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the Ultimates operated with full government cooperation and even recorded what they were doing.
There mission was to be the anti-illuminati.
In fact, when they started doing stuff in secret is when the dumb govt superhero group got involved to stop it.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3728714]A fair amount of Avengers have done double duty as far as being in he main eventers team while being in a satellite book. Heck. almost half the original Uncanny Avengers team were also on Hickmans main team. So I'd very much support T'Challa being in the Ultimates, as long as he was still on the main Avengers team too. Course, you can argue it's a bit redundant... but hey, I'll take him in another book. The more the better (for me at least).[/QUOTE]
That's mostly because Hickman had 82 avengers on the team lol
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3728886][B]the Ultimates operated with full government cooperation and even recorded what they were doing.[/B]
There mission was to be the anti-illuminati.
In fact, when they started doing stuff in secret is when the dumb govt superhero group got involved to stop it.[/QUOTE]
So then essentially it would be more or less the same mission statement but with a team that can move books.
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I also just realized that there were no women on my team, so throw in Moon Girl to act sort of like Oracle.
She can even bring in Devil Dinosaur and do the mindswap thing so she can get in on the action, but be physically safe.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3728872]The last iteration of Ultimates was similar to the Illuminati too, but I don't want these guys operating in secret. Essentially they'd function as more of a vanguard and deterrent operating in tandem with groups like the X-Men, Avengers, SHIELD, and SWORD.
We can add in Strange as well since the Mystic side is equally important.
Pym finds and invasion from the microverse? Let's send in the Ultimates to end this quickly.
Basically, these guys are the types that would be able to find a threat, identify a way to stop it, and implement it before we need to commit any additional lives to the cause.
If they are met with something even they cant handle... well I guess you have the next summer event.[/QUOTE]
That would probably be the story of the book.
Initially they operate with clear transperacy (like the Ultimates). But sooner or later some big problem will require them to act like jerks to properly resolve (really that's what always happens when you get Reed and Tony in a room together without Steve), and that's when the Illuminati really start rolling. But that's for down the line
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3728914]I also just realized that there were no women on my team, so throw in Moon Girl to act sort of like Oracle.
She can even bring in Devil Dinosaur and do the mindswap thing so she can get in on the action, but be physically safe.[/QUOTE]
[B]I would switch moon girl out with a different female hero. Not sure who but an actual adult otherwise it dials the book down because she is just a child.[/B]
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3728786]I think it would be cool to have an Ultimates book featuring:
T'challa
Giant Man (Pym)
Mr. Fantastic
Iron Man
Incredible Hulk (Banner)
I would have them function somewhat similar to the last iteration of the Ultimates but with the biggest A list brains in the MU. But they would operate in concert with the other Superhumans. Basically they would be like the Fantastic Four but their mission would be to uncover pending threats to the MU rather than pure exploration.
So say Reed uncovers so parallel universe that's hostile. He calls these guys and they go and make sure the alternate warlords know not to even bother with Earth, because these are just five people and there are thousands on the other side of the portal just like them.[/QUOTE]
[B]I would throw in strange, BM, spectrum and Sue and take out banner or pym. Banner is too unpredictable and that would be bad for the team unless he went the tro route to control himself and I find pym to be boring unfortunately[/B]
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3728908]So then essentially it would be more or less the same mission statement but with a team that can move books.[/QUOTE]
I'm still mad the original team wasnt
T'challa
Carol
Strange
Thor with no Hammer
Adam
Spectrum
That book actually has a chance to sell,
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3729050]I'm still mad the original team wasnt
T'challa
Carol
Strange
Thor with no Hammer
Adam
Spectrum
That book actually has a chance to sell,[/QUOTE]
If the idea was to create a team to solve problems non violently, Thor probably wasn't your guy.
Third plan a is usually to hit something hard. And his plan b is usually to hit it harder if plan a doesn't work.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3729161]If the idea was to create a team to solve problems non violently, Thor probably wasn't your guy.
