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[QUOTE=neohuey89;1753318]I think part of that is because there are some that remember what occured in 616 and that information has transferred over. When Wakanda was destroyed it seems Shuri knew that he was Bast's personal Panther so maybe everyone has that understanding.[/QUOTE]
[B]But being bast champion doesn't automatically make him king, The only way it partially makes sense is that before Shuri died she made T'Challa king again, however doing the reboot she would still be queen unless she kept that memory and allowed that to be the case (which still doesn't make sense because he was out with Wakanda's youth) its a big plot hole that needs to be addressed, because right now he is king but he shouldn't be. Well in Ultimates its fine because its an 8 month time skip, but the solo needs to address it [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1753346][B]But being bast champion doesn't automatically make him king, The only way it partially makes sense is that before Shuri died she made T'Challa king again, however doing the reboot she would still be queen unless she kept that memory and allowed that to be the case (which still doesn't make sense because he was out with Wakanda's youth) its a big plot hole that needs to be addressed, because right now he is king but he shouldn't be. Well in Ultimates its fine because its an 8 month time skip, but the solo needs to address it [/B][/QUOTE]
based on other books the old timelime hasn't been erased. It happened , but things are restored to a new point starting at NA #1. For instance the Squadrom Supreme knows Namor was destroying worlds. Ms. Marvel apparently remembers dying at the Last Incursion, etc. So if the Wakandan's knew that T'Challa wasn't king because he was assigned with handling incursions/secret wars, then maybe everyone decided he should remain king after everything was resolved.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1753346][B]But being bast champion doesn't automatically make him king, The only way it partially makes sense is that before Shuri died she made T'Challa king again, however doing the reboot she would still be queen unless she kept that memory and allowed that to be the case (which still doesn't make sense because he was out with Wakanda's youth) its a big plot hole that needs to be addressed, because right now he is king but he shouldn't be. Well in Ultimates its fine because its an 8 month time skip, but the solo needs to address it [/B][/QUOTE]
His solo will have an 8 month time skip as well. Everyting skipped up.
But... solo gives them time to flesh out everything Wakanda. ultimates really doesn't... too many cast members and ideas are too big to waste panel on Wakanda happenings.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1753346][B]But being bast champion doesn't automatically make him king, The only way it partially makes sense is that before Shuri died she made T'Challa king again, however doing the reboot she would still be queen unless she kept that memory and allowed that to be the case (which still doesn't make sense because he was out with Wakanda's youth) its a big plot hole that needs to be addressed, because right now he is king but he shouldn't be. Well in Ultimates its fine because its an 8 month time skip, but the solo needs to address it [/B][/QUOTE]
It's a whole not not necessarily a big one. Even when Bast made him king of the dead she did essentially offer him the throne back if he wanted it.
So essentially Shuri was just keeping it warm until he was ready to take it back.
[QUOTE=neohuey89;1753356]based on other books the old timelime hasn't been erased. It happened , but things are restored to a new point starting at NA #1. For instance the Squadrom Supreme knows Namor was destroying worlds. Ms. Marvel apparently remembers dying at the Last Incursion, etc. So if the Wakandan's knew that T'Challa wasn't king because he was assigned with handling incursions/secret wars, then maybe everyone decided he should remain king after everything was resolved.[/QUOTE]
[B]Some would know, but not everyone knows what happened. I am pretty sure that was the case, people will remember but not everyone does. On top of that, He still went back to the exact time that NA started AND the youth wouldn't know that he is king, No one except Shuri would know that he is king because everyone else was dead when they had that conversation. Again it has to be address because its a big hole. Granted he could of not corrected them because he knew He was Technically king again when Shuri gave him the mantle back but still what about Shuri is the big question. [/B]
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1753367]His solo will have an 8 month time skip as well. Everyting skipped up.
