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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3667993][B] we can take off the rose tinted glasses. The crying? it wasn't reasonable it made zero sense why he would cry in that situation, it was weak scene. Also in SW II he ended up broken at Dooms feet just like in Mayberrys doomwar. T'Challa had some good moments but each one was preceded by or followed after some bad bumbling moment[/B][/QUOTE]
How did the crying not make sense? T'Challa was essentially sentencing 2 entire universes to death because he was unable to compromise his beliefs and murder billions of people. His friends, family and loved ones were all going to die because he was unable to act. His father was screaming at him to save everyone and he couldn't do it. Anyone in that situation could crack in such an impossible situation.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3668002]the main complaint about Hickman's run and to do with Namor as it was hot off AvX. Not to mention how his run dragged on forever only to ultimately roll back time so none of the events actually happened[/QUOTE]
Breevort confirmed that all of it actually did happen though.
[url]http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com/post/139848760328/at-the-end-of-secret-wars-black-panther-used-the[/url]
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From Ture over at the HEF. Lowering expectations for anyone who thought this was going to be good for WK. lol. He started Coates; first reboot on one knee. lol
[img]http://previewsworld.com/SiteImage/CatalogImage/STL080322?type=1[/img]
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Stand up. You are a King.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3667852]You're taking quotes and everything that follows is a reach, because the quotes don't say anything that supports your argument. The crux of the argument is that BP is a mantle, which leaps to Shuri becoming BP.
This is just like people who think Lebron is going to the Lakers. "Omg he's got a house in LA." "Look he's in LA he must be going to the Lakers." same thing. The quotes you've presented are so plain jane and generic. You could spin it that way if you want but at this point its just spin.
the only thing that gives this idea legs is that it happened in the comics.[/QUOTE]
Hope you realize for me I don't draw anything from these interviews other than the [I]possibility[/I] of these things happening. (Nothing is confirmed)
And if they do get confirmed I don't believe they'll happen too quickly but these things [I]will[/I] eventually happen.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3668026]Stand up. You are a King.[/QUOTE]
Judging from the handcuffs, I'm not sure he has a choice in the matter.
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[QUOTE=SKJoker;3667973]Would you look at the time? Seems like it's half-past "you guys cried wolf on Hickman's run when he treated T'Challa like a beast."
Silly Doomwar stuff? Hickman wrote a Wakanda that was smart enough to avoid being crippled so easily. Only went down to all of Thanos's forces - and it all came back. Set up for success. T'Challa was a genius. Had feats. Had cool tech. Used the IG to fight Doom effectively, and even his loss was a win.
Ah... but he cried in a totally reasonable situation. But he didn't manage to kill Namor. Thus, garbage run. 0/10
And then, enter Coates. :([/QUOTE]
I was not a fan of T’Challa being willing to consult outsiders about the incursions (however capable they may be), while refusing to consult his people, especially when the first victims of the incursions crisis we see on panel were Wakandans.
On top of that, T’Challa was committing a treasonous act by harboring a man—Namor—that just killed thousands of his people on Wakandan soil, and doing it behind his people’s back while Wakanda was at war with Atlantis.
All this culminated to him (and most of the Illuminati members) pretending as if they were gonna do what they claimed they were going to do. Only Cap and Namor were honest about what lines they were willing to cross. The rest, T’Challa included, acted like phonies in the end. By the time the crying scene occurred, I lost a lot of sympathy for T’Challa at that point. He should’ve seen it coming from miles away.
Strictly as a story, Hickman’s run is well done. His portrayal of T’Challa, however, brought out the strongest reaction outta me compared to all the runs, Coates’ included.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3668012]Breevort confirmed that all of it actually did happen though.
[url]http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com/post/139848760328/at-the-end-of-secret-wars-black-panther-used-the[/url][/QUOTE]
He didn't read.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;3668043]I was not a fan of T’Challa being willing to consult outsiders about the incursions (however capable they may be), while refusing to consult his people, especially when the first victims of the incursions crisis we see on panel were Wakandans.
On top of that, T’Challa was committing a treasonous act by harboring a man—Namor—that just killed thousands of his people on Wakandan soul, and doing it behind his people’s back while his people are at war with Atlantis.