Third plan a is usually to hit something hard. And his plan b is usually to hit it harder if plan a doesn't work.[/QUOTE]
[B]It was stupid of Ewing to make arguably the strongest super hero team at the time and try to make them nonviolent[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3729176][B]It was stupid of Ewing to make arguably the strongest super hero team at the time and try to make them nonviolent[/B][/QUOTE]
I liked that part of it. It was what made it interesting up til Civil War II when Carol went crazy. Lol
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3729176][B]It was stupid of Ewing to make arguably the strongest super hero team at the time and try to make them nonviolent[/B][/QUOTE]
Commercially it probably wasn't a good idea. But creatively, I actually liked that it was trying to do something different.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3728600]T'challa may have graduated off Avenger's B squads, saved from being saddled with the responsibility of trying to sell a book featuring D listers and "If we put her in enough books she might sell please god Brie Larson save this character" Carol
But, yeah, the title will come back just ot keep copyright eventually. Too good of a comic book name.
Only way I accept T'challa being saddled with D lister Adam AND someone like Voodoo is with he is given an assist by Thor to sell the book.[/QUOTE]
Since when is Adam Brashear a D-lister?
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[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/dgbg.gif[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3729323]Commercially it probably wasn't a good idea. But creatively, I actually liked that it was trying to do something different.[/QUOTE]
[B]They tried to be the FF.. FF hasn't been doing that well itself.[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3729565][B]They tried to be the FF.. FF hasn't been doing that well itself.[/B][/QUOTE]
Basically yeah. It wasn't trying to be the Avengers... at the time there were like 3 other Avengers teams anyways. With no FF it was sort of trying to fill that void.
I thought it was a well written book (like pretty much everything Ewing does honestly). But obviously it wasn't for everybody.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3729496][IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/dgbg.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Where the popcorn at? :cool:
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[I]LOL, who is Brashear? The doctor from Deep Space 9?[/I]
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3729348]Since when is Adam Brashear a D-lister?[/QUOTE]
Adam would probably rank a lot lower than just D.
But to the topic....T'Challa would be pretty cool in a setting where Space/Cosmic heroes dwell. Maybe on a new Annihilation team or something. I feel that he would do better on a team carving out a setting that is not as familiar with heroes from different franchises coming together.
Having T'Challa on a team with Silver Surfer, Manifold, Nova, Gladiator and so on could be interesting.... if nothing else a change of pace. Only thing is he is somewhat shackled to Wakanda so probably wouldn't work long term. Unless Earth Wakanda moves to "space" Wakanda Empire.
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[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3729629][I]LOL, who is Brashear? The doctor from Deep Space 9?[/I][/QUOTE]
Blue Marvel. Teamates with T'Challa on the Ultimates.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Marvel[/url]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3729647]Blue Marvel. Teamates with T'Challa on the Ultimates.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Marvel[/url][/QUOTE]
[I]Thankyou XPac. To be honest, I have never heard of him. Must be a post-1990 character.[/I]
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[QUOTE=DragonsChi;3729644]Adam would probably rank a lot lower than just D.
But to the topic....T'Challa would be pretty cool in a setting where Space/Cosmic heroes dwell. Maybe on a new Annihilation team or something. I feel that he would do better on a team carving out a setting that is not as familiar with heroes from different franchises coming together.
Having T'Challa on a team with Silver Surfer, Manifold, Nova, Gladiator and so on could be interesting.... if nothing else a change of pace. Only thing is he is somewhat shackled to Wakanda so probably wouldn't work long term. Unless Earth Wakanda moves to "space" Wakanda Empire.[/QUOTE]
[I]I actually like this idea! T'Challa could easily make a space-panther-suit that would have more gadgets than Iron Mans. Not saying for a long run, but at least as a mini-series.[/I]
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[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3729655][I]Thankyou XPac. To be honest, I have never heard of him. Must be a post-1990 character.[/I][/QUOTE]
Most people haven't heard of him. That's part of the reason why some are suggesting he's a D lister. He's cool though. I believe he debuted 2008.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3729666]Most people haven't heard of him. That's part of the reason why some are suggesting he's a D lister. He's cool though. I believe he debuted 2008.[/QUOTE]
[I]I think a lot of black heroes may be "cool", but in reality, no one, even Marvel, has been able to top the coolness of the original Black Panther! War Machine?, Falcon?, Luke?, all may be close, but no cigar! :)[/I]
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[QUOTE=DragonsChi;3729644]Adam would probably rank a lot lower than just D.
But to the topic....T'Challa would be pretty cool in a setting where Space/Cosmic heroes dwell. Maybe on a new Annihilation team or something. I feel that he would do better on a team carving out a setting that is not as familiar with heroes from different franchises coming together.