But... solo gives them time to flesh out everything Wakanda. ultimates really doesn't... too many cast members and ideas are too big to waste panel on Wakanda happenings.[/QUOTE]
[B]Well either way hopefully it will be address. Because she needs to be in the mythos[/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1753313][B]Actually (and im pretty sure it was pointed out here) In issue 1 of NAm the Wakanda youth say my King and T'Challa responds that he is not their king out there where they are at, but at the end of SW they address him as their king and he says "Yes" agreeing that he is their king now It was a subtle change but the second time around he doesn't correct them and so he did change it so that he was king again [/B][/QUOTE]
He doesnt correct them because that is probably the last thing on his mind and it tells the reader that this scene is different.
The kids are not stupid, they know that Shuri runs the show. But that us the King they grew up with, and they still call him such.
That being said, its a wait and see.
Was discussing Secret Wars and the upcoming Coates run elsewhere with others. One of them wrote a post and wanted me to share it to you guys. I'm assuming he lurks here every so often, hence why Mr. Maj in particular was mentioned.
Again, it is his thoughts, not mine. However, I do see where he is coming from and I, for the most part, agree with his overall point.
[QUOTE]Here is where I am coming from on the matter..
Obviously T'Challa is King again, this is certain. Now the question for a lot of fans isn't whether we WANT T'Challa to be King, it's rather, after the humiliating and disrespectful way Hickman neutered the character, if he DESERVES to be King. The T'Challa we see in Ultimates, is a man worthy of being King (minus the hairline lol) worthy of leading people. He is cool, calm, collected, intelligent, and able to figure out something as complex as solving the "Galactus Problem". How do we, as readers reconcile that with the weak, emasculated, and ultimately beaten character that Hickman wrote for the past 4 or so years?
I believe Coates is aware of this, I believe, if he has read Hickman's run as much studiously as claimed, that he will be using this run, and essentially the rebellion that is promised, to answer a singular question. Why DOES T'Challa deserve to be King? Remember, the enemy that will be faced in this "Season" are a group called The People. We, the readers, the fans, are essentially The People. And we have watched T'Challa become deconstructed down to a crying little boy who couldn't go forward with a plan he essentially helped formulate. Like Mr. Majestik has said before (and yourself as well) would you want someone like THAT to be your King? Would you follow such a man? Would you bleed for him? Would you DIE for him?
And would you forgive him simply because he pushed a button and "went back" to before all of these poorly made decisions occurred? A King doesn't get to "Go Back". A King doesn't get to "reclaim " his throne simply because he pushed a Gem and said "Let It Be So". A King MUST live with his decisions, be they made poorly or wisely, a King MUST be judged on the success or failure of his Kingdom, and if found wanting, a King MUST seek and EARN redemption.
This Arc will be about T'Challa's redemption, both in the eyes of his people and us as readers. T'Challa cannot TRULY be King when there are people who think Shuri would do a better job. We needn't look any further than the end of Secret Wars itself, Doom ADMITTED both to himself and to Reed that his Arch Nemesis would have done a better job as the ruling God. T'Challa will HAVE to come to that realization himself, that Shuri did a better job, when it came to ruling and fiercely PROTECTING Wakanda, and he will have to face the consequences of what his decisions have wrought.
The story is called A NATION Under Our Feet. T'Challa's greatest Foe will be the one he HIMSELF was sworn to protect and serve, Wakanda. He will have to face THE PEOPLE who lost faith in him, THE PEOPLE whom he led to ruin and slaughter, and THE PEOPLE who read all of this in silent disgust. This will be Coates, and by Proxy T'Challa's biggest battle, for the respect and renewed faith of his NATION of readers, whom he will NEED to continue supporting him as a character as he makes his transition to A-list superhero within the Marvel Continuity. If posters like Mr Majestik can BELIEVE in the concept of T'Challa as King again, then the character is redeemed. We wouldn't NEED to have talk or debate the Monarchy ending, because THE PEOPLE will have a King they can trust. The King who saved the Universe from Galactus. The King who defeated his Father's murderer. The King who was once married to one of the world's most powerful individuals. The King who can command a NATION at his feet.
