-
[QUOTE=Danvidar;101113]I don't mean to start anything but Atlantis was jobbed, ironicly in the same way Wakanda sometimes is. Atlantis has advanced tech and military cabability. A surprise attack by the equally advanced Wakandans could do alot of damage, but to completly destroy the whole city? The atleanteans were presented as a walkover nonthreat, which diminishes what should have been a victory over a worthy foe to a one sided curbstomp. Which is more satisfying a hardwon victory over a equaly matched foe or an eady victory over an apparently helpless opponent?[/QUOTE]
Contrarly to most military propaganda ideally in war you want to strike your opponents in their most unprepared state so surprise attacking Atlantis was another measure of Wakandan intelligence and ability. Also the more advanced the military the more advanced the destructive power of the weapons available, are antimatter/anti metal/nuclear/whatever scifi thing is hip bombs being able to level a city strange? of course not. Even with advanced defences with the element of surprise all it would take would be for one missile to get through and Atlantis is in ruins. Atlantis did not lay down and get jobbed, it got hit with Pearl Harbour type of attack.
I stand by the post you quoted and i wont discuss this further before it becomes an argument that disrupts this tread.
-
@MouserGray
3. Hudlin'd strength is as a film director/producer so the first 6 issues of his Black Panther run were not originally a part of the main Marvel universe but looked more like a storyboard for a movie than a comic book which was probably the intent of bringing him abroad as writer in the first place!
4. The heart shaped herb was something earned in the beginning but yeah the power ups problem can be remedied by making it a regular part of his diet or a one time power up that alters his body chemistry like the super soldier serum did Captain America for good!
5. What I mean by mystic mumbo jumbo is that in the super hero world there is usually a rational scientific explanation for each power or skill set to the viewing audience even if all the characters in the inner circle are not privy to this information... Now just because Steve Rogers goes to church does not mean that a writer should have God literally speaking to him as his chosen son since God is not a respecter of persons but if your god dwells in a Wakandan basement and can have Reed Richards stand like a god beside god as that god speaks to T'challa about becoming his champion after all that Reed has seen witnessing that should push him closer to atheism than ever!
Mister Fantastic could have stretched his arms and choked Bast out right then and there and became T'challa's god by default... Magic is as Thor explained in the first movie as something that science has not explained yet but eventually will!
6. Just as Star Wars is a long time ago in a galaxy far far away so too should Wakanda keep it's 10,000 year history to add the fantasy... 1000 years is thinking in the natural to appease basic historical understanding but Wakanda lives in a universe that could have Galactus land on earth and consume it at a moments notice!
8. It wasn't the Ewoks or Jar Jar Binks that begin the downward spiral of Star Wars it was this scene right here where Obi Wan proved that all Luke had to do was wait a few minutes and recently deceased Yoda would join them both for tea and crumpets...
[video=youtube_share;MFz8W7fYMy4]http://youtu.be/MFz8W7fYMy4[/video]
9. Shuri is not cool yet because her origin does not feature an "Earned" status as having done anything but jump right into action as a retcon character... You can't convince more than the 9,999 fans that bought her failed comic otherwise which is what matters most!
Placing her in the Dora Academy where she scores well on tests administered by her own sisterhood is best not just thrusting her out there to push buttons on Atlantis before you even know who she really is other than someone to replace T'challa on the throne to free him up while still keeping her in active super hero duty!
The origin's of T'challa are rich with his tests in all manner of skill building up his super hero status while Shuri is a rush job that still struggles to find her place in the Marvel universe... Black Widow is cool... She Hulk is cool... Storm is cool... Shuri is a retcon end of!
10. Namor like Doom is a default rogues gallery member only when it is expedient to sell Black Panther as a character!
11. HELL NAW... But funny!
12. Bring it!
13. Word building with key geographic and topologic locations is always welcome!
14. There is a fake jungle that has not been used recently!
15. Spacesuits packed and ready your majesty!
16. Talking to the dead is necromancy and associated with occult witchcraft... Are you sure you want a major black super hero going there when there are far less controversial routes that could so easily be traveled?