All this culminated to him (and most of the Illuminati members) pretending as if they were gonna do what they claimed they were going to do. Only Cap and Namor were honest about what they were willing to do. The rest, T’Challa included, acted like phonies in the end. By the time the crying scene occurred, I lost a lot of sympathy for T’Challa at that point. He should’ve seen it coming from miles away.
Strictly as a story, Hickman’s run is well done. His portrayal of T’Challa brought out the strongest reaction outta me compared to all the runs, Coates’ included.[/QUOTE]
That was one of the things which annoyed me about the Illuminati.. their inability to not see them being able to detonate the bomb a mile away. Later in Time Runs Out, they brag to Steve how they are so smart they are capable of predicting Steves actions with 90% probability or whatever... but they didn't bother using that intellect to bother asking whether or not they were actually willing to detonate the bombs they were busy building.
Though I guess that's why Namor was needed. He was their ace in the hole in case any of them got cold feet. T'Challa told his father they needed Namor... and he ended up being right.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3668055]That was one of the things which annoyed me about the Illuminati.. their inability to not see them being able to detonate the bomb a mile away. Later in Time Runs Out, they brag to Steve how they are so smart they are capable of predicting Steves actions with 90% probability or whatever... but they didn't bother using that intellect to bother asking whether or not they were actually willing to detonate the bombs they were busy building.
Though I guess that's why Namor was needed. He was their ace in the hole in case any of them got cold feet. T'Challa told his father they needed Namor... and he ended up being right.[/QUOTE]
I think the bigger problem was these so called super geniuses not putting any damn effort into actually investigating the causes of the incursions
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And look at that, my predictions of Chokes turning T’Challa into a slave were right. Ugh, why can’t this guy just write that fucking Storm solo he wants to write so damn badly and just leave us already?
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3668109]I think the bigger problem was these so called super geniuses not putting any damn effort into actually investigating the causes of the incursions[/QUOTE]
They sort of did that with Pym, though we didn't know about it until later.
At the time that was my biggest criticism of the Illuminati as well though. But in hindsight it sort of worked out for the best. Someone needed to focus on stopping the incursions, and they had that covered (until the Cabal took over) while Doom got to the root of the problem. Both bases needed to be covered.
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[QUOTE=robreedwrites;3667529]And I know plenty of people who are looking forward to T’Challa’s return. The idea that the twenty or so people who post in this thread are the only ones that want T’Challa to come back as Black Panther is asinine.[/QUOTE]
The idea that [I]this forum[/I] in any way represents a significant portion of the millions of people who saw the Black Panther film, and Infinity War, or that anyone can say with confidence what "most people" want next (based on their own personal experiences) is asinine.
Seriously.
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[QUOTE=N'Jadaka;3668034]Hope you realize for me I don't draw anything from these interviews other than the [I]possibility[/I] of these things happening. (Nothing is confirmed)
And if they do get confirmed I don't believe they'll happen too quickly but these things [I]will[/I] eventually happen.[/QUOTE]
Its possible in the sense anything is possible. Maybe upcoming film will add credence to that.
Imo it would have to be something different than they did in the 616. Her character is too different. The way they've established Wakanda and the other characters in it doesn't really allow her to be BP or Queen in a manor similar to T'Challa. I think Disney is aware of that.
If Marvel comes up with a strong story and it fits, I think they should pursue this plot point but only if they do. Shuri already has one of the most important roles in Wakanda, unlike her 616 counterpart. A BP Shuri would be very different from the MCU T'Challa version and the 616 Shuri version. Again Marvel will do what it will do, but imo they've set Shuri on a fresh path. I don't see her as BP or the Griot. As one of the foremost scientific minds in the world her potential is limitless.Outside of Tony Stark there's really only Shuri as the super genius of the MCU. Some will say Bruce Banner but outside of Whedon speak I haven't seen it.
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[QUOTE=Nate Grey;3666918]Or may not
Walk me through the logic of this. T'challa's fans will dwindle between Avengers 4, BP 2, Avengers 5, and BP 3 to the point passing the torch to someone else makes sense? She's the Q to his James Bond but never mind that apparently?
