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[QUOTE=XPac;3804829]The only reason the best leader is guaranteed is because it's comic book fiction and the good guy always wins in the end (even though Killmongers track record against T'Challa is pretty darn good).
If you genuinely believe a fighting tournament is a reasonable means of choosing leadership, we can agree to disagree. If you genuinely can't see the flaws in such a system, nothing I say will convince you otherwise. But there's a reason that's not how it's done in the real world. It's fine in comics where the good guys always win in the end anyways... but in the real world it's a bit more complicated than just deciding who the best fighter is.[/QUOTE]
[B]Well of course it doesn't work on the real world. But I simply pointing out your logic of our system picking the person that the majority of the country didn't vote for and then winning isn't highlighting a benefit but a major flaw.
No where in what I said did I state that system is superior in the real world since you know, the heart shaped herb doesn't exist and all, funny how you try to use that as if I actually believe a trial by combat system would actually work and to form your counter argument. But in comics? The set up of getting a new commander in chief in Wakanda is actually faster than then in the US so change could actually happen faster[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3804834][B]Well of course it doesn't work on the real world. But I simply pointing out your logic of our system picking the person that the majority of the country didn't vote for and then winning isn't highlighting a benefit but a major flaw.
No where in what I said did I state that system is superior in the real world since you know, the heart shaped herb doesn't exist and all, funny how you try to use that as if I actually believe a trial by combat system would actually work and to form your counter argument. But in comics? The set up of getting a new commander in chief in Wakanda is actually faster than then in the US so change could actually happen faster[/B][/QUOTE]
The highlight I was pointing out isn't the electoral college (though there is a logical reason to have that, agree with it or not), but the idea that no one can stay in power. It's designed with enough checks and balances to prevent that from happening. It's a system that's by no means perfect... but nonetheless it was brilliantly designed.
But as far as the Wakandan system goes... the set up is designed to keep T'CHalla's family in power. Which is why apart from Killmonger, that's basically all we've gotten as far as we know. In the comics they were smart enough to rig the system so that people like Killmonger can't rise to power. Movie decided to to make it a "fair" competition... which in some ways I can respect, and in some ways I can't.
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That's why I'm independent neither democrat nor republican... I get to watch both sides lose their minds over Fake News back and forth!
Speaking of politics...
Do you think Wakanda's Wardogs interfered with the election? :cool:
King T'challa: "Mister President!"
Dee Trizzy: "I know more about that Wakandan sh!thole than you do believe me!"
King T'challa: "Yeah uhm... Do you mind if I invade U.S. airspace and park a Royal Talon Fighter in Oakland?"
Dee Trizzy: "My intel tells me that is where your dad killed your uncle... How did you guys immigrate past that wall I'm building?"
King T'challa: "We have our ways."
Dee Trizzy: "I'm placing tariffs on all Wakandan imports!"
King T'challa: "I can afford it."
Dee Trizzy: "So your cousin was U.S. special forces and you killed him!"
King T'challa: "And..."
Dee Trizzy: "If he was a U.S. citizen that could pose all types of ramifications for future international relations!"
King T'challa: "That sounds like an excellent place to start for the sequel."
Dee Trizzy: "Did you sign that Sokovia Accords because we are pulling out of it to make super heroes great again."
King T'challa: "My what big hands you have!"
Queen Nakia: "At ease you two, hey Melania nice jacket what does it say on the back?"
Melania: "I Don't Give A FRAK Do You!"
Tweet...
@DeeTrizzy
Met with King of Wakanda Warrior Falls a total dump terrible plumbing not good people SAD!
Tweet...
@DeeTrizzy
DOJ investigating death of U.S. soldier Erik Stevens in Wakanda a proud American killed in active duty support our troops!
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[QUOTE=XPac;3804852]The highlight I was pointing out isn't the electoral college (though there is a logical reason to have that, agree with it or not), but the idea that no one can stay in power. It's designed with enough checks and balances to prevent that from happening. It's a system that's by no means perfect... but nonetheless it was brilliantly designed.
