Without a plot twist, they need to leave. Your theory implies the Originators just went sideways one day and started slaughtering people the same way Coates claimed Shuri did to Atlantis.
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Without a plot twist, they need to leave. Your theory implies the Originators just went sideways one day and started slaughtering people the same way Coates claimed Shuri did to Atlantis.
[QUOTE=Cville;3299296]Without a plot twist, they need to leave. Your theory implies the Originators just went sideways one day and started slaughtering people the same way Coates claimed Shuri did to Atlantis.[/QUOTE]
Again, no they do not need to leave. They can choose to leave if they wish or they can choose to share the land... but the Originators losing the war means the Wakandans don't need to do anything they don't want to do. Wage and war and lose, and you don't get to make that call.
Unless the Originators now can do what they couldn't do in the past and beat Wakanda, whatever they get comes from whatever courtesy T'Challa chooses to extend to them.
[QUOTE=XPac;3299304]Again, no they do not need to leave. They can choose to leave if they wish or they can choose to share the land... but the Originators losing the war means the Wakandans don't need to do anything they don't want to do. Wage and war and lose, and you don't get to make that call.
Unless the Originators now can do what they couldn't do in the past and beat Wakanda, whatever they get comes from whatever courtesy T'Challa chooses to extend to them.[/QUOTE]
Aren't you the one who is happy with the democracy and people having their voices heard? I guess when it comes to the savages of the past Tchalla having ultimate say is okay.
Or is it okay because they are a different species?
[QUOTE=Cville;3299327]Aren't you the one who is happy with the democracy and people having their voices heard? I guess when it comes to the savages of the past Tchalla having ultimate say is okay.
Or is it okay because they are a different species?[/QUOTE]
Democracy gets thrown out the window once you attack someone. That's the price tag you pay by opting for war... decisions get made by your fist, not your voice. And that applies to any species.
If you want things democratically decided, you negotiate with someone... you don't attack them. But again, it's entirely possible T'Challa will be able to negotiate something this time around. We'll see.
[QUOTE=XPac;3299291]They don't NEED to leave. They can CHOOSE to leave if they wish, or they can choose to share... but the Wakandans winning the war basically means they need to do anything they don't wanna do. Again, that's the price of losing the war... you don't get to make that call.
I agree with you in that it's not complicated. The originators went to war, lost, and they don't get a say one way or the other. That's the risk you take when you decide to go to war. It's part of the reason why in a lot of instances declaring war isn't necessarily the best option for either party. But perhaps war can be averted this time around and some sort of peaceful resolution can be made here... we'll see.[/QUOTE]
[B]The problem here, that that the story needs a clear cut bad guy, having this BS "originators were here first then the first Wakandan settlers came in and offended them enough to cause an attack" angle is stupid because it makes Wakanda look like Columbus. There is a reason people outside this thread as well, are making that comparison. It's not exactly the same 100% replica of what happened, but it's close for sure. Settlers come in,
things are fine initially, Those settler's do something to offend the natives of the land, they want to drive them out (rightfully so) they lose and now and out in chains and sent to reservation camps.
It's the same BS as Shuri calling Franklin a slave to Wakanda, that is one of the most offensive things Coates has had said in this series. Wakanda doesn't have or need or use slaves for anything. Yet he has Shuri so casually throwing it out and pretty comfortable using the word, While dismissing a very valid reason for attacking Atlantis (retaliation against a terrorist attack/act of war) as simply waking up on the wrong side of the bed.
There is a reason Tchalla was so appalled when he learned the truth and it's because Coates I'd turning Wakanda into a place to different then the rest of the world, except it's worse now because they chatised the rest of the World for using such method's to achieve what they have and now they are no better. Lee and Kirby's origin story was way better and it should of been left alone or expanded in a much more nuanced way. This whole both sides are Wrong bs happened already in S1 and that ended in such a way it made Tchalla look bad regardless of whatever outcome. This is feel will be the same[/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3299396][B]The problem here, that that the story needs a clear cut bad guy, having this BS "originators were here first then the first Wakandan settlers came in and offended them enough to cause an attack" angle is stupid because it makes Wakanda look like Columbus. There is a reason people outside this thread as well, are making that comparison. It's not exactly the same 100% replica of what happened, but it's close for sure. Settlers come in,
things are fine initially, Those settler's do something to offend the natives of the land, they want to drive them out (rightfully so) they lose and now and out in chains and sent to reservation camps.