And why can't the two co-exist in their specific roles? What if she wants to be an ambassador of sorts with the outreach center as her base of operations? Why MUST it be Wakanda with her as queen and T'Challa just...gone or whatever people think will happen to him in part 3 to make this possible. Cause he's old? LOL Denzel's about to star in his first sequel to an action heavy movie at 63, I think his age is fine.
But again, walk me through the logic of this. *pulls up a chair, listens*[/QUOTE]
no one cares about this Q bull. Tchalla is his own Q. That's what makes the character better than some weak James Bond clone. T'challa first and foremost is a character of intelligence and creativity. That's his core. Not James freaking Bond.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;3667013]Why would you want to take away MCU Shuri's tech skills?
What's she supposed to do in the movies without them?
You can't make her a combat badass that's Okoye's thing.
[B]Without the Q gimmick Shuri's just an lovingly insolent wisecracker.[/B]
Put that in a movie and that just gets you darker Kat Dennings (without the rack on top of it.).[/QUOTE]
In the MCU...that's enough.
She can still kick but without being the "best" at it. See Thor and Tessa.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3667852]You're taking quotes and everything that follows is a reach, because the quotes don't say anything that supports your argument. The crux of the argument is that BP is a mantle, which leaps to Shuri becoming BP.
This is just like people who think Lebron is going to the Lakers. "Omg he's got a house in LA." "Look he's in LA he must be going to the Lakers." same thing. The quotes you've presented are so plain jane and generic. You could spin it that way if you want but at this point its just spin. [/QUOTE]
I also don't know how anyone thinks Avengers 4 isn't gonna involve time travel of some sort anyway. [SPOIL]It's pretty much confirmed via set pics and casting info that there's gonna be some sort of time skip and then the heroes trying to travel back in time to stop Thanos.[/SPOIL].
It's entirely possible (nay, likely) we will see Shuri as the ruler of Wakanda, but it's about as permanent as that time where Superman got electric powers. Even the original story basically used time travel to undo the deaths, as Nebula used the Gauntlet to spin the universe back to the time before Thanos did the snap.
[QUOTE=Dboi654;3667985]I am one of the few people who wasn't bothered by the crying and all. I had my issues with Hickman but this isn't one of them.[/QUOTE]
I never get the complaints over the crying. Even Priest had T'Challa show vulnerability and get emotional on the rare occasion.
[IMG]https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6Ixca90OWMg/VGTR7uxdZ2I/AAAAAAAAV0Y/imFtESSGTRo/s1600/Image00007.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Ekie;3668171]no one cares about this Q bull. [/QUOTE]
Actually people responded very well to Shuri's role. They got a lot of positive attention for having a black girl in a STEM field and hopefully helping inspire girls of color to get into those fields of study.
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We're talking about as it pertains to T'challa.
Ofcourse showing a Black girl be the smartest inventor is positive in the grand scheme. That's not the debate.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3667987]Hickmans kinda like coates.
Promise something in first couple issues, fail to deliver, handwave it away. :P
My favotite part of the run was seeing wakanda beat back the bkack order on panel...
Oh...
Shields and teleporting was cool tho...
(I actually like the story but there were abundant issues imo. The cry aint one of them)[/QUOTE]
Oh, thanks for reminding me of THIS complaint. At least he beat the dude, as opposed to getting trashed or not even appearing on panel. His fight with Namor was amazing too. All those incredible feats, and "but the one thing wasn't on panel!" Smh
And he did eventually try to kill Namor. But he survived. All the same, the stuff y'all got heated over was still really good T'Challa stuff. Now my guy is in chains (at least based on that cover).
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3667993][B] We can take off the rose tinted glasses. The crying? it wasn't reasonable it made zero sense why he would cry in that situation, it was weak scene it's not the end all or anything, there wee much bigger issues then that, but it was still stupid.
Also in SW II he ended up broken at Dooms feet just like in Mayberrys doomwar. T'Challa had some good moments but each one was preceded by or followed after some bad bumbling moment[/B][/QUOTE]
It was totally reasonable to cry in that situation. T'Challa has always been shrewd, but he has never been a killer of innocents, much less billions of innocents.
