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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676405]I'm curious. How do you suppose that Lumarians had a thriving culture long before Wakanda was in fact Wakanda, but somehow T'Challa rules the land and humans have taken over the planet?[/QUOTE]
The Celestials. See Beware of Geeks timeline a few pages back.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3676388]Damnit, you beat me.
But, in reading that real quick, I remembered this panel...
[img]https://i.imgur.com/0nqe4uy.jpg[/img]
Man, Priest could write.
As much as Priest wrote calm and collected, 10 steps ahead T'challa... he brought in emotion when it was warranted and it hit HARD in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]But some would have you believe that Priest didn't write a humanized T'Challa.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Cville;3676368]Got it for you. I think these are the two being discussed.
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/zCg2fdDjrR6UJkty4wDur2ihAFw-TjsuPxzxEATxCs-SnhlTpMx-MlwkIRDn2ENZooY94OG3DDLA=s1600[/img]
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/DLqvlGEqh6oPiuQFpG5DA6koq7FXG2Ir3sdweThmpU3pSWkUsEHsq9J3St5aJcln3swFw4-rqoOh=s1600[/img][/QUOTE]
Thanks. I appreciate you saving me from having to look up the specific issue and panels again.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3676401][COLOR="#000080"]Or the reason is that the majority of the people of Wakanda are quite happy with their government.
And we've seen in Wakanda that most tribes do keep their own traditional identities so it's not as though they are forced to believe in Bast or give up their tribal identity.
Can you prove that the herb is still a vital part of the challenge?
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
And I'm sure most are happy with T'Challa. But again, even those who are might also want the right to vote for their leadership and have a say in government. That's the aspect of it you are overlooking. What rationale person wouldn't?
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[QUOTE=Cville;3676368]Got it for you. I think these are the two being discussed.
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/zCg2fdDjrR6UJkty4wDur2ihAFw-TjsuPxzxEATxCs-SnhlTpMx-MlwkIRDn2ENZooY94OG3DDLA=s1600[/img]
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/DLqvlGEqh6oPiuQFpG5DA6koq7FXG2Ir3sdweThmpU3pSWkUsEHsq9J3St5aJcln3swFw4-rqoOh=s1600[/img][/QUOTE]
Yes, exactly this. Thanks a bunch. Clearly those are some heavy implications. And they open the door Coates' story. It's just so funny that Storm is around in this issue too helping T'Challa to protect all of the citizens of Wakanda. And I still maintain that this story has many of the elements required for the proper foundation of s2. I understand that most don't like it. But to dismiss it as completely meaningless in the grand scheme is a bit delusional.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676378]Lolol I'll give you that. I'll have to reread all of Hudlin's run. [/quote]
I'll save you the trouble and tell you it never happened.
Hudlin's run was barely in Wakanda and when it was, T'challa never, ever, ever, ever brought in outside help. The closest that came was asking Tony what the heck Killmonger was doing in Niganda. [quote]
The point still remains I never explicitly said Hudlin brought other heroes to Wakanda to save it. I acknowledged that Coates did. I did say that Coates picked up on the plot thread of brining in other heroes period. The fact remains that every issue after the marriage could be seen as Hudlin bringing in another her to share panel space and taking room away from T'Challa. That happened.[/QUOTE]
Hudlin never brought in other heroes to help Wakanda.
And, the Storm sharing panel space post marriage actually wasn't special. Outside of the initial Who is the Black Panther arc, which was initially supposed to be non-canon... Hudlin routinely brought in other heroes into the Black Panther book. Hudlin sought to make T'challa important by putting him with other heroes constantly.
Wild Kingdom was the X-men.
House of M were x-men and Black Bolt.
Bad Mutha had Luke Cage, Shang, Blade, Voodoo, Monica
Bride of the Panther obviously had Storm but it also involved a litany of other heroes. Wolverine, other x-men, the bachelor party group, the bacherlette party group, the wedding had the whole MU
Civil War obviously involved the honeymoon tour... meaning Inhumans, Doom, Namor, and then the actual CW so Iron Man, Cap, Rhodey, and the whole resistance.
Four the Hard Way and Little Green Men involved the New Fantastic Four.
