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[QUOTE=ed2962;2216268]I kinda hope it is acknowledged and then brushed aside. What's the point in breaking them up and then having them constantly either pining for or sniping at each other? It's time to move on.[/QUOTE]
ITS NEVER TIME TO MOVE ON
[URL=http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/ziggiy1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/59E70F30-1DEA-4349-86AC-C3869635BE61_zpsxtuctuzp.png.html][IMG]http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a614/ziggiy1/Mobile%20Uploads/59E70F30-1DEA-4349-86AC-C3869635BE61_zpsxtuctuzp.png[/IMG][/URL]
True love survives ALL
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2216781]I can't speak for every person buying the book. I'm buying it because I'm enjoying the story. I was only vaguely familiar with who Ta-Nehisi Coates was before he was announced as the writer (and my only excitement there was that T'Challa was getting his own book and the writer's status might mean people would support it). If everyone read the first issue and hated it, they would have stopped buying it just like you did. However, they haven't (yes, it dropped, but it's consistently selling high).
I know there are people here who don't like that. They don't like someone who loves Black Panther and has read almost everything that preceded this enjoys this book. But I also think if Don McGregor were the writer and Panther's Rage was published for the first time, the complaints would be just as loud, even though I still consider that one of the best Black Panther stories of all time. Or could you imagine Panther's Quest? He gets beat up by random South African villagers. He's nearly drowned by a normal human mercenary. Forget Goon Slam Gary (who got one hit that T'Challa used to his advantage), he gets the crap kicked out of him the entire time. And it's still compelling comic book writing.[/QUOTE]
Coates is a good writer and the story does pull you in. But I think what the problem here is the direction of the book and T'Challa to a certain extent being portrayed as an incompetent King.
I was going back and forth on the book but the question becomes: Do we really need a story like this? BP just had a really good showing in CW but he's looking like trash in his own book -again. On top of that Wakanda is officially destroyed not in a way it can come from by being rebuilt. It's a 3rd world country now rife with civil war -for what?
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2216781]I can't speak for every person buying the book. I'm buying it because I'm enjoying the story. I was only vaguely familiar with who Ta-Nehisi Coates was before he was announced as the writer (and my only excitement there was that T'Challa was getting his own book and the writer's status might mean people would support it). If everyone read the first issue and hated it, they would have stopped buying it just like you did. However, they haven't (yes, it dropped, but it's consistently selling high).
I know there are people here who don't like that. They don't like someone who loves Black Panther and has read almost everything that preceded this enjoys this book. But I also think if Don McGregor were the writer and Panther's Rage was published for the first time, the complaints would be just as loud, even though I still consider that one of the best Black Panther stories of all time. Or could you imagine Panther's Quest? He gets beat up by random South African villagers. He's nearly drowned by a normal human mercenary. Forget Goon Slam Gary (who got one hit that T'Challa used to his advantage), he gets the crap kicked out of him the entire time. And it's still compelling comic book writing.[/QUOTE]
Actually no, most hardcore BP fans like Don McGregor almost as much as Hudlin and Priest so we will not use anecdotal evidence based on what-iffery
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[QUOTE=CliffHanger2;2216800]Coates is a good writer and the story does pull you in. But I think what the problem here is the direction of the book and T'Challa to a certain extent being portrayed as an incompetent King. [/quote]
I would argue he's a distracted and overwhelmed King more than an incompetent one. I don't think that changes your point, but I think it's a more fair interpretation of what's been shown.
[quote] I was going back and forth on the book but the question becomes: Do we really need a story like this? BP just had a really good showing in CW but he's looking like trash in his own book -again. On top of that Wakanda is officially destroyed not in a way it can come from by being rebuilt. It's a 3rd world country now rife with civil war -for what?[/QUOTE]
Well, I think Wakanda absolutely can recover from this. The "for what" is because it's a deconstruction narrative. It's entirely about being at the low point and building oneself back up. The archetypical example from comic books would be Frank Miller's Born Again story in Daredevil. Maybe because that's my favorite comic book story of all time, I can appreciate this more, I don't know.
And the fact that you use the word "again" is telling. It means Coates is in fact following the tropes of writers that came before. And he's basically being judged because of what they did. I argued before if his story came first, the complaint of "we're sick of things being negative" wouldn't apply. But I don't think a comic book writer can entirely write for the here and now. Writer runs tend to be fairly discrete acts that are going to be read out of order by future readers.
[QUOTE=BmoreAkuma;2216809]Actually no, most hardcore BP fans like Don McGregor almost as much as Hudlin and Priest so we will not use anecdotal evidence based on what-iffery[/QUOTE]
Sure, people say they like McGregor and I don't dispute they do. But wouldn't complaints about "Goon Slam Gary" apply equally to many things from Panther's Quest or Black Panther vs. the KKK? How would you explain criticizing one but not the other?
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Amandla my brothers and sisters! I'm new to the Comic Book Resources community and in particular, this thread. I'm a recent reader of this thread and so far I've read a lot of the pages regarding Ta-Nehesi Coates new take on our King of Wakanda, and I first and foremost, respect everyone's opinions of it. Hopefully I can be active on here as much as possible, so I can continue to chat with you all and share opinions.