And in Secret Wars 2, he ended up in that position after fighting the god of the MULTIVERSE with the Infinity Gauntlet. He was fighting on an abstract level and HANDLING it. Even when he lost, he still won. Everything went according to plan AND he saved his people, grabbing the gem in the end. It was some of the best T'Challa.
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[QUOTE=SKJoker;3668224]Oh, thanks for reminding me of THIS complaint. At least he beat the dude, as opposed to getting trashed or not even appearing on panel. His fight with Namor was amazing too. All those incredible feats, and "but the one thing wasn't on panel!" Smh
And he did eventually try to kill Namor. But he survived. All the same, the stuff y'all got heated over was still really good T'Challa stuff. Now my guy is in chains (at least based on that cover).
It was totally reasonable to cry in that situation. T'Challa has always been shrewd, but he has never been a killer of innocents, much less billions of innocents.
And in Secret Wars 2, he ended up in that position after fighting the god of the MULTIVERSE with the Infinity Gauntlet. He was fighting on an abstract level and HANDLING it. Even when he lost, he still won. Everything went according to plan AND he saved his people, grabbing the gem in the end. It was some of the best T'Challa.[/QUOTE]
I think you arr confusing me eith someone who likes coates run. Hickman is priest compared to coatsville
But yeah, how dare i expect to see things on panel and expect to see what was promised delivered.
And are you really considering almost killing namor a positive lol? The same plan you praise involved waiting for namor to wake up out of pettiness, which allowed the whole cabal to survive. Genius move.
(Namor also served no storytelling purpose at that time. He was kept alive for nothing)
Hickman got a lot right but got a lot very wrong too.
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[QUOTE=Holt;3668212]I also don't know how anyone thinks Avengers 4 isn't gonna involve time travel of some sort anyway. [SPOIL]It's pretty much confirmed via set pics and casting info that there's gonna be some sort of time skip and then the heroes trying to travel back in time to stop Thanos.[/SPOIL].
It's entirely possible (nay, likely) we will see Shuri as the ruler of Wakanda, but it's about as permanent as that time where Superman got electric powers. Even the original story basically used time travel to undo the deaths, as Nebula used the Gauntlet to spin the universe back to the time before Thanos did the snap.
[/QUOTE]
I'm actually kind of worried about plot holes in Avengers 4. Just the way Infinity War shook out and what they'll have to do in the next film, has me a little concerned.
[spoil] I literally can't think of a time travel movie without potholes. I am curious how the will craft stores after Avengers 4. Tony Stark is the lynchpin of the Universe. Whedon firmly established that and so did Infinity War (unless you can't Civil War as an Avengers film because that was more Cap than Ironman). I'm curious if they round things out a lil more or they just move another character into that lynchpin role. Most big superhero ensembles do it. The X-men had Wolverine, DCAU had Batman etc. etc. [/spoil]
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[QUOTE=Ekie;3668183]In the MCU...that's enough.
She can still kick but without being the "best" at it. See Thor and Tessa.[/QUOTE]
There's already multiple women in T'Challas supporting cast who can fight. Shuri just being one more makes her interchangeable.
Her being the smartest person in the world makes her stand out apart from the other women and a part from T'Challa.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3668275]I think you arr confusing me eith someone who likes coates run. Hickman is priest compared to coatsville
But yeah, how dare i expect to see things on panel and expect to see what was promised delivered.
And are you really considering almost killing namor a positive lol? The same plan you praise involved waiting for namor to wake up out of pettiness, which allowed the whole cabal to survive. Genius move.
(Namor also served no storytelling purpose at that time. He was kept alive for nothing)
Hickman got a lot right but got a lot very wrong too.[/QUOTE]
I disagree that Namor was kept alive for nothing.
Him and T'Challa putting aside their differences and working together I think was important to show on panel (something we never got with Steve and Tony). It's what heroes are SUPPOSED to do... they're supposed to rise about their own petty issues and be real heroes in the end.
I wish they had more panel time to explore them resolving their issues. But at least we got it.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3668282]I'm actually kind of worried about plot holes in Avengers 4. Just the way Infinity War shook out and what they'll have to do in the next film, has me a little concerned.