Vibranium absorbs energy and sound... Why could not the echoes of Black Panthers past be hidden within the sound sustaining chambers of time sort of like in the Christopher Reeve Superman movies where he can draw upon his mother and father's wisdom even though they are deceased?
Imagine T'challa having the recorded history of past battle scenes absorbed within the sound chambers of vibranium for study like football game film!
He can review Wakanda's defense strategies over time and fortify the kingdom... My bad I was saving this for later but FRAK IT this is so obvious though!
He would have 10,000 years worth of recorded knowledge and could even trace the origin of the vibranium meteor by it's own recording of it's own space travel!
I just let the cat out of the bag on that one but vibranium is such a plot rescuing device that you did not need all those extra incentives like King of The Dead to have him explore the past... Hickman should just steal that from me right now and run with it wholesale and ditch the Last Airbender talking to past Avatars schtick!
17. Like this here...
[url]https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/article/avatar-building-a-virtual-3d-art-department/[/url]
-
[QUOTE=Zuri;101435]Contrarly to most military propaganda ideally in war you want to strike your opponents in their most unprepared state so surprise attacking Atlantis was another measure of Wakandan intelligence and ability. Also the more advanced the military the more advanced the destructive power of the weapons available, are antimatter/anti metal/nuclear/whatever scifi thing is hip bombs being able to level a city strange? of course not. Even with advanced defences with the element of surprise all it would take would be for one missile to get through and Atlantis is in ruins. Atlantis did not lay down and get jobbed, it got hit with Pearl Harbour type of attack.
I stand by the post you quoted and i wont discuss this further before it becomes an argument that disrupts this tread.[/QUOTE]
Here is my final post on the subject since I too don't want an argument. Surprise attacking Atlantis makes strategic sense so I have no problem with that. The Attack doing tremendous damage Pearl Harbour style is also logical so again no problem. What I have a problem with is what we are shown or rather not shown of the fight. We see a fleet of at least 10 ships arrive around Atlantis, Wakanda has great stealth tech so I can by that. At least 8 missiles are launched towards Atlantis. Each one seems to be of the conventional rather than city-busting variety since we see one structure being hit by two. Next panel we see Wakandan troops engaged in a firefight with Atlantean soldiers. The Wakandan fleet has presumably stopped the bombardment as to not hit they're own men, the Wakandans with guns gunning down the Atleanteans who are wielding swords (ordinary swords not even high-tech weaponry in the shape of a sword) and we cut to the aftermath with most of the city in rubble and Namor raging amist the bodies of his countrymen, with 1 Wakandan body in the picture.
I get Hickman was going for the short sharp shock of the assault and in that manner it works. However so often in New Avengers a fight is either not shown, shown screenshots of it in flashback or over very quickly. The assault and destruction of Atlantis, a key feature in the war was covered in 1 page, not even one issue, one page. I hate this one sided portrayal of the war and diminishment of Atlantis as apparently sword wielding barbarians next to the high tech Wakandans. This disregards Atlantis' own tech level and their prespective of the war, I don't like one sided views on conflicts. If a series is showing a war, especially one between two nations with a martial mindset such as Atlantis and Wakanda, you expect to see the point of view of both sides, the generals meeting, plans discussed, the reactions of key individuals to events. We have seen the Wakandan point of view, where is the Atlantean?
Again I in no way mean any disrespect to Wakanda, their plan was strategical sound and they have the technology to pull it off. I understand the reasoning behind their assault and can sympathise it is just the way it was shown that bothers me.
-
The war between Wakanda and Atlantis is like a war between Star Wars and Star Trek!
They both have weapons of mass destruction and in a case of PIS either side could win depending upon if the writer favored one franchise over the other!
