened was Namor knocked Hyperion away and then he lifted the city while Namor was still fighting. Nothing looked like a plan or strategy.
As for BP it would be cool to see him meet his ancestors like bashenga, atleast. Ab maybe have him meet his dad as well [/B][/QUOTE]
If Hyperion can effectively kill Namor with one shot, then frankly not a whole lot of prep work was needed on the part of the Squadron beyond convincing Hyperion to actually do it. Really Hype did all the work. He destroyed the city and killed Namor. The rest were just a distraction. The Squadron frankly had Namor a bit outclassed... though he did hold his own.
Given that Steve worked with T'Challa's grandad in World War 2, that might be another fun BP from the past to see more of. Maybe someone could even do an Invaders story or something with him. That was the one other Panther (apart from Shuri of course) we really got to see on panel, which was nice.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1677221]If Hyperion can effectively kill Namor with one shot, then frankly not a whole lot of prep work was needed on the part of the Squadron beyond convincing Hyperion to actually do it. Really Hype did all the work. He destroyed the city and killed Namor. The rest were just a distraction. The Squadron frankly had Namor a bit outclassed... though he did hold his own.
Given that Steve worked with T'Challa's grandad in World War 2, that might be another fun BP from the past to see more of. Maybe someone could even do an Invaders story or something with him. That was the one other Panther (apart from Shuri of course) we really got to see on panel, which was nice.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it was more the decision to kill Namor that was the difficulty for them. He was outgunned and unprepared. Their next target likely will be more wary.
I also would like to see more historical Black Panthers. If they did an Invaders comic in the style of Spidey (set in continuity but tweaked due to Secret Wars) it would be cool to see the WWII one either as a guest star or a member of the team!
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I would like to see TChaka with the Invadera but not as the Black Panther. I dont see TChaka letting the world know that the Black Panther exist. Maybe go under another guise like the Coal Tiger
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1677311]I would like to see TChaka with the Invadera but not as the Black Panther. I dont see TChaka letting the world know that the Black Panther exist. Maybe go under another guise like the Coal Tiger[/QUOTE]
During WW2 the Black Panther was actually Azzuri (marvels sliding timescale would make T'Challa's dad be too young to be around in WW2). But because he already interacted with Steve in theory the world probably knows about the Black Panther unless he maybe asked Steve to keep it a secret or whatever.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1677319]During WWE the Black Panther was actually Azzuri (marvels sliding timescale would make T'Challa's dad be too young to be around in WW2). But because he already interacted with Steve in theory the world probably knows about the Black Panther unless he maybe asked Steve to keep it a secret or whatever.[/QUOTE]
I don't really see how the world wouldn't know about the title of the Black Panther, given that scientists, artists and musicians were invited regularly to the country since it first debuted. Plus while it has never been conquered, people have tried many, many times. The title of the leader would be known.
Hell, if anything I would expect there too have been pulp fiction that was wildly inaccurate about it from the Victorian era onwards. The Victorians would have found Wakanda to be as juicily exotic as Egypt- Black Panther should be legendary outside of Wakanda in a "I thought that was fiction" type way. I can even see the outside world viewing the Black Panther as like the Phantom- one man fighting to defend his people and against evil for all time. More myth than man.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1677221]If Hyperion can effectively kill Namor with one shot, then frankly not a whole lot of prep work was needed on the part of the Squadron beyond convincing Hyperion to actually do it. Really Hype did all the work. He destroyed the city and killed Namor. The rest were just a distraction. The Squadron frankly had Namor a bit outclassed... though he did hold his own.
Given that Steve worked with T'Challa's grandad in World War 2, that might be another fun BP from the past to see more of. Maybe someone could even do an Invaders story or something with him. That was the one other Panther (apart from Shuri of course) we really got to see on panel, which was nice.[/QUOTE]
[B]It was underwhelming really. And the death of a hero that is one of Marvels oldest hero's should of been a better send of then that. A little more fight, a little more set up for their brilliant plans other then "Sic Em Hyperion". Maybe it might get better but right now, it was a weak start with bad art and worse writing [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1678452][B]It was underwhelming really. And the death of a hero that is one of Marvels oldest hero's should of been a better send of then that. A little more fight, a little more set up for their brilliant plans other then "Sic Em Hyperion". Maybe it might get better but right now, it was a weak start with bad art and worse writing [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree that he should have gotten a grander more heroic send off. I still think given the situation what we saw was believable... but the intend was more to make the Squadron look good than Namor. You can argue it shouldn't have been, but that's what they were going for.
That said, I'm also fairly convinced one way or another he'll be back so this won't end up that big a deal anyways.
As far as the book goes... I won't say it's a BAD start but I will say it's fairly mediocre. Because this particular franchise has a fairly strong legacy of strong writing (Gruenwalds and JMS's specifically), I think that frankly makes it look that much more obvious. But I'll give it a whole arc before I decide to bail. I still see potential here, even though honestly I'm not particualry liking the cast at this point.
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It sounds like Black Panther and/or Wakanda will appear in International Iron Man.
[QUOTE][B]What's it like playing in Marvel's global sandbox? It seems like there's a lot of new toys out there for you to play with in terms of heroes and other countries.[/B]
Absolutely, and there are pockets of the Marvel Universe that are going to be very big in the spotlight over the next couple years. Everyone saw that the Black Panther was on the cover of "Entertainment Weekly." There are pockets of the Marvel Universe that are just fascinating on their own, and I think Tony, as a fish out of water in these areas, is as interesting a book as you can make around them.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/bendis-maleev-send-international-iron-man-on-a-quest-for-his-true-parentage[/url]
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[QUOTE=XPac;1678509]I agree that he should have gotten a grander more heroic send off. I still think given the situation what we saw was believable... but the intend was more to make the Squadron look good than Namor. You can argue it shouldn't have been, but that's what they were going for.
