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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3753802]Hey Marvell. I understand your points and that is horrible people would purposefully go out of their way to troll fans here. And I remember all of what mentioned in relation to her forum. For the record, I cant speak to the older BP books because I havent read them. I personally like the story Coates is telling, specifically in regards to Tchalla interaction with Ororo. I also think it's fair if people dont like what Coates has done with tchalla but how some choose to discuss their frustration it does at times read like hating versus criticism. But who am I to talk I was doing the same thing in regards to Guggenhein as it relates to his writings of xmen.[/QUOTE]
Which is all the more reason why I find your criticism of of some BP readers negative reactions to Coates quite baffling and hypocritical to be quite Frank.
You have (by your own admission) very little (if any) indepth knowledge of T'challa and his mythos prior to Coates yet, see fit to describe those who do have said relevant knowledge, as being "haters" for stating exactly what it is about Coates approach to writing the titular character and his supposedly "solo" book that they take offence to.
I personally have never stated that I have any personal animosity to the writer concerned so where you're getting this "hating on Coates" vibe from is beyond me.
Any writer who drags the BP mythos into the proverbial gutter is open to being criticised irrespective of race, ethnicity, gender or religious/sexual orientation.
You like what Coates is doing for the primary fact that he writes Storm a damn sight better than is the case in any of the X-books and that's good enough for you.
The fact that this writer has done nothing other than dumb T'challa down and write Wakanda as a Boko Haram inflected nation is of no consequence to you just as long as Coates gets Storm's voice "right" in somebody else's solo book.
Coates himself, admitted to having close to ZERO knowledge of the BP character and attendant mythos and this lack has been made abundantly evident in the BP stories his written to date.
The fact that he writes everyone other than T'challa well shows him up all the more for wilful ignorance and a very clear agenda that's anything but supportive of T'challa and his rich mythos.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3753821]who is diminishing tchalla and his abilities though? if you are referencing the points I made about adversary I would argue the opposite was being done. saying tchalla can beat adversary, because he beat logos and mephisto, I dont think is giving the proper respect to adversary's achievements. it works both ways and being aware of the context as to how tchalla was able to win in those instances isnt diminishing his achievements; it's being respectful of them.[/QUOTE]
Come at me when you gain comprehensive knowledge of T'Challa's abilities through actually reading his pre-Coates back history.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3754122]Come at me when you gain comprehensive knowledge of T'Challa's abilities through actually reading his pre-Coates back history.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't waste your breath, Brother Maj. As long as Coates writes "the one true goddess of the X-Men" well, he's not going to care. He'll treat this half-baked Star Wars fanfic as the best thing since Kirby, and keep posting the same half-dozen pages like it's all that matters.
(And don't think I noticed his attempt to downplay movie!Nakia by posting pics of Yzma!Malice... )
Anyway, "comprehensive" knowledge isn't necessary. But casual knowledge of just why the character became popular in the first place (hint: It wasn't his girlfriend... back then it was Monica Lynne anyway) might help. :D
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You can criticize and discuss stuff you like as well.
I've criticized Priest's run for numerous things, despite it containing some of my favorite arcs/stories of all time.
Season 3, so far, has outstanding art, cool action... but the plot is incredibly thin at this point and is incredibly decompressed.
Mystery comics are HARD. The reveal has to match the build-up. And so far, we have two issues of pure build-up without having any freaking clue what is happening. Like at all. We know nothing except empire bad, freed slaves good, T'challa is a prodigy, Killmonger's suit is sicknasty.
We don't even know what universe this is in... which may be by design since alternate reality comics sometimes sell like shit.
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[B] Honestly, BP & Crew summed up everything you need to know about what Coates thinks of Tchalla.
He has a slow burn to introduce Every Character and each issue is their "Solo" issue. Everyone gets to shine. Showing them kick butt and whatever. Tchalla doesn't show up till the very end of issue 2 and for his solo issue he: follows storm around like a puppy, talks about how he had the IG and was too afraid to fix his marriage. Gets talked down to by some random old lady, randomly asks Storm if she likes his new Luke Charles identity to which she says essentially i got got time for this, then sings some stupid r&b song... So when every other character gets an action sequence and Looks badass. Tchalla? Nothing.. That spoke volumes of his mindset. Tchalla and his mythos is simply the vehicle in which to push his agenda.
It's hard to write a character well if you don't like then or what they Stand for [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3753799][B]Yeah I saw that as soon as he appeared.. it just didn't work though. They should of been regular but remained the same color. Otherwise the habit looks great.
[Spoil] though I'm guessing he is fused with a symbiote to get him an extra boost given how his habit wrecked that dude,[/spoil][/B][/QUOTE]
[Spoil] If it is indeed a symbiote, like the one Venom has (and it appears to be given what we saw), then marvel for whatever reason pretty much always draws symbiotes to have big Spider-Man like eyes. All symbiotes seem to have elements of Spider-Mans costume for some reason... doesn't make any sense, but that's just how marvel decided to have them look. If nothing else, I suppose it makes him look more evil or whatever. [/spoil][/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3754321][B] Honestly, BP & Crew summed up everything you need to know about what Coates thinks of Tchalla.
