[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1733508]Just like someone can praise Jason Aaron for "See Wakanda and Die" and still criticize him for T'Challa's portrayal in AvX. Writers have pluses and minuses. It's not uncommon.[/QUOTE]
Lateral thinking is essential. LOL!
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1733508]Just like someone can praise Jason Aaron for "See Wakanda and Die" and still criticize him for T'Challa's portrayal in AvX. Writers have pluses and minuses. It's not uncommon.[/QUOTE]
Lateral thinking is essential. LOL!
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1733543]I'm confused as well, right now:confused:[/QUOTE]
well the issue says
Val says this [B]"And that's where it really gets interesting as Franklin is a universal shaper, a dreamer, so he has these ideas, for worlds, for universes, MOM, whole universes then he gives them to dad and dad using all that power spins them off into their own reality"
[/B]
i interpreted that franklin came up with the ideas and reed used the power to make them, but i guess its the opposite
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1733532][B]And that changes that statement how? He did a good job on Shuri but a crap job on T'Challa. Plus and minus[/B][/QUOTE]
The fact that Hickman wrote Queen shuri so well in [B]Everything Dies/Time Runs Out[/B] just goes to highlight the fact that he [SIZE=3][B]chose[/B][/SIZE] to write T'Challa out of character deliberately, so as to facilitate the story he wanted to tell.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1733542][SIZE=3]
What?
This Steve Rogers?
[/QUOTE]
Same Steve whacking Terrax with a cane. Writers have been very inconsistent on how they treated old Steve until ANAD. Remender and Hickman had him as essentially unable to engage as an active superhero until the later parts of TRO (even then he had to use armor against Stark among others).
And it's not like his speech always work. In fact, they were usually not working in Hickman's run. First big speech in NA got him mindwiped. Second had three Kang's telling him to shut his dumba$$ up.
who do you guys think T'challa's best buddy will be with Reed gone
Adam Brashear?
There are things I have really liked about many writers of T'Challa who at the same time wrote something else that made me cringe. That goes for Kirby, Priest, Hudlin, Hickman,.....Liss did great with what he was handed, Aaron. I'm sure Coates will not completely satisfy me, either. Ewing might. I loved MA enough to overlook some things might have taken issue with.
[QUOTE=Random4;1733580]who do you guys think T'challa's best buddy will be with Reed gone
Adam Brashear?[/QUOTE]
An AI prowler if his own design
[QUOTE=Random4;1733580]who do you guys think T'challa's best buddy will be with Reed gone
Adam Brashear?[/QUOTE]
Steve used to be his bud but Hickman's put that relationship in question.
Adam is certainly a possibility though they didn't seem to get along in Time Runs Out either.
[QUOTE=XPac;1733601]Steve used to be his bud but Hickman's put that relationship in question.
Adam is certainly a possibility though they didn't seem to get along in Time Runs Out either.[/QUOTE]
This assumes everyone remembers it, really. Since Cap was uncertain of Namor destroying a world, it seems unlikely most people remember the details of that
[QUOTE=Random4;1733580]who do you guys think T'challa's best buddy will be with Reed gone
Adam Brashear?[/QUOTE]
Victor Von Doom.
In regards to tech and abilities for T'Challa, I went and dug up Priest's old statement on it during his run. Found on digitalpriest.com, if you're curious.
For consideration and discussion:
[QUOTE]
10. What are the Black Panther's powers?
The title "Black Panther" is a rank of office, chieftain of the Wakandan Panther Clan. As chieftain, the Panther is entitled to eat a special heart-shaped herb that grants him enhanced senses: hearing, smell, taste, agility, speed, balance and night vision. Like Wolverine, he can pick up a prey's scent and memorize tens of thousands of individual ones. For instance, if T'Challa ran into Peter Parker at a press conference, he would instantly know Parker was Spider-Man.
Beyond his enhanced senses, the Panther is an above-average athlete. He is probably faster than Captain America, and can certainly track prey better, but Cap is probably a bit stronger than T'Challa and may have greater endurance. The two are very similar in terms of their abilities and their zeal for justice. And, like Captain America, Panther will always find a way. Unflappable even in the face of great peril, Panther, like Cap, ignores the odds and keeps fighting for victory.