I can certainly sympathize with a Namor fan worried about being jobbed to Black Panther especially since these two used to be good friends and trusted allies but Hickman started on a path to highlight and boost Black Panther and it just so happened that Namor was a victim of strategic planning for that pre-announced agenda!
When it is all said and done things will be back to normal or not assuming that a new regime of writers come in and place their own mark upon the Marvel universe!
Just endure it like most Black Panther fans have over the years and make halftime adjustments accordingly... Asgard is next on Wakanda's hitless so stay tuned!
Some writer just wrote me beating Lebron James one on one... I swear I dunked on him when his back was turned after I coldly crossed him over!
Did I mention he was drugged before the game... Or maybe I stabbed him before we played who knows?
[video=youtube_share;WpbuTeAuJWA]http://youtu.be/WpbuTeAuJWA[/video]
-
[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;102000]The war between Wakanda and Atlantis is like a war between Star Wars and Star Trek!
They both have weapons of mass destruction and in a case of PIS either side could win depending upon if the writer favored one franchise over the other!
I can certainly sympathize with a Namor fan worried about being jobbed to Black Panther especially since these two used to be good friends and trusted allies but Hickman started on a path to highlight and boost Black Panther and it just so happened that Namor was a victim of strategic planning for that pre-announced agenda!
When it is all said and done things will be back to normal or not assuming that a new regime of writers come in and place their own mark upon the Marvel universe!
Just endure it like most Black Panther fans have over the years and make halftime adjustments accordingly... Asgard is next on Wakanda's hitless so stay tuned!
Some writer just wrote me beating Lebron James one on one... I swear I dunked on him when his back was turned after I coldly crossed him over!
Did I mention he was drugged before the game... Or maybe I stabbed him before we played who knows?
[video=youtube_share;WpbuTeAuJWA]http://youtu.be/WpbuTeAuJWA[/video][/QUOTE]
And as with the war between Star Trek and Star Wars I am in the comfortable position of liking both participants. No matter what happens I will follow what happens and take stock. I am nothing if not patient and my feelings tend towards both will balance out most of the outrage. As you said normality or something close to it will be restored eventually, so I will wait. Us Brits are good at that.
-
Danvidar I'm still waiting patiently for this King of The Dead thang to run out of time and for Shuri to take the backseat to her brother!
The problem with the Black Panther franchise as an intellectual property is that too many see it as an automatic ensemble roster while ignoring that the only ensembles that matter in comics is the rogues gallery!
In Star Wars Darth Vader is everything... The X-men's Magneto gives everything a texture ... James Bond picks an extravagant mogul villain to outthink... But with Black Panther more time is spent with family and friends than handling actual capers!
Victories happen off panel (Black Dwarf anyone) and sometimes Black Panther spends more time in laboratory settings than smacking villains around... When was the last time other than Doomwar that a villain even got under Black Panther's skin to move the meta plot?
Right now Black Panther is hanging with Emma Frost of another lucrative franchise chasing the murderer of The Watcher instead to trying to find the original source of the vibranium meteor!
I appreciate all the major "Event" attention he is gaining but if he still after all these years has not gained enough fans to sponsor a solo comic then what was the point all along?
-
[QUOTE=Danvidar;101626]Here is my final post on the subject since I too don't want an argument. Surprise attacking Atlantis makes strategic sense so I have no problem with that. The Attack doing tremendous damage Pearl Harbour style is also logical so again no problem. What I have a problem with is what we are shown or rather not shown of the fight. We see a fleet of at least 10 ships arrive around Atlantis, Wakanda has great stealth tech so I can by that. At least 8 missiles are launched towards Atlantis. Each one seems to be of the conventional rather than city-busting variety since we see one structure being hit by two. Next panel we see Wakandan troops engaged in a firefight with Atlantean soldiers. The Wakandan fleet has presumably stopped the bombardment as to not hit they're own men, the Wakandans with guns gunning down the Atleanteans who are wielding swords (ordinary swords not even high-tech weaponry in the shape of a sword) and we cut to the aftermath with most of the city in rubble and Namor raging amist the bodies of his countrymen, with 1 Wakandan body in the picture.