[spoil] I literally can't think of a time travel movie without potholes. I am curious how the will craft stores after Avengers 4. Tony Stark is the lynchpin of the Universe. Whedon firmly established that and so did Infinity War (unless you can't Civil War as an Avengers film because that was more Cap than Ironman). I'm curious if they round things out a lil more or they just move another character into that lynchpin role. Most big superhero ensembles do it. The X-men had Wolverine, DCAU had Batman etc. etc. [/spoil][/QUOTE]
It's no one lynchpin of the Universe.
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[QUOTE=Holt;3668212]I also don't know how anyone thinks Avengers 4 isn't gonna involve time travel of some sort anyway. [SPOIL]It's pretty much confirmed via set pics and casting info that there's gonna be some sort of time skip and then the heroes trying to travel back in time to stop Thanos.[/SPOIL].
It's entirely possible (nay, likely) we will see Shuri as the ruler of Wakanda, but it's about as permanent as that time where Superman got electric powers. Even the original story basically used time travel to undo the deaths, as Nebula used the Gauntlet to spin the universe back to the time before Thanos did the snap.
I never get the complaints over the crying. Even Priest had T'Challa show vulnerability and get emotional on the rare occasion.
[IMG]https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6Ixca90OWMg/VGTR7uxdZ2I/AAAAAAAAV0Y/imFtESSGTRo/s1600/Image00007.jpg[/IMG]
Actually people responded very well to Shuri's role. They got a lot of positive attention for having a black girl in a STEM field and hopefully helping inspire girls of color to get into those fields of study.[/QUOTE]
If they show Shuri as Black Panther in A4, She will become BP again down the line.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3668318]I disagree that Namor was kept alive for nothing.
Him and T'Challa putting aside their differences and working together I think was important to show on panel (something we never got with Steve and Tony). It's what heroes are SUPPOSED to do... they're supposed to rise about their own petty issues and be real heroes in the end.
I wish they had more panel time to explore them resolving their issues. But at least we got it.[/QUOTE]
I think you mean ANY panel time. It resolved during a time jump.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3668132]They sort of did that with Pym, though we didn't know about it until later.
At the time that was my biggest criticism of the Illuminati as well though. But in hindsight it sort of worked out for the best. Someone needed to focus on stopping the incursions, and they had that covered (until the Cabal took over) while Doom got to the root of the problem. Both bases needed to be covered.[/QUOTE]
The problem though is that they logically down that from the start. It's like having a murder mystery and never wondering about the motive.
More than that, they had the resources to do so much more. I mean hell, every member was a 24/7 hero.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3668334]I think you mean ANY panel time. It resolved during a time jump.[/QUOTE]
We got them working working together to stop Doom on panel. We don't see how they got to that point (and believe me I wish we did), but the point being we see for a fact that they are putting aside their own personal agendas to save the freaking multiverse.
I at least needed to see it. Especially after how Steve and Tony went out. T'Challa and Namor are the contrast to that.
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[QUOTE=blacksonic;3668331]If they show Shuri as Black Panther in A4, She will become BP again down the line.[/QUOTE]
You say this like we've never had time travel stories with future versions of characters before or alternate realities before. That is essentially what this is for now.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3668345]We got them working working together to stop Doom on panel. We don't see how they got to that point (and believe me I wish we did), but the point being we see for a fact that they are putting aside their own personal agendas to save the freaking multiverse.
I at least needed to see it. Especially after how Steve and Tony went out. T'Challa and Namor are the contrast to that.[/QUOTE]
The only thing namor did was quip then get one shotted.
And they havent spoken sense.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3668340]The problem though is that they logically down that from the start. It's like having a murder mystery and never wondering about the motive.
More than that, they had the resources to do so much more. I mean hell, every member was a 24/7 hero.[/QUOTE]
But you can't solve the mystery of the incursions if you're killed by an incursion. Stopping the incursions was the only way they could buy themselves enough time to figure out what was causing them. If not for the Illuminati, Doom would have died before he had a chance to solve the mystery
That aside, I think because they didn't have access to molecule man or personal history with the Beyonder (to the degree Doom had), I suspect had they focused more on finding the source they would have fallen into the same trap as the Builders and the Captain Britian Corps. Dooms history make him uniquely qualified to solve the mystery.