But as far as the Wakandan system goes... the set up is designed to keep T'CHalla's family in power. Which is why apart from Killmonger, that's basically all we've gotten as far as we know. In the comics they were smart enough to rig the system so that people like Killmonger can't rise to power. Movie decided to to make it a "fair" competition... which in some ways I can respect, and in some ways I can't.[/QUOTE]
[B] brilliantly designed of it worked how it was supposed to. But again, Trump becoming president showed the major Flaw in the system.
As for thw Wakandan system. You keep trying to use Priest's version in your argument when in fact Hudlin's is the version that is the new Canon. So I don't know why you keep trying to use that argument when it's no l the the case. Now anyone can be the new leader if they win the tribal challenge and are accepted by Bast. It's no longer rigged. And the movie doesn't actually nake it fair. Of you pay attention to the details, it's actually "rigged" in the challengers favor because Tchalla is used to being superhuman, and when you go from operating system at 150% down to now 100%, it puts him at a disadvantage[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3804866][B] brilliantly designed of it worked how it was supposed to. But again, Trump becoming president showed the major Flaw in the system.
As for thw Wakandan system. You keep trying to use Priest's version in your argument when in fact Hudlin's is the version that is the new Canon. So I don't know why you keep trying to use that argument when it's no l the the case. Now anyone can be the new leader if they win the tribal challenge and are accepted by Bast. It's no longer rigged. And the movie doesn't actually nake it fair. Of you pay attention to the details, it's actually "rigged" in the challengers favor because Tchalla is used to being superhuman, and when you go from operating system at 150% down to now 100%, it puts him at a disadvantage[/B][/QUOTE]
I use Priests version, because it's the only instance we know of where someone outside of T'Challas family has actually won the contest. We never saw anyone outside of T'CHalla's family win the challenge in Hudlins version.
Trump wasn't a flaw in the system. It worked like it was supposed to. The flaw was in Hillary and how she campgained… something even her husband and Obame criticized her on. The point of the electoral college is that it forces the candidates to campaign the ENTIRE country, not just the high population centers like California, New York and Florida. Every states counts, to some degree at least. That's where she blew it. It's not the systems fault... it's hers. But this is probably a bit off topic, so I'll leave it there.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3804545]Do you think we will get a bunch of, "omg how can advanced society have fights for the crown?" Like we did with black panther?
I highly doubt it[/QUOTE]
Of course not.
DC have no problem sticking to their characters respective mythos.
Marvel on the other hand, just let anyone come in and change stuff willy nilly.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3804767]In fairness, it was the electoral college that gave us Trump, even though Hillary won the majority of votes.
And it's not that advanced, as we've been using it...since the founding of our country *cough*
...maybe we oughta update?[/QUOTE]
electoral college= our advanced system
maybe quotes around "advanced" is in order. I was being sarcastic. POint is our system is not necesarily optimal nor advanced.
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Black Panther is full of political intrigue with ideologies and theologies that often clash or contradict each other!
Once you mix the three R's Race, Religion and Rhetoric (politics) emotions can run rampant and reveal something about each of us and our value systems!
In this video see if you can tell which character more reflects Obama or Trump...
[video=youtube;hur6LcyuTuU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hur6LcyuTuU[/video]
Hint: After multiple mutinies at the end of this movie the military judges found that both of these rival individuals were right!
Compare that to Nakia and Okoye agreeing to disagree about overthrowing Killmonger or T'challa blasting his deceased elders about hiding Wakanda from the outside world!
Politics always had moving parts that you may not like but they are always a necessary evil one way or another!
The U.S. does not have a Warriors Falls type of presidential election otherwise only UCF fighters with head trauma brain damage would be leaders of the free world!