I get Hickman was going for the short sharp shock of the assault and in that manner it works. However so often in New Avengers a fight is either not shown, shown screenshots of it in flashback or over very quickly. The assault and destruction of Atlantis, a key feature in the war was covered in 1 page, not even one issue, one page. I hate this one sided portrayal of the war and diminishment of Atlantis as apparently sword wielding barbarians next to the high tech Wakandans. This disregards Atlantis' own tech level and their prespective of the war, I don't like one sided views on conflicts. If a series is showing a war, especially one between two nations with a martial mindset such as Atlantis and Wakanda, you expect to see the point of view of both sides, the generals meeting, plans discussed, the reactions of key individuals to events. We have seen the Wakandan point of view, where is the Atlantean?
Again I in no way mean any disrespect to Wakanda, their plan was strategical sound and they have the technology to pull it off. I understand the reasoning behind their assault and can sympathise it is just the way it was shown that bothers me.[/QUOTE]
Where was all of this disquietude when Namor and his Atlantean hordes sneak attacked Wakanda?
I don't seem to remember anyone outside of the BP enthusiast base, lamenting the fact that the technologically advanced Wakandan's were not shown using their tech to fight back against the Atlanteans.
It was all shits and giggles then with jokes about Namor supposedly "teaching Wakandans how to swim" being all the rage at the time amongst some circles.
You also seem to be conveniently forgetting the fact that Hickman had already established the slaughter of Wakandan Diplomats carried out by Atlantean warriors as well as the Wakandan Elite force that met their Waterloo by Atlantean hands.
I have nary a problem with the manner in which the destruction of Atlantis was chronicled by Hickman but can concede that I would have liked to have seen whatever passes for a Council in Atlantis, questioning Namor's decision to drag Atlantis into a war with Wakanda just on the say so of one of Namor's former lovers.
-
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;102331]Where was all of this disquietude when Namor and his Atlantean hordes sneak attacked Wakanda?
I don't seem to remember anyone outside of the BP enthusiast base, lamenting the fact that the technologically advanced Wakandan's were not shown using their tech to fight back against the Atlanteans.
It was all shits and giggles then with jokes about Namor supposedly "teaching Wakandans how to swim" being all the rage at the time amongst some circles.
You also seem to be conveniently forgetting the fact that Hickman had already established the slaughter of Wakandan Diplomats carried out by Atlantean warriors as well as the Wakandan Elite force that met their Waterloo by Atlantean hands.
I have nary a problem with the manner in which the destruction of Atlantis was chronicled by Hickman but can concede that I would have liked to have seen whatever passes for a Council in Atlantis, questioning Namor's decision to drag Atlantis into a war with Wakanda just on the say so of one of Namor's former lovers.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't posting during AVX I joined after and abhore those teaching how to swim comments so I hope the ill feeling is not being directed at me. Again the chain of events was AVX, wakandans capture atlantean generals for war crimes trial, atleanteans get into confentration with wakandan diplomats ending their deaths, wakanda send a 50 man strike team which is ambushed and killed then the assault on Atlantis. A series of events in which each strike is met with a counter strike. Though Namor did start the war In my opinion he shoulf have called for peace immediatley after AVX not when he did, but that would disript Hickmans narrative so it didn't happen.
-
I find both sides of this a little bit off.
1) Atlantis has done other attacks on Wakanda, though they were "incidents". So it's not like it's been a one-sided fight. I find the complaint about Atlantis rather nitpicky. Whether they had swords or guns, they were outgunned and ambushed. That's all that needed to be established, just like the AvX attack.
Jobbed implies no fight was given, or that Atlantis has lost, which is outright wrong.
2) On the other hand, I can see why people didn't lament as much about the AvX attack. They were randomly attacked by a piece of the Phoenix Force AND Atlantis. The United States didn't fair that much better from just Atlantis.