The Black Panther has a very simple set of toys. As an inventor, he could certainly pull the Fractal TechGear Deep Sea Panther Armor (TM) out of his hat, but we try to play by the rules we set out. Panther's basic arsenal is:
[1] an energy dagger. This is supposed to be a virtual dagger, with a typical, ornate hilt carved out of ivory or stone or something, and an energy-generated blade that can be set to stun or kill. Early in the run, the editors and artist decided the energy dagger blades could be either handled like an actual knife or fired like darts.
[2] a Kimoyo card. Kimoyo is Bantu for "Of the Spirit." It is kind of a Mother Box with tons of applications. It is basically a Palm Pilot amped to the Nth degree. It functions a lot like the Avengers' communicards, but with a lot more practical applications (in issue #14, for example, Panther called up a virtual schematic of a jumbo jet's cockpit controls and took command of the plane, landing it safely in a river).
[3] energy dampening soles in his boots. Energy regulators create varying fields from the Vibranium in the molded soles of the boots, enabling Panther to survive a fall of eight stories and land like a cat. Given enough momentum, Panther can also scale walls or walk on water, and the field can be also used offensively to shatter or weaken objects.
[4] the Panther's costume contains a Vibranium microweave mesh that works a lot like super-kevlar. The microweave robs incoming objects of their momentum (bullets do not ricochet off but simply fall to the ground when they come in contact with the weave). Likewise, the Panther cannot be stabbed, but the costume (and Panther) can be cut if the attacker slashes along the grain of the costume (see the Kraven fight in issue #7 and 8). The lenses in the mask cut glare and enhance his natural night vision. The claws in his gloves are made of Vibranium-based "Anti-Metal," and can break down most any metal known to man at the molecular level. In *theory*, Panther's claws could damage Captain America's shield, the hardest metal known to the Marvel Universe. But, that's, in *theory.* Combined with the Vibranium-soled boots, the claws enable Panther to scale any wall to any height, and even cling to the underbelly of a plane in flight (again, issue #14). The cloak can be elongated or shortened or eliminated with just a thought, and the entire costume can morph into King T'Challa's trademark black business suit (he usually steps into a shadow and emerges in the other outfit). [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1732936]The level of misogyny in this post is quite frightening to say the least.[/QUOTE]
The only frightening level of anything is the assumes level of misogyny as opposed to Shuri be she a noncannon little sister or a non-cannon little brother is not on the same level of T'challa in any category thus doesn't require the same amount of trust.
[QUOTE=Ekie;1733622]The only frightening level of anything is the assumes level of misogyny as opposed to Shuri be she a noncannon little sister or a non-cannon little brother is not on the same level of T'challa in any category thus doesn't require the same amount of trust.[/QUOTE]
That's how you are defining who deserves trust, in this case? Based on ones capabilities compared to another? Really?
And as far as the entire story arc and its world is concerned, Shuri is T'Challa's sister, period.
[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;1733606]This assumes everyone remembers it, really. Since Cap was uncertain of Namor destroying a world, it seems unlikely most people remember the details of that[/QUOTE]
Steve seems on okay terms with Tony so I can probably assume he's on okay terns with T'challa. I guess we have to wait and see. I'm sure they'll interact at some point.
[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1733611]In regards to tech and abilities for T'Challa, I went and dug up Priest's old statement on it during his run. Found on digitalpriest.com, if you're curious.
For consideration and discussion:[/QUOTE]
I like this list. I would add only cloaking to the habit. And will say I'm interested in the properties Coates has proposed for the energy absorbtion, techno-force push. I suggested something similar hundreds of pages ago on this thread and it was dismissed as dirivitive by someone. The energy absorbing properties of vibranium, and other uses of vibranium, have always sparked my imagination. I've always thought more writers could have written T'Challa into a corner on purpose and "cuz vibranium"ed the story. Plot device be damned. I think the metal is under utilized.
