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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3703179]Ooh, a Black Panther story I knew absolutely nothing about!
Black Panther Vol. 1 #8 - [i]Panthers or Pussycats?[/i]
[img]https://www.use.com/images/s_2/5d8081f1d7e8d4a815d1_1.jpg[/img]
This issue opens with the Black Panther fighting many foes in ritual combat. The caption says that the Black Panther has to fight any challenger once a year to ensure that he is the strongest and still fit to rule. After defeating many foes, he turns to fight a masked challenger. In the end, the masked challenger is victorious and reveals himself to be (hopefully to no surprise for anyone here) T'Challa! I would love if someone could chime in whether this story was ever previously told. To my recollection, this is the first time the idea of ritual combat for a challenge to the throne and T'Challa wearing a mask was introduced to the Black Panther mythos. These elements would persist in Black Panther in the future and would be re-told by Reginald Hudlin and drawn by John Romita Jr.
In present day, Wakanda is being attacked by a mutated Jakarra. One villager throws a spear at him, to no avail. Luckily, it turns out he's just thirsty and he ignores them for some jugs of goat milk. In response, N'Gassia has reached out to the royal family, but only finds four members who all seem ill-suited to the task. All of them are stuck up snobs. There's Khanata, who is a race car driver. There's Joshua Itobo, who we met last issue. He's a doctor who at least seems the most genuinely interested, even if he is small and naive. There are two others who I don't believe get names. One is involved in finance and the other is a large woman. Hopefully we'll find out more next time. Anyway, J'Karra attacks and Joshua Itobo tries to fend him off with fire. He's unsuccessful, but his bravery inspires the others to do something.
Meanwhile, T'Challa rescues some mobstes floating in the ocean. One points a gun at T'Challa and demands that he take his helicopter to Wakanda. When T'Challa refuses, gunfire breaks out and his helicopter crashes. He manages to rescue on mobster, but the other dies in the explosion. Resigned, T'Challa begins to walk towards Wakanda.
Jack Kirby isn't known for filler, but this is exactly what this feels like. It seems he has one idea - the rest of the royal family has to team up to fight a foe and T'Challa has to be delayed so he can't solve it. But everything in the issue is set around that stall. Even the royal family doesn't do much in this story. Aside from the contributions to the Panther mythos, there isn't much to point here. I'll have a lot more to say about Jack Kirby's Wakanda next issue, though.[/QUOTE]
These writeups of yours, are turning out to be quite informative as well as entertaining.
Keep up the good work. :)
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3703168]Unfortunately, I don't mean "Changing the script to make it better."
It's likely that it'd be more like "Changing the script to give M'Baku & Nakia bigger roles".[/QUOTE]
[B]Yeah it's more of a fantasy vs reality deal. I wish they would do that, just tell him to elevate T'Challa and Wakanda to truly make him apart of the "Big 4"[/B]
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[QUOTE=DragonsChi;3703174]This.
It truly has been a long time since we had a solid start to finish BP run.
A lot of people look to Hickman's Illuminati as the "ideal" BP but truth be told there where so many places in that run that made T'Challa look like a naive child that I can not claim it as his truth. That run is for those who like "feats" over substance. Which I must admit that there is nothing wrong with but instead that I personally would just like more.