Do me a favor and post this on CBR. I want to know what people think [/QUOTE]
Thoughts on his post?
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1753562]Was discussing Secret Wars and the upcoming Coates run elsewhere with others. One of them wrote a post and wanted me to share it to you guys. I'm assuming he lurks here every so often, hence why Mr. Maj in particular was mentioned.
Again, it is his thoughts, not mine. However, I do see where he is coming from and I, for the most part, agree with his overall point.
Thoughts on his post?[/QUOTE]
To be blunt, its the same ol' argument of the people on the "T'challa sucks, Shuri rules" bandwagon just worded different. The "Shuri did a better job" stuff is just so... tiring, especially since the Shuri fan club keeps blaming T'challa for AvX. It is just gonna get the same arguments back and forth.
The parts that leave out the one-sided T'challa hate, I am not even sure I agree with the "The People are those who read Hickman's story in disgust" or whatever because... that is a small, vocal minority of the BP fan club populatio and an even smaller minority of the "Marvel Fan Club" population. I really doubt Coats and Co are writing to those people because... they don't matter in the grand scheme of things. There will always be a small minority of people who hate something and are loud about it.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1753562]Was discussing Secret Wars and the upcoming Coates run elsewhere with others. One of them wrote a post and wanted me to share it to you guys. I'm assuming he lurks here every so often, hence why Mr. Maj in particular was mentioned.
Again, it is his thoughts, not mine. However, I do see where he is coming from and I, for the most part, agree with his overall point.
Thoughts on his post?[/QUOTE]
I think the notion of whether or not T'Challa is worthy to be king is completely ridiculous.
The guy just saved the damn multiverse. He is smarter amd more experienced than anyone they that might replace him.
And to be meta about the whole thing, Wakanda exists purely as a prop for T'Challa. It's there to help tell stories about him. So anyone that would actually replace him will likely just be used to show T'Challa is in fact best suited for the role that was created for him in the first place.
As far as him getting to be king again, Bast already told him he could have it back if he wanted. And Shuri essentially surrendered the throne to him after he decided to needlessly get killed for no reason whatsoever. So T'Challa is king again. Wakandans that don't like it can revolt or move someplace which has actual elections.
I do, however, thing Coates is smart enough to take the angle that T'challa (whether he needs to or not) needs to re-win the loyalty of his people. Of course, these people need to have no knowledge that TCHALLA SAVED THE MULTIVERSE AND DI WAS BAST TOLD HIM but maybe T'challa doesn't have a T-shirt thats ays "Bast was Right"
Some prob/costume gloves for Civil War.
[IMG]https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1499/23965968014_aca4b06213_o.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1753562]Was discussing Secret Wars and the upcoming Coates run elsewhere with others. One of them wrote a post and wanted me to share it to you guys. I'm assuming he lurks here every so often, hence why Mr. Maj in particular was mentioned.
Again, it is his thoughts, not mine. However, I do see where he is coming from and I, for the most part, agree with his overall point.
Thoughts on his post?[/QUOTE]
T'Challa has done far more than enough to deserve to be king. I thought he was written uneven in the whole Hickman arc. This isn't a bash on Hickman because I'm a big fan of his writing but I just thought his T'Challa was uneven.
But none of that matters when you compare what T'Challa has done over the entirety of his rule. He deserves to be king because he earned it. He suffered far worse at the hands of Doom in Deadliest of the Species and Doom War but no one was questioning his right to rule again. Coates deserves the chance to tell his story just like every other writer before him. and he should be judged on his work overall when he's done.
Double post.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;1753631]T'Challa has done far more than enough to deserve to be king. I thought he was written uneven in the whole Hickman arc. This isn't a bash on Hickman because I'm a big fan of his writing but I just thought his T'Challa was uneven.