I have been a fan of T'Challa since I first saw him in Marvel's The Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heroes animated series. For me, he was the coolest member of the team, and it was nice to find an African superhero being of importance, since I originally from Nigeria. I recently got into comics (about 4 years ago), though I've always watched and loved comic book movies, TV series and animated features.
More on the topic at hand, I have read quite a lot - though not all - of Black Panther titles, and his features. I've read all of the 'Holy Trinity', if you will: Christopher Priest's "The Client" and his full run; Reginald Hudlin's "Who is the Black Panther?" and more; and finally David Liss' "The Most Dangerous Man Alive" (seriously, why isn't that T'Challa's other title?). I've been thinking of reading Kirby's run and I'm currently reading Jonathan Hickman's New Avengers - Illuminati, and of course Ta-Nehesi Coates Black Panther.
I wish I could say I love it. I really do, but I don't. And since I don't I'm a sad Black Panther fan with a lot to say, and a lot to ask for. I want [I]my[/I] T'Challa and [I]my[/I] Wakanda back. The T'Challa and Wakanda we all know and fell in love with. The T'Challa and Wakanda we were promised. This T'Challa and this Wakanda are not perfect, but they are strong and smart and beautiful and they are the future.
I want the T'Challa that has Anti-Metal claws, Vibranium Energy Daggers, Energy-Dampening Vibranium Boots, Kimoyo, Cloaking technology and Teleportation, Hard-Light shielding, the Panther Jet and the Sky-Cycle. I want the T'Challa with superhuman acute senses, strength, speed, agility, reflexes, healing, durability and stamina, as well as the promised Black Panther knowledge. I want T'Challa the super genius and inventor, the master martial artist and weapons master, the master acrobat and marksman, and the proud king of Wakanda. I want him to be this [I]all the time[/I]. If Batman is allowed to have a Utility Belt with almost every bloody gizmo you can imagine, why can't my Black Panther? If Superman can have almost every superpower known to man, why can't my Black Panther? If Doctor Doom is allowed to be a master of science, magic, martial artist and a royal and a millionaire, with a powerful nation, why can't my Black Panther and Wakanda be that?
I do not want this T'Challa, who's suddenly reluctant to be king, who's form of combat is "grab 'em by the face, toss 'em 'n' give 'em the 'ole force push" and gets tagged while foolishly and sluggishly doing so by random no-name fodder, who has suddenly has no idea how to rule his nation that somehow has turned into a cesspool of rape tree houses, Boko-Haram inspired loonies, scantily-clad royal guards, blandly-dressed royals, citizens and workers, and boring science and technology. It's so depressing to read this when I have to deal with what happens in my home country, something that happens [I]everyday[/I], and I have to read it when I [I]want to escape it all[/I]. Whatever respect I had for Coates has been lost, possibly forever.
I have nothing new to say about this book. I think the opinions of those who oppose this direction have been heard loud and clear. I just know what I want, and I thought I should say that. The Black Panther mythos has been reduced to 7 Years a Failure. My only hope now for witnessing a Black Panther mythos and story I would love now rests in the hands of Kevin Feige, Ryan Coogler, Joe Robert Cole and Chadwick Boseman. It should not be this way.
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2216832]Amandla my brothers and sisters! I'm new to the Comic Book Resources community and in particular, this thread. I'm a recent reader of this thread and so far I've read a lot of the pages regarding Ta-Nehesi Coates new take on our King of Wakanda, and I first and foremost, respect everyone's opinions of it. Hopefully I can be active on here as much as possible, so I can continue to chat with you all and share opinions.
I have been a fan of T'Challa since I first saw him in Marvel's The Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heroes animated series. For me, he was the coolest member of the team, and it was nice to find an African superhero being of importance, since I originally from Nigeria. I recently got into comics (about 4 years ago), though I've always watched and loved comic book movies, TV series and animated features.
More on the topic at hand, I have read quite a lot - though not all - of Black Panther titles, and his features. I've read all of the 'Holy Trinity', if you will: Christopher Priest's "The Client" and his full run; Reginald Hudlin's "Who is the Black Panther?" and more; and finally David Liss' "The Most Dangerous Man Alive" (seriously, why isn't that T'Challa's other title?). I've been thinking of reading Kirby's run and I'm currently reading Jonathan Hickman's New Avengers - Illuminati, and of course Ta-Nehesi Coates Black Panther.
I wish I could say I love it. I really do, but I don't. And since I don't I'm a sad Black Panther fan with a lot to say, and a lot to ask for. I want [I]my[/I] T'Challa and [I]my[/I] Wakanda back. The T'Challa and Wakanda we all know and fell in love with. The T'Challa and Wakanda we were promised. This T'Challa and this Wakanda are not perfect, but they are strong and smart and beautiful and they are the future.