[QUOTE=MouserGrey;1733641]I like this list. I would add only cloaking to the habit. And will say I'm interested in the properties Coates has proposed for the energy absorbtion, techno-force push. I suggested something similar hundreds of pages ago on this thread and it was dismissed as dirivitive by someone. The energy absorbing properties of vibranium, and other uses of vibranium, have always sparked my imagination. I've always thought more writers could have written T'Challa into a corner on purpose and "cuz vibranium"ed the story. Plot device be damned. [B]I think the metal is under utilized[/B].[/QUOTE]
Exactly my thoughts
[QUOTE=Random4;1733580]who do you guys think T'challa's best buddy will be with Reed gone
Adam Brashear?[/QUOTE]
[B]Ewing already stated they are gonna butt heads as the series goes on. Honestly it might be MAC that he has the closest relationship to because like Ewing said, he is gonna be the only one in the group that gets what she's about[/B]
[QUOTE=MouserGrey;1733641]I like this list. I would add only cloaking to the habit. And will say I'm interested in the properties Coates has proposed for the energy absorbtion, techno-force push. I suggested something similar hundreds of pages ago on this thread and it was dismissed as dirivitive by someone. The energy absorbing properties of vibranium, and other uses of vibranium, have always sparked my imagination. I've always thought more writers could have written T'Challa into a corner on purpose and "cuz vibranium"ed the story. Plot device be damned. I think the metal is under utilized.[/QUOTE]
[B]upgrade Kimoyo to Ewings version, and mix in Shadow Physics with Coates force push and we are all set[/B]
Shadow physics is dependant on vibranium, no?
No, it is not. Alchemy and science to utilize vibranium. Course, alchemy is kinda just early science.
[QUOTE=MouserGrey;1733685]Shadow physics us dependant on vibranium, no?[/QUOTE]
[B]Don't think so, in DW all the Vibranium was stolen so they used steel blades with Shadow Particles laced to them to counter the Vibranium powered Doom bots. I think Vibranium mixed with Shadow Particles has potential to be especially lethal ifba writer is creative enough to dive into it[/B]
Since vibranium is fictional it can be as deadly as a writer wants as it is.
im actually interested in franklin's relationship with t'challa
does he see t'challa as an uncle,
is there any comics of them connecting with each other?
[QUOTE=Random4;1733711]im actually interested in franklin's relationship with t'challa
does he see t'challa as an uncle,
is there any comics of them connecting with each other?[/QUOTE]
Your franlin/tchalla thing is starting to get creepy
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1733675][B]upgrade Kimoyo to Ewings version, and mix in Shadow Physics with Coates force push and we are all set[/B][/QUOTE]
Brian Selfreeze confirmed that T'Challa has more powers with some based out of the suit and some based on vibranium itself so that's that
[QUOTE=Ekie;1733622]The only frightening level of anything is the assumes level of misogyny as opposed to Shuri be she a noncannon little sister or a non-cannon little brother is not on the same level of T'challa in any category thus doesn't require the same amount of trust.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]Dude, you dropped a post were you stated that you had a problem with a whole heap of femaile characters so miss me with the faux outrage.
Prior to Priest introducing Hunter into the in-continuity based BP mythos as T'Challa's adopted caucasian older brother, the character was just as non-existent as Shuri was before Hudlin introduced her into what was at the time, [B]a six issue mini series set outside of 616 continuity[/B].
Marvel liked what Hudlin did so much that they decided to commission him to roll the mini-series into 616 continuity and make it a montly ongoing.
And as far as retconned brothers are concerned, (little or otherwise) I rarely see anyone commenting on Hunter being retconned into the 616 MU continuity of the BP mythos or even complaining about him, but I can find more than a few complaints about Shuri from a minority of readers who apparently feel uncomfortable with the concept of a woman running Wakanda even though a majority of the problems the fictional nation has faced over the last few years, have been solely down to T'Challa's stupidity as scripted by Hickman.
As I've said in a previous post, you personally have nothing to feel concerned about now as reagrds who sits on the throne of Wakanda because Hickman and Co have effectively erased Shuri from the BP mythos. (until proven otherwise)
You should be overjoyed and relieved at this turn of events.[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=Dboi654;1733729]Brian Selfreeze confirmed that T'Challa has more powers with some based out of the suit and some based on vibranium itself so that's that[/QUOTE]
Cant wait for another writer to throw out everyrbing and add his own stuff!
Worked well so far!
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1733629]That's how you are defining who deserves trust, in this case? Based on ones capabilities compared to another? Really?