Back to Africa had Monica and Stark
Hudlin's only contained arcs were WitBP and Deadliest of the Species (which had Storm).
Priest had numerous guest appearances. Liss had numerous guest appearances.
The difference is, T'challa still drove the books. Despite surrounded by the who-who's of Marvel, he was the star of the book. He made the decision, he punched the bad guys. That isn't true with Coates Season 2. That story was about Storm.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3676444]And I'm sure most are happy with T'Challa. But again, even those who are might also want the right to vote for their leadership and have a say in government. That's the aspect of it you are overlooking. What rationale person wouldn't?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Then make the challenge if you're unhappy with your current ruler. Train, acquire MGH and then challenge for leadership.
And again, elected officials are supposed to serve the will of the people but in reality that doesn't always work out that way.
[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3676461][COLOR="#000080"]Then make the challenge if you're unhappy with your current ruler. Train, acquire MGH and then challenge for leadership.
And again, elected officials are supposed to serve the will of the people but in reality that doesn't always work out that way.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
The fact that this is the only legit way to change leadership is to defeat a meta and consume a poisonous herb is exactly why voting probably sounds good by comparrison.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676446]Yes, exactly this. Thanks a bunch. Clearly those are some heavy implications. And they open the door Coates' story. It's just so funny that Storm is around in this issue too helping T'Challa to protect all of the citizens of Wakanda. And I still maintain that this story has many of the elements required for the proper foundation of s2. I understand that most don't like it. But to dismiss it as completely meaningless in the grand scheme is a bit delusional.[/QUOTE]
No she doesn't. She spends most of her time with the deviant child and talking to Tchalla. The only time she uses her powers from anything besides basic flight is when she gets mind swapped.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3676472]No she doesn't. She spends most of her time with the deviant child and talking to Tchalla. The only time she uses her powers from anything besides basic flight is when she gets mind swapped.[/QUOTE]
I think the only time Storm ever actively defended Wakanda in a Black Panther book was See Wakanda and Die.
Unless we count Doom War as a BP book... I prefer to think of it as as a Doom book lol.
I could be wrong here, shooting off the hip I bit. But I don't think I am.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3676468]The fact that this is the only legit way to change leadership is to defeat a meta and consume a poisonous herb is exactly why voting probably sounds good by comparrison.[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't to a warrior oriented people who believe their leader is the protector of the nation. Mr. Worf challenge Galron during a meeting and nobody compained. Lol
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[QUOTE=XPac;3676468]The fact that this is the only legit way to change leadership is to defeat a meta and consume a poisonous herb is exactly why voting probably sounds good by comparrison.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Again, the herb is no longer involved and if it is, we don't know that it's poisonous to all Wakandans. And elections can always run the risk of voting in an idiot.
[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Cville;3676479]It wouldn't to a warrior oriented people who believe their leader is the protector of the nation. Mr. Worf challenge Galron during a meeting and nobody compained. Lol[/QUOTE]
To some maybe. But again we still get revolts and coups, the last of which led to legit reform. Point being a system that might have made sense in the past might not make as much sense now. Systems of government have evolved overtime for a reason.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3676485][COLOR="#000080"]Again, the herb is no longer involved and if it is, we don't know that it's poisonous to all Wakandans. And elections can always run the risk of voting in an idiot.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Until we see another sucessfull challenge, we can only go by what we saw with Killmonger. That's all we have to go on since haven't gotten a sucessfull challenge since.
And as for voting ... can you honestly say our would prefer it if you didn't have the right to vote? Because again, no government is perfect but that doesn't mean people don't want or should have a say.
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There is a page missing, but this is Hickmans origin story.
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/TnFqx2HFd3xcrXTX61z_ekFlk4NdM-9tRwwixcNSoRXqmCK9kR8nueG-btD0rtiosQVTCxAf-eE=s1600[/img]
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/IItmZSbatrhS4U2IwkogW1R3LsnfyNaj1lOUZbkERhHaDHGoU10lzjHMEIxOgrPqM50DiTGVnEk=s1600[/img]
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/pAm_4iKZn9vRTLJZKPt2ANq-6sD1yFmR1t5smQbGmQ2ZM4RJBClzawlDhXJ1jZ-gTrXxQ8E_-_I=s1600[/img]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3676495]Until we see another sucessfull challenge, we can only go by what we saw with Killmonger. That's all we have to go on since haven't gotten a sucessfull challenge since.