But none of that matters when you compare what T'Challa has done over the entirety of his rule. He deserves to be king because he earned it. He suffered far worse at the hands of Doom in Deadliest of the Species and Doom War but no one was questioning his right to rule again. Coates deserves the chance to tell his story just like every other writer before him. and he should be judged on his work overall when he's done.[/QUOTE]
[B]I dunno Doom saved part of Wakanda on battle world, which was suppose to be T'Challa's job of saving his people and thats a pretty big insult, especially when your god tasked you with it and gave you a power upgrade to be able to do so. [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1753792][B]I dunno Doom saved part of Wakanda on battle world, which was suppose to be T'Challa's job of saving his people and thats a pretty big insult, especially when your god tasked you with it and gave you a power upgrade to be able to do so. [/B][/QUOTE]
Doom saved a part of Wakanda that was under his control along with the rest of Battleworld however. T'Challa saved all of Wakanda and freed it from Doom.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1753792][B]I dunno Doom saved part of Wakanda on battle world, which was suppose to be T'Challa's job of saving his people and thats a pretty big insult, especially when your god tasked you with it and gave you a power upgrade to be able to do so. [/B][/QUOTE]
In the end T'Challa's people WERE saved. He did get the job done. Which isn't to say Doom and various others didn't play a role, but T'Challa did the job.
I'm pretty darn skeptical a different Wakandan in T'Challa's position (Shuri included) could have done a better job.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1753792][B]I dunno Doom saved part of Wakanda on battle world, which was suppose to be T'Challa's job of saving his people and thats a pretty big insult, especially when your god tasked you with it and gave you a power upgrade to be able to do so. [/B][/QUOTE]
Why are we pretending that T'challa and Reed didn't bring everything back?
Every single dead wakandan is back alive since NA #1. Including those who died by the hand of Swan, pre all of T'challa's "mistakes."
So, if we are keeping score, T'challa 'messed up' and got Wakanda obliterated.... but brought them all back to life, including the kids who werne't his fault really.
Shuri was ruler duing AvX and got everyone flooded... yet no one gives her any shit.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1753900]Why are we pretending that T'challa and Reed didn't bring everything back?
Every single dead wakandan is back alive since NA #1. Including those who died by the hand of Swan, pre all of T'challa's "mistakes."
So, if we are keeping score, T'challa 'messed up' and got Wakanda obliterated.... but brought them all back to life, including the kids who werne't his fault really.
Shuri was ruler duing AvX and got everyone flooded... yet no one gives her any shit.[/QUOTE]
BP isn't going to get the credit he deserves around here (some posters on this site are "theorizing" him out of the story completely), but he's seen this from the beginning all the way to the very end, so he definitely get props. Not just helping bring everything back, but being able to survive the event entirely.
[QUOTE=XPac;1753612]I think the notion of whether or not T'Challa is worthy to be king is completely ridiculous.
The guy just saved the damn multiverse. He is smarter amd more experienced than anyone they that might replace him.
And to be meta about the whole thing, Wakanda exists purely as a prop for T'Challa. It's there to help tell stories about him. So anyone that would actually replace him will likely just be used to show T'Challa is in fact best suited for the role that was created for him in the first place.
As far as him getting to be king again, Bast already told him he could have it back if he wanted. And Shuri essentially surrendered the throne to him after he decided to needlessly get killed for no reason whatsoever. So T'Challa is king again. Wakandans that don't like it can revolt or move someplace which has actual elections.[/QUOTE]
I find most of your assertions in this regard, patently ridiculous for the simple fact that any actions carried out by the respective characters throughout the entirety of [B]Everything Dies/Times Runs Out/Secret Wars II[/B], were all down to Jonathan Hickman who actually wrote the damn story.