At this point I am growing very weary of holding on to hope for this character to be what he should be again. I would like to say as a whole BP fans are not looking for a Mary Sue, a Peter Parker, nor a Bruce Wayne when coming into Black Panther. Instead we are looking for a well scripted king that makes readers actually care about him, instead of this weak [B]insta grat[/B] dribble we have been getting with Coats run.[/QUOTE]
[B]Thing is, most of the feats in Hickmans NA, happened off panel, or he had help with it. So it's not as though it was dripping with feats either. Really Liss is the last writer to actually respect T'Challa (Evans too butbhisnis more of a year one mini, if it turns to an ongoing then I would count it([/B]
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You folks know me... I'm not as interested in feats as most. But it does seem to me that Liss was the last BP writer to be interested in T'Challa AS A CHARACTER, unlike TNC, who treats characters as mouthpieces for his Message™, or Hickman, who treats them as cogs in his story.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3703348]You folks know me... I'm not as interested in feats as most. But it does seem to me that Liss was the last BP writer to be interested in T'Challa AS A CHARACTER, unlike TNC, who treats characters as mouthpieces for his Message™, or Hickman, who treats them as cogs in his story.[/QUOTE]
[B] Funny thing is, if you take an interest in treating the character right, feats come naturally and organically. [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3703358][B] Funny thing is, if you take an interest in treating the character right, feats come naturally and organically. [/B][/QUOTE]
I suppose, but I'm not really talking about that. I'm talking about treating your characters as having an inner life outside their roles in the plot.
Case in point... who do we know more about: Sofija or Akeli?
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3703348]You folks know me... I'm not as interested in feats as most. But it does seem to me that Liss was the last BP writer to be interested in T'Challa AS A CHARACTER, unlike TNC, who treats characters as mouthpieces for his Message™, or Hickman, who treats them as cogs in his story.[/QUOTE]
I am in total agreement with Ezyo and yourself as regards David Liss's excellen character based work.
He totall got T'Challa and his supporting cast.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3703399]I suppose, but I'm not really talking about that. I'm talking about treating your characters as having an inner life outside their roles in the plot.
Case in point... who do we know more about: Sofija or Akeli?[/QUOTE]
[B] Sofija, but both are basically open for exploration. Atleast Liss didn't create a bunch of side Characters who take the job the title Character is supposed to do, or worse, use a side Character to Job the main villain which Makes Tchalla look like garbage for losing to him in the first place[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3703297][B]Yeah it's more of a fantasy vs reality deal. I wish they would do that, just tell him to elevate T'Challa and Wakanda to truly make him apart of the "Big 4"[/B][/QUOTE]
That's really more on Aaron than Coates. How elevcated he is in his solo won't mean much if he's bot showcased in Avengers and what ever company wide event they are building towards. You can't have the big 4 without the big 3.
That said, Aarons seems to like using BP so I think he's in good hands.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3703399]I suppose, but I'm not really talking about that. I'm talking about treating your characters as having an inner life outside their roles in the plot.
Case in point... who do we know more about: Sofija or Akeli?[/QUOTE]
You can argue he made an effort with the Midnight Angels. But yeah ... taking a bit more time to flesh out the lives of the supporting cast beyond their day jobs helping Wakanda would be nice.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3703621]That's really more on Aaron than Coates. How elevcated he is in his solo won't mean much if he's bot showcased in Avengers and what ever company wide event they are building towards. You can't have the big 4 without the big 3.
That said, Aarons seems to like using BP so I think he's in good hands.[/QUOTE]
[B] Elevating a character and showing how even in deconstruction, or redemption, or simple elevation, a character should be shown as competent and not have his entire franchise turned upside down, with the changes not being for the betterment[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3703666][B] Elevating a character and showing how even in deconstruction, or redemption, or simple elevation, a character should be shown as competent and not have his entire franchise turned upside down, with the changes not being for the betterment[/B][/QUOTE]
Honestly I think he seems pretty darn competent as we speak in the solo book, but that's sort of besides the point. Becoming the Big 4 requires more than competence.... it requires high profile showing in Avengers and big events. There are plenty of competent heroes who aren't and frankly never will be at that level.
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Hey, been a while. Hope all is well.
I want to go ahead and call it now. I think the Ultimates MCU is happening. I have a feeling they'll be the rumored post Avengers 4/IW franchise. The rumors of Monica Rambeau debuting in Captain Marvel's film as well as those suggesting Black Panther will make a cameo have convinced me they'll be headlining their own team soon. Similar to what Captain America and Iron-Man were for the Avengers.