And as for voting ... can you honestly say our would prefer it if you didn't have the right to vote? Because again, no government is perfect but that doesn't mean people don't want or should have a say.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]You're right, we can only go by what we saw with Killmonger and it was only poisonous to him.
I didn't say I didn't want the right to vote. We're talking about Wakanda and what the majority want their gov't to be like. [/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3676495]Until we see another sucessfull challenge, we can only go by what we saw with Killmonger. That's all we have to go on since haven't gotten a sucessfull challenge since.
.[/QUOTE]
Naw.
Shuri's taken it (obviously).
Peter took it and was fine.
S'yan recommended Storm become Black Panther (so she would have had to take the herb). So unless we think Uncle S'yan wanted Storm in a coma....
And apparently Zawadi took the herb waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day but I can't find it on panel yet. Must have been in an encyclopedia or something so *shrugs*
So far, Killmonger seems to be the outlier.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3676451]I'll save you the trouble and tell you it never happened.
Hudlin's run was barely in Wakanda and when it was, T'challa never, ever, ever, ever brought in outside help. The closest that came was asking Tony what the heck Killmonger was doing in Niganda.
Hudlin never brought in other heroes to help Wakanda.
And, the Storm sharing panel space post marriage actually wasn't special. Outside of the initial Who is the Black Panther arc, which was initially supposed to be non-canon... Hudlin routinely brought in other heroes into the Black Panther book. Hudlin sought to make T'challa important by putting him with other heroes constantly.
Wild Kingdom was the X-men.
House of M were x-men and Black Bolt.
Bad Mutha had Luke Cage, Shang, Blade, Voodoo, Monica
Bride of the Panther obviously had Storm but it also involved a litany of other heroes. Wolverine, other x-men, the bachelor party group, the bacherlette party group, the wedding had the whole MU
Civil War obviously involved the honeymoon tour... meaning Inhumans, Doom, Namor, and then the actual CW so Iron Man, Cap, Rhodey, and the whole resistance.
Four the Hard Way and Little Green Men involved the New Fantastic Four.
Back to Africa had Monica and Stark
Hudlin's only contained arcs were WitBP and Deadliest of the Species (which had Storm).
Priest had numerous guest appearances. Liss had numerous guest appearances.
The difference is, T'challa still drove the books. Despite surrounded by the who-who's of Marvel, he was the star of the book. He made the decision, he punched the bad guys. That isn't true with Coates Season 2. That story was about Storm.[/QUOTE]
I'll give you all of this even though you essentially arguing semantics.I'm talking about different plot points or story beats that show up across multiple runs. No Hudlin, didn't have other heroes protecting Wakanda. Ok cool. That doesn't change the idea that there were multiple heroes that showed up and took away valuable panel space from T'Challa. That happened. Hudlin had a bunch of guest appearances. This happened. I'm pointing out that Coates followed that same formula despite his preparation techniques. You're arguing against that main point without offering up proof to debunk it entirely. You do realize that you're not disproving my argument, right?
[QUOTE=Cville;3676472]No she doesn't. She spends most of her time with the deviant child and talking to Tchalla. The only time she uses her powers from anything besides basic flight is when she gets mind swapped.[/QUOTE]
Storm still now has history of helping T'Challa solve problems involving an indigenous population of creatures that predate humans, right? Is anyone gonna be objective (other than Mike Murdock) and admit to these things being put to paper long before Coates got his hands on the mythos?
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3676504]Naw.
Shuri's taken it (obviously).
Peter took it and was fine.
S'yan recommended Storm become Black Panther (so she would have had to take the herb). So unless we think Uncle S'yan wanted Storm in a coma....
And apparently Zawadi took the herb waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day but I can't find it on panel yet. Must have been in an encyclopedia or something so *shrugs*
So far, Killmonger seems to be the outlier.[/QUOTE]
Shuri is a part of the Royal family, who are supposed to be immune. And part of Peters power is actually a degree of resistance to being poisoned.