Again, I don't disagree with your criticism in principal. I made the same remarks at the start of the story. But ultimately everyone played the roles they needed to play. Doom stopped the Beyonders, the Illumianti and the Cabal bought him time by stoppig the incursions, while Val pushed for them to not lose with the idea of the life rafts. They all sort of tackled the problem from different angles, and they all ended up being necessary.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3668360]The only thing namor did was quip then get one shotted.
And they havent spoken sense.[/QUOTE]
They worked together to find the artificacts, get the zombie army in line, and fight Doom.
But again, the important thing narratively speaking isn't even what Namor did. The important thing was to show that these characters were willing to do the right thing and put aside their personal beef to work together to save the multiverse. Win, lose or draw they at least were going out doing the right thing.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3668282][spoil] I literally can't think of a time travel movie without potholes.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
[spoil] Surprisingly [I]Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure[/I] is almost perfect. There's only one tiny paradox, and it could easily be hand-waved.[/spoil]
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[QUOTE=blacksonic;3668327]It's no one lynchpin of the Universe.[/QUOTE]
for the "[B][I][U][SIZE=5]Avengers[/SIZE][/U][/I][/B]" films there is one character that is tantamount to the lynchpin
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3668422]for the "[B][I][U][SIZE=5]Avengers[/SIZE][/U][/I][/B]" films there is one character that is tantamount to the lynchpin[/QUOTE]
Well, times change.
RDJ will want to play different roles, and he's gotten enough money from Disney to build his own, actual iron man armor.
Panther showed enough chops to be the next load bearer, I'd say ;)
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[QUOTE=XPac;3668006]How did the crying not make sense? T'Challa was essentially sentencing 2 entire universes to death because he was unable to compromise his beliefs and murder billions of people. His friends, family and loved ones were all going to die because he was unable to act. His father was screaming at him to save everyone and he couldn't do it. Anyone in that situation could crack in such an impossible situation.[/QUOTE]
[B] Because Tchalla would of stated his stance and told his father that with confidence, not acting like he was a child needing to be scolded by Daddy. Like you said he was unwilling to compromise hos beliefs, he would of acted like such. No one else cried like that when they came to the fact that they couldn't pull the trigger. Again it was a weak scene. Maybe of the art and dialogue was better it would of been less stupid but as it stands it was poor. Just as bad as the scene with Tchalla going to ororo too[/B]
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3668430]Well, times change.
RDJ will want to play different roles, and he's gotten enough money from Disney to build his own, actual iron man armor.
Panther showed enough chops to be the next load bearer, I'd say ;)[/QUOTE]
yes thats why I commented it will be interesting to see where Marvel goes, whether its a more well rounded approach or another character takes that "role"
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3668528][B] Because Tchalla would of stated his stance and told his father that with confidence, not acting like he was a child needing to be scolded by Daddy. Like you said he was unwilling to compromise hos beliefs, he would of acted like such. No one else cried like that when they came to the fact that they couldn't pull the trigger. Again it was a weak scene. Maybe of the art and dialogue was better it would of been less stupid but as it stands it was poor. Just as bad as the scene with Tchalla going to ororo too[/B][/QUOTE]
I was more curious to why he asked form the trigger in the first place. Hickman was good pushing to the edge of a great feat. than pulling back by either moving it off panel or failing to deliver the goods.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3668360]The only thing namor did was quip then get one shotted.
And they havent spoken sense.[/QUOTE]
[B] Exactly, had Tchalla killed Namor, sw wouldn't of changed have strange teleport everyone away, he goes with Tchalla to get the guantlet and gets killed by Doom.. same ending[/B]
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[QUOTE=Cville;3668022]From Ture over at the HEF. Lowering expectations for anyone who thought this was going to be good for WK. lol. He started Coates; first reboot on one knee. lol
[img]http://previewsworld.com/SiteImage/CatalogImage/STL080322?type=1[/img][/QUOTE]
I hate Coates. I fucking hate that male feminist. Get him the fuck off this book.