An electoral college did not stop Obama, Bill Clinton, Bush Sr and Jr etc... Hillary Clinton straight dropped the knife like Jamie Lee Curtis in Halloween instead of finishing off Michael Myers when he was down allowing him to get back up and stalk her some more!
Put the emotions aside and use your Michael Corleone poker face and never let them see you sweat and live to fight another day!
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[QUOTE=XPac;3804872]I use Priests version, because it's the only instance we know of where someone outside of T'Challas family has actually won the contest. We never saw anyone outside of T'CHalla's family win the challenge in Hudlins version.
Trump wasn't a flaw in the system. It worked like it was supposed to. The flaw was in Hillary and how she campgained… something even her husband and Obame criticized her on. The point of the electoral college is that it forces the candidates to campaign the ENTIRE country, not just the high population centers like California, New York and Florida. Every states counts, to some degree at least. That's where she blew it. It's not the systems fault... it's hers. But this is probably a bit off topic, so I'll leave it there.[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming some people have been living under a proverbial rock for the last few months or so especially as regards President Putin's admission that he gave the order for his operatives to do all possible to ensure Trump's "victory" in the 2016 Presidential election.
Go check out the video of Trump and Putin's joint statement at the Helsinki Summit for verification.
Applying real world politics to the fictional Wakanda setting is quite silly especially when the same does not occur in other fictional societies within the MU.
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barring any legal issues, I'm wondering just how the Supremacists would even be updated in the comics. I severely doubt they would end up in the films.
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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;3805155]barring any legal issues, I'm wondering just how the Supremacists would even be updated in the comics. I severely doubt they would end up in the films.[/QUOTE]
Just make them a black ops team sent in by another country to bring down Black Panther. Problem solved. And obviously change the name as well.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3804606]If they're not going the Malice route, I'm thinking Lupita should have been Monica Lynn. Not necessarily the version we saw in comics... but they can just say Monica Lynn is her undercover identity when she's acting overseas.
Course, the movie version is nothing like the comic version of Monica... but it's not like she's anything like the comic version of Nakia either.[/QUOTE]
I doubt "Monica" is a very popular Wakandan name lol
[QUOTE=Yaw;3804623]that **** annoyed me so much. While, our advanced system gave us Trump.[/QUOTE]
It was just a way to hate. No one will say a word about Atlantis, another hyperadvanced culture, doing it.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3804629]you think.they will take nakia down the malice route?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Yaw;3804633]yeah but she was exactly like malaika, except or the Peggy Bundy hair of course. lol.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3804640]Not necessarily, but it's possible.
They gave her the name of a super villain. That doesn't obligate them to turn her into a super villain, but they have to know some people familiar with the source material will expect that to happen. It's like watching a SpiderMan movie and seeing a Norman Osborn show up. You sort of guess how that turns out.
So either they have a long term plan to turn her into Malice, or they just randomly picked a name out of the mythos to give to the character without giving any thought whatsoever to it. I wouldn't be shocked either way. And honestly I'm fine with it either way. I'm against T'CHalla being with Nakia in comics for obvious reasons... but those reasons don't apply to the movie version whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3804658]I see. your points make sense. I'm very sure the creative team behind bp knew exactly who nakia was to him in the comics; however, the writer for the current wakamda forever mini made it clear that the Nakia in her book was not the one people are familiar with in the movie. so as you mentioned it could go either way.[/QUOTE]
They used Nakia because she is one of the few named Doras.
At the time of the movie, the only named Doras in the comics were:
- Okoye: in the movie and rather comic accurate
- Nakia
- QDJ: isn't Wakandan
- Ayo and Aneka: new and Lesbian
- Trainer Chick in Priest Run
And then, spy wise, Malakai, who mcuNakia was really patterned after, can't be used because of dispute with Gillis.
That only leaves Nakia or making up a completely new name.
[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3804762]I doubt that they're gonna make MU Nakia a villain. She has none of the setup Nakia had in the comics.
