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[QUOTE=XPac;1944850]Yeah Aquaman has had a bit of an identity crisis for decades. I think they've been trying to reform his Super Friends perception since forever.[/QUOTE]
Seriously.
I read new 52 Aquaman just becaus I was trying stuff out and I was blown away he was like.... cool lol. It was esaily my favorite ongoing
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;1944634]Agreed.
If I was a troll, I would be in that thread saying I told you so! None of them would listen. Panther NEVER needed Storm. That was delusional BS, parroted by readers and fans who didn't get it.
In my opinion, Okoye is the route. Make her a recently dedicated inhuman and very powerful. She already has history. Or just make a new character. A Inhuman Wakanda Queen would be glorious![/QUOTE]
True, but I don't think Marvel would give Okoye the push, marketing, etc. she needs to be popular outside of the Black Panther book. I think one writer on the book would do it, but if that writer left, then I think Okoye and all of her development would fall to the wayside...especially when in the past Black Panther characters have either been killed off or have gone into limbo when new Black Panther writers have taken over.
This black woman who would be Black Panther's love interest/queen would have to be someone who can't be placed into limbo under any circumstances, and is relatively "safe" no matter what.
Although Storm is my first choice, a very powerful, black Inhuman female is intriguing...I would just be worried about future Marvel writers not developing her and not making her important to Wakanda, the Black Panther mythos AND the entire Marvel Universe on a permanent basis.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1944308]I'm 99% sure after DC next whatever Lois and Clarke will be the super couple while Super and WW be a thing of the past.
It's a fun idea to play with because plenty of people thought about it but I never thought that would last.[/QUOTE]
It got Wonder Woman the second monthly book that she could never have maintained on her own.
That is reason enough to keep them a couple.
It actually helps both franchises (Wondy gets a second book, Supes gets to have yet another book) even if it is a bad idea.
Bad for Superman that is. Lois humanized Clark and made that part of the character interesting.
It doesnt effect Wonder Woman as nothing can humanize her.
But 'mo money, 'mo money. Who cares about Supes' characterization?
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1944658][IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/232z3s.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Aunt May's always like, "More syrup, Peter?" Hahahahaha
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[QUOTE=XPac;1944791]Honestly I think the reason there's so many interracial relationships I'd because the vast majority of characters with books are white and giving them a minority love interest was way to add diversity.
Same logic applied to side kicks. Iron Man needs a side kick or Iron Fist needs a girl friend, might as well make them a minority person just to add a few more to the mix.[/QUOTE]
What does anything you've typed here, have to do with the fact that none of the black superheroes currently being published by Marvel, have black love interests?
Back in the 1970's T'Challa, Cage and Wilson all had black female significant others and let's not forget Shang Chi who had the lovely Leiko Wu as a partner.
It's not as if there were anymore (or less) white characters back then than there are now so your argument doesn't hold any water.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;1944869]It got Wonder Woman the second monthly book that she could never have maintained on her own.
That is reason enough to keep them a couple.
It actually helps both franchises (Wondy gets a second book, Supes gets to have yet another book) even if it is a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
Oh O don't doubt that it didn't help Wonder Woman. I just don't think it's gonna last.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;1944872]Aunt May's always like, "More syrup, Peter?" Hahahahaha[/QUOTE]
Aunt May's about that wheat cake life. :cool:
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Is Captain Universe (Tamara) being used anywhere right now, or is she in limbo, now that Hickman is no longer writing her?
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;1944883]Is Captain Universe (Tamara) being used anywhere right now, or is she in limbo, now that Hickman is no longer writing her?[/QUOTE]
I doubt it. She was barely used by Hickman.
Though I guess that's understandable since she likely falls in the "too powerful " category most of the time. I wonder if Ewing won't use her in Ultimates. They could maybe fit her into whatever is going on with Eternity.
She'd make for an interesting BP girl friend. She's a lowly waitress at some dinner becoming quern, but she's also possibly the most powerful super hero in the universe.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;1944869]It got Wonder Woman the second monthly book that she could never have maintained on her own.
That is reason enough to keep them a couple.
It actually helps both franchises (Wondy gets a second book, Supes gets to have yet another book) even if it is a bad idea.
Bad for Superman that is. Lois humanized Clark and made that part of the character interesting.
It doesnt effect Wonder Woman as nothing can humanize her.
But 'mo money, 'mo money. Who cares about Supes' characterization?[/QUOTE]
Yeah the biggest downside to Clarke being with WW instead of Lois is that it effectively took Clark Kent off the table. He essentially became just Superman.