I want the T'Challa that has Anti-Metal claws, Vibranium Energy Daggers, Energy-Dampening Vibranium Boots, Kimoyo, Cloaking technology and Teleportation, Hard-Light shielding, the Panther Jet and the Sky-Cycle. I want the T'Challa with superhuman acute senses, strength, speed, agility, reflexes, healing, durability and stamina, as well as the promised Black Panther knowledge. I want T'Challa the super genius and inventor, the master martial artist and weapons master, the master acrobat and marksman, and the proud king of Wakanda. I want him to be this [I]all the time[/I]. If Batman is allowed to have a Utility Belt with almost every bloody gizmo you can imagine, why can't my Black Panther? If Superman can have almost every superpower known to man, why can't my Black Panther? If Doctor Doom is allowed to be a master of science, magic, martial artist and a royal and a millionaire, with a powerful nation, why can't my Black Panther and Wakanda be that?
I do not want this T'Challa, who's suddenly reluctant to be king, who's form of combat is "grab 'em by the face, toss 'em 'n' give 'em the 'ole force push" and gets tagged while foolishly and sluggishly doing so by random no-name fodder, who has suddenly has no idea how to rule his nation that somehow has turned into a cesspool of rape tree houses, Boko-Haram inspired loonies, scantily-clad royal guards, blandly-dressed royals, citizens and workers, and boring science and technology. It's so depressing to read this when I have to deal with what happens in my home country, something that happens [I]everyday[/I], and I have to read it when I [I]want to escape it all[/I]. Whatever respect I had for Coates has been lost, possibly forever.
I have nothing new to say about this book. I think the opinions of those who oppose this direction have been heard loud and clear. I just know what I want, and I thought I should say that. The Black Panther mythos has been reduced to 7 Years a Failure. My only hope now for witnessing a Black Panther mythos and story I would love now rests in the hands of Kevin Feige, Ryan Coogler, Joe Robert Cole and Chadwick Boseman. It should not be this way.[/QUOTE]
Great first post! Welcome and I agree with you 100%.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2216872]Great first post! Welcome and I agree with you 100%.[/QUOTE]
Thank you! It feels good to join the community. I always read forums like these but I'm alwaya reluctant to join haha. I'll try to talk on here as much as possible. I'm still a student at university so I'm a busy bee most times.
And thanks for agreeing. I really just feel bad for those who actually [I]miss[/I] Priest, Hudlin, and Liss (albeit depowered) T'Challa. I think it is wrong for me to say I want T'Challa back since I never really had him, you know? I should probably change that...
Would you recommended any other Black Panther reads for me? Good ones, at least. And any other comics. I'm really interested in Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, Aquaman and Daredevil.
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[B] There isn't much else to say other then we will just have to wait and see what happens . If offended anyone with my last post then o Apologize. But I still have a glimmer of hope Coates is pointing in the right direction atleast in this next issue. The point is that I want Coatesto succeed because he is anchored to write Bpfor atleast another year after this arc.itd not too Late for his story to deliver, i just think his biggest downfall stated before is at some of that he is trying to convey haven't transitioned well. Which is important thatit happens. I don'tlike this story taking placein Wakanda. It would be better as a neighbor country being saved by Wakanda. I also understand why he is telling the story. It continuesto be how did does T'Challa and Wakanda fare? I think that Coates needs o show the folly of their actions and not completely come off as the heroes. Again this Couldof been alt better if T'Challa sent Aneka and Ayo to go and arrest the chieftain Andthen Aneka snapped and killed the guy, when they found out that there was more to it. But now it's ll up to what happens in these next issues will be key [/B]
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Are there plans for motion comics or a solo animated series? Since the movie is coming out, more [I]Panther [/I]media is needed.Like an animated adaptation of Priest's [I]The Client [/I]arc. It could have an expanded narrative. Get Priest himself to do the script.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2216683]One hell of a post, Brother Maj. I have very little to add, other than Coates' insistence that the DM (a group of strong female characters since day one) are somehow discriminatory and oppressive, and therefore he needs to use his book to inform the world of proper "gender politics", whatever that is.
Oh, and that Coates (as I feared) as become so enamored of his "farce push" that the character literally does not use any other abilities. Even the whole "soul tracking" power he introduced has fallen by the wayside, so that BP can push his way to mediocrity. Hell, I can't even remember T'Challa using his CLAWS on anything.
To be honest, Coates has disappointed me, and if it wasn't for the handful of friends I have on this thread, I'd be sorely tempted to abandon it, as I've abandoned the book. There really isn't much for me to Appreciate about Panther these days....
(And don't even [B]talk[/B] to me about [I]World of Pet Characters[/I])[/QUOTE]
With the Doras Coates is so focused on the Priest Run with the Doras being Wives in Waiting, that called him beloved and would only speak to him. That is why he had them write "No One Man" on the Man-Ape replacement dead body. He can't see past that it appears. So he has decided to change that.
I wonder what gave Coates the impression that, besides the Doras, Wakanda is a misogynistic society. He did not have to have the rape camps, If he needed to have the Doras rise up, he could have easily written a hidden lab preforming illegal and unauthorized experiments on citizens on the boarder. I was shocked he used rape camps. So much for a super advanced society. I also listened to a Roxanne Gay interview about the upcoming World of Wakanda series where he notes that even in super advanced societies, there are issues with gender roles and she will address that in the series.
Coates did state in an interview that he has never heard of any monarch with a potential harem of women around them, not take advantage of that. I don't remember him saying that he believes T'Challa did so himself and Priest wrote that T'Challa never did.