Having T'Challa on a team with Silver Surfer, Manifold, Nova, Gladiator and so on could be interesting.... if nothing else a change of pace. Only thing is he is somewhat shackled to Wakanda so probably wouldn't work long term. Unless Earth Wakanda moves to "space" Wakanda Empire.[/QUOTE]
I was hoping during the second half of Ultimates, Galactus would give BP and Miss America a cosmic power up that they could use only when on mission for him or in space. Before Tchalla got his, Bast and Galactus would have a custody dispute. lol
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[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3729734][I]I think a lot of black heroes may be "cool", but in reality, no one, even Marvel, has been able to top the coolness of the original Black Panther! War Machine?, Falcon?, Luke?, all may be close, but no cigar! :)[/I][/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I'm not sure any black super hero is as cool as Black Panther. Storm and Luke Cage (IMO at least), are up there though.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3729749]I was hoping during the second half of Ultimates, Galactus would give BP and Miss America a cosmic power up that they could use only when on mission for him or in space. Before Tchalla got his, Bast and Galactus would have a custody dispute. lol[/QUOTE]
Anti-Man as a herald was cool though
.....
Don't even get me started on MAC. Bast have mercy, Ewing self sabotages himself
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[QUOTE=XPac;3729756]Yeah, I'd agree with that. I'm not sure any black super hero is as cool as Black Panther. Storm and Luke Cage (IMO at least), are up there though.[/QUOTE]
[I]In my old man eyes, Storm is cool, yes. I used to wish my ex-wife looked as hot as her! LOL
Luke, is much cooler since they stopped calling him Power Man, shaved his head, and got rid of the yellow and blue costume (though I did like the chain link belt). :)
[/I]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3729771]Anti-Man as a herald was cool though
.....
Don't even get me started on MAC. Bast have mercy, Ewing self sabotages himself[/QUOTE]
[B]Mac was very unlikable in the series and more hyped up then she Actually was capable of. The minute Ewing claimed she could shut the team down and failed to do so on top of other things really killed a potential cool book[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3729995][B]Mac was very unlikable in the series and more hyped up then she Actually was capable of. The minute Ewing claimed she could shut the team down and failed to do so on top of other things really killed a potential cool book[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't think it's entirely fair to say she failed to shut down the team. She was doing pretty well fighting all the Ultimates, before the fight was interrupted by Thanos getting freed. Given they barely layed a finger on her, it's entirely possible she could have won the fight like Ewing implied she could. In fact given the author of the book had the opinon that she could have won, I'm inclined to take his word for it.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3730051]I don't think it's entirely fair to say she failed to shut down the team. She was doing pretty well fighting all the Ultimates, before the fight was interrupted by Thanos getting freed. Given they barely layed a finger on her, it's entirely possible she could have won the fight like Ewing implied she could. In fact given the author of the book had the opinon that she could have won, I'm inclined to take his word for it.[/QUOTE]
[B]What writer's say outside the book is moot if the book does show it. Coates said Wakanda was in disarray like it was in S1 because they were putting out a ton of fires around Wakanda so that is why they we're stretched thin.. yet the book mentioned non of that and he said it in a tweet.. so shown it on Panel or it's just talk [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3730092][B]What writer's say outside the book is moot if the book does show it. Coates said Wakanda was in disarray like it was in S1 because they were putting out a ton of fires around Wakanda so that is why they we're stretched thin.. yet the book mentioned non of that and he said it in a tweet.. so shown it on Panel or it's just talk [/B][/QUOTE]
In the least Mac I think it's more than far to say Mac was winning the fight. Against all the Ultimates at once, I'd say that was pretty darn impressive.
And World of Wakanda actually does go more in depth with the idea that Wakanda was stretched thin, for those that needed more on that. So it was more than just talk. We also saw a bit of that when the north was essentially being jacked while T'Challa's forces were dealing with the problems in the south. It's how the Doras got the following they did.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3730096]In the least Mac I think it's more than far to say Mac was winning the fight. Against all the Ultimates at once, I'd say that was pretty darn impressive.
