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[QUOTE=phumgano;3263387]He didn't give them what they wanted, they took it from him by fighting him and his forces. There's a big difference between yielding and giving. Getting impeached isn't the same as stepping down. The "villains" weren't villains at all, that word implies that they were evil when they weren't.
The only people who had an evil motive were T'challa and those rapists. A head of state(who doesn't even want to be King) refusing to give away his power to the people who are suffering and mostly because of his decisions is always the villain.[/QUOTE]
They didn't take anything from T'Challa at all ... he beat the people and put down the revolution. He gave them democracy after he won the battle.
And he's still the king, so he wasn't impeached
And yes, the people using mind control and suicide bombers were the villains.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3263436]They didn't take anything from T'Challa at all ... [B]he beat the people and put down the revolution. He gave them democracy after he won the battle. [/B]
And he's still the king, so he wasn't impeached
And yes, the people using mind control and suicide bombers were the villains.[/QUOTE]
Can you not see how the bold makes him the bad guy? He was actively fighting against democracy. There's literally a line where Ramonda shuts up a state official and she says "Wakanda isn't THAT democratic". It's hardly a win when you think about the needless deaths he caused trying to keep his power, power that he doesn't even want.
They took the Jabari lands, they took the Dora, the Midnight Angels, the majority of the HZ. T'challa's spot as the hero in a the monthly book called "Black Panther". The moral high ground, oh wait T'challa never had that one.
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3263429]I've been saying this for the longest time. T'challa sent his little sister into a fire-fight to basically tell the women of Wakanda that were that they needed to take one for the team. And then the coward couldn't face his own people in the late moments of the war and he got Changamire to do it for him. When they finally backed T'challa into a moral corner he basically just said "You all need me incase Doom come back so I'm staying a the head of state, whether you all want me to or not".
The last time they tangled, T'challa got his ass whooped, let Wakandans die and kissed Dooms feet and thanked him. T'challa will beat him with the force push next time though, I'm sure.
How anybody can actually claim to be a fan of Coates "T'challa(T'challa the man, I'm not talking about the story) is beyond me. It's 2deep4me.[/QUOTE]
And it so funny because the second arc was shaping up to be a traditional hero vs monsters story, but that got torpedoed for now. lol
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3263471]Can you not see how the bold makes him the bad guy? He was actively fighting against democracy. There's literally a line where Ramonda shuts up a state official and she says "Wakanda isn't THAT democratic". It's hardly a win when you think about the needless deaths he caused trying to keep his power, power that he doesn't even want.
They took the Jabari lands, they took the Dora, the Midnight Angels, the majority of the HZ. T'challa's spot as the hero in a the monthly book called "Black Panther". The moral high ground, oh wait T'challa never had that one.[/QUOTE]
Can you not see how mind control and suicide bombers don't make the People the bad guys?
One the actual super villains were beaten, he have the Wakandans democracy, so I don't see the problem.
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[QUOTE=Prof. Warren;3263265]The ending of Secret Empire was not changed by petitions. Cap was always going to be restored to his heroic self. Anyone who thinks that Marvel planned out a long term storyline where the ending was Steve Rogers remaining a fascist and that they only averted those plans due to a fan petition is plainly crazy. [/QUOTE]
blah blah blah. Already addressed.
[QUOTE=Rumble;3262654]Comics have to reset at some point, whether in months, years or decades. My point is the speed of which it happens and extent of the lingering effects can always be influenced, especially if by pressure being put on by the consumer.
Is Rhodey going to be dead forever? (well he's black, so you never know), would John Stewart have been dead forever? (well, he's black, so you never know). But if people speak up, that whole "part of the master plan *wink*" revival would happen sooner rather than later.
Would 10 years of post Hydra Steve Rogers deconstructed ala Black Panther have happened? (well, he's white, so probably not) Doesn't matter now tho, b/c Marvel knew fans didn't want any more lingering effects from that ish.
Would Bendis have gotten his wish of keeping Bruce Banner dead for a long time if people weren't complaining about all legacy hero swaps? Well b/c of all that complaining, "they all coming back"... except for Bendis and Axel Alfonso. All part of the plan, even those two leaving.
The point being that the protests (whether be petitions, social media stuff, videos, or all the aforementioned) can and have all influenced Marvel/DC to speed up the 'it was all a part of the plan' clean up in the past, to varying extents. I'm waiting for the 'it was all part of the plan' Blade series (not the team book) to happen, but i admittedly haven't done my due diligence in protesting for that.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3263471]Can you not see how the bold makes him the bad guy? He was actively fighting against democracy. [/QUOTE]
The people he defeated were Nigandans and mind-controlled Wakandans (and a few supervillains). That's not democracy. He addressed the people's actual concerns once the threat from invaders was over.
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3263349]"If you don't like the same book I do, you're unhinged and crazy". LMFAO. Why am I getting vivid flashbacks to high school when people were arguing over Harry Potter?
The reason people think that it may be your first time read BP is that whenever people show up to this thread they lead of by saying that people here are only upset because T'challa isn't a Mary sue or some variation of that.