I have to admit that as long time BP fan, the numerous rebellions have become cliché but it also shows that there are many in the BP society that do not believe in the monarchy. So the question is whether Coates will end the monarchy.
Finally Coates states that he is saddened with what he has written in issue #12 which marks the end on season one of his story in regards to T'Challa. I have that means that this is his Act I in which he has to put his hero through the wringer and not something catastrophic.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2217339][B] There isn't much else to say other then we will just have to wait and see what happens . If offended anyone with my last post then o Apologize. But I still have a glimmer of hope Coates is pointing in the right direction atleast in this next issue. The point is that I want Coatesto succeed because he is anchored to write Bpfor atleast another year after this arc.itd not too Late for his story to deliver, i just think his biggest downfall stated before is at some of that he is trying to convey haven't transitioned well. Which is important thatit happens. I don'tlike this story taking placein Wakanda. It would be better as a neighbor country being saved by Wakanda. I also understand why he is telling the story. It continuesto be how did does T'Challa and Wakanda fare? I think that Coates needs o show the folly of their actions and not completely come off as the heroes. Again this Couldof been alt better if T'Challa sent Aneka and Ayo to go and arrest the chieftain Andthen Aneka snapped and killed the guy, when they found out that there was more to it. But now it's ll up to what happens in these next issues will be key [/B][/QUOTE]
Dude, no need to apologize. You have as much right to express your opinion and thoughts as anyone else. We don't agree with the story Coates is telling but we've had that argument about various Panther writers so that's nothing new.
Tho' I'll say it again. I think Coates has done too much harm to the reputation of BP and Wakanda with the rape camps and abuses. No matter what T'Challa does, this stuff still happened and was allowed to flourish under his rule. This is the damage that Coates has done and it may be irreparable at this point.
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[QUOTE=taozen;2217376]With the Doras Coates is so focused on the Priest Run with the Doras being Wives in Waiting, that called him beloved and would only speak to him. That is why he had them write "No One Man" on the Man-Ape replacement dead body. He can't see past that it appears. So he has decided to change that.
I wonder what gave Coates the impression that, besides the Doras, Wakanda is a misogynistic society. He did not have to have the rape camps, If he needed to have the Doras rise up, he could have easily written a hidden lab preforming illegal and unauthorized experiments on citizens on the boarder. I was shocked he used rape camps. So much for a super advanced society. I also listened to a Roxanne Gay interview about the upcoming World of Wakanda series where he notes that even in super advanced societies, there are issues with gender roles and she will address that in the series.
[B]Coates did state in an interview that he has never heard of any monarch with a potential harem of women around them, not take advantage of that. I don't remember him saying that he believes T'Challa did so himself and Priest wrote that T'Challa never did.
[/B]I have to admit that as long time BP fan, the numerous rebellions have become cliché but it also shows that there are many in the BP society that do not believe in the monarchy. So the question is whether Coates will end the monarchy.
Finally Coates states that he is saddened with what he has written in issue #12 which marks the end on season one of his story in regards to T'Challa. I have that means that this is his Act I in which he has to put his hero through the wringer and not something catastrophic.[/QUOTE]
The he should have read Priest's run to get an idea of how it's done.
A lot of us are in full agreement with you about the premise and how it's being done.
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2216832]Amandla my brothers and sisters! I'm new to the Comic Book Resources community and in particular, this thread. I'm a recent reader of this thread and so far I've read a lot of the pages regarding Ta-Nehesi Coates new take on our King of Wakanda, and I first and foremost, respect everyone's opinions of it. Hopefully I can be active on here as much as possible, so I can continue to chat with you all and share opinions.
I have been a fan of T'Challa since I first saw him in Marvel's The Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heroes animated series. For me, he was the coolest member of the team, and it was nice to find an African superhero being of importance, since I originally from Nigeria. I recently got into comics (about 4 years ago), though I've always watched and loved comic book movies, TV series and animated features.
More on the topic at hand, I have read quite a lot - though not all - of Black Panther titles, and his features. I've read all of the 'Holy Trinity', if you will: Christopher Priest's "The Client" and his full run; Reginald Hudlin's "Who is the Black Panther?" and more; and finally David Liss' "The Most Dangerous Man Alive" (seriously, why isn't that T'Challa's other title?). I've been thinking of reading Kirby's run and I'm currently reading Jonathan Hickman's New Avengers - Illuminati, and of course Ta-Nehesi Coates Black Panther.
I wish I could say I love it. I really do, but I don't. And since I don't I'm a sad Black Panther fan with a lot to say, and a lot to ask for. I want [I]my[/I] T'Challa and [I]my[/I] Wakanda back. The T'Challa and Wakanda we all know and fell in love with. The T'Challa and Wakanda we were promised. This T'Challa and this Wakanda are not perfect, but they are strong and smart and beautiful and they are the future.