I don't disagree that the issue is nuddy, but nothing has directly retconned what Priest wrote on panel yet.
But even if for arguments sake the herb isn't poisonous he went into a coma after taking it. If someone poisoned him independent of the herb the end result is still the same ... the contest is rigged.
.which again isn't necessarily a bad thing. Again, the MCU shows us that.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676508]I'll give you all of this even though you essentially arguing semantics.I'm talking about different plot points or story beats that show up across multiple runs. No Hudlin, didn't have other heroes protecting Wakanda. Ok cool. That doesn't change the idea that there were multiple heroes that showed up and took away valuable panel space from T'Challa. That happened. Hudlin had a bunch of guest appearances. This happened. I'm pointing out that Coates followed that same formula despite his preparation techniques. You're arguing against that main point without offering up proof to debunk it entirely. You do realize that you're not disproving my argument, right?[/quote]
Everytime I disprove an argument, you move an argument. Everytime I ask for scans, you can't produce them.
and I addressed the "multiple heroes" thing
[QUOTE=Literally what you quoted][B]The difference is, T'challa still drove the books. Despite surrounded by the who-who's of Marvel, he was the star of the book. He made the decision, he punched the bad guys. That isn't true with Coates Season 2. That story was about Storm.[/B][/QUOTE]
[quote]
Storm still now has history of helping T'Challa solve problems involving an indigenous population of creatures that predate humans, right? Is anyone gonna be objective (other than Mike Murdock) and admit to these things being put to paper long before Coates got his hands on the mythos?[/QUOTE]
How did Storm help solve the problem during Sturm Und Drang? Be specific. Being around =/= helping T'challa solve problems. I don't remember her being invited to the super secret meeting between Kings (and Ross). She didn't help stop Klaw. She didn't adopt the child. She wasn't in Lemuria with Ross.
I think she babysitted for a second?
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676508]I'll give you all of this even though you essentially arguing semantics.I'm talking about different plot points or story beats that show up across multiple runs. No Hudlin, didn't have other heroes protecting Wakanda. Ok cool. That doesn't change the idea that there were multiple heroes that showed up and took away valuable panel space from T'Challa. That happened. Hudlin had a bunch of guest appearances. This happened. I'm pointing out that Coates followed that same formula despite his preparation techniques. You're arguing against that main point without offering up proof to debunk it entirely. You do realize that you're not disproving my argument, right?
Storm still now has history of helping T'Challa solve problems involving an indigenous population of creatures that predate humans, right? Is anyone gonna be objective (other than Mike Murdock) and admit to these things being put to paper long before Coates got his hands on the mythos?[/QUOTE]
The argument is should Coates have had ancient WKs throw the people native to Wakanda off their lands.
If the battlefield you're standing on is there were other species in the planet before humans, nobody is arguing against that.
Wakanda didn't throw the Deviants off the surface, that was the Celestials by flooding the planet. And for 8,000 years they chose to live in the ocean.
What Coates did was unnecessary mostly designed out of self proclaimed pessimism, spite for wish fulfilment fantasy, and the need to give Storm a build up.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676508]I'll give you all of this even though you essentially arguing semantics.I'm talking about different plot points or story beats that show up across multiple runs. No Hudlin, didn't have other heroes protecting Wakanda. Ok cool. That doesn't change the idea that there were multiple heroes that showed up and took away valuable panel space from T'Challa. That happened. Hudlin had a bunch of guest appearances. This happened. I'm pointing out that Coates followed that same formula despite his preparation techniques. You're arguing against that main point without offering up proof to debunk it entirely. You do realize that you're not disproving my argument, right?
Storm still now has history of helping T'Challa solve problems involving an indigenous population of creatures that predate humans, right? Is anyone gonna be objective (other than Mike Murdock) and admit to these things being put to paper long before Coates got his hands on the mythos?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]BB you have to look at it this way. Having guest heroes in your title is okay. Having guest stars doing all the heavy lifting in your title while you do very little is problematic.
I don't have a problem with Storm appearing in BP because they have history and they actually work great together when written well.