It's the same BS as Shuri calling Franklin a slave to Wakanda, that is one of the most offensive things Coates has had said in this series. Wakanda doesn't have or need or use slaves for anything. Yet he has Shuri so casually throwing it out and pretty comfortable using the word, While dismissing a very valid reason for attacking Atlantis (retaliation against a terrorist attack/act of war) as simply waking up on the wrong side of the bed.
There is a reason Tchalla was so appalled when he learned the truth and it's because Coates I'd turning Wakanda into a place to different then the rest of the world, except it's worse now because they chatised the rest of the World for using such method's to achieve what they have and now they are no better. Lee and Kirby's origin story was way better and it should of been left alone or expanded in a much more nuanced way. This whole both sides are Wrong bs happened already in S1 and that ended in such a way it made Tchalla look bad regardless of whatever outcome. This is feel will be the same[/B][/QUOTE]
Why are you wasting your time stating the obvious?
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3299406]Why are you wasting your time stating the obvious?[/QUOTE]
It's snowing where I am, so I have nothing better to do. lol
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3299396][B]The problem here, that that the story needs a clear cut bad guy, having this BS "originators were here first then the first Wakandan settlers came in and offended them enough to cause an attack" angle is stupid because it makes Wakanda look like Columbus. There is a reason people outside this thread as well, are making that comparison. It's not exactly the same 100% replica of what happened, but it's close for sure. Settlers come in,
things are fine initially, Those settler's do something to offend the natives of the land, they want to drive them out (rightfully so) they lose and now and out in chains and sent to reservation camps.
It's the same BS as Shuri calling Franklin a slave to Wakanda, that is one of the most offensive things Coates has had said in this series. Wakanda doesn't have or need or use slaves for anything. Yet he has Shuri so casually throwing it out and pretty comfortable using the word, While dismissing a very valid reason for attacking Atlantis (retaliation against a terrorist attack/act of war) as simply waking up on the wrong side of the bed.
There is a reason Tchalla was so appalled when he learned the truth and it's because Coates I'd turning Wakanda into a place to different then the rest of the world, except it's worse now because they chatised the rest of the World for using such method's to achieve what they have and now they are no better. Lee and Kirby's origin story was way better and it should of been left alone or expanded in a much more nuanced way. This whole both sides are Wrong bs happened already in S1 and that ended in such a way it made Tchalla look bad regardless of whatever outcome. This is feel will be the same[/B][/QUOTE]
I think some of the best stories are ones where there isn't a clear cut bad guy and both sides have understandable perspectives. Yeah, it's easy to simply say the monsters are the bad guys and the good guys just need to punch them out and save the day. Nothing wrong with black and white storytelling... but there's also nothing wrong with creating more complex situations where things aren't as clear cut. For a character like T'Challa, I think stories like this are actually perfectly designed for him. He is a charcter who is both a king (requiring him to do what's best for his people) and a hero (requiring him to do whats morally best). This puts him in a situation where the later potentially is put into conflict with the former, and he now needs to navigate through that. Because ANY super hero can just punch out evil monsters... with T'Challa you can go beyond that because of his dual nature.
As far as the natives rightly wanting to drive out the settlers... yes the humans somehow offended the Originators but I don't believe that necessarily means the Originators are right in attacking them. If you have a grievance, you talk it out. If you opt instead to use violence as a means of resolving the situation, you need to understand that it works both ways... deciding might makes right only works in your favor if you win. If you don't wanna risk getting killed, exiled, or imprisoned consider not starting a war in the first place.