It's also REALLY difficult to believe that anybody that likes the story is a fan of T'challa himself. He was framed as an anti-villain, he was a head of state that refused to give up his power and he forced his people into a civil war because of it. I don't now how anybody can root for that guy. You don't root for the Empire during Star Wars so why are you rooting for the Wakandan government(T'challa)?
The very concept of this story doesn't work if T'challa is acting in character.[/QUOTE]
Facts.
Also, I can't speak for any new posters or BP readers who might venture here, but in regards to the usual "suspects" that post here, dubbed as unfans, their objective is to praise anything that makes BP look like **** and will argue everything from how the ending of Doom War was great, to being anti-Wakandan love interest so they can continue parading on about how BP has a foreign-fetish that causes all his problems. It doesn't matter what the topic, it'll be victim blaming at the titular character.
They aren't rooting for BP, they're rooting for unfortunate things to happen to BP so they can talk out their ass about it. The concept for that in this board is nothing new, as there's a historical precedence. Ta-Nehisi is just the newest drug for those usual suspects to get high off of.
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[QUOTE=iblogalot;3263204]Just popping to say that, as a former fan of the series, this latest revelation about the so-called true history of Wakanda is the last straw for me. I cannot defend that in any way, shape or form. Looks like you guys were right about him after all. I am dropping the title now. Will not buy another Coates-written book ever.[/QUOTE]
From a comic book store-
"Biggest disappointment of the week: we sold zero copies of Black Panther off the shelf. Zero."
[QUOTE]
If someone defends Coates' run on these boards, the response is usually along the lines of "this must be your first exposure to BP!" as if one couldn't be a long time BP reader and possibly appreciate Coates' run as well.
I hope Coates stays on BP for a long, long time just to drive the haters crazy. The reaction to his run among some here is completely unhinged.
[/QUOTE]
Because many of the folks who pop up in here tend to say Coates's run is their first exposure to BP.
Then you have some folks who lead the hate charge towards Panther after a certain marriage ended-suddenly are interested. They were offended by showing a strong black man as a lead but Coates water down version is acceptable.
The BULL in this book done to Black Panther would never be allowed to be done to others. No way on Earth Duke Thomas would be able to take over Batman nor talk down to him like a runaway slave like Storm has.
You will not see Steve Rodgers book become a stealth Sharon Carter book like this one has with Midnight Angels & Storm.
The reaction here unlike with OTHER fans is HINGED.
We are not setting fired to Black Panther books.
We are not cussing out folk for reading this book.
We are not recruiting folks to boycott the book.
We are not using previews to encourage other fanbases to attack the book.
We are not saying (blank) is being setup to replace Black Panther.
Unlike X-Men, Tim Drake, Hal Jordan, Wally West, Shawn James, Diversity & Comics, store retailers & their respective stans are doing.
We are doing what John Stewart fans have done WALKED away and let the low sales begin.
If it hurts Storm & Midnight Angels-who cares. This book is not theirs. If I want to see Hotel Rwanda or the various messed up African nations stories-I';; go read/watch them. I don't need them in this book.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3263402]I was in the gym today and I was thinking "is Tchalla and WK the villain" in this story? lol. [B]Shuri had her villain moment when she said it was okay to be raped as long as the Golden City doesn't fall.[/B][/QUOTE]
I wonder whether Shuri will be repeating such [I]fantastic [/I]quotes like that in the movie, cartoon and video games?
It would only be further grounding Wakanda in realism right?
[Harvey Weinstein] It's ok to be raped as long as you get the big role in the movie! [/Harvey Weinstein]
This is what people want right?
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;3263555]From a comic book store-
"Biggest disappointment of the week: we sold zero copies of Black Panther off the shelf. Zero."
[B]Because many of the folks who pop up in here tend to say Coates's run is their first exposure to BP.[/B]
Then you have some folks who lead the hate charge towards Panther after a certain marriage ended-suddenly are interested. They were offended by showing a strong black man as a lead but Coates water down version is acceptable.
The BULL in this book done to Black Panther would never be allowed to be done to others. No way on Earth Duke Thomas would be able to take over Batman nor talk down to him like a runaway slave like Storm has.
You will not see Steve Rodgers book become a stealth Sharon Carter book like this one has with Midnight Angels & Storm.
The reaction here unlike with OTHER fans is HINGED.
We are not setting fired to Black Panther books.
We are not cussing out folk for reading this book.
We are not recruiting folks to boycott the book.
We are not using previews to encourage other fanbases to attack the book.
We are not saying (blank) is being setup to replace Black Panther.
Unlike X-Men, Tim Drake, Hal Jordan, Wally West, Shawn James, Diversity & Comics, store retailers & their respective stans are doing.
We are doing what John Stewart fans have done WALKED away and let the low sales begin.
If it hurts Storm & Midnight Angels-who cares. This book is not theirs. If I want to see Hotel Rwanda or the various messed up African nations stories-I';; go read/watch them. I don't need them in this book.[/QUOTE]
[B]new fan:[/B] "Bbb-but this is not my first exposure to BP.."