I want the T'Challa that has Anti-Metal claws, Vibranium Energy Daggers, Energy-Dampening Vibranium Boots, Kimoyo, Cloaking technology and Teleportation, Hard-Light shielding, the Panther Jet and the Sky-Cycle. I want the T'Challa with superhuman acute senses, strength, speed, agility, reflexes, healing, durability and stamina, as well as the promised Black Panther knowledge. I want T'Challa the super genius and inventor, the master martial artist and weapons master, the master acrobat and marksman, and the proud king of Wakanda. I want him to be this [I]all the time[/I]. If Batman is allowed to have a Utility Belt with almost every bloody gizmo you can imagine, why can't my Black Panther? If Superman can have almost every superpower known to man, why can't my Black Panther? If Doctor Doom is allowed to be a master of science, magic, martial artist and a royal and a millionaire, with a powerful nation, why can't my Black Panther and Wakanda be that?
I do not want this T'Challa, who's suddenly reluctant to be king, who's form of combat is "grab 'em by the face, toss 'em 'n' give 'em the 'ole force push" and gets tagged while foolishly and sluggishly doing so by random no-name fodder, who has suddenly has no idea how to rule his nation that somehow has turned into a cesspool of rape tree houses, Boko-Haram inspired loonies, scantily-clad royal guards, blandly-dressed royals, citizens and workers, and boring science and technology. It's so depressing to read this when I have to deal with what happens in my home country, something that happens [I]everyday[/I], and I have to read it when I [I]want to escape it all[/I]. Whatever respect I had for Coates has been lost, possibly forever.
I have nothing new to say about this book. I think the opinions of those who oppose this direction have been heard loud and clear. I just know what I want, and I thought I should say that. The Black Panther mythos has been reduced to 7 Years a Failure. My only hope now for witnessing a Black Panther mythos and story I would love now rests in the hands of Kevin Feige, Ryan Coogler, Joe Robert Cole and Chadwick Boseman. It should not be this way.[/QUOTE]
Welcome to the thread. Solid post.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2217381]Dude, no need to apologize. You have as much right to express your opinion and thoughts as anyone else. We don't agree with the story Coates is telling but we've had that argument about various Panther writers so that's nothing new.
Tho' I'll say it again. I think Coates has done too much harm to the reputation of BP and Wakanda with the rape camps and abuses. No matter what T'Challa does, this stuff still happened and was allowed to flourish under his rule. This is the damage that Coates has done and it may be irreparable at this point.[/QUOTE]
[B]Maybe, the way can see this working is T'Challa says he realizes that things got bad and to prevent that from happening again he sets up a more intricate and stronger intelligence system, and Having representatives of the people to speak up about things going on. But he essentially needs to do a rally speech like Shuri did when she became Bp . He should init before the arc ends though as a way for Tetu to realize that he failed to turn he people against T'Challa, before T'Challa comes to smash him[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2217467][B]Maybe, the way can see this working is T'Challa says he realizes that things got bad and to prevent that from happening again he sets up a more intricate and stronger intelligence system, and Having representatives of the people to speak up about things going on. But he essentially needs to do a rally speech like Shuri did when she became Bp . He should init before the arc ends though as a way for Tetu to realize that he failed to turn he people against T'Challa, before T'Challa comes to smash him[/B][/QUOTE]
The problem is that some people will come to this book expecting to read about a highly advanced African society with it's great king and instead, find Boko Haram style tactics going on in a third world country led by a half-hearted king who's constantly being scolded and reminded of his failures.
We've had 7 years of this. Enough is enough.
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2216832]Amandla my brothers and sisters! I'm new to the Comic Book Resources community and in particular, this thread. I'm a recent reader of this thread and so far I've read a lot of the pages regarding Ta-Nehesi Coates new take on our King of Wakanda, and I first and foremost, respect everyone's opinions of it. Hopefully I can be active on here as much as possible, so I can continue to chat with you all and share opinions.
I have been a fan of T'Challa since I first saw him in Marvel's The Avengers: Earth Mightiest Heroes animated series. For me, he was the coolest member of the team, and it was nice to find an African superhero being of importance, since I originally from Nigeria. I recently got into comics (about 4 years ago), though I've always watched and loved comic book movies, TV series and animated features.
More on the topic at hand, I have read quite a lot - though not all - of Black Panther titles, and his features. I've read all of the 'Holy Trinity', if you will: Christopher Priest's "The Client" and his full run; Reginald Hudlin's "Who is the Black Panther?" and more; and finally David Liss' "The Most Dangerous Man Alive" (seriously, why isn't that T'Challa's other title?). I've been thinking of reading Kirby's run and I'm currently reading Jonathan Hickman's New Avengers - Illuminati, and of course Ta-Nehesi Coates Black Panther.
I wish I could say I love it. I really do, but I don't. And since I don't I'm a sad Black Panther fan with a lot to say, and a lot to ask for. I want [I]my[/I] T'Challa and [I]my[/I] Wakanda back. The T'Challa and Wakanda we all know and fell in love with. The T'Challa and Wakanda we were promised. This T'Challa and this Wakanda are not perfect, but they are strong and smart and beautiful and they are the future.