And as far as the entire story arc and its world is concerned, Shuri is T'Challa's sister, period.[/QUOTE]
The mind boggles.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1733733][SIZE=3]
And as far as retconned brothers are concerned, (little or otherwise) I rarely see anyone commenting on Hunter being retconned into the 616 MU continuity of the BP mythos or even complaining about him, but I can find more than a few complaints about Shuri from a minority of readers who apparently feel uncomfortable with the concept of a woman running Wakanda even though a majority of the problems the fictional nation has faced over the last few years, have been solely down to T'Challa's stupidity as scripted by Hickman.
As I've said in a previous post, you personally have nothing to feel concerned about now as reagrds who sits on the throne of Wakanda because Hickman and Co have effectively erased Shuri from the BP mythos. (until proven otherwise)
You should be overjoyed and relieved at this turn of events.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Hunter never took away from BP, only added to his rogues. Shuri showed up and took bp title and powers. So one is obviously going to attract more disdain.
And shuri got wakanda smashed by namor and tchalla got it smashed by tge cabal. Guess there even now!
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1733733][SIZE=3]Dude, you dropped a post were you stated that you had a problem with a whole heap of femaile characters so miss me with the faux outrage.
Prior to Priest introducing Hunter into the in-continuity based BP mythos as T'Challa's adopted caucasian older brother, the character was just as non-existent as Shuri was before Hudlin introduced her into what was at the time, [B]a six issue mini series set outside of 616 continuity[/B].
Marvel liked what Hudlin did so much that they decided to commission him to roll the mini-series into 616 continuity and make it a montly ongoing.
And as far as retconned brothers are concerned, (little or otherwise) I rarely see anyone commenting on Hunter being retconned into the 616 MU continuity of the BP mythos or even complaining about him, but I can find more than a few complaints about Shuri from a minority of readers who apparently feel uncomfortable with the concept of a woman running Wakanda even though a majority of the problems the fictional nation has faced over the last few years, have been solely down to T'Challa's stupidity as scripted by Hickman.
As I've said in a previous post, you personally have nothing to feel concerned about now as reagrds who sits on the throne of Wakanda because Hickman and Co have effectively erased Shuri from the BP mythos. (until proven otherwise)
You should be overjoyed and relieved at this turn of events.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Don't forget S'Yan (Hudlin), N'Baza (Roy Thomas, Frank Giacola and Sal Buscema), Jakarra, Khanata (Kirby), Ishanta (Kirby), T'Shan (Hudlin), M'Koni (Ann Nocenti/Chuck Patton), Zuni (Kirby) Joshua Itobo (Kirby) and B'Tumba (Roy Thomas, Frank Giacola and Sal Buscema).
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1733748]Hunter never took away from BP, only added to his rogues. Shuri showed up and took bp title and powers. So one is obviously going to attract more disdain.
And shuri got wakanda smashed by namor and tchalla got it smashed by tge cabal. Guess there even now![/QUOTE]
Shuri was disliked by people from the moment she debuted. People didn't start to come around on the character till the "Back to Africa" arc.
The idea that Shuri "took away" from T'Challa is absurd and I was saying that as soon as it became evident that she'd take on the Black Panther mantle. T'Challa was always going to get the title back and he was never really going to go anywhere.
The only thing that happened with Shuri is that T'Challa gained another great supporting character. She was the focus of the series for a whopping 6 issues before T'Challa took center stage again in Doomwar, Man Without Fear/Most Dangerous Man Alive, and Hickman's New Avengers.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1733748]Hunter never took away from BP, only added to his rogues. Shuri showed up and took bp title and powers. So one is obviously going to attract more disdain.
And shuri got wakanda smashed by namor and tchalla got it smashed by tge cabal. Guess there even now![/QUOTE]
[B]To be fair when Wakanda got flooded that was PIS from an absolutely horrid event[/B]
[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1733777]Don't forget S'Yan (Hudlin), N'Baza (Roy Thomas, Frank Giacola and Sal Buscema), Jakarra, Khanata (Kirby), Ishanta (Kirby), T'Shan (Hudlin), M'Koni (Ann Nocenti/Chuck Patton), Zuni (Kirby) Joshua Itobo (Kirby) and B'Tumba (Roy Thomas, Frank Giacola and Sal Buscema).[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the additional information MrHashasheen. :cool:
[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;1733781]Shuri was disliked by people from the moment she debuted. People didn't start to come around on the character till the "Back to Africa" arc.
The idea that Shuri "took away" from T'Challa is absurd and I was saying that as soon as it became evident that she'd take on the Black Panther mantle. T'Challa was always going to get the title back and he was never really going to go anywhere.