As for the Atlantean point of view, I don't know, maybe Hickman sees them in an antagonistic view. But since I can't mind read, I'd say that he just doesn't have the time to establish it. I mean, the big reason why the Wakandan point of view is being used is because Wakanda is where the home base is. That, and BP has been the emotional core of the story so far.
-
So basically Wakanda was unprepared for a flood attack in the Marvel universe where contingency plans for Galactus are on random Post-it notes!
T'challa: "Let's see... What are all the possible attacks on Wakanda hmmm?"
Storm: "You know I used to live here..."
T'challa: "That's it... Flash floods, hurricanes and EMP's!"
Xavier: "Don't forget psychic attacks!"
T'challa: "Yep that too!"
Molecule Man: "AHEM!"
T'challa: "Way ahead of you!"
Juggernaut: "Just saying..."
T'challa: "Duly noted!"
Godzilla: "Hey, you never know!"
T'challa: "On it... What else?"
The Beyonder: "Retcons are a mother!"
T'challa: "Covered... Am I forgetting something!"
Mickey Mouse: "Overkill I tell ya!"
T'challa: "Just annexed Disney thanks!"
-
[QUOTE=Danvidar;102437]I wasn't posting during AVX I joined after and abhore those teaching how to swim comments so I hope the ill feeling is not being directed at me. Again the chain of events was AVX, wakandans capture atlantean generals for war crimes trial, atleanteans get into confentration with wakandan diplomats ending their deaths, wakanda send a 50 man strike team which is ambushed and killed then the assault on Atlantis. A series of events in which each strike is met with a counter strike. Though Namor did start the war In my opinion he shoulf have called for peace immediatley after AVX not when he did, but that would disript Hickmans narrative so it didn't happen.[/QUOTE]
There was no "ill feeling" inherent in my response to your previous post and though you point out you're having joined this forum post AvX, it's pretty safe to presume that you'd have a working knowledge of the chronological sequence of events leading on from that event to current date as regards the Atlantean/Wakandan conflict.
Your astute breakdown of all encounters leading on from the initial Atlantean attack on Wakanda actually confirm my supposition in this regard.
My response to your initial post was prompted by your comments to the effect that Atlantis had been "jobbed" in a manner that made the Atlanteans appear less technologically advanced in the face of Wakandas retaliatory strike against Atlantis post Namors initial attack.
I merely pointed out the fact that there were no similar complaints when the shoe was on the other foot as the X-writers who chronicled Wakandas destruction at Namor and his invading forces hands, had no problem depicting a technologically sophisticated Wakanda as being incapable of defending themselves or even repelling Namor and his forces without having to rely on assistance from the Avengers.
We are of course talking about the same Wakanda that singlehandedly repelled an invading army of rank and file shape shifting Skrulls and their more advanced Super Skrull battle brethren.
[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/2v0khu8.jpg[/IMG]
But in the hands of X-scribes, Wakanda was effortlessly rolled over by Namor and his Atlantean hordes like it was an average day at the office.
I'm glad that Hickman remembered the fact that Wakanda is an actual super power within the 616 MU fully capable of applying deadly force once aroused to action by unprovoked and unwarranted attacks.
As for Namor suing for peace a lot more promptly than he did, I feel that the fact that some of the authors responsible for AvX didn't really plan to explore the actions that most of the characters from the X-universe engaged in post the event may have played into Namor being portrayed in the manner he's been shown in AvX's wake.
To date, Emma Frost's involvement in aiming Namor at Wakanda has not been explored in anyway whatsoever so I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles as far as actions and consequences are concerned in the 616 MU sandbox.
Peace.
-
So far so good..original Sin #2.
That is all. :vanishes:
-
[quote=excelsiorprime;105137]so far so good..original sin #2.
That is all. :vanishes:[/quote]
roflmao!!! :)
-
Any T'challa panels other than the preview in Original Sin #2?
Won't be able to check it out until later
-
You can see all of T'challa's part in original sin #2 in the preview lol.