He has a slow burn to introduce Every Character and each issue is their "Solo" issue. Everyone gets to shine. Showing them kick butt and whatever. Tchalla doesn't show up till the very end of issue 2 and for his solo issue he: follows storm around like a puppy, talks about how he had the IG and was too afraid to fix his marriage. Gets talked down to by some random old lady, randomly asks Storm if she likes his new Luke Charles identity to which she says essentially i got got time for this, then sings some stupid r&b song... So when every other character gets an action sequence and Looks badass. Tchalla? Nothing.. That spoke volumes of his mindset. Tchalla and his mythos is simply the vehicle in which to push his agenda.
It's hard to write a character well if you don't like then or what they Stand for [/B][/QUOTE]
Another concerning thing about Misty and the Crew is that it was also a mystery book.
And the "reveal" was terrible.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3754405][Spoil] If it is indeed a symbiote, like the one Venom has (and it appears to be given what we saw), then marvel for whatever reason pretty much always draws symbiotes to have big Spider-Man like eyes. All symbiotes seem to have elements of Spider-Mans costume for some reason... doesn't make any sense, but that's just how marvel decided to have them look. If nothing else, I suppose it makes him look more evil or whatever. [/spoil][/B][/QUOTE]
[B]I felt it made him look more cartoon like and took away from evil vibe. Had they been smaller he would of looked more threatening[/B]
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At the Saturn Awards last night, Black Panther won:
[B]Best Comic to Motion Picture Release [/B](over Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, Logan, Spider-Man: Homecoming, Thor: Ragnarok, and Wonder Woman)
[B] Best Director[/B] (over Guillermo Delgado Toro for The Shape of Water (which is huge, since GDT won the oscar), Patty Jenkins for Wonder Woman, Rian Johnson for The Last Jedi, Jordan Peele for Get Out, Matt Reeves for War for the Planet of the Apes, and Denis Villeneuve for Bladerunner 2049)
[B]Best Supporting Actress - Danai Gurira[/B] (over Ana de Armos in Bladerunner 2049, Carrie Fisher in The Last Jedi, Lois Smith in Marjorie Prime, Tessa Thompson in Thor: Ragnarok, Octavia Spencer in The Shape of Water, and Kelly Marie Tran in The Last Jedi)
[B]Best Priduction Design[/B] (over Beauty and the Beast, Bladerunner 2049, The Last Jedi, The Shape of Water, and Valerian)
[B]Best Makeup[/B] (over Bladerunner 2049, Wonder, Guardians 2, IT, The Last Jedi, and The Shape of Water)
It lost:
Best Writing to The Last Jedi
Best Actor to Mark Hamill in The Last Jedi (Chadwick was nominated)
Best Actress to Gal Gadot in Wonder Woman (Lupita was nominated)
Best Supporting Actor to Patrick Stewart in Logan (Michael B. Jordan was nominated)
Best Performance By a Younger Actor to Tom Holland in Spider-man: Homecoming (Letitia Wright was nominated)
Best Editing to The Last Jedi
Best Music to Coco
Best Costume Design to Beauty and the Beast (this loss is the only one I personally hate, bc I thought BatB's costumes were relatively atrocious)
Best Special Effects to Guardians 2
On the film side, BP came away with the most awards at 5.
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[QUOTE=robreedwrites;3754521]
It lost:
Best Writing to The Last Jedi[/quote]
.... LOL
[quote]
Best Actor to Mark Hamill in The Last Jedi (Chadwick was nominated)[/quote]
... LOL
[quote]
Best Actress to Gal Gadot in Wonder Woman (Lupita was nominated)
Best Supporting Actor to Patrick Stewart in Logan (Michael B. Jordan was nominated)
Best Performance By a Younger Actor to Tom Holland in Spider-man: Homecoming (Letitia Wright was nominated)[/quote]
I'll allow it
[quote]
Best Editing to The Last Jedi[/quote]
is this the movie with the random side plot that ended up being a whole lot of nothing in the middle of the movie or...?
[quote]
Best Music to Coco
Best Costume Design to Beauty and the Beast (this loss is the only one I personally hate, bc I thought BatB's costumes were relatively atrocious)[/quote]
I haven't seen CoCo but I find this HARD to believe music wise.
But losing best costume design... I honestly can't believe that. Just can't.
[quote]
Best Special Effects to Guardians 2[/QUOTE]
Ego was ON POINT
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3754122]Come at me when you gain comprehensive knowledge of T'Challa's abilities through actually reading his pre-Coates back history.[/QUOTE]
Why so combative? Come at you as it pertains to what? But to humor your request I have read pre-Coates Tchalla, which you should be aware because we have had lengthy discussions in the past as it relates to him and ororo. That said, I've read most of hudlin's run, as well as a few priests story. so now what's your concern?
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3754118]Which is all the more reason why I find your criticism of of some BP readers negative reactions to Coates quite baffling and hypocritical to be quite Frank.
You have (by your own admission) very little (if any) indepth knowledge of T'challa and his mythos prior to Coates yet, see fit to describe those who do have said relevant knowledge, as being "haters" for stating exactly what it is about Coates approach to writing the titular character and his supposedly "solo" book that they take offence to.