If some personally feel that "Shuri decided to needlessly get killed for no reason whatsoever" when it's pretty damned obvious that the reasoning for her death (on or off panel) came by way of Hickman's desire for this to be the case, referring to such an assertion as being disingenuous would be an understatement of gargantuan proportions.
A T'Challa written in character and in possession of his much vaunted foresight, intelligence and superior strategic acumen, would never have kept a threat as important as the Incursions away from his sister who was actually Queen of Wakanda at the time.
T'Challa had a duty to inform Shuri of the deaths of the three young Wakandans who died at the hands of Black Swan and her Reavers, as a matter of course, but like most other character building moments that ended up off panel, we never got to see how T'Challa explained the deaths of the three Wakandans or even what thought process went into his decision to engage with an organisation that he'd declined membership of previously.
This nonesense about Wakanda's existence merely being there to "prop up T'Challa" as a storytelling devise has got be one of the most conceited ideas I've come across in recent times and indicative of one of the biggest hurdles concepts of this depth have always faced for millenia.
Namely the inability of some, to see the smorgasbord of infinitely creative possibilities that exist just beyond the periphery of their own understanding.
Bast's scripted dialogue to T'Challa as regards the rulership of Wakanda were quite clear but it's worth noting that anything that came out of that deity's mouth whilst being scripted by Maberry and Hickman, was definitely not to be trusted.
And as far as T'Challa's being King again, lets not pretend that T'Challa time/reality jumping himself back to a particular pre-incursion point of reference that has him on the throne instead of Shuri, doesn't in itself,constitute in his having possibly altered reality slightly to his advantage in a manner that makes him no0 better than the likes of Doom.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1753900]Shuri was ruler duing AvX and got everyone flooded... yet no one gives her any shit.[/QUOTE]
OK, someone explain this to me...why did Shuri even get involved in this? Why seize transonic? What was the purpose of that?
Hell, why is T'Challa, Ororo, Shuri, and Wakanda in generally picking a side in that conflict? What was the point?
The more I look at AvX, the more this is simply bad writing. Bad, bad writing.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;1753631]T'Challa has done far more than enough to deserve to be king. I thought he was written uneven in the whole Hickman arc. This isn't a bash on Hickman because I'm a big fan of his writing but I just thought his T'Challa was uneven.
But none of that matters when you compare what T'Challa has done over the entirety of his rule. He deserves to be king because he earned it. He suffered far worse at the hands of Doom in Deadliest of the Species and Doom War but no one was questioning his right to rule again. Coates deserves the chance to tell his story just like every other writer before him. and he should be judged on his work overall when he's done.[/QUOTE]
My esteemed friend and brotha from anotha Mother, as much as it pains me to do this, I'm just gonna have to disagree with you on this.
T'Challa betrayed Shuri when he chose to maintain planet-busting WMD's (he'd developed with Reed Richards) within Wakanda (albeit within the contrived conceit of the hitherto never before mentioned "Necropolis")
T'Challa went on to further compound the level of his perfidy by holding Thanos, Proxima Midnight, Corvus Glaive, Black Swan and Terrax the Enlightened incarcerated within the Necropolis which regardless of what arguments are presented here, still exists within Wakanda's boarders.
And please don't get me started on the whole Namor chilling like a wine sipping villain in Wakanda thing right under Shuri's nose.
It's pretty fair to say, that if any other character had pulled half of the crap that T'Challa was scripted as pulling, most reades would be accusing that character of high treason.
I fail to see why T'Challa should be given a pass in this regard.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1753965]OK, someone explain this to me...why did Shuri even get involved in this? Why seize transonic? What was the purpose of that?
Hell, why is T'Challa, Ororo, Shuri, and Wakanda in generally picking a side in that conflict? What was the point?
The more I look at AvX, the more this is simply bad writing. Bad, bad writing.[/QUOTE]
We never got Shuri's perspective so we'll have to speculate. But I would imagine Shuri considered the P5 global threats. The scale of it likely meant she believed they had to be involved.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1753965]OK, someone explain this to me...why did Shuri even get involved in this? Why seize transonic? What was the purpose of that?