But Coates problem is this. He brought in lame villains to challenge T'Challa and Wakanda and then had T'Challa outsource his responsibilities to deal with these lame villains.
What did Thunderball do that T'Challa couldn't have done 10 times in his sleep? Coates brought in his own version of The Crew to deal with some mystery that no one cared about and was never relevant. He wrote a great Storm and gave her very good development that quite honestly she wasn't getting in an X-title. He brought in a seldom used X-villain as the main bad guy to threaten Wakanda and had someone else get the majority of the credit for defeating him.
It's as if the X-Men were fighting the The Sinister Six and losing only to have T'Challa show up, beat them and then reveal the big bad was Klaw who T'Challa then takes out with a little doo-hickey.
[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3676526]Everytime I disprove an argument, you move an argument. Everytime I ask for scans, you can't produce them.
and I addressed the "multiple heroes" thing
How did Storm help solve the problem during Sturm Und Drang? Be specific. Being around =/= helping T'challa solve problems. I don't remember her being invited to the super secret meeting between Kings (and Ross). She didn't help stop Klaw. She didn't adopt the child. She wasn't in Lemuria with Ross.
I think she babysitted for a second?[/QUOTE]
Lolol oh god. I started out drawing parallels between Coates work and that of Priest and Hudlin. I'll concede that Hudlin never brought in other heroes to protect Wakanda. I'll give you that even though the language I used never suggested it. I said Coates did. And I said thats a plot point he picked up from Hudlin, I should have been more specific because I was strictly talking about other heroes showing up. There were multiple guest appearances. You are still arguing semantics and your looking for me to provide scans for something I never outright suggested was in paper. Do I really need to go back and highlight my entire argument that started with a response to Mr. M? Your talking about disproving an argument I've made when you haven't done anything of the sort. The implications I'm speaking about are still there. The plot points I'm talking about are still there. The glaring similarities are still there. You just aren't honest enough with yourself to admit it.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3676550][COLOR="#000080"]BB you have to look at it this way. Having guest heroes in your title is okay. Having guest stars doing all the heavy lifting in your title while you do very little is problematic.
I don't have a problem with Storm appearing in BP because they have history and they actually work great together when written well.
But Coates problem is this. He brought in lame villains to challenge T'Challa and Wakanda and then had T'Challa outsource his responsibilities to deal with these lame villains.
What did Thunderball do that T'Challa couldn't have done 10 times in his sleep? Coates brought in his own version of The Crew to deal with some mystery that no one cared about and was never relevant. He wrote a great Storm and gave her very good development that quite honestly she wasn't getting in an X-title. He brought in a seldom used X-villain as the main bad guy to threaten Wakanda and had someone lese get the majority of the credit for defeating him.
It's as if the X-Men were fighting the The Sinister Six and losing only to have T'Challa show up, beat them and then reveal the big bad was Klaw who T'Challa then takes out with a little doo-hickey.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I totally get your point, bruh. And you are very close to the truth that I was looking for. My argument was never how they went about bringing in multiple other heroes. That's what my comment about the formula was about. The fact remains that there were still multiple guest appearances in both runs. That's some thing that can be proven. That happened. That and a lot of the other things I brought up happened. I never made mention of whether or not they were done WELL or to anyone's liking. The fact that they happened and are not some wholly original idea of Coates' has been my main argument. The fact that no one other than Mike Murdock mentioned or admitted to this is exactly the point. That's what I meant by objective truths.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676552]Lolol oh god. I started out drawing parallels between Coates work and that of Priest and Hudlin. I'll concede that Hudlin never brought in other heroes to protect Wakanda. I'll give you that even though the language I used never suggested it. I said Coates did. And I said thats a plot point he picked up from Hudlin, I should have been more specific because I was strictly talking about other heroes showing up. There were multiple guest appearances. You are still arguing semantics and your looking for me to provide scans for something I never outright suggested was in paper. Do I really need to go back and highlight my entire argument that started with a response to Mr. M? Your talking about disproving an argument I've made when you haven't done anything of the sort. The implications I'm speaking about are still there. The plot points I'm talking about are still there. The glaring similarities are still there. You just aren't honest enough with yourself to admit it.[/QUOTE]
How am I misinterpreting this...