I personally have never stated that I have any personal animosity to the writer concerned so where you're getting this "hating on Coates" vibe from is beyond me.
Any writer who drags the BP mythos into the proverbial gutter is open to being criticised irrespective of race, ethnicity, gender or religious/sexual orientation.
You like what Coates is doing for the primary fact that he writes Storm a damn sight better than is the case in any of the X-books and that's good enough for you.
The fact that this writer has done nothing other than dumb T'challa down and write Wakanda as a Boko Haram inflected nation is of no consequence to you just as long as Coates gets Storm's voice "right" in somebody else's solo book.
Coates himself, admitted to having close to ZERO knowledge of the BP character and attendant mythos and this lack has been made abundantly evident in the BP stories his written to date.
The fact that he writes everyone other than T'challa well shows him up all the more for wilful ignorance and a very clear agenda that's anything but supportive of T'challa and his rich mythos.[/QUOTE]
Well I think your understanding of what I knew of tchalla is incorrect. I'm a bit shocked that you of all people are trying to limit my knowledge to just Coates when you and I have personally engaged in conversation about Hudlin's work as it pertains to tchalla. Have you forgotten?
That said, what I admitted was that I am more read up on stories that include Storm. This would include much of Hudlin's run when they were married, Doomwar, Hells Kitchen, and a few stories post annulment where storm appeared. Specifically as it related to the advesrary conversation I admitted I had not read priests stories but after some posters here mentioned logos and mephisto I took it upon myself to read this particular stories and what I learned is that some posters here were conveniently leaving out the context as to HOW he won in those instances. People criticize Coates because he built a team of people to help him defeat adversary but if you look at the praise priest received, the truth is he wrote tchalla requiring help to defeat mephisto as well. Logos, though not written by priest, required tchalla needing help there too. So why the double standard? This is why it comes off as hating because what was good for priest isnt good when it applies to coates.
Where did I call out any poster specifically when I agreed with the poster who brought this hating comment up? I stated that it comes off to me as hating when I see people calling him chokes or whatever but I never mentioned you or anyone specifically so why are you taking this so personally? What is the saying, a hit dog will holler?
Not that I have to but becusse I think I need to clear the confusion here, I initially came to liking Coates for what he has done for Ororo as well as what he did in repairing the interaction between ororo and tchalla. However, when I read the entirety of the first coates book I came to like his work based upon his ability to tell stories and weave them together. His stories have depth and meat to them and when I read his works I'm engaged because he puts a lot of effort into them. They also have an element of realism to me. These things i appreciate. So your assumptions about why I like coates are grossly inaccurate.
Coates ignorance about tchalla I think for fans of the character is valid in offering criticism. But let me make it clear what comes off to me as hating, well maybe not hating but hypocritical, is the continued tendency to make Tchalla this unbeatable character even when him winning ignores other characters' mythos. Posters, like yourself, want people to acknowledge all the great things that tchalla has done (which is fine) but in doing so you want to diminish the abilities of other characters. For instance, you are fine with Tchalla being able to put nanites in the sky to strip ororo of her powers even though that never should have worked when you look at how her powers function. Or you argue adversary being put in a metal box can defeat him when if you understand his power you would know that wouldnt work. As long as Tchalla comes out on top despite how it spits in the face of other characters established mythos you are happy because tchalla is a boss. That's the actual hypocrisy here but because I call you out on this, my opinion is not supposed to matter because I'm not a fan enough? Or I'm an unfan or whatever the new terms posters here attempt to shame readers who dont think like they do. Oh stop it. When you have people crediting ororo's eyes to bast there is a lot of ignorance going all around here. The difference is between others posters and myself, which you dont give me credit for, is that I go and do read so that I am empowered as a reader. This is how i was able to intelligently argue the feats as it relates to mephisto and logos. All in all, I guess I will always be a hypocrite to you and others because I'm gonna call bull whenever I see posters lowball other characters or ignore canon when it unfairly favors tchalla. I think tchalla is an awesome character but even with his tech and abilities he is still a man; him needing help at times doesn't diminish him or make him less of an awesome character in my eyes at least.