Hell, why is T'Challa, Ororo, Shuri, and Wakanda in generally picking a side in that conflict? What was the point?
The more I look at AvX, the more this is simply bad writing. Bad, bad writing.[/QUOTE]
Bare bones...
- Phoenix was coming for Earth. Mutants knew it was coming for Hope. They saw the Phoenix force as something good that might save their race (remember, at this time there were only so many mutants and no new ones being born)
- Phoenix force coming for Earth. Avengers/Others figured out it was oming for Hope. Saw the Phoenix force as something destructive that would destroy everything.
- So, X-men saw good. Others (avengers, wakanda apparently) saw bad. FIGHT!
So, there you go. And IF Shuri/Wakanda saw the Phoenix force as a threat that could destroy EVERYTHING (Wakanda is part of everything), then it makes sense to use Wakanda's resources to fix the problem. And the Avengers were part of fixing the problem and hell... they ended up being right. They were able to stop Namor in the end. Phoenix was turning destructive and Scott went nuts (like they all do).
Was it horrid writing? Yes... there was so much OOC stuff happening it was insane. BUT... you can't simply say "bad writing" as people see fit. If it is written, it was written.
And that is what makes these Shuri vs T'challa arguments so idiotic. Shuri does something stupid (getting killed for no reason, inviting Namor to flood the place) and it is written off as "bad writing." T'challa does stuff stupid, and it is OMG TCHALLA IS MILQUETOAST
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1753976]
It's pretty fair to say, that if any other character had pulled half of the crap that T'Challa was scripted as pulling, most reades would be accusing that character of high treason.
[/QUOTE]
Naw, if it was Shuri you would just say "bad writing"
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1754019]And that is what makes these Shuri vs T'challa arguments so idiotic. Shuri does something stupid (getting killed for no reason, inviting Namor to flood the place) and it is written off as "bad writing." T'challa does stuff stupid, and it is OMG TCHALLA IS MILQUETOAST[/QUOTE]
I have criticized Hickman's overall portrayal of T'Challa many times over. Just like I have criticized the writing on AvX. And so have others.
The difference is, unlike AvX which is generally panned, there are many that like Hickman's overall portrayal of T'Challa. Which results in debates on whether or not the portrayal is accurate. Some say its fine. Other may say its milquetoast, among other things.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1754036]I have criticized Hickman's overall portrayal of T'Challa many times over. Just like I have criticized the writing on AvX. And so have others.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't directed at you
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1754019]Bare bones...
- Phoenix was coming for Earth. Mutants knew it was coming for Hope. They saw the Phoenix force as something good that might save their race (remember, at this time there were only so many mutants and no new ones being born)
- Phoenix force coming for Earth. Avengers/Others figured out it was oming for Hope. Saw the Phoenix force as something destructive that would destroy everything.
- So, X-men saw good. Others (avengers, wakanda apparently) saw bad. FIGHT!
So, there you go. And IF Shuri/Wakanda saw the Phoenix force as a threat that could destroy EVERYTHING (Wakanda is part of everything), then it makes sense to use Wakanda's resources to fix the problem. And the Avengers were part of fixing the problem and hell... they ended up being right. They were able to stop Namor in the end. Phoenix was turning destructive and Scott went nuts (like they all do).
Was it horrid writing? Yes... there was so much OOC stuff happening it was insane. BUT... you can't simply say "bad writing" as people see fit. If it is written, it was written.
And that is what makes these Shuri vs T'challa arguments so idiotic. Shuri does something stupid (getting killed for no reason, inviting Namor to flood the place) and it is written off as "bad writing." T'challa does stuff stupid, and it is OMG TCHALLA IS MILQUETOAST[/QUOTE]
It's probably important to note Phoenix was destroying every planet in its path. So the fact that earth was in its path likely gave T'Challa and Shuri reason to worry.