I'm not saying the Originators don't have a valid gripe... they do. But the reason the story works is because both sides have understandable perspectives. And that's where T'Challa being a politician in addition to being a hero potentially comes into play. It's not necessarily a black and white story where the monsters are the clear cut bad guys who just need to be punched out to give us a happy ending. There are layers to this problem, require a potentially more complex solution.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3299406]Why are you wasting your time stating the obvious?[/QUOTE]
[B]You right, I dont know why, so instead i will move on to this:
Courtesy of Ture:
[quote=Ture]
[b]RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER: RISE AND SHINE[/b]
[b]Published Dec 8, 2017 By Dominic Griffin[/b]
[img]https://www.previewsworld.com/news_images/200778_1144453_5.jpg[/img]
[b]Writer Evan Narcisse uncovers T’Challa’s first days as king!
We’ve all come to know and love T’Challa as the King of Wakanda, but few Black Panther stories have shown us how he came to the throne—and how he evolved into a leader—in the first place.
On January 8, RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER #1 kicks off a limited series that dives into the early days of T’Challa’s life and reign. Writers Evan Narcisse and Ta-Nehisi Coates join artist Paul Renaud to explore how the death of King T’Chaka changed both his son and the nation of Wakanda forever.
We spoke with Narcisse about his process, his collaborators, and writing an icon like Black Panther.
Marvel.com: You’re jumping from comic book journalism to writing comics themselves. How does it feel to make that transition?
Evan Narcisse: This is my first creative writing—my first published creative writing, I should say—and my first time writing comic scripts. Doing this job, I had researched what comic scripts looked like before. One of the things that was so daunting and encouraging ended up being that there’s no set format—everybody does it a little differently. Some people have really rich, florid descriptions in terms of art direction and what the characters think and feel. Some people have very lean pages. Mine probably tended more towards the former than the latter. It’s a lot harder than it looks from the outside looking in. It’s a hybrid beast that looks like a movie script but also has to do some actual storytelling in the document. You have to guide the artist but not restrict them. It’s a lot more surprising and eye opening than I thought.
Marvel.com: BLACK PANTHER writer Ta-Nehisi Coates has been working with you on this book. What’s that relationship like?
Evan Narcisse: He’s mostly consulting; the vast majority of the plot and the script come from me. I’ll run stuff by him and we’ll make sure we’re in sync in terms of whether T’Challa would do something this way or that. But, yeah, most of it comes from me. I’m a huge T’Challa fan and I have been for years, so I feel like I have a good internal sense of where I want him to be and how I want him to come across in this work.
Marvel.com: How does it feel to work with artist Paul Renaud on your first Marvel book?
Evan Narcisse: We met for the first time in New York City. I’ve seen his work around on CAPTAIN AMERICA: SAM WILSON stuff and loved it. I saw what he did on GENERATIONS: THE AMERICAS and thought it looked really great and felt super excited to find out he was going to be the guy on this book.
Marvel.com: Describe your process of creating RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER alongside Ta-Nehisi and Paul.
Evan Narcisse: The process of honing your skills happens in installments. What I’m thinking of now is, like, wanting to do things a little bit differently in an issue means you have to work ahead to iterate to see if you actually accomplished the ambitions you set for yourself or if it’ll going to put you behind schedule. It can be a really intense learning process.
I have the advantage of talking to Ta-Nehisi every day. We’re friends so we talk about comic book stuff anyway. He told me, “In a year’s time, when you’re still doing this, you’ll look back on these scripts and see how much better they could have been.” It’s been really fun just figuring out the tools and what tools work best for me and what tools I feel like I want to try out.
Also, it can be weird. I’ve realized that your fandom comes out not just textually but mechanically. So, the kind of comic book writing I’ve enjoyed since childhood has been coming out of me organically. Which isn’t to say my stuff will read like Denny O’Neil or my favorite writers, but there are certain rhythms I feel like I’m doing my own spin on.[/b][/size]
[img]https://www.previewsworld.com/news_images/200778_1144452_4.jpg[/img]
[b]Marvel.com: Which writers have influenced your work? Do you count any prior BLACK PANTHER scribes among them?