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[QUOTE=robreedwrites;3754521]At the Saturn Awards last night, Black Panther won:
[B]Best Comic to Motion Picture Release [/B](over Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, Logan, Spider-Man: Homecoming, Thor: Ragnarok, and Wonder Woman)
[B] Best Director[/B] (over Guillermo Delgado Toro for The Shape of Water (which is huge, since GDT won the oscar), Patty Jenkins for Wonder Woman, Rian Johnson for The Last Jedi, Jordan Peele for Get Out, Matt Reeves for War for the Planet of the Apes, and Denis Villeneuve for Bladerunner 2049)
[B]Best Supporting Actress - Danai Gurira[/B] (over Ana de Armos in Bladerunner 2049, Carrie Fisher in The Last Jedi, Lois Smith in Marjorie Prime, Tessa Thompson in Thor: Ragnarok, Octavia Spencer in The Shape of Water, and Kelly Marie Tran in The Last Jedi)
[B]Best Priduction Design[/B] (over Beauty and the Beast, Bladerunner 2049, The Last Jedi, The Shape of Water, and Valerian)
[B]Best Makeup[/B] (over Bladerunner 2049, Wonder, Guardians 2, IT, The Last Jedi, and The Shape of Water)
It lost:
Best Writing to The Last Jedi
Best Actor to Mark Hamill in The Last Jedi (Chadwick was nominated)
Best Actress to Gal Gadot in Wonder Woman (Lupita was nominated)
Best Supporting Actor to Patrick Stewart in Logan (Michael B. Jordan was nominated)
Best Performance By a Younger Actor to Tom Holland in Spider-man: Homecoming (Letitia Wright was nominated)
Best Editing to The Last Jedi
Best Music to Coco
Best Costume Design to Beauty and the Beast (this loss is the only one I personally hate, bc I thought BatB's costumes were relatively atrocious)
Best Special Effects to Guardians 2
On the film side, BP came away with the most awards at 5.[/QUOTE]
Most of those I am fine with, but I'm a little surprised BP lost costume and music. Though they had those categories in the bag.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3754587]Most of those I am fine with, but I'm a little surprised they BP costume and music. Though they had those categories in the bag.[/QUOTE]
Advantage for BP in the major awards is that most go by calendar year for their eligibility period, so Coco and Beauty and the Beast are already done. And, as with all awards, nepotism is a big factor. Jacqueline Duran is a multiple Academy Award winner in costume design and Michael Giacchino is very well-liked.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3754577]Why so combative? Come at you as it pertains to what? But to humor your request I have read pre-Coates Tchalla, which you should be aware because we have had lengthy discussions in the past as it relates to him and ororo. That said, I've read most of hudlin's run, as well as a few priests story. so now what's your concern?
Well I think your understanding of what I knew of tchalla is incorrect. I'm a bit shocked that you of all people are trying to limit my knowledge to just Coates when you and I have personally engaged in conversation about Hudlin's work as it pertains to tchalla. Have you forgotten?
That said, what I admitted was that I am more read up on stories that include Storm. This would include much of Hudlin's run when they were married, Doomwar, Hells Kitchen, and a few stories post annulment where storm appeared. Specifically as it related to the advesrary conversation I admitted I had not read priests stories but after some posters here mentioned logos and mephisto I took it upon myself to read this particular stories and what I learned is that some posters here were conveniently leaving out the context as to HOW he won in those instances. People criticize Coates because he built a team of people to help him defeat adversary but if you look at the praise priest received, the truth is he wrote tchalla requiring help to defeat mephisto as well. Logos, though not written by priest, required tchalla needing help there too. So why the double standard? This is why it comes off as hating because what was good for priest isnt good when it applies to coates.
Where did I call out any poster specifically when I agreed with the poster who brought this hating comment up? I stated that it comes off to me as hating when I see people calling him chokes or whatever but I never mentioned you or anyone specifically so why are you taking this so personally? What is the saying, a hit dog will holler?
Not that I have to but becusse I think I need to clear the confusion here, I initially came to liking Coates for what he has done for Ororo as well as what he did in repairing the interaction between ororo and tchalla. However, when I read the entirety of the first coates book I came to like his work based upon his ability to tell stories and weave them together. His stories have depth and meat to them and when I read his works I'm engaged because he puts a lot of effort into them. They also have an element of realism to me. These things i appreciate. So your assumptions about why I like coates are grossly inaccurate.
Coates ignorance about tchalla I think for fans of the character is valid in offering criticism. But let me make it clear what comes off to me as hating, well maybe not hating but hypocritical, is the continued tendency to make Tchalla this unbeatable character even when him winning ignores other characters' mythos. Posters, like yourself, want people to acknowledge all the great things that tchalla has done (which is fine) but in doing so you want to diminish the abilities of other characters. For instance, you are fine with Tchalla being able to put nanites in the sky to strip ororo of her powers even though that never should have worked when you look at how her powers function. Or you argue adversary being put in a metal box can defeat him when if you understand his power you would know that wouldnt work. As long as Tchalla comes out on top despite how it spits in the face of other characters established mythos you are happy because tchalla is a boss. That's the actual hypocrisy here but because I call you out on this, my opinion is not supposed to matter because I'm not a fan enough? Or I'm an unfan or whatever the new terms posters here attempt to shame readers who dont think like they do. Oh stop it. When you have people crediting ororo's eyes to bast there is a lot of ignorance going all around here. The difference is between others posters and myself, which you dont give me credit for, is that I go and do read so that I am empowered as a reader. This is how i was able to intelligently argue the feats as it relates to mephisto and logos. All in all, I guess I will always be a hypocrite to you and others because I'm gonna call bull whenever I see posters lowball other characters or ignore canon when it unfairly favors tchalla. I think tchalla is an awesome character but even with his tech and abilities he is still a man; him needing help at times doesn't diminish him or make him less of an awesome character in my eyes at least.[/QUOTE]
Will respond in more detail when I get home.