And I think that's why stories often give heroes non-specific hero love interests. It's why Spider-Man had to pick Mary Jane over Black Cat.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;1944864]True, but I don't think Marvel would give Okoye the push, marketing, etc. she needs to be popular outside of the Black Panther book. I think one writer on the book would do it, but if that writer left, then I think Okoye and all of her development would fall to the wayside...especially when in the past Black Panther characters have either been killed off or have gone into limbo when new Black Panther writers have taken over.
This black woman who would be Black Panther's love interest/queen would have to be someone who can't be placed into limbo under any circumstances, and is relatively "safe" no matter what.
Although Storm is my first choice, a very powerful, black Inhuman female is intriguing...I would just be worried about future Marvel writers not developing her and not making her important to Wakanda, the Black Panther mythos AND the entire Marvel Universe on a permanent basis.[/QUOTE]
I am not sure why are you so obsessed with the popularity aspect of the love interest.
Love interests are generally internal anyway. Mary Jane is just now showing up in other books and she is one of the most known love interests in comics.
Supporting cast is there to support the lead. IF the lead goes into limbo land, then the supporting cast goes with it. That is true across about 99% of the time.
And if your criteria is "bankable, non limbo land females" that leaves you with like Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, She-Hulk, and a few others.
And really, I don't want someone else in control of T'challa's potential queen. It just sets up future storylines where it all goes to hell.
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So how does BP do against Spider-Man in the movie?
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Back to Aquaman because it fits...
If you want Tchalla to have a queen with super powers... it needs to come from his own Mythos.
Just like Mera.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;1944910]So how does BP do against Spider-Man in the movie?[/QUOTE]
both are team iron man....
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1944908]I am not sure why are you so obsessed with the popularity aspect of the love interest.
Love interests are generally internal anyway. Mary Jane is just now showing up in other books and she is one of the most known love interests in comics.
Supporting cast is there to support the lead. IF the lead goes into limbo land, then the supporting cast goes with it. That is true across about 99% of the time.
And if your criteria is "bankable, non limbo land females" that leaves you with like Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, She-Hulk, and a few others.
And really, I don't want someone else in control of T'challa's potential queen. It just sets up future storylines where it all goes to hell.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think the Storm experiment sort of showed us the downsides of a very popular female character acting as a love interest.
It probably is simpler to just have one that's solely under the BP writers on so there's no potential conflict of interest. BP is probably more popular at this point than any marvel female anyways.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;1944869]It got Wonder Woman the second monthly book that she could never have maintained on her own.
That is reason enough to keep them a couple.
It actually helps both franchises (Wondy gets a second book, Supes gets to have yet another book) even if it is a bad idea.
Bad for Superman that is. Lois humanized Clark and made that part of the character interesting.
It doesnt effect Wonder Woman as nothing can humanize her.
But 'mo money, 'mo money. Who cares about Supes' characterization?[/QUOTE]
I've always been against the notion that Superman needs Lois humanize him. Clark is humanized by the Kents and the fact that he saves people's lives and as a journalist writes about human issues and has human friends and lives among humans. He could date a Mermaid and still be the son of a Kansas farmer. Does Thor needs a human love interest to be relatable? Does the Silver Surfer? Why it is Superman the only one "trapped" in a lame relationship that goes nowhere. End rant lol
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[QUOTE=XPac;1944913]Yeah I think the Storm experiment sort of showed us the downsides of a very popular female character acting as a love interest.
It probably is simpler to just have one that's solely under the BP writers on so there's no potential conflict of interest. BP is probably more popular at this point than any marvel female anyways.[/QUOTE]
Black Panther should be a player.. Or a head of state who by his very position in society is denied true love and has to settle for a arranged relationship with another head of state. Monica Lynne should be his impossible love.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1944912]both are team iron man....[/QUOTE]
That's the upside of Team Stark. They have 2 new character that they want to get over so they'll likely look pretty awesome. Though that likely balances out with it being Steve's movie.
I do hope Spidey in particular comes off as powerful. Guys like Cap and Bucky have looked liked beasts in the movies but a comic book accurate Spidey should be a lot more powerful. We'll see how they handle that.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1944922]That's the upside of Team Stark. They have 2 new character that they want to get over so they'll likely look pretty awesome. Though that likely balances out with it being Steve's movie.
