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[QUOTE=LastManStanding;3690099]Why did the men of Wakanda become weaklings to the point that rape was an avenue? Why did a Wakandan chief engage in attacking young fictional girls? Did the fictional men feel powerless in the aftermath of Namor's flood and The Cabal scorching of Wakanda? Do they need counselling sessions like some real world churches conduct to talk about male problems? Why was a gender war necessary in the first place?
[url]http://www.uh.edu/socialwork/news/news-releases/2015-06-10_McPhail_FFP.pdf[/url]
"Beverly McPhail (link is external) of the University of Houston seeks to knit together several feminist theories of rape into a new comprehensive model. In a useful and poignant reminder that the political is personal, she notes that rape is both “a political, aggregate act whereby men as a group dominate and control women as a group"
Don't worry. When I want my 'warrior nation' fix, I turn on 300 just to hear the answer to 'Spartans ...what is your profession?"
Or I will go to the multiplex to hear the call and answer of 'Yibambe' by a warrior nation in Infinity War.[/QUOTE]
The "why" is sort of tough to answer. Rape and human trafficking pretty much exists in every human xivkzation on history. As sucky as it is, there's always a few bad apples in every bunch.
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[QUOTE=LastManStanding;3690099]Why did the men of Wakanda become weaklings to the point that rape was an avenue? Why did a Wakandan chief engage in attacking young fictional girls? Did the fictional men feel powerless in the aftermath of Namor's flood and The Cabal scorching of Wakanda? Do they need counselling sessions like some real world churches conduct to talk about male problems? Why was a gender war necessary in the first place?
[/quote]
I think the in comic reason was, "T'challa was busy/distracted" lol....
[quote]
Don't worry. When I want my 'warrior nation' fix, I turn on 300 just to hear the answer to 'Spartans ...what is your profession?"
Or I will go to the multiplex to hear the call and answer response of 'Yibambe' by a warrior nation in Infinity War.[/QUOTE]
One of the issues with hollywood is that the only black movies were slave movies and stereotypical Africa. That is why BP movie was so refreshing.
Coates S1 was stereotypical Africa.
I guess S3 is going to be the slave movie. Hopefully he can pull it off better than season 1, which was incredibly fake deep and superficial.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3690091]You didn't say enemies of Wakanda... you said enemies. Something the MA were at the time. They killed Wakandans, took land, and were turned into allies without him being removed from power. Which is fine since it worked out better for everyone anyways.
And I certainly agree the MA started the rebellion ... But they aren't the cause of the actual problem. The actual rapists were.
Would allowing the Wakandan government handle it have led to less blood. But that's part of the reason the MA got the following they did. They dealt with it Punished style and made the problem go away.
As far as whether or not they are trustworthy... We will see. That's up to Coates I suppose. They seem trustworthy enough to get their own one shot books.[/QUOTE]
[B]it doesn't matter. Enemies of T'Challa are enemies of Wakanda. If Kilmonger wanted to Allie with T'Challa should he give him what he wants? How about Doom after DW? Or Namor after AvX? No that would be stupid. Because they aren't trustworthy and have shown they can't be trusted. And at the start the MA were allies then went against the Monarch.
Again turning Allies Initially-then turned enemies back into allies is not smart, especially since they showed they are willing to work with known terrorists and enemies of the state and ones who are Killing the people they claim to be protecting, and only back down when said nation threatens then with destruction and end up hiding when the final fight takes place. That's not a smart move at all because they have proved to be unreliable and willing to turn on a dime to whatever suits them.
The ma aren't the initial cause of the problems in Wakanda, however, they ARE the cause of a ton of deaths and the rebellion because they had important information that they chose not to share, and then took matters into their own hands and botched it, then tried to pass blame. Had they told T'Challa, they would of taken the chieftain, taken care of of the rape treehouses and everything would of been fine with little to no bloodshed of Wakandan civilian. So while they made one problem "go away" they actually caused an even bigger problem that resulted in more death then had they told Tchalla. But they clearly don't care about that. They selfishly cared only about themselves and what they wanted. They are only "trustworthy" due to possible. Looking at everything they have done would point to no, but Coates will twist it to serve his needs no matter how many holes are in the plot and logic[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3690161][B]it doesn't matter. Enemies of T'Challa are enemies of Wakanda. If Kilmonger wanted to Allie with T'Challa should he give him what he wants? How about Doom after DW? Or Namor after AvX? No that would be stupid. Because they aren't trustworthy and have shown they can't be trusted. And at the start the MA were allies then went against the Monarch.