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I read a friend's copy of issue two...flitted through the pages, actually. It seemed like one overly long chase scene with no real dialogue except for clueless people asking Who? What? How? and some paint by numbers bad-guy. As for the art...I sill detest Acuna's style, even more so with the muddy "special effects". This was a complete waste of five minutes, really. I'll know better next time.
In more important and relevant news:
I'm actually shocked by the Film losing out in the Best Costuming and Music categories. BatB was beauty-full and well done but it wasn't anything we hadn't seen before in other movies set in a similar era so...not truly new and innovative. Coco's music was jus' a'aight (I was pissed that it won for best original song at the Oscars) ...again, nothing new and interesting that incited "Must Have" emotions.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3754919]Will respond in more detail when I get home.[/QUOTE]
cool beans!
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Awards shows mean nothing.
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[QUOTE=blacksonic;3755047]Awards shows mean nothing.[/QUOTE]
Not to some folks, but they absolutely do help with branding and marketability of the people who are nominated and/or win them. Jared Leto would not be in talks to play Morbius in a solo film if he hadn't won that Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club. It would be a huge boost to Ludwig Goransson's career if his score gets nominated for a big award as it gets him more coverage. People in the industry will seek out his score regardless of whether or not they saw the film if it gets nominated.
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[QUOTE=robreedwrites;3755076]Not to some folks, but they absolutely do help with branding and marketability of the people who are nominated and/or win them. Jared Leto would not be in talks to play Morbius in a solo film if he hadn't won that Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club. It would be a huge boost to Ludwig Goransson's career if his score gets nominated for a big award as it gets him more coverage. People in the industry will seek out his score regardless of whether or not they saw the film if it gets nominated.[/QUOTE]
It is doubly important for the makers of Black Panther, considering how many of them behind the scenes were POC, who are under represented in holly
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Didn't Coates say in an interview that he was happy people were excited about the movie, but he also wanted people to read his fresh start comic to get more realism? If I'm remembering that correctly, I find it funny based on how Star Warsian the comic is, combined with movie elements. lol
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3754577]Why so combative? Come at you as it pertains to what? But to humor your request I have read pre-Coates Tchalla, which you should be aware because we have had lengthy discussions in the past as it relates to him and ororo. That said, I've read most of hudlin's run, as well as a few priests story. so now what's your concern?
Well I think your understanding of what I knew of tchalla is incorrect. I'm a bit shocked that you of all people are trying to limit my knowledge to just Coates when you and I have personally engaged in conversation about Hudlin's work as it pertains to tchalla. Have you forgotten?
That said, what I admitted was that I am more read up on stories that include Storm. This would include much of Hudlin's run when they were married, Doomwar, Hells Kitchen, and a few stories post annulment where storm appeared. Specifically as it related to the advesrary conversation I admitted I had not read priests stories but after some posters here mentioned logos and mephisto I took it upon myself to read this particular stories and what I learned is that some posters here were conveniently leaving out the context as to HOW he won in those instances. People criticize Coates because he built a team of people to help him defeat adversary but if you look at the praise priest received, the truth is he wrote tchalla requiring help to defeat mephisto as well. Logos, though not written by priest, required tchalla needing help there too. So why the double standard? This is why it comes off as hating because what was good for priest isnt good when it applies to coates.
Where did I call out any poster specifically when I agreed with the poster who brought this hating comment up? I stated that it comes off to me as hating when I see people calling him chokes or whatever but I never mentioned you or anyone specifically so why are you taking this so personally? What is the saying, a hit dog will holler?
Not that I have to but becusse I think I need to clear the confusion here, I initially came to liking Coates for what he has done for Ororo as well as what he did in repairing the interaction between ororo and tchalla. However, when I read the entirety of the first coates book I came to like his work based upon his ability to tell stories and weave them together. His stories have depth and meat to them and when I read his works I'm engaged because he puts a lot of effort into them. They also have an element of realism to me. These things i appreciate. So your assumptions about why I like coates are grossly inaccurate.
Coates ignorance about tchalla I think for fans of the character is valid in offering criticism. But let me make it clear what comes off to me as hating, well maybe not hating but hypocritical, is the continued tendency to make Tchalla this unbeatable character even when him winning ignores other characters' mythos. Posters, like yourself, want people to acknowledge all the great things that tchalla has done (which is fine) but in doing so you want to diminish the abilities of other characters. For instance, you are fine with Tchalla being able to put nanites in the sky to strip ororo of her powers even though that never should have worked when you look at how her powers function. Or you argue adversary being put in a metal box can defeat him when if you understand his power you would know that wouldnt work. As long as Tchalla comes out on top despite how it spits in the face of other characters established mythos you are happy because tchalla is a boss. That's the actual hypocrisy here but because I call you out on this, my opinion is not supposed to matter because I'm not a fan enough? Or I'm an unfan or whatever the new terms posters here attempt to shame readers who dont think like they do. Oh stop it. When you have people crediting ororo's eyes to bast there is a lot of ignorance going all around here. The difference is between others posters and myself, which you dont give me credit for, is that I go and do read so that I am empowered as a reader. This is how i was able to intelligently argue the feats as it relates to mephisto and logos. All in all, I guess I will always be a hypocrite to you and others because I'm gonna call bull whenever I see posters lowball other characters or ignore canon when it unfairly favors tchalla. I think tchalla is an awesome character but even with his tech and abilities he is still a man; him needing help at times doesn't diminish him or make him less of an awesome character in my eyes at least.[/QUOTE]
[B]Just going to say this. No one ever said Tchalla beat Mephisto or logos without any help. It was the fact that he did the heavy lifting, and actually outsmarted Mephisto, yes his random redshirts disrupted his frequency but T'Challa did the knock out blow, tricked him into taking his soul and being overwhelmed by the bps whole simultaneously taking away Achebes power. As for Logos Tchalla defeated the tiger god and took his power. At no point did anyone say he did it all without any help.