Something else has me convinced as well.... The MCU has strong ties to a mobile game titled Marvel Future fight. With every film the MCU releases, Future Fight receives an update to go along with it in the way of skills, uniforms, missions, etc. Well, a year to a year and a half before Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Infinity Wars were released, Future Fight dropped updates that featured a lot of the characters that eventually debuted in the aforementioned films: Hela, Surtur, Black Panther, Thanos, the Black Order, etc. Additionally, they added two chapters of story mode missions for the Asgardian characters, as well as a series of end game boss modes for Thanos and the Black Order. Why? Brand continuity would be my guess. To date, Future Fight has been downloaded 77 million times, making it an effective medium to familiarize unfamiliar persons with Marvel characters ahead of their MCU debut.
Keeping that in mind, at the beginning of December, shortly after Ragnarok, Future Fight dropped an "Ultimates Update" out of nowhere that included Blue Marvel, Anti-Man, America Chavez, Nova, and Quasar. I say "out of nowhere", because none of these characters were in high demand. Along with the characters came a series of story mode missions based on Ewings 2015 Ultimates arc that ended in you fighting Thanos. Now, There's a couple of things to note about this update. First, Blue Marvel, Anti-Man, and Nova are ridiculously overpowered. They continue to define the meta to this day along with IW characters, Jean Grey, Wolverine, and Black Panther. Secondly, this marked the first time you could effectively farm Captain Marvel & Black Panther biometrics(resource used to build characters). Sure enough, Black Panther's film released shortly after, with Captain Marvel's soon to follow.
I could be looking too far into all of this, but I have a pretty good feeling about it. I suspect we'll be given a hint post credits of Captain Marvel's film.
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[QUOTE=Harsh Lesson;3703846]Hey, been a while. Hope all is well.
I want to go ahead and call it now. I think the Ultimates MCU is happening. I have a feeling they'll be the rumored post Avengers 4/IW franchise. The rumors of Monica Rambeau debuting in Captain Marvel's film as well as those suggesting Black Panther will make a cameo have convinced me they'll be headlining their own team soon. Similar to what Captain America and Iron-Man were for the Avengers.
Something else has me convinced as well.... The MCU has strong ties to a mobile game titled Marvel Future fight. With every film the MCU releases, Future Fight receives an update to go along with it in the way of skills, uniforms, missions, etc. Well, a year to a year and a half before Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Infinity Wars were released, Future Fight dropped updates that featured a lot of the characters that eventually debuted in the aforementioned films: Hela, Surtur, Black Panther, Thanos, the Black Order, etc. Additionally, they added two chapters of story mode missions for the Asgardian characters, as well as a series of end game boss modes for Thanos and the Black Order. Why? Brand continuity would be my guess. To date, Future Fight has been downloaded 77 million times, making it an effective medium to familiarize unfamiliar persons with Marvel characters ahead of their MCU debut.
Keeping that in mind, at the beginning of December, shortly after Ragnarok, Future Fight dropped an "Ultimates Update" out of nowhere that included Blue Marvel, Anti-Man, America Chavez, Nova, and Quasar. I say "out of nowhere", because none of these characters were in high demand. Along with the characters came a series of story mode missions based on Ewings 2015 Ultimates arc that ended in you fighting Thanos. Now, There's a couple of things to note about this update. First, Blue Marvel, Anti-Man, and Nova are ridiculously overpowered. They continue to define the meta to this day along with IW characters, Jean Grey, Wolverine, and Black Panther. Secondly, this marked the first time you could effectively farm Captain Marvel & Black Panther biometrics(resource used to build characters). Sure enough, Black Panther's film released shortly after, with Captain Marvel's soon to follow.