That said, I'm also fairly convinced one way or another he'll be back so this won't end up that big a deal anyways.
As far as the book goes... I won't say it's a BAD start but I will say it's fairly mediocre. Because this particular franchise has a fairly strong legacy of strong writing (Gruenwalds and JMS's specifically), I think that frankly makes it look that much more obvious. But I'll give it a whole arc before I decide to bail. I still see potential here, even though honestly I'm not particualry liking the cast at this point.[/QUOTE]
I would have settled for less heroic. Show me as a reader why this man has to die. Show me the people that drowned to death in Wakanda and America because Namor was in the right. Show me Doc Spectrum family before Namor pulled the trigger. Give me some damn humanity.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1678552]I would have settled for less heroic. Show me as a reader why this man has to die. Show me the people that drowned to death in Wakanda and America because Namor was in the right. Show me Doc Spectrum family before Namor pulled the trigger. Give me some damn humanity.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I'm not entirely sure the point of the story was that Namor HAD to die. Granted that's subjective... but I think the idea the story was trying to sell was less that this was justice and more that this was revenge from a bunch of psychopaths. Which isn't to say we didn't get that aside of the story... Spectrum and a few people interviewed at the end represented that side of the arguement.
But I think more than anything this was setting up the idea that the Squadron right out of the gate are going too far, which in turn will create conflict with the rest of the hero community. The Avengers family in particular.
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[QUOTE=Holt;1678540]It sounds like Black Panther and/or Wakanda will appear in International Iron Man.
[url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/bendis-maleev-send-international-iron-man-on-a-quest-for-his-true-parentage[/url][/QUOTE]
Well that makes sense since the title is called International Iron Man
Also, been reading the Invincible Iron Man and I have to say that it is the best thing Bendis has written in a while
Hope Coates can make the new series as fun if not better than that
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[QUOTE=XPac;1678734]Honestly I'm not entirely sure the point of the story was that Namor HAD to die. Granted that's subjective... but I think the idea the story was trying to sell was less that this was justice and more that this was revenge from a bunch of psychopaths. Which isn't to say we didn't get that aside of the story... Spectrum and a few people interviewed at the end represented that side of the arguement.
But I think more than anything this was setting up the idea that the Squadron right out of the gate are going too far, which in turn will create conflict with the rest of the hero community. The Avengers family in particular.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that Dr Spectrum is a psycopath?
[SIZE=3]
Because if that's the case, you might as well go right along and call the Illuminati "psychopaths" as well for building world destroying bombs or betterv still, call Namor himself a psycho for knowingly teaming up with the galactic death lover known as Thanos and the rest of the Cabal to go.....[I][B]Kill worlds.[/B][/I][/SIZE]
[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/amfqrp.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1678804]Are you saying that Dr Spectrum is a psycopath?[/QUOTE]
Unless Atlanteans have personal teleporting devices....
[img]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/b25lkyivcdtbmfch0gev.png[/img]
Yes. Psychopaths.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1678817]Unless Atlanteans have personal teleporting devices....
[img]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/b25lkyivcdtbmfch0gev.png[/img]
Yes. Psychopaths.[/QUOTE]
I'd respect their actions more if I honestly thought it would achieve the goals they're setting out. But I honestly don't.
Historically Atlantis is MORE of a threat to the surface world without Namor. They're a warrior race that just had their home and their king ended... I think any sort of assumption on the Squadrons part that Atlantis will just sleek off never to be heard from again is a little naive. Considering at the time Atlantis was just minding its own business, I frankly think the Squadron only suceeded in making things more volative and dangerous.
And essentially that's why the other heroes will ikely view the Squadron as a threat that needs to be stopped. I'll wager even T'Challa, who has all the reason in the world to not give a damn about Atlantis, will want these psychopaths contained before they make things any worse.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1678817]Unless Atlanteans have personal teleporting devices....
Yes. Psychopaths.[/QUOTE]
[B]
Well if that's the case, Dr Spectrum learnt from the best....[/B]
[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/euq2wy.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/2mq9h86.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/15ckl15.jpg[/IMG]
Psychopath seems to be the new (and quite selective) buzzword at the moment in relation to the Squadron Supreme.
Funny how that didn't seem to be the case when Namor flooded Wakanda during AvX or when he admitted to misdirecting Proxima Midnight towards T'Challa's homeworld.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1678861][B]
Well if that's the case, Dr Spectrum learnt from the best....[/B][/quote]
I guess I missed the part where Strange slaughtered civilians for no real gain.
Namor being killed? Sure, I can see reasoning.
Killing civilians? Still waiting on a justification for that.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1678892]I guess I missed the part where Strange slaughtered civilians for no real gain.
Namor being killed? Sure, I can see reasoning.
Killing civilians? Still waiting on a justification for that.[/QUOTE]
Well you obviously missed the part where Namor slaughtered Wakandan civilians via genocidal flood and eager Atlantean army during AvX so at this point, it's all semantics.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1678901]Well you obviously missed the part where Namor slaughtered Wakandan civilians via genocidal flood and eager Atlantean army during AvX so at this point, it's all semantics.[/QUOTE]
Don't put thoughts into my head. I never justified what Namor did during AvX or TRO. He acted like a sociopath.
I didn't miss ****, Keep changing the goal posts though. Can you justify the slaughtering of Atlanteans? Did little suzie atlantean have anything to do with Namor going full psycho in AvX, Infinity, TRO? Just because Namor is a psychopath doesn't mean the SS aren't.