The Issue with Storm is that she got the big feat and it's not her book to take the big feats[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3755161][B]Just going to say this. No one ever said Tchalla beat Mephisto or logos without any help. It was the fact that he did the heavy lifting, and actually outsmarted Mephisto, yes his random redshirts disrupted his frequency but T'Challa did the knock out blow, tricked him into taking his soul and being overwhelmed by the bps whole simultaneously taking away Achebes power. As for Logos Tchalla defeated the tiger god and took his power. At no point did anyone say he did it all without any help.
The Issue with Storm is that she got the big feat and it's not her book to take the big feats[/B][/QUOTE]
If people cannot tell the difference story telling wise of the Mephisto, Logos, and Coates S2 stories, then, what can you do lol? If people are goign to be willingly obtuse about it, then what is the point?
It isn't "A beat B, A beat C, so A can't beat D!" It is about reading the dang story! The narrative of the story. How the characters are acting within the story. You can't even read just there fight, you need to read The Client all the way through.
Reading images isn't the same thing as reading the damn story.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3754577]Why so combative? Come at you as it pertains to what? But to humor your request I have read pre-Coates Tchalla, which you should be aware because we have had lengthy discussions in the past as it relates to him and ororo. That said, I've read most of hudlin's run, as well as a few priests story. so now what's your concern?
Well I think your understanding of what I knew of tchalla is incorrect. I'm a bit shocked that you of all people are trying to limit my knowledge to just Coates when you and I have personally engaged in conversation about Hudlin's work as it pertains to tchalla. Have you forgotten?
That said, what I admitted was that I am more read up on stories that include Storm. This would include much of Hudlin's run when they were married, Doomwar, Hells Kitchen, and a few stories post annulment where storm appeared. Specifically as it related to the advesrary conversation I admitted I had not read priests stories but after some posters here mentioned logos and mephisto I took it upon myself to read this particular stories and what I learned is that some posters here were conveniently leaving out the context as to HOW he won in those instances. People criticize Coates because he built a team of people to help him defeat adversary but if you look at the praise priest received, the truth is he wrote tchalla requiring help to defeat mephisto as well. Logos, though not written by priest, required tchalla needing help there too. So why the double standard? This is why it comes off as hating because what was good for priest isnt good when it applies to coates.
Where did I call out any poster specifically when I agreed with the poster who brought this hating comment up? I stated that it comes off to me as hating when I see people calling him chokes or whatever but I never mentioned you or anyone specifically so why are you taking this so personally? What is the saying, a hit dog will holler?
Not that I have to but becusse I think I need to clear the confusion here, I initially came to liking Coates for what he has done for Ororo as well as what he did in repairing the interaction between ororo and tchalla. However, when I read the entirety of the first coates book I came to like his work based upon his ability to tell stories and weave them together. His stories have depth and meat to them and when I read his works I'm engaged because he puts a lot of effort into them. They also have an element of realism to me. These things i appreciate. So your assumptions about why I like coates are grossly inaccurate.
Coates ignorance about tchalla I think for fans of the character is valid in offering criticism. But let me make it clear what comes off to me as hating, well maybe not hating but hypocritical, is the continued tendency to make Tchalla this unbeatable character even when him winning ignores other characters' mythos. Posters, like yourself, want people to acknowledge all the great things that tchalla has done (which is fine) but in doing so you want to diminish the abilities of other characters. For instance, you are fine with Tchalla being able to put nanites in the sky to strip ororo of her powers even though that never should have worked when you look at how her powers function. Or you argue adversary being put in a metal box can defeat him when if you understand his power you would know that wouldnt work. As long as Tchalla comes out on top despite how it spits in the face of other characters established mythos you are happy because tchalla is a boss. That's the actual hypocrisy here but because I call you out on this, my opinion is not supposed to matter because I'm not a fan enough? Or I'm an unfan or whatever the new terms posters here attempt to shame readers who dont think like they do. Oh stop it. When you have people crediting ororo's eyes to bast there is a lot of ignorance going all around here. The difference is between others posters and myself, which you dont give me credit for, is that I go and do read so that I am empowered as a reader. This is how i was able to intelligently argue the feats as it relates to mephisto and logos. All in all, I guess I will always be a hypocrite to you and others because I'm gonna call bull whenever I see posters lowball other characters or ignore canon when it unfairly favors tchalla. I think tchalla is an awesome character but even with his tech and abilities he is still a man; him needing help at times doesn't diminish him or make him less of an awesome character in my eyes at least.[/QUOTE]
I like to call Coates chokes. But I've never hated on you or anyone who likes his work. I will defendappreciating T'Challa once in a while, however. And wasn't it just last week or so you stated you had never read The Client? And so could only comment on him beating Mephisto with scans?