Also I imagine the P5 ordering every nation on earth to disarm probably didn't sit well with Shuri. Or any other works leader for that matter.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1753965]OK, someone explain this to me...why did Shuri even get involved in this? Why seize transonic? What was the purpose of that?
Hell, why is T'Challa, Ororo, Shuri, and Wakanda in generally picking a side in that conflict? What was the point?
The more I look at AvX, the more this is simply bad writing. Bad, bad writing.[/QUOTE]
AvX was the staging point for events leading up to Hickman's [B]Everything Dies/Time Runs Out[/B] saga.
There was ZERO reason for T'Challa, Ororo, Shuri or Wakanda to be involved in that event other than to provide a foundation for the destruction of the marriage as well the creation of a conflict between Namor and Wakanda.
AvX was a bad event designed to pave the way for all the crap that came in its aftermath.
[QUOTE=XPac;1754048]It's probably important to note Phoenix was destroying every planet in its path. So the fact that earth was in its path likely gave T'Challa and Shuri reason to worry.
Also I imagine the P5 ordering every nation on earth to disarm probably didn't sit well with Shuri. Or any other works leader for that matter.[/QUOTE]
we really don't know what her perspective was. She was barely in it except to arrest Transonic.
[QUOTE=XPac;1754002]We never got Shuri's perspective so we'll have to speculate. But I would imagine Shuri considered the P5 global threats. The scale of it likely meant she believed they had to be involved.[/QUOTE]
And yet, none of the writers thought it necessary to actually show Shuri doing anything other than saying "sieze the mutant" when Transonic popped up uninvited and unannounced in Wakanda.
Not one AvX writer thought it necessary to show Shuri responding to the X-Men invading her nation or the spectacle of her Sister-In-Law laying violent hands on T'Challa, the Queens own brother.
No, AvX was a joke through and through.
[QUOTE=neohuey89;1754065]we really don't know what her perspective was. She was barely in it except to arrest Transonic.[/QUOTE]
Which should tell you all you need to know about where the respective writers heads were at.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1754058]AvX was the staging point for events leading up to Hickman's [B]Everything Dies/Time Runs Out[/B] saga.
There was ZERO reason for T'Challa, Ororo, Shuri or Wakanda to be involved in that event other than to provide a foundation for the destruction of the marriage as well the creation of a conflict between Namor and Wakanda.
AvX was a bad event designed to pave the way for all the crap that came in its aftermath.[/QUOTE]
You know what's the crazy part?
Transonic and Shuri....are NOWHERE to be found after that scan!
No explanation, no interrogation, no exposition...nothing. We don't see them again.
I mean, how am I suppose to even take AvX bs seriously? All this to kill Xavier, kill Wakandans, severely damage Wakanda, and destroy a marriage? While making a bunch of characters look stupid along the way?
I knew AvX was trash, but damn...
EDIT: neohuey89 beat me to it, on Shuri's appearance in the event.
[QUOTE=neohuey89;1754065]we really don't know what her perspective was. She was barely in it except to arrest Transonic.[/QUOTE]
We do know by using our damn brains that...
- She was ruler of Wakanda
- Avengers were using Wakanda as a base. Not Necropolis... actual, true Wakanda
- Therefore... we know that Shuri had to have allowed it. They werent hiding... they were righ tint he middle of freaking Wakanda.
So anything that happened to Wakanda during that point falls on Shuri. That is the burden of the crown... right?
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1754086]You know what's the crazy part?
Transonic and Shuri....are NOWHERE to be found after that scan!
No explanation, no interrogation, no exposition...nothing. We don't see them again.
I mean, how am I suppose to even take AvX bs seriously? All this to kill Xavier, kill Wakandans, severely damage Wakanda, and destroy a marriage? While making a bunch of characters look stupid along the way? Wooooooooow......