[QUOTE]Storm still now has history of helping T'Challa solve problems involving an indigenous population of creatures that predate humans, right?[/QUOTE]
I am directly quoting clear sentences asking you to post objective evidence to prove your point.
If I am misinterpreting whatever argument you are making now, please do repost your thesis. Because it seems to have de-evolved to, "other writers used other heroes too!"
And you keep saying "Matt Murdock is the only one!" when others actually went back and found and posted the scans you couldn't be bothered to look for. And they didn't even support your argument considering, according to a usually very accurate BoG, the Celestials dealt with the Lemurians in Africa.
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[B]Much appreciated MoS and cville
I was going to dive into more conversation but it's really pointless.
As for MoS your point about Priest. Hell yeah he could bring the emotion when he needed it and humanize Tchalla. Same with Hudlin.
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/4JxH5xJMT6Wwt25Gq6RAM-NR14QePWSgfxUbwX9GdSEoceeY4NAFHIdIjo1Eir43b40pHPVx9O87=s1600[/Img]
[/B]
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To clarify...
The Deviants had a GLOBAL empire. Their capital was on a now-sunken continent in the Pacific.
(This is why you don't piss off 300-ft tall space gods ;) )
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3676580]To clarify...
The Deviants had a GLOBAL empire. Their capital was on a now-sunken continent in the Pacific.
(This is why you don't piss off 300-ft tall space gods ;) )[/QUOTE]
So you're saying that the Deviant was speaking generally when taking to Tchalla? Not Wakanda specifically?
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[QUOTE=Cville;3676589]So you're saying that the Deviant was speaking generally when taking to Tchalla? Not Wakanda specifically?[/QUOTE]
Correct. The Deviants were never depicted, to my knowledge, as starting in Wakanda.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3676593]Correct. The Deviants were never depicted, to my knowledge, as starting in Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]No, they weren't.
More evidence for this can be found in the original Eternals series from the 70's as well as Thor #287-300.[/COLOR]
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And, for the specific story of the sinking of Lemuria: [I]Amazing Spider-Man Annual #23[/I], part of the ATLANTIS ATTACKS crossover.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3676559]How am I misinterpreting this...
I am directly quoting clear sentences asking you to post objective evidence to prove your point.
If I am misinterpreting whatever argument you are making now, please do repost your thesis. Because it seems to have de-evolved to, "other writers used other heroes too!"
And you keep saying "Matt Murdock is the only one!" when others actually went back and found and posted the scans you couldn't be bothered to look for. And they didn't even support your argument considering, according to a usually very accurate BoG, the Celestials dealt with the Lemurians in Africa.[/QUOTE]
Issue #26 of Priest's Black Panther quite literally has Storm helping out with a deviant child of one of the Lumarians. Lord Ghuar is clearly seen discussing this child with T'Challa. The same child that Storm spent the better part of an afternoon singing to try and get him to come out of hiding. How does that not now establish Storm as helping T'Challa in two different instances to rectify problems that arise out of conflict with creatures that predate prehistoric Wakandan man? You keep trying to debunk my arguments without understanding what it is that I'm actually saying. It's ok. A lot of people do that. It doesn't make it any less fun for me tho.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3676368]Got it for you. I think these are the two being discussed.
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/zCg2fdDjrR6UJkty4wDur2ihAFw-TjsuPxzxEATxCs-SnhlTpMx-MlwkIRDn2ENZooY94OG3DDLA=s1600[/img]
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/DLqvlGEqh6oPiuQFpG5DA6koq7FXG2Ir3sdweThmpU3pSWkUsEHsq9J3St5aJcln3swFw4-rqoOh=s1600[/img][/QUOTE]
And if the Lumarians weren't native to those lands then why does Lord Ghaur scoff at T'Challa's use of "his lands?"
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676638]And if the Lumarians weren't native to those lands then why does Lord Ghaur scoff at T'Challa's use of "his lands?"[/QUOTE]
Beware of Geeks says they had a global empires. He probably thinks the entire surface is his. My guess is he would say that to any human he met. Lol
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676638]And if the Lumarians weren't native to those lands then why does Lord Ghaur scoff at T'Challa's use of "his lands?"[/QUOTE]
Because Ghaur is a supreme douche who sees the entire surface world at one and the same?