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The Nakia Appreciation Thread Merge Alert...
She doesn't look ugly at all... :cool:
[video=youtube;LhW2EKDtOWI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhW2EKDtOWI[/video]
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[QUOTE=blacksonic;3755047]Awards shows mean nothing.[/QUOTE]
Yes they do. You just have to know what awards to get nominate and even win. Especially if you are POC.
Folks pay attention when they see EMMY, OSCAR, GOLDEN GLOBE and so on under your name be it nomination or win.
That Emmy nomination for Roots kept Levar Burton employed and helped get Reading Rainbow started when jobs started to dry up.
Whoopi would not be where she is if it wasn't for her being on e of the FEW people to win an Oscar, Emmy, Tony & Grammy. She was the HIGHEST paid actress in Hollywood in the 90s. Now think who was around at that time-she making more than some men.
Donald Glover don't think those Writer Guild Awards for 3 straight years as a writer for 30 Rock-hasn't helped Donald. Or the Emmy nominations folks got for the episode where he was in charge.
Those awards have power. Mr Coates-no matter what we think of him-his awards ALONE got this book into places where others couldn't go.
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This is like one of those throwback RnB love songs videos from the 80's or 90's... :cool:
Not Ugly at all...
[video=youtube;2P3qjOwdcYI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P3qjOwdcYI[/video]
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Let's ignore the fact that Disney still has not created a Royal Talon Fighter toy for me to play in the sandbox but I forgive them...
At least this doll is not ugly... :D
[video=youtube;qTuOB1icIDM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTuOB1icIDM[/video]
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Should I be wearing 3D glasses while watching this...
I'm no expert but I think this is the opposite of ugly just saying... ;)
[video=youtube;rWYfPhHAbvw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWYfPhHAbvw[/video]
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Baseball Card Stats...
[url]http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Nakia[/url]
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3755242]I like to call Coates chokes. But I've never hated on you or anyone who likes his work. I will defendappreciating T'Challa once in a while, however. And wasn't it just last week or so you stated you had never read The Client? And so could only comment on him beating Mephisto with scans?[/QUOTE]
yup I only responded to mephisto and the comments about hating was not about hating on me but on.coates.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3755161][B]Just going to say this. No one ever said Tchalla beat Mephisto or logos without any help. It was the fact that he did the heavy lifting, and actually outsmarted Mephisto, yes his random redshirts disrupted his frequency but T'Challa did the knock out blow, tricked him into taking his soul and being overwhelmed by the bps whole simultaneously taking away Achebes power. As for Logos Tchalla defeated the tiger god and took his power. At no point did anyone say he did it all without any help.
The Issue with Storm is that she got the big feat and it's not her book to take the big feats[/B][/QUOTE]
so the real issue here is feats? see thing is when this conversation originally started posters implied he beat mephisto on his own there was no mention of the souls of black Panthers ancestors or the wakandan techs who were able to figure out mephisto realm frequency. it wasnt until I went and read these that I even understood the context of how he won. nevertheless, coates wrote tchalla as the brain who knew everything in regards to how to beat adversary. It was his strategy and ability to know all of the strengths of his allies that allowed his victory. I personally dont see the difference but it's ok to disagree. I'm just glad we now agree that tchalla didnt product these feats on his own.
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;3755300]Let's ignore the fact that Disney still has not created a Royal Talon Fighter toy for me to play in the sandbox but I forgive them...
At least this doll is not ugly... :D
[video=youtube;qTuOB1icIDM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTuOB1icIDM[/video][/QUOTE]
this is cute. did u read the recent wakanda forever spiderman issue? what were your thoughts on nakia and how she continues to betray wakanda and the dora?
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;3755289].[B]Those awards have power. Mr Coates-no matter what we think of him-his awards ALONE got this book into places where others couldn't go.[/B][/QUOTE]
Power for good and evil. His writing BP is a direct result of the awards he's won.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3755349]yup I only responded to mephisto and the comments about hating was not about hating on me but on.coates.
so the real issue here is feats? see thing is when this conversation originally started posters implied he beat mephisto on his own there was no mention of the souls of black Panthers ancestors or the wakandan techs who were able to figure out mephisto realm frequency. it wasnt until I went and read these that I even understood the context of how he won. nevertheless, coates wrote tchalla as the brain who knew everything in regards to how to beat adversary. It was his strategy and ability to know all of the strengths of his allies that allowed his victory. I personally dont see the difference but it's ok to disagree. I'm just glad we now agree that tchalla didnt product these feats on his own.[/QUOTE]
The Mephisto story was in the Client.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3755349]yup I only responded to mephisto and the comments about hating was not about hating on me but on.coates.