[B]*2 seconds later*[/B]
"...but gee golly i sho like how mistah Tah-neh-hi-shi made wakanda no more a purrfect ideal society no more!"
"...and I like how teh'challa ain't no mary gary stew no more!"
[B]Rumble:[/B] Yes new "fans", spot on astute assessment! T'Challa and Wakanda have long been overdue for some humbling and deconstruction for years now! Glad it finally got started in 2016/2017!
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3263597]
[B]Rumble:[/B] Yes new "fans", spot on astute assessment! T'Challa and Wakanda have long been overdue for some humbling and deconstruction for years now! Glad it finally got started in 2016/2017![/QUOTE]
[Img]http://s1.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/shaq-laughing-press-conference-shaq-gifs.gif[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Prof. Warren;3263265] I hope Coates stays on BP for a long, long time just to drive the haters crazy.[/QUOTE]
He will drive the sales into the ground before that.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3263353][B] The reason people say this must be their first time is based on what they actually say, not just because someone states they like the run. When people say " he is exploring things no other writer has done" or " he is Humanized T'Challa and made him relatable" or "his run is very deep and multifaceted" when literally every other run pre Coates have been deeper and multifaceted, all without relying on offensive stereotypes, it leads people to say that. Most people who have commented they like the run usually aren't very well versed in BPs mythos.
The main thing is that long time fans or big fans of Bp don't appreciate a bunch of stereotypes of Africa that Coates introduced. Why escape to comics to read about your favorite hero Being too"distracted" and mopey to stop rape on his country? Why read about your favorite hero going and getting advice for despots for how to deal with his people "just to see what they would say" they gets tricked by them (something even casuals were saying what the heck about)?
Coates has a very poor view of Black males, and it shows. So why should younger generation read this and start developing such a poor view of themselves? By someone saying " it's not realistic for him to want to be King" " it's not realistic for him to have that many beautiful women around him and not take advantage of it?"
He doesn't want to be King (continuity proves otherwise on multiple occasions) and he would rather indulge in being a scientist (while praising the likes of Doom and Maximus as being better then him essentially) instead of being King.
It's the message being sent and really, it's very poor because it's very offensive to everything the BP mythos stands for[/B][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]This post here.
Exactly what has Coates done to humanize T'Challa that Priest or Don Mac hasn't done?
Just about every time someone says that people don't like Coates' story because it's wordy or cerebral it's a freaking joke. Don Mac and Priest were more verbose than Coates with each telling very complex stories that required you to pay attention. The difference is that Priest didn't chump T'Challa out during the process. Did he put him through adversity? Did he have T'Challa fail? He did. But he darn sure didn't compromise T'Challa's character or turn a Wakanda into some Third World country in the process.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Prof. Warren;3263265]The ending of Secret Empire was not changed by petitions. Cap was always going to be restored to his heroic self. Anyone who thinks that Marvel planned out a long term storyline where the ending was Steve Rogers remaining a fascist and that they only averted those plans due to a fan petition is plainly crazy.
If someone defends Coates' run on these boards, the response is usually along the lines of "this must be your first exposure to BP!" as if one couldn't be a long time BP reader and possibly appreciate Coates' run as well.
[B]I hope Coates stays on BP for a long, long time just to drive the haters crazy. The reaction to his run among some here is completely unhinged[/B].[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Which haters? Coates or BP? Speaking for myself, I'm not a Coates hater. He could be a great writer in other fields or on other characters. His Black Panther is just utter dreck as far as I'm concerned with nothing redeeming or worthwhile about it.
If Coates stays it only hurts BP. A growing dissatisfaction with how he's handling T'Challa with seriously declining sales to match.
Some may call it critically acclaimed but there are just as many critics who find serious flaws in his run. And it's not just people on HEF or CBR either.
[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3263712][COLOR="#000080"]This post here.
Exactly what has Coates done to humanize T'Challa that Priest or Don Mac hasn't done?
Just about every time someone says that people don't like Coates' story because it's wordy or cerebral it's a freaking joke. Don Mac and Priest were more verbose than Coates with each telling very complex stories that required you to pay attention. The difference is that Priest didn't chump T'Challa out during the process. Did he put him through adversity? Did he have T'Challa fail? He did. But he darn sure didn't compromise T'Challa's character or turn a Wakanda into some Third World country in the process.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[B]Exactly Dm was wordy as no other, Priest was very wordy too and you had to pay attention (but the words being said were brilliant) as they were deep and complex.
I personally do not like McGregor's run, however, during his tenure he did alot for the mythos and gave Tchalla alot of feats. Priest and Hudlin were feat city. Mayberrys garbage produced some decent thing's to mine from. Coates has Been on for 20 issue's (26 of you include Bp & Crew) yet no one has yet to be able to give a Major feat or major achievement in the entirety of his run besides "he turned the MA back into Allies".. that's his big shining moment,
turning former allies back into allies by exonerating all of their crimes even though they were the cause of the chain issues to start with... So epic.[/B]