Again turning Allies Initially-then turned enemies back into allies is not smart, especially since they showed they are willing to work with known terrorists and enemies of the state and ones who are Killing the people they claim to be protecting, and only back down when said nation threatens then with destruction and end up hiding when the final fight takes place. That's not a smart move at all because they have proved to be unreliable and willing to turn on a dime to whatever suits them.
The ma aren't the initial cause of the problems in Wakanda, however, they ARE the cause of a ton of deaths and the rebellion because they had important information that they chose not to share, and then took matters into their own hands and botched it, then tried to pass blame. Had they told T'Challa, they would of taken the chieftain, taken care of of the rape treehouses and everything would of been fine with little to no bloodshed of Wakandan civilian. So while they made one problem "go away" they actually caused an even bigger problem that resulted in more death then had they told Tchalla. But they clearly don't care about that. They selfishly cared only about themselves and what they wanted. They are only "trustworthy" due to possible. Looking at everything they have done would point to no, but Coates will twist it to serve his needs no matter how many holes are in the plot and logic[/B][/QUOTE]
I think you can argue there are plenty enemies of T'Challa who consider themselves pro-Wakanda. White Wolf, Man Ape, the MA for a period, and arguably even Killmomger.
As for the trustworthiness of the MA ... again, we'll see. Given the push Dora are getting I doubt they will end up villains. But ya never know.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3690115]The "why" is sort of tough to answer. Rape and human trafficking pretty much exists in every human xivkzation on history. As sucky as it is, there's always a few bad apples in every bunch.[/QUOTE]
[B]So a nation that since the beginning, has a very strong view of men and women treated equally and women in positions of power and authority and treated with the highest respect.. devolve into rapist and misogynist and gender inequality on the drop of a hat?? Seems unlikely[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3690172][B]So a nation that since the beginning, has a very strong view of men and women treated equally and women in positions of power and authority and treated with the highest respect.. devolve into rapist and misogynist and gender inequality on the drop of a hat?? Seems unlikely[/B][/QUOTE]
Well, the same nation with a proud history of independence and isolation apparently turned into imperialist slavers as soon as they created their first space colony, so I guess all it takes for the "most spiritually advanced nation on Earth" to turn into cartoonish villainy is one bad day. I can see it now:
Season 4, Issue #1
M'Baku: No Sweet & Low for my espresso? RAPE TIME!
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[QUOTE=XPac;3690169]I think you can argue there are plenty enemies of T'Challa who consider themselves pro-Wakanda. White Wolf, Man Ape, the MA for a period, and arguably even Killmomger.
As for the trustworthiness of the MA ... again, we'll see. Given the push Dora are getting I doubt they will end up villains. But ya never know.[/QUOTE]
[B] Killmonger is definitely not an ally nor should ever be trusted ever and has proven to be an enemy of Wakanda, gathering a neighboring nations forces and attacking Wakanda is not pro Wakanda. same with M'Baku and Hunter though last time we saw M'Baku he was warning T'Challa of danger so he cares about Wakanda, he isn't someone T'Challa is going to put trust in. Hunter is less an ebemiabd more of a foil then an actual enemy, and T'Challa still doesn't trust him or put him in a position of real power or authority.[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3690184][B] Killmonger is definitely not an ally nor should ever be trusted ever and has proven to be an enemy of Wakanda, gathering a neighboring nations forces and attacking Wakanda is not pro Wakanda. same with M'Baku and Hunter though last time we saw M'Baku he was warning T'Challa of danger so he cares about Wakanda, he isn't someone T'Challa is going to put trust in. Hunter is less an ebemiabd more of a foil then an actual enemy, and T'Challa still doesn't trust him or put him in a position of real power or authority.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not necessarily saying T'Calla should trust guys like Man Ape or Hunter ... I'm saying they are enemies of T'Challa who aren't necessarily anti-Wakanda. You can care about the nation without necessarily agreeing with its leader.
Plenty of people don't like Trump, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are anti-US. Those things can go hand in hand, but it's not necessarily exclusive.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3690183]Well, the same nation with a proud history of independence and isolation apparently turned into imperialist slavers as soon as they created their first space colony, so I guess all it takes for the "most spiritually advanced nation on Earth" to turn into cartoonish villainy is one bad day. I can see it now:
Season 4, Issue #1
M'Baku: No Sweet & Low for my espresso? RAPE TIME![/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/Vg0JstydL8HCg/200w.webp[/Img]
[B]....Danget BoG... It's very cringey how true this is and the major flaw in Coates storytelling. Wakandans are very weak-willed and will crack under The slightest pressure becoming no different or worse because they chastised the rest of the world for the same exact thing[/B]
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You know...