I could be looking too far into all of this, but I have a pretty good feeling about it. I suspect we'll be given a hint post credits of Captain Marvel's film.[/QUOTE]
In the least I think there's a fairly strong possibility that Black Panther and Captain Marvel will be the big headliners on the MCU Avengers, much like they were in the Ultimates. I'm not sure we'll get a roster resembling the one in Ewings book, but a heavy hitter team with Carol and T'Challa taking lead is a pretty strong possibility.
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[QUOTE=Harsh Lesson;3703846]Hey, been a while. Hope all is well.
I want to go ahead and call it now. I think the Ultimates MCU is happening. I have a feeling they'll be the rumored post Avengers 4/IW franchise. The rumors of Monica Rambeau debuting in Captain Marvel's film as well as those suggesting Black Panther will make a cameo have convinced me they'll be headlining their own team soon. Similar to what Captain America and Iron-Man were for the Avengers.
Something else has me convinced as well.... The MCU has strong ties to a mobile game titled Marvel Future fight. With every film the MCU releases, Future Fight receives an update to go along with it in the way of skills, uniforms, missions, etc. Well, a year to a year and a half before Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Infinity Wars were released, Future Fight dropped updates that featured a lot of the characters that eventually debuted in the aforementioned films: Hela, Surtur, Black Panther, Thanos, the Black Order, etc. Additionally, they added two chapters of story mode missions for the Asgardian characters, as well as a series of end game boss modes for Thanos and the Black Order. Why? Brand continuity would be my guess. To date, Future Fight has been downloaded 77 million times, making it an effective medium to familiarize unfamiliar persons with Marvel characters ahead of their MCU debut.
Keeping that in mind, at the beginning of December, shortly after Ragnarok, Future Fight dropped an "Ultimates Update" out of nowhere that included Blue Marvel, Anti-Man, America Chavez, Nova, and Quasar. I say "out of nowhere", because none of these characters were in high demand. Along with the characters came a series of story mode missions based on Ewings 2015 Ultimates arc that ended in you fighting Thanos. Now, There's a couple of things to note about this update. First, Blue Marvel, Anti-Man, and Nova are ridiculously overpowered. They continue to define the meta to this day along with IW characters, Jean Grey, Wolverine, and Black Panther. Secondly, this marked the first time you could effectively farm Captain Marvel & Black Panther biometrics(resource used to build characters). Sure enough, Black Panther's film released shortly after, with Captain Marvel's soon to follow.
[B]I could be looking too far into all of this, but I have a pretty good feeling about it. I suspect we'll be given a hint post credits of Captain Marvel's film.[/B][/QUOTE]
You are.
FF has always pulled from movies heavily but they are guessing based on the same information the public gets (and maybe a touch more).
They have also heavily pulled from the comics as well. But they are also guessing from the comics. Like how they guessed Unworthy Thor would end up with Ultimate Mjolnir based off of a cover of Unworthy Thor mini. They were wrong lol.
The Ultimates is just another example of them pulling something from the comics that allowed them to pump out more characters to put behind a paywall to make more money. They whole business model is based on paywall characters and uniforms. So they are constnatnly on the hunt for different characters to fill those niches. Ultimates just gave them a chance they do that.
Hell, they put Kid Kaiju behind a paywall and no one was asking for Kid Kaiju at all period lol. But, comics had an event so they tied into it. It is just what MFF does.
Does that mean we won't get an ultimates team? Of course not... I think it is very possible. I also think it is very possible it won't be the overpowered mega destroyers the comic version was though. If the team has anything close to comic accurate BM, Spectrum, Chavez, and CM are on a team... they is nothing for MCU T'challa to do, who would be the main lead and "draw" of the team.
It also makes no sense to have MCU T'challa going off to space to do stuff. Dude hasn't even left Wakanda to do Avengers level stuff. The tribal council didn't even want him to go personally get Klaue. It would be a wild change for the character to suddenly turn into a space cop. If they do "Ultimates," I believe it would just be the new brand name for the Avengers basically. So, Ultimate Universe Ultimates, not 616.