Remember that his outrage here is all an act to protect his political power, to keep his affair hidden.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676558]I totally get your point, bruh. And you are very close to the truth that I was looking for. My argument was never how they went about bringing in multiple other heroes. That's what my comment about the formula was about. The fact remains that there were still multiple guest appearances in both runs. That's some thing that can be proven. That happened. That and a lot of the other things I brought up happened. I never made mention of whether or not they were done WELL or to anyone's liking. The fact that they happened and are not some wholly original idea of Coates' has been my main argument. The fact that no one other than Mike Murdock mentioned or admitted to this is exactly the point. That's what I meant by objective truths.[/QUOTE]
What part of other BP writers having guest stars featured in the BP solo but not overshadowing T'Challa in his own book" are you failing to conprehend?
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676633]Issue #26 of Priest's Black Panther quite literally has Storm helping out with a deviant child of one of the Lumarians. Lord Ghuar is clearly seen discussing this child with T'Challa. The same child that Storm spent the better part of an afternoon singing to try and get him to come out of hiding. How does that not now establish Storm as helping T'Challa in two different instances to rectify problems that arise out of conflict with creatures that predate prehistoric Wakandan man? [/QUOTE]
I actually mentioned, "Storm helped solve the problem by babysitting."
I, personally, don't consider that solving the problem of Sturm Und Drang. The nature of the conflict wasn't established at that time. to solve the problem, T'challa went to Doom, Namor, and Magneto.
But, I guess I can concede she was... involved twice. Babysat once and deified once. Quite the extremes lol.
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676638]And if the Lumarians weren't native to those lands then why does Lord Ghaur scoff at T'Challa's use of "his lands?"[/QUOTE]
Judging from his attitude in the Priest story and information provided by BoG and Marvel2100.... he considered all land "his lands."
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3676660]
Judging from his attitude in the Priest story and information provided by BoG and Marvel2100.... he considered all land "his lands."[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]He would think that exactly.
The Deviants did not exist before humans. They, along with the Eternals were created by using human DNA from prehistoric man.
The Deviants wanted to use mankind as slaves and rule the world while the Eternals tried to protect man and prepare for the return of the Celestials.
Lord Ghaur made the statement not because Deviants originated in Wakanda but because they considered themselves conquerors and enslaved men and believed themselves the ruler of Earth.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3676659]What part of other BP writers having guest stars featured in the BP solo but not overshadowing T'Challa in his own book" are you failing to conprehend?[/QUOTE]
Again, this isn't about how anyone feels the story was handled. My point is to call attention to clear and present misconceptions that don't quite stand up to scrutiny. One of my points was about how I always read that Coates ignores continuity. That is not the case when you look at the facts. I don't care about anybody's feelings on the matter. I'm talking about objective truths, Reggie. Coates was following up on established continuity. I was able to understand this simply by rereading my hardback Worlds Apart trade. He may not have followed up on the continuity that many may have wished for him to, but his story is directly informed by both Priest and Hudlin. I don't know how else to better highlight that point. I'm not sure how anyone could disagree with these points I've presented. But if someone is still unclear about my message I can explain further.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3676788]Again, this isn't about how anyone feels the story was handled. My point is to call attention to clear and present misconceptions that don't quite stand up to scrutiny. One of my points was about how I always read that Coates ignores continuity. That is not the case when you look at the facts. I don't care about anybody's feelings on the matter. I'm talking about objective truths, Reggie. Coates was following up on established continuity. I was able to understand this simply by rereading my hardback Worlds Apart trade. He may not have followed up on the continuity that many may have wished for him to, but his story is directly informed by both Priest and Hudlin. I don't know how else to better highlight that point. I'm not sure how anyone could disagree with these points I've presented. But if someone is still unclear about my message I can explain further.[/QUOTE]
MoS, BoG and Marvell2100 have all more than adequately debunked your thoroughly flawed opinion as regards this matter and they"ve actually done so in a solidly informed and objective manner as opposed to you describing folks bringing facts backed up with scans and continuity, as being "deluded."