I want the T'Challa that has Anti-Metal claws, Vibranium Energy Daggers, Energy-Dampening Vibranium Boots, Kimoyo, Cloaking technology and Teleportation, Hard-Light shielding, the Panther Jet and the Sky-Cycle. I want the T'Challa with superhuman acute senses, strength, speed, agility, reflexes, healing, durability and stamina, as well as the promised Black Panther knowledge. I want T'Challa the super genius and inventor, the master martial artist and weapons master, the master acrobat and marksman, and the proud king of Wakanda. I want him to be this [I]all the time[/I]. If Batman is allowed to have a Utility Belt with almost every bloody gizmo you can imagine, why can't my Black Panther? If Superman can have almost every superpower known to man, why can't my Black Panther? If Doctor Doom is allowed to be a master of science, magic, martial artist and a royal and a millionaire, with a powerful nation, why can't my Black Panther and Wakanda be that?
I do not want this T'Challa, who's suddenly reluctant to be king, who's form of combat is "grab 'em by the face, toss 'em 'n' give 'em the 'ole force push" and gets tagged while foolishly and sluggishly doing so by random no-name fodder, who has suddenly has no idea how to rule his nation that somehow has turned into a cesspool of rape tree houses, Boko-Haram inspired loonies, scantily-clad royal guards, blandly-dressed royals, citizens and workers, and boring science and technology. It's so depressing to read this when I have to deal with what happens in my home country, something that happens [I]everyday[/I], and I have to read it when I [I]want to escape it all[/I]. Whatever respect I had for Coates has been lost, possibly forever.
I have nothing new to say about this book. I think the opinions of those who oppose this direction have been heard loud and clear. I just know what I want, and I thought I should say that. The Black Panther mythos has been reduced to 7 Years a Failure. My only hope now for witnessing a Black Panther mythos and story I would love now rests in the hands of Kevin Feige, Ryan Coogler, Joe Robert Cole and Chadwick Boseman. It should not be this way.[/QUOTE]
This is an excellent post. We wont get that T'challa from this writer. Coats is doing what he know how to do and that's tell a story about injustice from the view of the downtrodden. The Dora's are his "son" and Wakanda/Tchalla is "America". He doesn't know how to write a comic book featuring a Hero but he does know how to tell a story. So yea, We won't see the T'challa we know and love anytime soon in comics unless other writters step up their usage of him (Ewing).
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[QUOTE=keeen;2216442]
If, for the last 7 years, all of this terrible shit has happened to Wakanda, often as a result of T'Challa's questionable decisions, then why SHOULDN'T Coates be writing him as a failure of a leader who is trying to regain his grasp on and restore a once-thriving nation?
[/QUOTE]
This is stuff you do in issues 20-30 or so not the first issues of a new series where you are getting new readers. You build this stuff up and at least explain how it happens. The BP we all know would not have let any of this happen.
[QUOTE]
I mean, I can understand that longtime readers are sick of seeing the character written in a less than "awesome, awesome, awesome" way, but THESE ARE COMICS and that happens periodically as a way to keep characters interesting. I mean, in the exact same time span Cyclops has gone from being leader of his own somewhat idyllic nation off the coast of California to an absolutely maligned villain who's made every wrong decision possible, right? In another 5 years he'll probably be leading the X-men again. That's how comics go sometimes.
[/QUOTE]
Not for black characters. Cyclops will ALWAYS have a writer willing to fix him be it in X-Men or a solo.
We don't get that luck. We either don't get that writer or an editorial staff that wants to harp on the negative or stay in the same place. See John Stewart, Cyborg & Eli Bradley. How many times can John Stewart cry over a blown up planet? Or Cyborg's man vs machine-even 7 of 9 & Vision moved on from that. Eli is DEFINED by his drug use.
The fear with this is after Coates leaves-who else will continue the mess? The X-Office needs no more material to take shots at BP.
[QUOTE]Coates also admitted that he couldn't get his head around the concept of a high tech society still being ruled by monarchy and also went on to state that he did not believe that it was possible for T'Challa (as a man) to not abuse his position by indulging in sexual relations with the Dora Milaje. [/QUOTE]
So he doesn't believe black men can't have RESTRAINT with their manhood?
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2217752]This is stuff you do in issues 20-30 or so not the first issues of a new series where you are getting new readers. You build this stuff up and at least explain how it happens. The BP we all know would not have let any of this happen.[/quote]
I do think there's an argument that the opening story is too ambitious - that it's trying to be a signature story without wetting your feet first. I think the way Marvel's set up now kind of necessitates that, unfortunately. If you don't make an impact, you get relaunched.
[quote]So he doesn't believe black men can't have RESTRAINT with their manhood?[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's a fair interpretation of his comments, which have never implied that T'Challa did anything inappropriate - just that the system itself is problematic (in fact, the claim that he never read Priest's run is false based on his comments).
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So enough about Coats and whatever the hell he's doing for a moment
Back to MBJ playing Eric freaking Killmonger.
I just watched Falcon rising ([url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2295722/[/url]) Staring Michael Jai White who fought Lateef Crowder (Caporeira Martial Artist from lots of films) and it was beautiful to see them go at it kick for athletic kick without the use of Shaky cam or Quick Cuts for stunt men film chops.