I do hope Spidey in particular comes off as powerful. Guys like Cap and Bucky have looked liked beasts in the movies but a comic book accurate Spidey should be a lot more powerful. We'll see how they handle that.[/QUOTE]
He should be vastly stronger than, Steve or Bucky but he normally holds back when fighting Cap.(hero worship ftw)
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[QUOTE=Francisco;1944919]Black Panther should be a player.. Or a head of state who by his very position in society is denied true love and has to settle for a arranged relationship with another head of state. Monica Lynne should be his impossible love.[/QUOTE]
I think Claremont amd Priest sort of set Storm as his impossible love because their duties kept them apart. Part of me wonders if they maybe should have kept it that way and just teased the possibility of them being together without actually doing it. But that's water under the bridge.
I think with Monica there's an easy story to tell with her being the one T'Challa loves versus something arranged or whatever that better fits what Wakanda wants.
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[QUOTE=Francisco;1944923]He should be vastly stronger than, Steve or Bucky but he normally holds back when fighting Cap.(hero worship ftw)[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm sure everyone will hold back in that fight, except maybe T'Challa. In a way that probably makes him the most dangerous person on the battlefield since he likely doesn't give a crap about anyone on the other side. His own teammates might have to reign him in.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;1944864]True, but I don't think Marvel would give Okoye the push, marketing, etc. she needs to be popular outside of the Black Panther book. I think one writer on the book would do it, but if that writer left, then I think Okoye and all of her development would fall to the wayside...especially when in the past Black Panther characters have either been killed off or have gone into limbo when new Black Panther writers have taken over.
This black woman who would be Black Panther's love interest/queen would have to be someone who can't be placed into limbo under any circumstances, and is relatively "safe" no matter what.
Although Storm is my first choice, a very powerful, black Inhuman female is intriguing...I would just be worried about future Marvel writers not developing her and not making her important to Wakanda, the Black Panther mythos AND the entire Marvel Universe on a permanent basis.[/QUOTE]
Okoye, Ankea, Shuri, etc are all going to blow up too. There is a serious lack of super hero who are black women. I love Storm, if Fox got their heads out of their **** maybe.
All they had to do is make Monica Lynne a Inhuman with powers and kick ass and she would blow. It's over due and the under representation is glaring
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;1944931]Okoye, Ankea, Shuri, etc are all going to blow up too. There is a serious lack of super hero who are black women. I love Storm, if Fox got their heads out of their **** maybe.
All they had to do is make Monica Lynne a Inhuman with powers and kick ass and she would blow. It's over due and the under representation is glaring[/QUOTE]
Though the Midnight Angels are presently antagonists I do wonder if the end game isn't to give T'Challa a couple super hero side kicks. Even though one at least is a murderer the books have gone out of their way to make them sympathetic.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1944908]I am not sure why are you so obsessed with the popularity aspect of the love interest.
Love interests are generally internal anyway. Mary Jane is just now showing up in other books and she is one of the most known love interests in comics.
Supporting cast is there to support the lead. IF the lead goes into limbo land, then the supporting cast goes with it. That is true across about 99% of the time.
And if your criteria is "bankable, non limbo land females" that leaves you with like Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, She-Hulk, and a few others.
And really, I don't want someone else in control of T'challa's potential queen. It just sets up future storylines where it all goes to hell.[/QUOTE]
I am "obsessed" with the popularity of the love interest because as I've said so many times before in this thread, if the Black Panther book gets cancelled and we don't have access to T'Challa, we can still keep up with Wakanda by his popular love interest giving the readers and in-universe people updates about T'Challa and Wakanda.
And I want the love interest to be better than Mary Jane, or Lois Lane, or Jane Foster, or Pepper Potts...a woman who can stand on her own and doesn't need the Black Panther book in order to survive.
And Black Widow, Scarlet Witch and She-Hulk are no-gos for me, because I am "obsessed" with heterosexual black couples/relationships. We've already got a lot of comic book writers so quick to throw non-black women at black male characters and throw non-black men at black female characters, just like other media are quick to do in a concerted effort to keep black male characters and black female characters apart from one another. It's a cliche now.
And again, Marvel needs to learn to share their characters, just like Marvel Studios and Sony are learning to share their characters. And you may not want someone else in control of T'Challa's potential queen, but it will also be bad if a woman created solely for the Black Panther books gets created and gets all of this wonderful set-up, becomes a powerful Wakandan queen or powerful love interest for T'Challa, and then she gets killed off or placed in limbo if the book gets cancelled and no other writer wants to write her. Or what if she gets written by other writers, but gets chumped out and treated like a joke because she's not popular enough and therefore gets very little respect.