The only thing that happened with Shuri is that T'Challa gained another great supporting character. She was the focus of the series for a whopping 6 issues before T'Challa took center stage again in Doomwar, Man Without Fear/Most Dangerous Man Alive, and Hickman's New Avengers.[/QUOTE]
I didnt like her much until Liss run. Now i hope she really sticks around... as a supporting character.
And she did take away his title until hickman fixed it. Tchalla was still called black pantger but waant really... it was weird
[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;1733781]Shuri was disliked by people from the moment she debuted. People didn't start to come around on the character till the "Back to Africa" arc.
The idea that Shuri "took away" from T'Challa is absurd and I was saying that as soon as it became evident that she'd take on the Black Panther mantle. T'Challa was always going to get the title back and he was never really going to go anywhere.
The only thing that happened with Shuri is that T'Challa gained another great supporting character. She was the focus of the series for a whopping 6 issues before T'Challa took center stage again in Doomwar, Man Without Fear/Most Dangerous Man Alive, and Hickman's New Avengers.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]
As always, the correctly state facts always speak for themselves..[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1733786][B]To be fair when Wakanda got flooded that was PIS from an absolutely horrid event[/B][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]
PIS from a horribly contrived event that had T'Challa joining up with the same Avengers who left him high and dry during [B]Doomwar[/B] to go poke his nose into the business of the X-Men who alongside the Fantastic Four and Jim Rhodes, actually helped T'Challa, Ororo and Shuri in their battle against Doom.
One couldn't even make this crap up even if one tried.[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1733790]Thanks for the additional information MrHashasheen. :cool:[/QUOTE]
Shuri holds a place in the Black Panther mythology, IMO. I'm not sure exactly what that place is currently, but I'm definitely not giving up on her.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1733792]I didnt like her much until Liss run. Now i hope she really sticks around... as a supporting character.
And she did take away his title until hickman fixed it. Tchalla was still called black pantger but waant really... it was weird[/QUOTE]
Initially didn't like Shuri at all because she screwed up with teh continuity of things, then I found out the original arc of Hudlin's run was supposed to be a mini. The character grew on me with the "Back to Africa" arc and I became a full on fan with the "Deadliest of the Species" arc.
T'Challa was always referred to as Black Panther and as King T'Challa. The whole thing was literally done just to elevate Shuri and T'Challa wasn't hurt by that in the process.
The only thing that hurt T'Challa in recent years was a lack of support overall by editors, a dumb premise of him being in Hell's Kitchen, the destruction of his marriage by selfish X-writers, and writers continually destroying Wakanda and insisting that Wakanda should continually "turn the other cheek".
[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;1733808]Initially didn't like Shuri at all because she screwed up with teh continuity of things, then I found out the original arc of Hudlin's run was supposed to be a mini. The character grew on me with the "Back to Africa" arc and I became a full on fan with the "Deadliest of the Species" arc.
T'Challa was always referred to as Black Panther and as King T'Challa. The whole thing was literally done just to elevate Shuri and T'Challa wasn't hurt by that in the process.
The only thing that hurt T'Challa in recent years was a lack of support overall by editors, a dumb premise of him being in Hell's Kitchen, the destruction of his marriage by selfish X-writers, and writers continually destroying Wakanda and insisting that Wakanda should continually "turn the other cheek".[/QUOTE]
^^^^Cosign.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1733786][B]To be fair when Wakanda got flooded that was PIS from an absolutely horrid event[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1733797][SIZE=3]
PIS from a horribly contrived event that had T'Challa joining up with the same Avengers who left him high and dry during [B]Doomwar[/B] to go poke his nose into the business of the X-Men who alongside the Fantastic Four and Jim Rhodes, actually helped T'Challa, Ororo and Shuri in their battle against Doom.
One couldn't even make this crap up even if one tried.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
That whole event (AxV) was just....ugh.
[QUOTE=MouserGrey;1733685]Shadow physics is dependant on vibranium, no?
No, it is not. Alchemy and science to utilize vibranium. Course, alchemy is kinda just early science.[/QUOTE]
I suspect the idea was actually to take the place of vibranium. Since Wakanda lost it's cool thing, Maeberry just introduced another cool thing they could have.
Since vibranium returned, there ended up with a net gain of cool things.