Evan Narcisse: [color=red]You can’t talk about BLACK PANTHER in 2017 without talking about Christopher Priest. He gave T’Challa a really intense refocusing and reimagining that is impossible to ignore. It’s masterful. As a comic book critic, I’ve written about Priest’s work many times over the years and, even though he’s been resurgent in 2017, he’s still underappreciated. I tweeted out earlier that I reread the “Storm und Drang” storyline from BLACK PANTHER #26–#29, where T’Challa brings the world to the brink of war. Magneto, Dr. Doom, Deviant Lemuria, and Namor, all heads of state, powerful heads of state, jostle around each other with all these different agendas. I think it’s one of the best examples of geopolitical storytelling and the idea of statecraft in super hero comics. So, Priest for sure.
[/color]
Someone who seems unsung, not in general, but in terms of shepherding a certain vision of T’Challa, is Jonathan Hickman. He wrote T’Challa in his FANTASTIC FOUR run, setting up the King of the Dead aspect of the character. That fed into NEW AVENGERS—one of the best Avengers comics ever, but a low-key T’Challa book. That version of the Illuminati met in Wakanda. Again, his wants and needs clashed with the duty he had to do as a super hero in his rivalry with Namor.
One other thing that’s important to me about Black Panther and his creative legacy is his importance as a character that black creators could touch and leave an imprint on. I feel like every time a black writer or artist or editor has worked on a Black Panther book, the sensibilities of the characters got strengthened. You can go back to Billy Graham as the artist on that amazing Don McGregor run in JUNGLE ACTION. He was a superlative artist for his time; his draftsmanship and the tools in his storytelling are all super ambitious and genius level compared to some of the other work from the 1970s. From him, to Priest, to Reginald Hudlin and now to Ta-Nehisi…it’s important. Black Panther has always been symbolically important and I think black creators feel opportunity, responsibility, and a sense of kindred energy when working on the character. I certainly do.
Marvel.com: How did you land on telling the story of this liminal time in T’Challa’s life? It seems to have certain parallels with the upcoming “Black Panther” film.
Evan Narcisse: My conversations with Wil Moss, my editor, early on, were about an “early years” T’Challa story and the place I landed ended up being his first year as king. The first conversations we had were about T’Chaka and I came on the idea that T’Chaka’s assassination, his death, had to be a major political event in Wakanda’s history. It’d be like JFK’s assassination—the kind of thing that changes an entire country’s mindset. It’s the kind of event where you mark off time between everything that came before it and what comes after it. In the first issue, we explore some of what came before it, with T’Chaka in his prime—something we haven’t seen much. We’ve seen flashbacks and we’ve seen him a little older and we’ve seen him as a ghost. The “after” stuff will obviously be T’Challa’s reign. It’s an established part of the character that his father being this amazing king wears heavy on him. At the same time, he deals with threats his father never dealt with. So, that informs his decision to open up Wakanda.
And I’m super excited for the “Black Panther” movie. I can’t wait—I know this sounds corny—but I can’t wait for fans everywhere to explore this character and learn about him, because I think T’Challa is one of the best super heroes ever created. I think he’s thematically rich and an exciting character to watch evolve throughout his history. And I’m so honored to be a part of that evolution.
RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER #1, by Evan Narcisse, Ta-Nehisi Coates, and artist Paul Renaud, kicks off on January 3![/b]
[url=https://news.marvel.com/comics/81776/rise-black-panther-rise-shine/]https://news.marvel.com/comics/81776/rise-black-panther-rise-shine/[/url]
[/quote][/B]
REAL Black Panther fans should have BEEN seen the red warnings about Coates. I seen them before the first BP issue was released but at the time I rubbed it off because I did not believe he would be this BAD.
But anyways... I may offend some but I have to get this off my chest.