That's what I wanted to see in a panther film. And yea yea Jordan and Coogler do a boxing movie with a few straight shots but that's Boxing only. Michael B Jordan has never taken martial arts right? So does anyone really think we are going to get an epic hand to hand fight from him in the same vein we could have if EITHER of these two men mentioned above would have given along side what training Boseman has.
[IMG]http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjE1ODAxMDk5Nl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwOTE0MDgxODE@._V1_SX1500_CR0,0,1500,999_AL_.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://iv1.lisimg.com/image/1434284/640full-lateef-crowder.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://www.celebheights.com/pr1/michael-jai-white.jpg[/IMG]
One of these three is not like the other
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But it's good to have friends in high places
[IMG]http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/56d61f1cbab3b6473b8f7eb5/master/h_590,c_limit/style-disrupters-derek-blasberg-michael-b-jordan-ryan-coogler.jpg[/IMG]
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I do as before Creed he didn't do anything relating to boxing training but he dedicated himself to it once he got the role and he posted him doing the training on his various social media connections and knowing that it's pretty sure he'll repeat that with whatever fighting style they choose for him.
It's also a disservice to Michael and the Creed stunt team as they were actually having boxing matches( folks got ko'd )and got as real as they two guys you favor
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2218154]But it's good to have friends in high places
[IMG]http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/56d61f1cbab3b6473b8f7eb5/master/h_590,c_limit/style-disrupters-derek-blasberg-michael-b-jordan-ryan-coogler.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
You do know Crowder and White are friends right?
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[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2218156]I do as before Creed he didn't do anything relating to boxing training but he dedicated himself to it once he got the role and he posted him doing the training on his various social media connections and knowing that it's pretty sure he'll repeat that with whatever fighting style they choose for him.
It's also a disservice to Michael and the Creed stunt team as they were actually having boxing matches( folks got ko'd )and got as real as they two guys you favor[/QUOTE]
Noooo, there's no comparison to what those two guys can do Martial arts wise (which takes alot more time and skill to learn than just focusing on punching and boxing).
You aren't getting this or anything close to it out of Jordan.
[video=youtube;yM-OtCq2fQE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM-OtCq2fQE[/video]
I'm not saying he isn't a good actor or dedicated to his craft. This is just a hugely miscast role. As bad as making Denzel Killmonger just because ya know...he can act. He should have been cast as someone else but his friendship lead to this larger role. We will be getting your typical marvel fight scenes the likes closer to what we saw in Guardians
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[video=youtube;i5TZQXMJT6A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5TZQXMJT6A[/video]
For good measure. Those kicks at that speed with that level of fluidity isn't something that an actor is gonna up and learn. Otherwise the fight scenes in GoG, Ant-man, and even Cap would have been much better. I personally expected a higher level of Martial arts to be introduced in a Panther movie via Killmonger and Panther but it's obvious people are gonna be happy with the typical punch punch, cut away, punch, cut, stunt double, camera shake, punch, cut formula Marvel currently employs
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White also has [B]eight[/B] black belts, in various styles. He didn't get that good for just one movie. According to his website, he's been into the arts since he was a kid (he was [B]teaching[/B] karate at 14).
But I think casting for martial arts skill alone would be a disservice to the character. While White is a decent actor, he may simply not be the best for the role.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2218161]Noooo, there's no comparison to what those two guys can do Martial arts wise (which takes alot more time and skill to learn than just focusing on punching and boxing).
You aren't getting this or anything close to it out of Jordan.
[video=youtube;yM-OtCq2fQE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM-OtCq2fQE[/video]
I'm not saying he isn't a good actor or dedicated to his craft. This is just a hugely miscast role. As bad as making Denzel Killmonger just because ya know...he can act. He should have been cast as someone else but his friendship lead to this larger role. We will be getting your typical marvel fight scenes the likes closer to what we saw in Guardians[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ekie;2218175]
For good measure. Those kicks at that speed with that level of fluidity isn't something that an actor is gonna up and learn. Otherwise the fight scenes in GoG, Ant-man, and even Cap would have been much better. I personally expected a higher level of Martial arts to be introduced in a Panther movie via Killmonger and Panther but it's obvious people are gonna be happy with the typical punch punch, cut away, punch, cut, stunt double, camera shake, punch, cut formula Marvel currently employs[/QUOTE]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/yungburnout/Mobile%20Uploads/6F742490-7A3D-4385-B76D-246365318466_zpsnskgs62t.jpg[/img]
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Is that guy laughing at the thought of MBJ being an intimidating presence?[IMG]http://mariahdarsha.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Michael-B-Jordan-VIBE-3-640x960.png[/IMG]
Cause yea that is about that funny
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2218598]Is that guy laughing at the thought of MBJ being an intimidating presence?[/QUOTE]
Sorry bro. They hired the right Michael. MJW can play something else. There is still M'buku.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2218598]Is that guy laughing at the thought of MBJ being an intimidating presence?[IMG]http://mariahdarsha.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Michael-B-Jordan-VIBE-3-640x960.png[/IMG]
Cause yea that is about that funny[/QUOTE]
At this point this is coming off as hating. There are no facts ekie. This is the same as Boseman with his shirt off BS argument. Killmonger might not be physically intimidating like his comic counter part. He might me mentally, because it never made since that Killmonger could match T'challa who is enhanced physically! He might be a Bad Batman. Maybe he gets enhanced later. But his main weapon might be his mind. Much like T'challa.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2218319]White also has [B]eight[/B] black belts, in various styles. He didn't get that good for just one movie. According to his website, he's been into the arts since he was a kid (he was [B]teaching[/B] karate at 14).