Look at Ghost. She's a departure from canon in every way except powers (and the movie was better for it). I think the TV/movie people are using canon as a compass more than anything else.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. mcu Nakia is the complete opposite of 616 nakia/malice
- she isn't 16. She's a grown ass woman
- she isn't a Dora
- she isn't obsessed with T'challa. She loves T'challa but was 100% ready to leave him again to "do good in the world"
- she isn't crazy. In fact, she may have been the most level headed character in the whole movie.
[QUOTE=Cville;3804823]Even if you win, you have to climb a mountain without equipment and help to retrieve the herb. And answer historical questions from the tribal council. And fight six of Wakandas best fighters at once.
Winning a fight against a peak human is probably the easiest part.[/QUOTE]
and get judged by a weird/fickle god
[QUOTE=Mantis Dad;3804811][I]Maybe they should have him drink from the "Small hands shaped herb", then challenge him on top of the water fall. Killmonger might be a more effective leader.[/I][/QUOTE]
[img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/486c5af4f5227a2d8e72fc23415e9a09/tenor.gif?itemid=4616916[/img]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3804452]I dont give a poop about continuity
It had thought balloons....
The writing was amateurish[/QUOTE]
I was coming in to say that I agreed with everyone that World of Wakanda was not a good book and wasn't deserving of awards, but the thought balloons weren't the issue. The comics industry needs more thought balloons, not fewer. It's a shame they fell out of favor.
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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;3805155]barring any legal issues, I'm wondering just how the Supremacists would even be updated in the comics. I severely doubt they would end up in the films.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BlackClaw;3805161]Just make them a black ops team sent in by another country to bring down Black Panther. Problem solved. And obviously change the name as well.[/QUOTE]
For comics... you don't change much. They are like the wrecking crew or something. the are basically the "avengers" of a shitty country.
Movie... BC nailed it. We know SHIELD used powered individuals for missions (ant-man, wasp, Ghost, Cap)... Supremacists woudl simply be a shitty countries version of the same thing.
or they are mercenaries.
opening scene (since MCU movies like to open in action) in the next movie could be T'challa on a diplomatic mission to say.... Sudan and he is attacked by the "supremacists." After defeating them, Okoye makes a comment on how this is the 4th assassination attempt on T'challa since Wakanda opened up or something.
If you go the mercenary route, they could be getting hired by someone like... Achebe, who is trying to destablize Wakanda and keep T'challa distracted. Hell, the "supremacists" could get their powers from a bastardized HSH and it could be a "mystery" movie of T'chalal trying to figure out who exactly is doing this.
You could get smart/prep Wakanda as we find out towads the end that T'challa was countering what Achebe was doing and actually trying to draw him out. Because Achebe is just the front man, the real bad guy is *insert villain*
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3805162]I doubt "Monica" is a very popular Wakandan name lol
[B]It was just a way to hate. No one will say a word about Atlantis, another hyperadvanced culture, doing it. [/B]
They used Nakia because she is one of the few named Doras.
At the time of the movie, the only named Doras in the comics were:
- Okoye: in the movie and rather comic accurate
- Nakia
- QDJ: isn't Wakandan
- Ayo and Aneka: new and Lesbian
- Trainer Chick in Priest Run
And then, spy wise, Malakai, who mcuNakia was really patterned after, can't be used because of dispute with Gillis.
That only leaves Nakia or making up a completely new name.
Exactly. mcu Nakia is the complete opposite of 616 nakia/malice
- she isn't 16. She's a grown ass woman
- she isn't a Dora
- she isn't obsessed with T'challa. She loves T'challa but was 100% ready to leave him again to "do good in the world"
- she isn't crazy. In fact, she may have been the most level headed character in the whole movie.
and get judged by a weird/fickle god
][/QUOTE]
Exactly, I'm waiting to see if Ben Shaprio does video criticizing Aquaman's society the way he BP's before the movie even came out.