That's not good for future storylines, either.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1944912]both are team iron man....[/QUOTE]
well if its anything like the comic it might not stay that way
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[QUOTE=XPac;1944926]I think Claremont amd Priest sort of set Storm as his impossible love because their duties kept them apart. Part of me wonders if they maybe should have kept it that way and just teased the possibility of them being together without actually doing it. But that's water under the bridge.
I think with Monica there's an easy story to tell with her being the one T'Challa loves versus something arranged or whatever that better fits what Wakanda wants.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I agree. But I'd like Monica to be retrofitted into a high level politician (U.S. Secretary or a senator) or something like that instead of a Jazz singer though. How would Wakandas react to their king literally sleeping with the enemy?
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1944911]Back to Aquaman because it fits...
If you want Tchalla to have a queen with super powers... it needs to come from his own Mythos.
Just like Mera.[/QUOTE]
[B]I said it a few pages back when someone mentioned a Wakandan based lover interest that would be a superhero and have mystical power and how that could work too. There are a ton of was to tackle it. Wakandan based love interest that would always be part of the BP franchise, only issue is unless they were very well liked they probably wouldn't be shown anywhere else, Bp would pop up other other books bit not the love interest most likely. An inhuman African love interest could work too but unless they already have one it's the same issue as the Wakandan based love interest in that they have to be well received otherwise they arent gonna be used outside BP. Then Storm for obvious reasons, if x office got in board with it then they have another avenue to work some stories into and since xmen is popular and bp is blowing up, it could help both. It brings the most powerful couple together again and keeps the legacy of Hudlin alive. But the downaide is of course x office pulling a AvX again. So all 3 can work. It's just whether or not the traction would get moving. It would be interesting to see what storm and T'Challas kids turned out to be given the watchers prediction[/B]
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;1944939]I am "obsessed" with the popularity of the love interest because as I've said so many times before in this thread, if the Black Panther book gets cancelled and we don't have access to T'Challa, we can still keep up with Wakanda by his popular love interest giving the readers and in-universe people updates about T'Challa and Wakanda.
And I want the love interest to be better than Mary Jane, or Lois Lane, or Jane Foster, or Pepper Potts...a woman who can stand on her own and doesn't need the Black Panther book in order to survive.
And Black Widow, Scarlet Wict and She-Hulk are no-gos for me, because I am "obsessed" with heterosexual black couples/relationships.
And again, Marvel needs to learn to share their characters, just like Marvel Studios and Sony are learning to share their characters. And you may not want someone else in control of T'Challa's potential queen, but it will also be bad if a woman created solely for the Black Panther books gets created and gets all of this wonderful set-up, becomes a powerful Wakandan queen or powerful love interest for T'Challa, and then she gets killed off or placed in limbo if the book gets cancelled and no other writer wants to write her.
That's not good for future storylines, either.[/QUOTE]
You are expecting something that maybe 1 couple has (JJ and Cage). And a lot off other couples manage ok-ish for comic book standards.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1944949][B]I said it a few pages back when someone mentioned a Wakandan based lover interest that would be a superhero and have mystical power and how that could work too. There are a ton of was to tackle it. Wakandan based love interest that would always be part of the BP franchise, only issue is unless they were very well liked they probably wouldn't be shown anywhere else, Bp would pop up other other books bit not the love interest most likely. An inhuman African love interest could work too but unless they already have one it's the same issue as the Wakandan based love interest in that they have to be well received otherwise they arent gonna be used outside BP. Then Storm for obvious reasons, if x office got in board with it then they have another avenue to work some stories into and since xmen is popular and bp is blowing up, it could help both. It brings the most powerful couple together again and keeps the legacy of Hudlin alive. But the downaide is of course x office pulling a AvX again. So all 3 can work. It's just whether or not the traction would get moving. It would be interesting to see what storm and T'Challas kids turned out to be given the watchers prediction[/B][/QUOTE]
They could easily add a Wakanda inhuman (maybe even an already established character gets hit by the mist when it comes through) or an Waknada Sorceress (there really aren't a lot of magic characters and magic's kinda big right now) if they wanted to go the super powered queen route.
Love interests stay in house. the ones that dont, are generally just flings anyway.
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With what i said earlier about his love interest ideally (for me) being a prestigious wakandan woman with mystic arts abilities... yes, an afrikan/wakandan "Mera" in a nutshell, is essentially what i'm envisining. Whoever the love interest (Rambeau, a modified/inhumaned Lynn, a mystical wakandan woman, etc) it would be a winning lottery ticket of exposure and adoration, like becoming the Ciara to T'Challa's Russell Wilson.