And World of Wakanda actually does go more in depth with the idea that Wakanda was stretched thin, for those that needed more on that. So it was more than just talk. We also saw a bit of that when the north was essentially being jacked while T'Challa's forces were dealing with the problems in the south. It's how the Doras got the following they did.[/QUOTE]
WoW doesn't do that. The "fires" were being ignored because "men". The Dora said they were enough to do it all. So if WK security was actually trying, there would be no problems.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3730111]WoW doesn't do that. The "fires" were being ignored because "men". The Dora said they were enough to do it all. So if WK security was actually trying, there would be no problems.[/QUOTE]
Ignored might be too strong a word... they said the government was distracted. And the Doras ended up filliing that void by operating outside their usual parameters to serve the people of Wakanda rather than just the king. It would be the equivalent of the Secret Service deciding to go deal with street crime.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3730127]Ignored might be too strong a word... they said the government was distracted. And the Doras ended up filliing that void by operating outside their usual parameters to serve the people of Wakanda rather than just the king. It would be the equivalent of the Secret Service deciding to go deal with street crime.[/QUOTE]
The said Tchalla was destracted. Remember the police officer who didn't care girls were missing and called the Dora royal whores.
Because "men".
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[QUOTE=Cville;3730147]The said Tchalla was destracted. Remember the police officer who didn't care girls were missing and called the Dora royal whores.
Because "men".[/QUOTE]
The cop said he had no leads. So in the least that does imply that the Doras could do the job better than he could (which I suppose isn't that surprising).
But I do think the moral of the story is that the Doras are better served helping the people of Wakanda than playing body guard to a king that arguably doesn't need a body guard. So it all worked out in the end.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3730154]The cop said he had no leads. So in the least that does imply that the Doras could do the job better than he could (which I suppose isn't that surprising).
But I do think the moral of the story is that the Doras are better served helping the people of Wakanda than playing body guard to a king that arguably doesn't need a body guard. So it all worked out in the end.[/QUOTE]
It led to a revolt that caused the deaths of "legions" off panel. I wouldn't call that working out.
When cops say they have no leads, it means they're not trying.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3730162]It led to a revolt that caused the deaths of "legions" off panel. I wouldn't call that working out.
When cops say they have no leads, it means they're not trying.[/QUOTE]
I know enough police and law enforcement officers to know the second part of your statement is not always true.
As far as the earlier part... certainly the separation got far uglier than it needed to. But in the end we got something that frankly made sense. Really, the idea of the Doras being body guards was sort of silly, since they are almost never around when he's actually in a dangerous situation. For the most part he leaves them at home when he's doing his super hero stuff. Doom War was an exception and there are probably a few others... but for the most part they're ceremonial arm pieces.
Now they're free to help people that actually need the help. So yeah... in the end I think things worked out better.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3730183]I know enough police and law enforcement officers to know the second part of your statement is not always true.
As far as the earlier part... certainly the separation got far uglier than it needed to. But in the end we got something that frankly made sense. Really, the idea of the Doras being body guards was sort of silly, since they are almost never around when he's actually in a dangerous situation. For the most part he leaves them at home when he's doing his super hero stuff. Doom War was an exception and there are probably a few others... but for the most part they're ceremonial arm pieces.
Now they're free to help people that actually need the help. So yeah... in the end I think things worked out better.[/QUOTE]
Who have to Dora helped since they separated? Couldn't beat the HZ. Got in bed with the type of people they claim to hate. Got talked down by Shuri. Failed to help QDJ. Couldn't beat the originators. Tchalla gives the armor and still need help.
When they were Dora, they stacked up wins.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3730189]Who have to Dora helped since they separated? Couldn't beat the HZ. Got in bed with the type of people they claim to hate. Got talked down by Shuri. Failed to help QDJ. Couldn't beat the originators. Tchalla gives the armor and still need help.
When they were Dora, they stacked up wins.[/QUOTE]
Their entire movement was built around women they saved. They basically inhabited the Jabari land with victimized women. And in the second season, in the rare instances we see them (which isn't often) they're still acting as protectors of Wakanda. I'd argue in the little we've seen them, they're proving to be more active against larger threats than they have in the past.
When they were Doras they weren't stacking up losses because they barely did anything. Again, with a couple exceptions they typically stay out of the super hero side of T'Challa's live. In the second season of BP they're actually fighting on the front lines against legit super human threats.
And they're even getting their own book Wakanda Forever, teaming up with Spider-Man, the X-Men, and the Avengers. Effectively they are evolving from red shirts into almost super heroes in their own right. Wouldn't quite say they are at that point yet.... but Wakanda Forever might get them there. We'll see.