so the real issue here is feats? see thing is when this conversation originally started posters implied he beat mephisto on his own there was no mention of the souls of black Panthers ancestors or the wakandan techs who were able to figure out mephisto realm frequency. it wasnt until I went and read these that I even understood the context of how he won. nevertheless, coates wrote tchalla as the brain who knew everything in regards to how to beat adversary. It was his strategy and ability to know all of the strengths of his allies that allowed his victory. I personally dont see the difference but it's ok to disagree. I'm just glad we now agree that tchalla didnt product these feats on his own.[/QUOTE]
[B]It was explained how he did those things from the get go. And he DID do it on his own in the sense that he didn't delegate all the work to other's while he stood around barking orders. Both the mentioned feats he was hands on, and he did outsmart and beat Mephisto by his own merits same with logos. It's more splitting hairs then anything. [/B]
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;3755373]The Mephisto story was in the Client.[/QUOTE]
whatever issue 4 and 5 was I read. dont recall client.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3755386][B]It was explained how he did those things from the get go. And he DID do it on his own in the sense that he didn't delegate all the work to other's while he stood around barking orders. Both the mentioned feats he was hands on, and he did outsmart and beat Mephisto by his own merits same with logos. It's more splitting hairs then anything. [/B][/QUOTE]
he didnt do it on his own (you just admitted this).. he would not have been able to beat mephisto if not for his teams help when he encountered him on earth. he wouldn't have been able to get out of mephisto stealing his soul if not the fact his soul was tethered to his ancestors. logos defeat depended on the environment as much as it did tchalla. that plane logos and tchalla fought within operated on metaphors. logos was the law in that plane and tchalla is s king. being a king is greater than law. therefore his win revolved on that important fact. again context is important.
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Not a bad issue, at least the title character is a man of action again, hopefully he regains his sense of self quickly.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3753802]Hey Marvell. I understand your points and that is horrible people would purposefully go out of their way to troll fans here. And I remember all of what mentioned in relation to her forum. For the record, I cant speak to the older BP books because I havent read them. I personally like the story Coates is telling, specifically in regards to Tchalla interaction with Ororo. I also think it's fair if people dont like what Coates has done with tchalla but how some choose to discuss their frustration it does at times read like hating versus criticism. But who am I to talk I was doing the same thing in regards to Guggenhein as it relates to his writings of xmen.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]BK, ask yourself an honest question and give an honest answer.
Would you be reading Coates' BP if Storm wasn't in it?[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3755398][COLOR="#000080"]BK, ask yourself an honest question and give an honest answer.
Would you be reading Coates' BP if Storm wasn't in it?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
why does that matter in anything I posted? but to answer your question I probably would. I read all of world of wakanda and ororo didnt appear once.
and ororos presence in the current run is minimal at best and I'm reading it. I also read rotp.
I dont know why there is a need to prove yourself in this thread in regards to making a point relevant to tchalla. I'm a storm fan first and that shouldbt be a surprise. but this fact doesnt invalidate any of the things I've said.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3752313]To be a bit odd. [B]I don't know why there is a need to create a victim complex here[/B]. Frankly, most people last issue said it was fine/good too and praised the art. The ones that had problems with it gave reasons and discussed why.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Two posters before me clearly were lukewarm on it and I was the first to like it so that would make me in the minority
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butterflykiss I think that depiction of Nakia as a betrayer to Wakanda is sooooooo last year especially with what she accomplished in the movie!
Malice is a waste of time, resources and money unless you come up with a better reason for her on panel comic book behavior like she ate some bad kryptonite and is not herself!
The movie made money and yet the comic struggles off and on so I am of the belief that those working on it are allergic to money! :cool:
There is a business reason that successful grocery stores stock the items that people actually buy and that is to remain in business by retention not experiment and end up in going out of business sale mode!
As far as the Storm and T'challa's relationship goes it was fun back when Hudlin did it but it is now like a chore that sucks the energy from the franchise trying to prove something that was never really good for Black Panther intellectual property business going forward!
To not depict a beautiful Academy Award winning actress that virtually saved the day for a 1.3 billion dollar movie in her full glory on panel and instead do some "Ugly Betty" version just for laughs is the reason why so many of my peers out here in Hollywood are broke and out of work!
What artist is not even trying to draw or animate Nakia/Lupita because they know better than a 1.3 billion dollar movie already showed you worldwide!
I have run into Hudlin from time to time so if I ever meet Ta Nehisi Coates and have a talk with him I would ask him why he is not straight chasing the money with this franchise and give the people what they always wanted and then enjoy the praises they would heap on him!
Does he like being hated by diehard Black Panther fans and if so WHY???
What could possibly be on his mind "Storm Chasing" when that train left the station years ago and darker skinned blacks already put their money in the pot!
Smart business men stay in business by seeing trends, following those trends and then cashing out!
If he is paid up front, salary or on commission he should look at those 20,000+ a month sales and decide if he wants to be Woke enough to be a millionaire many times over by carrying this franchise to the Promised Land!
If I'm at those Marvel Summits going over strategies and events and I can't see how you don't ditch Plan A, Plan B and Plan C and just make it exactly like the movie and make money!
"Storm: "Come back to me!"
What is this Amateur Night At The Apollo? :cool: