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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3475040][COLOR="#000080"]Complaints about Coates handling of BP/Wakanda made by fans in this thread:
No Afro-futurism
Wakanda being portrayed as misogynistic
Tree-house rape camps
Ineffective use of the farce push
Ineffective leadership by T'Challa
T'Challa meeting with dictators on how to quell a rebellion
Using BP as a stealth title
Little to no feats
None of those issues were present in the BP movie.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
This is a forum where we keep it 100 and don't sugar coat. Everything that coats is doing wrong was present in this movie as it pertains to t'challa. If he doesn't have his mind and he doesn't have his Superior fighting skills then what does he have? Super powers cool every character has that...cool suit? Great just like ironman.
the fact that killmonger who was only a us-trained military operative was allowed to beat the brakes off of Cholla in straight up combat without cheating or any type of misdirect is indefensible.
these complaints do not take away from my love of the movie and its General tone and messaging or my love of the place that the character is at right now as far as popularity. However, when TChalla has a better showing in Civil War than he does here there's an issue that needs to be fixed. if someone were to go read to Tchalla's Marvel Wiki page and then compare that to the guy they saw in this movie they'd be very confused. then if they were to read Coat's nonsense and compare that to this guy they'd say yeah that's pretty much Tchalla.
Hell. Coogler even let michael b kollmonger be the character who had plans on top of plans. You can have Tchalla have all of his traits and still make ways for the other characters to shine. I complain because these movies tend to shape everything else as far as characters go so this the TChalla will be able to tell her that we get in movies, games, nd future comics.
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I don't see anything from Coates regarding Tchalla in this movie. I see McGregor and Hudlin. Only thing Coates can claim is the Kimiyo(sp) beads. lol
The idea that MBJ used Vegeta's saiyan uniform has more credibility. lol
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3469855][B] Ironically the thing people are complaining about (Tchalla not getting all the screen time) is actually what makes other superhero movies weaker, they take their supporting cast, introduce them Then they go into a Limbo until the climax then They come out to help. That show falcon was introduced.
I'll use another example.
Thor's warrior 3. Introduced in first Thor, and they did very little. They had no development and funny enough, the YouTube channel honest trailer's makes a joke about how in Thor and Thor 2, they change out one of the warrior 3 Characters with a different actor and said " You probably didn't even realize it was a different guy" which is true. They were so inconsequential that I didn't know that the guy was different. Then they are killed in Rag early on. No development, just showed up and were just there essentially, and when they died no one gave two shits. BP makes you invest in not only Tchalla, bit the supporting cast. There is a reason that people mention kilmonger, Okoye, Nakia, Shuri, and M'Baku. It's because like Tchalla,
you actually like the character and understand them and care about them. I bet you if the next movie or the 3rd had Okoye, Nakia, and M'Baku die after having the same treatment they got in this Movie, people would care ALOT. That's the difference.
For people to look at this and go "there wasn't enough Tchalla, that's fine. He is still the title Character, he will always have the Lions share of feats and screen time. You want good movies? This is how you do it. When people talk about the movie they always mention that EVERYONE was on point. Not just Tchalla and maybe one other person [/B][/QUOTE]
I partially agree. The screen time was not an issue but I would have loved to see a why T'Challa is the Black Panther. The film made it seem as if it was mostly due to his birth right. Also I wanted it shown that he is Wakanda's greatest Warrior and that he is a genius. For example, as in the comics I when T'Challa returned to Wakanda and met with the Tribal Warriors; I would have loved for him to take on all of the other tribe's best warrior and defeat them. Then M'Baku shows up and he has to defeat him, instead of the other tribes declining the challenge. I also wanted to see T'Challa brilliant mind at work. To show how he analyzes and is always a step ahead as well as him being a genius. Keep in mind, I loved the movie. I just wanted to see more of T'Challa characteristics that we fans love about him.
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[QUOTE=taozen;3475802]I partially agree. The screen time was not an issue but I would have loved to see a why T'Challa is the Black Panther. The film made it seem as if it was mostly due to his birth right. Also I wanted it shown that he is Wakanda's greatest Warrior and that he is a genius. For example, as in the comics I when T'Challa returned to Wakanda and met with the Tribal Warriors; I would have loved for him to take on all of the other tribe's best warrior and defeat them. Then M'Baku shows up and he has to defeat him, instead of the other tribes declining the challenge. I also wanted to see T'Challa brilliant mind at work. To show how he analyzes and is always a step ahead as well as him being a genius. Keep in mind, I loved the movie. I just wanted to see more of T'Challa characteristics that we fans love about him.[/QUOTE]
[B] I get it, problem though is like Priest review, it's very hard to have plans upon plans in movies for the heroes.
Because unlike a book or comic, movies have limited time, and unless they literally played it like the movies where the beginning starts with basically a Climax scene then the entire movie is leading to the point, it doesn't translate well.
That being said gotta give Tchalla his credit. Yes they say Okoye is Wakandas greatest warrior, hit that's just a title.
On comics Zuri was the greatest warrior. T'Challa is definitely above them. If Okoye was the best then T'Challa Erik would of been recked by her. Even in their fight Tchalla was giving Erik the business but after learning he had a cousin and the shock of everything z it was clear his heart was not in the Fight. Yet he still knocked Erik down and told him to yield instead of ending it.
Plus this is a fresh young T'Challa. Once he starts getting seasoned, we are going to see more of his mind. But right now the biggest showing of it is more subtle and nuanced,
I he is wise beyond hos years [/B]
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I do miss Hudlin T’Challa in the comics. He was not to be messed with by anyone.
I will admit I was surprised at how decisively Killmonger won the first encounter. Obviously T’Challa didn’t want to kill him and was careless but idk if that’s a good excuse in a duel to the death when the other guys dad was murdered by your dad and he’s coming for blood.
I wasn’t sure how T’Challa would fair in the rematch. I knew he would ultimately win, but I thought it would be bloody
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[QUOTE=Ekie;3475679]This is a forum where we keep it 100 and don't sugar coat. Everything that coats is doing wrong was present in this movie as it pertains to t'challa. If he doesn't have his mind and he doesn't have his Superior fighting skills then what does he have? Super powers cool every character has that...cool suit? Great just like ironman.
the fact that killmonger who was only a us-trained military operative was allowed to beat the brakes off of Cholla in straight up combat without cheating or any type of misdirect is indefensible.[/quote]
[B]Are we also going to gloss over what transpired before the fight? The reveal, and you can see Tchallas heart isn't I the fight, yet he still was giving him the business and commanded him to yield. Us kilmonger in comics has always giving Tchalla a hard fight even though T'Challa is trained in all forms of Martial arts. It's basically like Batman vs Death stroke, despite being a top fighter he gets wrecked by DS. And no, what Coates is doing was completely different. He had everyone talking shit and had T'Challa do stupid things like go unprepared against Zenzi,
then next Issue unprepared Against Tetu, then asks despots for help, etc. Not the same.
Also in CW they had Zemo have plans upon plans that everything went flawlessly that he completely divided the Avengers, and Zemo in comics isn't that type of planner. [/B]
[Quote]these complaints do not take away from my love of the movie and its General tone and messaging or my love of the place that the character is at right now as far as popularity. However, when TChalla has a better showing in Civil War than he does here there's an issue that needs to be fixed. if someone were to go read to Tchalla's Marvel Wiki page and then compare that to the guy they saw in this movie they'd be very confused. then if they were to read Coat's nonsense and compare that to this guy they'd say yeah that's pretty much Tchalla.
Hell. Coogler even let michael b kollmonger be the character who had plans on top of plans. You can have Tchalla have all of his traits and still make ways for the other characters to shine. I complain because these movies tend to shape everything else as far as characters go so this the TChalla will be able to tell her that we get in movies, games, nd future comics.[/QUOTE]
[B]Ce was good for Tchalla, the BP movie was better. Ot established his conviction, his wisdom beyond his years,
hos capabilities as a leader and BP, AND gave development to his supporting cast instead of them being forgettable nobodies. And they Did this without making T'Challa into an inept fool who basically needs to have hos hand held to wipe his own ass like Coates has done [/B]
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3475887]I do miss Hudlin T’Challa in the comics. He was not to be messed with by anyone.
I will admit I was surprised at how decisively Killmonger won the first encounter. Obviously T’Challa didn’t want to kill him and was careless but idk if that’s a good excuse in a duel to the death when the other guys dad was murdered by your dad and he’s coming for blood.
I wasn’t sure how T’Challa would fair in the rematch. I knew he would ultimately win, but I thought it would be bloody[/QUOTE]
Killmongers claim to fame is that he is the guy who Tchalla cant beat. The fact that he beat him is something of a miracle. lol
MoS pointed out there is maybe one instance where it happens in a Daredevil issue.
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Coates Panther feels like some guy who inherited the job and everything’s always going wrong. Late 90s to the 2000s Wakanda was this mighty unconquerable paradise.
Ever since AvX I’ve felt like Wakanda is always getting the stuffing knocked out of it
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3475887]I do miss Hudlin T’Challa in the comics. He was not to be messed with by anyone.
[B]
I will admit I was surprised at how decisively Killmonger won the first encounter. Obviously T’Challa didn’t want to kill him and was careless but idk if that’s a good excuse in a duel to the death when the other guys dad was murdered by your dad and he’s coming for blood[/B].
I wasn’t sure how T’Challa would fair in the rematch. I knew he would ultimately win, but I thought it would be bloody[/QUOTE]
[B] that's actually a really good reason for him to lose. He learned, 1 his father who he looked up to, his hero and his idealize role model, killed his own brother, and left his own nephew alone in a foreign land to fend for himself. If you were about to partake in something that requires razor sharp focus and a bomb was dropped on you like that, you wouldn't be able to focus either. The perfect man in his eyes did some fucked up shit... To his own family for that matter[/B]
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[QUOTE=Cville;3475927]Killmongers claim to fame is that he is the guy who Tchalla cant beat. The fact that he beat him is something of a miracle. lol
MoS pointed out there is maybe one instance where it happens in a Daredevil issue.[/QUOTE]
This is very true. Beating T’Challa straight up gives Killmonger so much cred. Bane and Joker move over
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3475935]This is very true. Beating T’Challa straight up gives Killmonger so much cred. Bane and Joker move over[/QUOTE]
There are at least three instances where he thinks ahead. Putting the bug on Ross. Telling Shuri to move around the truck. Having the train turned on and the final move with the knife.
Intelligence confirmed during the first lab scene.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3475959]There are at least three instances where he thinks ahead. Putting the but on Ross. Telling Shuri to move around the truck. Having the train turned on and the final move with the knife.
Intelligence confirmed during the first lab scene.[/QUOTE]
I really don’t have anything to object to or question about T’Challa in this film. He handled every situation as best as could be expected. How he was able to hang on and survive that fall most of all.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3475934][B] that's actually a really good reason for him to lose. He learned, 1 his father who he looked up to, his hero and his idealize role model, killed his own brother, and left his own nephew alone in a foreign land to fend for himself. If you were about to partake in something that requires razor sharp focus and a bomb was dropped on you like that, you wouldn't be able to focus either. The perfect man in his eyes did some fucked up shit... To his own family for that matter[/B][/QUOTE]
Ultimately for the purposes of the movie I have no complaints with how things went down even tho they expedited that challenge really fast. I think it’s a logical reason and I understand it and I give Killmonger credit for executing it all more than anything, but I don’t accept it as a good excuse and I believe T’Challa would agree with me. Despite everything going on he is the king and the ultimate protector fortunately (unsurprisingly) he’s able to pull it all together by the end.
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Just read this cbr article on Black Panther vs Batman from a few months ago
[url]https://www.cbr.com/black-panther-beats-batman/[/url]
:cool:
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Thought this was cool - a small local piece on Dorothy Steel, who plays the Merchant Tribe Elder in the film.
[QUOTE]ATLANTA - The biggest movie out right now was filmed right here in Atlanta and among the stars is a local woman who got ready for her acting closeup at age 88.
Now, 91, Dorothy Steel has a handful of credits but Marvel's newest blockbuster, 'Black Panther,' is her latest and first big feature film.
In it, she plays a tribe leader in the fictional land of Wakanda.
“It was just amazing, it truly was,” Steel told Channel 2's Nefertiti Jaquez.
The film has been a record-breaking success and pop culture phenomenon. The film grossed $192 million for the three-day weekend and up to $218 million for the four-day Presidents Day weekend, according to The Hollywood Reporter.
“If anyone would have told me I would be an actor, I would’ve said you got to be out of your mind,” Steel said.
Steel said she sent her audition tape when Marvel called her last year.
“We sent it in and an hour later they said, "Who is that old lady? We want her,'" she recalled.
Steel ended up landing the part of the merchant tribal elder who advises the King of Wakanda played by lead actor Chadwick Boseman.
"Chadwick the King. Every day, he would make sure if I was on the set, he would come by and make sure he gave me a big old hug and kiss,” Steel said.
Steel said she became the “grandmother” on the set of 'Black Panther,' which she said is not just a movie but a movement.
“We were one big melting pot of black people and we knew we were doing something that had never been done before. Ya know?" she said.
Steel doesn’t just think the blockbuster hit is breaking records for its push for representation, but also because of its female heroes. She said the women of Wakanda rule 'Black Panther.'
"We have power and it’s time for us to step up and take over. That’s what we have to do and take over," she said.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/among-the-cast-of-black-panther-is-a-91-year-old-atlanta-actress/703891800"]http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/among-the-cast-of-black-panther-is-a-91-year-old-atlanta-actress/703891800[/URL]