1. Coates is a very political figure. More importantly he is a [B]male feminist[/B]. Now I have nothing against feminism heck my sister is a feminist. And I have nothing against Coates being a male feminist. But it becomes damaging when we insert our OWN political views into comics, comics who's characters ALREADY had mythos installed... This is why I prefer politics OUT of comics. Reason is because Coates himself said Black Panther was a [I]"male fantasy."[/I] What the heck does that even mean? But that is no reason shit down a mythos that FANS repeat FANS love just so you can insert your own political ideas. But this is not even the part that pisses me off.
2. What enraged me was that Coates HIMSELF plainly said that he is against Afrofuturism. And prefers a Wakanda that is stereotypical African nation that is backwards. That right there should have enraged not only BP fans but Black comic readers in general. After that I knew things were gonna go more downhill and didnt even bother with the series. You know who is against Afrofuturism? Those racist sci-fi fans because they dont want minorities in the "future" and they see sci-fi as escapism from minorities. And yeah I went there! Afrofuturism is vital not just to BP and Wakanda but fiction based on Black people as a whole! How the hell could Coates be against this?
If you are a true BP fan STOP giving Coates your money like you did. I rather this series decline in sells and be cancelled than to see Coates further damage the BP character because its torture. I hope Coates upcoming Storm series sells so well that he ditches BP and focuses on Storm a character he actually likes.
[QUOTE=Cville;3299423]It's snowing where I am, so I have nothing better to do. lol[/QUOTE]
It might snow tomorrow in London. Haha!
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3299510]REAL Black Panther fans should have BEEN seen the red warnings about Coates. I seen them before the first BP issue was released but at the time I rubbed it off because I did not believe he would be this BAD.
But anyways... I may offend some but I have to get this off my chest.
1. Coates is a very political figure. More importantly he is a [B]male feminist[/B]. Now I have nothing against feminism heck my sister is a feminist. And I have nothing against Coates being a male feminist. But it becomes damaging when we insert our OWN political views into comics, comics who's characters ALREADY had mythos installed... This is why I prefer politics OUT of comics. Reason is because Coates himself said Black Panther was a [I]"male fantasy."[/I] What the heck does that even mean? But that is no reason shit down a mythos that FANS repeat FANS love just so you can insert your own political ideas. But this is not even the part that pisses me off.
2. What enraged me was that Coates HIMSELF plainly said that he is against Afrofuturism. And prefers a Wakanda that is stereotypical African nation that is backwards. That right there should have enraged not only BP fans but Black comic readers in general. After that I knew things were gonna go more downhill and didnt even bother with the series. You know who is against Afrofuturism? Those racist sci-fi fans because they dont want minorities in the "future" and they see sci-fi as escapism from minorities. And yeah I went there! Afrofuturism is vital not just to BP and Wakanda but fiction based on Black people as a whole! How the hell could Coates be against this?
If you are a true BP fan STOP giving Coates your money like you did. I rather this series decline in sells and be cancelled than to see Coates further damage the BP character because its torture. I hope Coates upcoming Storm series sells so well that he ditches BP and focuses on Storm a character he actually likes.[/QUOTE]
In all fairness, he didn't actually say he was against afrofuturism. He merely said you'd get in more in the art than in the actual story.
And consider that Coates is turning Wakanda into a galactic empire, I'd say he's not to shy about Sci fi.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3299489][B]You right, I dont know why, so instead i will move on to this:
Courtesy of Ture:
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the spirit my bro. :cool:
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3299532]That's the spirit my bro. :cool:[/QUOTE]
[B] Gotta say its easy to get sucked into the vortex here,
luckily there are those such as yourself with the life line save to bring it back.
As for the interview.. I feel good about Evan more and more, especially the part about hi. Being the main inspiration and Coates is less involved despite them putting his name first (Which I feel if this blows up and Evans breaks out, people will say it was Coates doing Which would be bs) as if it's supposed to boost sales.
But given what he says, he gets it. He gets the importance of a powerful showing of Bp for not only then mythos, but Black's in general. He is saying all the right things, and now it's just about execution. So far I will support the first issue Because he seems to want to elevate BP like Priest and Hudlin[/B]
If you're near the ATL area when the movie comes out, this looks like a cool event.
[url]http://marcusthevisual.com/tuskegee-heirs/[/url]