I'd prefer that glory be reserved for a wakandan woman. And like Boseman alluded to, he can still have that James Bond swag in smooth talks or friendly flirtations with his avenger companions or whoever.
edit - i don't know what else there is to say about storm. it could've/should've/would've... but isn't, and likely wouldn't be for a number of unfortunate (if not dumb) reasons :shrugs:
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[QUOTE=Francisco;1944947]Yeah, I agree. But I'd like Monica to be retrofitted into a high level politician (U.S. Secretary or a senator) or something like that instead of a Jazz singer though. How would Wakandas react to their king literally sleeping with the enemy?[/QUOTE]
US isn't the enemy per say but yeah ... that could be an issue. And we did actually see Wakanda reaction to T'Challa being married to the enemy in AvX. Wife became ex wife so I guess they take that seriously.
Not sure they can credible retcon Monica that way in the comics but I'll wager they do for the movies.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;1944940]well if its anything like the comic it might not stay that way[/QUOTE]
True. I potentially see a high possibility of defection on team Stark from several people.
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[QUOTE=Francisco;1944914]I've always been against the notion that Superman needs Lois humanize him. Clark is humanized by the Kents and the fact that he saves people's lives and as a journalist writes about human issues and has human friends and lives among humans. He could date a Mermaid and still be the son of a Kansas farmer. Does Thor needs a human love interest to be relatable? Does the Silver Surfer? Why it is Superman the only one "trapped" in a lame relationship that goes nowhere. End rant lol[/QUOTE]
Superman doesn't still live with his parents. The folks Supes saves are just people.
The only persons he ever interacted regularly with on a human level are/were Lois and Jimmy.
Take them away and you might as well be writing about Apollo or Hyperion: dudes who are just super 24/7.
Both Thor and Silver Surfer have had human love interests. Namor also.
In every case, removing the human love interest resulted in a dude walking around in costume all day waiting for something to fight.
Jane Foster stuck around in the comics longer than Sif ever did.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1944913]Yeah I think the Storm experiment sort of showed us the downsides of a very popular female character acting as a love interest.
It probably is simpler to just have one that's solely under the BP writers on so there's no potential conflict of interest. BP is probably more popular at this point than any marvel female anyways.[/QUOTE]
There would have been no downsides if the maturity level of some writers was would it should have been. I'm not sure why so many people want to act as though it was the "sharing of franchises" that was the problem, and not the purposeful, underhanded and unprofessional writing and attitudes of comic book writers and editors. Let's be honest about all of this.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;1944998]There would have been no downsides if the maturity level of some writers was would it should have been. I'm not sure why so many people want to act as though the problem was that it was the "sharing of franchises" that was the problem, and not the purposeful, underhanded and unprofessional writing and attitudes of comic book writers.[/QUOTE]
It can be both.
and that isn't going to change.
Storm is gone, this thread needs to get oover it
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1944951]You are expecting something that maybe 1 couple has (JJ and Cage). And a lot off other couples manage ok-ish for comic book standards.[/QUOTE]
An interracial couple, which goes back to one of my other points. And the other couples who manage ok-ish are the white ones, like Superman and Wonder Woman and Starlord and Kitty Pryde.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;1944998]There would have been no downsides if the maturity level of some writers was would it should have been. I'm not sure why so many people want to act as though it was the "sharing of franchises" that was the problem, and not the purposeful, underhanded and unprofessional writing and attitudes of comic book writers and editors. Let's be honest about all of this.[/QUOTE]
Really I think the problem at the time was simply that the X-men writer wanted Storm for something else and the BP writer didn't give a dam. Ultimately things change. One set of writers might want something different than the next. That's just how it. And the possibility doubles if you're dealing with 2 franchises.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1945001]It can be both.
and that isn't going to change.
Storm is gone, this thread needs to get oover it[/QUOTE]
For now. But things change back and forth. They always do.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;1945003]An interracial couple, which goes back to one of my other points. And the other couples who manage ok-ish are the white ones, like Superman and Wonder Woman and Starlord and Kitty Pryde.[/QUOTE]
Couse I doubt that WW/Supes or Kitty/Starlord will fair any better than BP/Storm in the long run. Super hero couples usually don't last.
I think Luke and Jessica are more the exception than the rule.
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[QUOTE=MoneySpider;1945005]For now. But things change back and forth. They always do.[/QUOTE]
If Storm and T'Challa were just dating I could see more if a back and forth. But I don't know if you want to revisit a failed marriage ... that's a bigger messier can of worms to open.