I can't be the only person who finds the justification for the whole "rape camp" situation to be somewhat disingenuous at best, and almost racist at worst.
After all, how many times has Atlantis, Latveria, or Attilan been demolished by an Event™, but nobody expected them to suddenly descend into anarchy and depravity.
Hell, HYDRA just conquered the entire US, but somehow, they managed to recover without having to shut down warlord strongholds in Nebraska.
But Wakanda gets a couple of invasions, seemingly recovers enough to not only fund a space program but also bankroll Alpha Flight... but the population just can't help but devolve into lawlessness... it's only "logical".
Why is it "logical" for Wakanda, but everyone else gets a free pass to hit the Big Red Reset Button™?
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3690257]You know...
I can't be the only person who finds the justification for the whole "rape camp" situation to be somewhat disingenuous at best, and almost racist at worst.
After all, how many times has Atlantis, Latveria, or Attilan been demolished by an Event™, but nobody expected them to suddenly descend into anarchy and depravity.
Hell, HYDRA just conquered the entire US, but somehow, they managed to recover without having to shut down warlord strongholds in Nebraska.
But Wakanda gets a couple of invasions, seemingly recovers enough to not only fund a space program but also bankroll Alpha Flight... but the population just can't help but devolve into lawlessness... it's only "logical".
Why is it "logical" for Wakanda, but everyone else gets a free pass to hit the Big Red Reset Button™?[/QUOTE]
It's not just you. Lol. After Manhattan came out of the Darkhold bubble, it should have been similar to Escape from New York/No Mans Land for at least 12 issues in all the NY based comics.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3690257]You know...
I can't be the only person who finds the justification for the whole "rape camp" situation to be somewhat disingenuous at best, and almost racist at worst.
After all, how many times has Atlantis, Latveria, or Attilan been demolished by an Event™, but nobody expected them to suddenly descend into anarchy and depravity.
Hell, HYDRA just conquered the entire US, but somehow, they managed to recover without having to shut down warlord strongholds in Nebraska.
But Wakanda gets a couple of invasions, seemingly recovers enough to not only fund a space program but also bankroll Alpha Flight... but the population just can't help but devolve into lawlessness... it's only "logical".
Why is it "logical" for Wakanda, but everyone else gets a free pass to hit the Big Red Reset Button™?[/QUOTE]
The thing is there is already rape and human traficing in the US even without Hydra taking it over. Crime has always existed. You can blame government for not handling it as well as one might want when whatever calastrophy occurs, but the point being this stuff happens regardless.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3690257]You know...
I can't be the only person who finds the justification for the whole "rape camp" situation to be somewhat disingenuous at best, and almost racist at worst.
After all, how many times has Atlantis, Latveria, or Attilan been demolished by an Event™, but nobody expected them to suddenly descend into anarchy and depravity.
Hell, HYDRA just conquered the entire US, but somehow, they managed to recover without having to shut down warlord strongholds in Nebraska.
But Wakanda gets a couple of invasions, seemingly recovers enough to not only fund a space program but also bankroll Alpha Flight... but the population just can't help but devolve into lawlessness... it's only "logical".
Why is it "logical" for Wakanda, but everyone else gets a free pass to hit the Big Red Reset Button™?[/QUOTE]
[B] Same reason that a white Character can commit heinous crimes to a Black hero abd they are expected to show how "Noble they are" by turning the other cheek rather then giving justice where it's due.
Wakanda turning devolving into such a state now logical Where as America getting destroyed and conquered every few week's is logically above such anarchy. They can return to status quo while Wakanda must go through a identity crisis and torpedo 10k+ years of advancement to be just like the rest of the world. A beacon of light and hope for the rest of humanity that Hickman teased is now wishful thinking in Coates Wakanda and he had made damn sure to make then as far from that reality as possible[/B]
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[QUOTE=Cville;3690265]It's not just you. Lol. After Manhattan came out of the Darkhold bubble, it should have been similar to Escape from New York/No Mans Land for at least 12 issues in all the NY based comics.[/QUOTE]
That's just how comics are though. A book can hand wave something away if a writer feels like it, or they can milk it for stories if they choose.
Hickman basically wiped away all of Maeberrys Doom war drama in like 3 panels because he didn't want to deal with it.
It's fiction. Things can be dealt with as realistically as a writer chooses.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3690272]The thing is there is already rape and human traficing in the US even without Hydra taking it over. Crime has always existed. You can blame government for not handling it as well as one might want when whatever calastrophy occurs, but the point being this stuff happens regardless.[/QUOTE]
You didn't answer his question: Why is it "logical" for Wakanda, but everyone else gets a free pass to hit the Big Red Reset Button™?