But I think casting for martial arts skill alone would be a disservice to the character. While White is a decent actor, he may simply not be the best for the role.[/QUOTE]
If they want to cast White they could. Maybe he can be the new HZ chief from Coates run. He just not going to be a main lead.
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Hating is a lame term. Are you "Hating" on Coats because you don't like or support the ridiculousness that he's writing even though sales are against our opinion? No. I've given plenty of facts to support my opinion
So lets stop with the hating term. I think it's a poor cast and the difference between Jordan as Killmonger vs Boseman as Tchalla is that Boseman is a trained fighter in a fighters role whose character isn't physically imposing anyway so the too skinny stuff never held water. Yea Killmonger is a threat mentally. But in comics he is physically as well and Jordans presence not so much his physic because I'm sure he'll roid (I mean work out) up as much as possible. He'll still look out of place in the role.
It may "work out fine" like that horrible Wonder Woman casting did but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been done better if Coogler had "fairly" tried to cast the role.
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In other news as well.....
I'm getting a custom Wallet made. What are some of you all's favorite quotes from T'challa in comics ?
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[B]"I am the Black Panther, Kong of the dead, and soon to be your new Lord" NA
"You have already lost, for I have trained my entire life to face the unknown" SWaD
[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2218846][B]"I am the Black Panther, Kong of the dead, and soon to be your new Lord" NA
"You have already lost, for I have trained my entire life to face the unknown" SWaD
[/B][/QUOTE]
I forgot all about that NA quote. Definitely the best I can remember
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2218598]Is that guy laughing at the thought of MBJ being an intimidating presence?[IMG]http://mariahdarsha.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Michael-B-Jordan-VIBE-3-640x960.png[/IMG]
Cause yea that is about that funny[/QUOTE]
No Evans is laughing at the mental gymnastics you go through to tell us how casting a better actor was wrong because he hasn't been training martial arts since he came out the womb, you're like the wrestling fan who says John Cena has buried so and so with zero evidence
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2218695]Hating is a lame term. Are you "Hating" on Coats because you don't like or support the ridiculousness that he's writing even though sales are against our opinion? No. I've given plenty of facts to support my opinion
So lets stop with the hating term. I think it's a poor cast and the difference between Jordan as Killmonger vs Boseman as Tchalla is that Boseman is a trained fighter in a fighters role whose character isn't physically imposing anyway so the too skinny stuff never held water. Yea Killmonger is a threat mentally. But in comics he is physically as well and Jordans presence not so much his physic because I'm sure he'll roid (I mean work out) up as much as possible. He'll still look out of place in the role.
It may "work out fine" like that horrible Wonder Woman casting did but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been done better if Coogler had "fairly" tried to cast the role.[/QUOTE]
When you have cats talking about how how actors look with their shirts off or how big they are as some sort of standard to play in BP or in BP. That speaks for its self. Coates and this are dissimilar. Sales don't mean quality or that it's good. Again, unless you are a Macamore is better then Nas, Kendrick, Wu type of individuals. You are suggesting that being able to fight is the main thing they are looking for. Its clear it's not. They are looking for actors and Michael B. Jordan's résumé backs that up.
Again, MJW could be up for another role. Maybe Moses Magnum or something.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2218695]Hating is a lame term. Are you "Hating" on Coats because you don't like or support the ridiculousness that he's writing even though sales are against our opinion? No. I've given plenty of facts to support my opinion
So lets stop with the hating term. I think it's a poor cast and the difference between Jordan as Killmonger vs Boseman as Tchalla is that Boseman is a trained fighter in a fighters role whose character isn't physically imposing anyway so the too skinny stuff never held water. Yea Killmonger is a threat mentally. But in comics he is physically as well and Jordans presence not so much his physic because I'm sure he'll roid (I mean work out) up as much as possible. He'll still look out of place in the role.
It may "work out fine" like that horrible Wonder Woman casting did but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been done better if Coogler had "fairly" tried to cast the role.[/QUOTE]
I'd reserve judgement to we get a trailer, at the very least. I remember when a lot of people were fan-casting MJW as T'Challa/Black Panther on the [I]sole merit[/I] that he's a martial artist. I think we need to realise that Marvel Studios (heck, most other studios for that matter) don't cast 'martial artist actors' in [I]major roles[/I]. Minor roles, yeah. They are doing it with Scott Adkins, and they (kinda) did it with whoever it was that played Baltroc in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2218952]ho ever it was that played Baltroc in Captain America: The Winter Soldier.[/QUOTE]
George St. Pierre, a former UFC Welterweight champion.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2218968]George St. Pierre, a former UFC Welterweight champion.[/QUOTE]
Yea thanks. Just realising I could have just Googled that :D
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[url]https://twitter.com/Mugsysam/status/762147397699039232[/url]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpOw7h8XgAEPa8U.jpg[/IMG]