I knew AvX was trash, but damn...
EDIT: neohuey89 beat me to it, on Shuri's appearance in the event.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it was dumb. It was bad writing all around. (I think it sold really freaking well tho so.. *shrug*)
It would take a whole other thread to contain all the shit in AvX.
But its still cannon unfortunately.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1754087]We do know by using our damn brains that...
- She was ruler of Wakanda
- Avengers were using Wakanda as a base. Not Necropolis... actual, true Wakanda
- Therefore... we know that Shuri had to have allowed it. They werent hiding... they were righ tint he middle of freaking Wakanda.
So anything that happened to Wakanda during that point falls on Shuri. That is the burden of the crown... right?[/QUOTE]
The whole damn scenario is, to be very blunt, stupid. Done for the sake of being done, with literally no explanation given. This falls squarely on the writer(s) and editorial. They literally haven't given us anything to work with. Hickman at least had the decency to give an explanation. Whether one felt it was a fair or solid explanation was the question.
Plus, Wakanda in general being involved in this? That's ridiculous in of itself. But once again, this was done purely to be done. And with certain agendas it appears.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1754086]You know what's the crazy part?
Transonic and Shuri....are NOWHERE to be found after that scan!
No explanation, no interrogation, no exposition...nothing. We don't see them again.
I mean, how am I suppose to even take AvX bs seriously? All this to kill Xavier, kill Wakandans, severely damage Wakanda, and destroy a marriage? While making a bunch of characters look stupid along the way?
I knew AvX was trash, but damn...
EDIT: neohuey89 beat me to it, on Shuri's appearance in the event.[/QUOTE]
Bro, some people saw the "event" for what it was, (just like Doomwar) and others chose not to.
It is what it is.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1754109]The whole damn scenario is, to be very blunt, stupid. Done for the sake of being done, with literally no explanation given. This falls squarely on the writer(s) and editorial. They literally haven't given us anything to work with. Hickman at least had the decency to give an explanation. Whether one felt it was a fair or solid explanation was the question.
Plus, Wakanda in general being involved in this? That's ridiculous in of itself. But once again, this was done purely to be done. And with certain agendas it appears.[/QUOTE]
I genuinely don't see how anyone can use the nonsense that occured during AvX to cast aspersions on Shuri's rulership capabilities when none of the writers concerned, seemed to realise how stuppid it was to have T'Challa unilaterally decide to invite the Avengers onto Wakandan soil without consulting with Shuri. (on or off panel)
One can actually argue that Hickman doubled down on this PIS type approach straight from AvX into his New Avengers book where T'Challa once again, invites outsiders onto Wakandan soil once again without consulting the actual QUEEN of the freaking country once again bringing death and destruction to Wakanda.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1754109]The whole damn scenario is, to be very blunt, stupid. Done for the sake of being done, with literally no explanation given. This falls squarely on the writer(s) and editorial. They literally haven't given us anything to work with. Hickman at least had the decency to give an explanation. Whether one felt it was a fair or solid explanation was the question.
Plus, Wakanda in general being involved in this? That's ridiculous in of itself. But once again, this was done purely to be done. And with certain agendas it appears.[/QUOTE]
The event was to...
- change x-men status quo by turning the x gene back on
- change cyclops status quo as a semi-villain to the public (make them feared again... reset back to the status quo)
- get rid fo the marriage
and... thats pretty much it lol. Even the Xavier thing was an afterthought
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1754124]I genuinely don't see how anyone can use the nonsense that occured during AvX to cast aspersions on Shuri's rulership capabilities when none of the writers concerned, seemed to realise how stuppid it was to have T'Challa unilaterally decide to invite the Avengers onto Wakandan soil without consulting with Shuri. (on or of panel)
[/QUOTE]
There is nothing on panel that says Shuri disagreed with them being there. And since she is queen... she had to invite them there.
Keep avoiding that part that to continue to smear campaign tho