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[QUOTE=Rumble;3118318]I agree. Ideally, I would want a Wakandan love interest with super powers. BP already has a Lois Lane type in the other Monica. So instead of having a Mary Jane to her Gwen, I would want him with someone a bit more excitable.
I wouldn't have been opposed to Rambeau since.. yknow.. nobody cares about her :/
I mean, they don't care about Storm either.. but that mutant community is a capricious tribal bunch[/QUOTE]
Hey now, Al Ewing cares about Monica.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3117898]...and that's why I hated Hudlin's run. He had to tear down characters to make T'Challa look better, while others stood on the sidelines to act as cheerleaders telling the audience how great T'Challa was.
Monica knew the extent of her abilities from the *start*. She took on freakin' Zeus.
And T'Challa 'teaching' Monica in this story? What great insight does he have?
Use sunlight against vampires.
Yeah, that's some straight super science there (damn the lack of eye rolling emoticon!)[/QUOTE]
[B]Who is it that he tore down to make tchalla look better?
Honest question, because I don't think he did that, everyone had pretty decent showings in hos run. No one was really chumped to make tchalla seem better. [/B]
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Interesting spoiler in tomorrow's Legacy involving Wakanda
[spoil]There has apparently been a Wakandan Intergalactic Empire for centuries.[/spoil]
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;3118328]Hey now, Al Ewing cares about Monica.[/QUOTE]
Hehe
Tbh, i think he cared more about Adam and pump faked us on Monica getting any worthwhile development.
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True, though tbh this is the most consistent exposure Monica's had in decades (not counting Nextwave, I guess). She even got her first action figure ever this year!
She really gone done dirty after the 80's. She went from being a major player in the Avengers to...nothing.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3118336][B]Who is it that he tore down to make tchalla look better?
Honest question, because I don't think he did that, everyone had pretty decent showings in hos run. No one was really chumped to make tchalla seem better. [/B][/QUOTE]
Overall I thought Hudlins usage of characters was pretty good. But like any run, I think there are a few instances where he sort of misused some of the characters he borrowed.
I think having Monica come off like a noob so that T'Challa can take credit for teaching her how to use her powers felt a little forced. I think the idea of T'Challa mentoring some younger heroes has legs, but using Monica in that role didn't fit.
And I thought Hudlin's handling of some of the Inhumans was a bit questionable. Having Karnak and Gorgan secretly use slaves behind BB's back because they're too lazy to clean up after themselves seemed kind of a forced way to have a story about T'CHalla ending slavery.
But again, Hudlin used a lot of characters very well. The good outweights the bad.
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[QUOTE=Of Atlantis;3118337]Interesting spoiler in tomorrow's Legacy involving Wakanda
[spoil]There has apparently been a Wakandan Intergalactic Empire for centuries.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
Now this is something I can get behind. Sadly, I know the current writer has a weak excuse of an imagination to follow up on this.
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[QUOTE=Holt;3118359]True, though tbh this is the most consistent exposure Monica's had in decades (not counting Nextwave, I guess). She even got her first action figure ever this year!
She really gone done dirty after the 80's. She went from being a major player in the Avengers to...nothing.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the best Monica since Stern.
I think Monica can be a challenging character to write in an on-going because of her particular powerset, but Ewings does it well.
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@Holt,
Yea she went from being a leader of men and avengers in the 80s to now having nothing to look forward to but being Carol's black best friend in the captain marvel movie.
So in that sense Ewing was a something is better than nothing case.. lol... :/
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[QUOTE=BlackClaw;3118385]Now this is something I can get behind. Sadly, I know the current writer has a weak excuse of an imagination to follow up on this.[/QUOTE]
Yup. All good or at least interesting ideas are pretty irrelevant at this point.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3118146]Another year, another Storm digression (same ol same ol) and another accurate objective statement by Marvell breaking things down. Should just be copy/paste at this point.
Conceptually she's a nice character to have around but if we're still overstating her sacrifices to him as a wife (when she didn't have much going for her before or after) or 'justifying' her AvX decisions... ehhh, she can go back to being led by Kitty Pryde or being old (young?) Logan's second (third?) option.
[B]It's so whatever at this point. Until the day Fox shares the movie rights (lol) and someone like Fiege/Coogler get a hold of her, she's just one of those symbolic reminders (annoyances) of the last 5-6 years of shitty "It's T'Challa's fault" storytelling we've been subjected to... dragged out again b/c Coates lacks vision.[/B][/QUOTE]
Nice bro. Very well said.
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[QUOTE=BlackClaw;3117935]Too bad Monica is with Blue Marvel. She and T'Challa would've made a great couple.[/QUOTE]
She's far too powerful to by T'challa's side regularly. All of his street-level opponents would need so much PIS in order be threats. Either that or you bring Monica down a peg and jusdging by the last couple of comments in this thread, people aren't going to be happy about that.
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[QUOTE=BlackClaw;3118100]I find it funny how the unfans constantly shat on Black Panther during the marriage era and accused him of leeching off of Storms fame. Fast forward to the present where the man is gonna to be in a highly anticipated film and a cartoon. Meanwhile Storm has become nothing but wallpaper yet again in her own franchise. Sure Coates is doing her justice but at T'Challa's expense. Gee, I wonder who's the leech here?[/QUOTE]
In the old CBR forum, many BP fans predicted how this would end once the marriage was over and we were pretty much spot on.
I don't put any blame on Storm. It was some of her fans and X-writers who screwed her over because they wanted her back over in the X-verse. BP had nothing to do with her situation and subsequent lame status in the X-books.
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[QUOTE=Of Atlantis;3118337]Interesting spoiler in tomorrow's Legacy involving Wakanda
[spoil]There has apparently been a Wakandan Intergalactic Empire for centuries.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
Whoa! This is very interesting.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3116205]for you guys not to like storm u sure talk about her a lot lol.
and not going to happen. jean is coming back to and that's first love.[/QUOTE]
Storm will still paly his disposable side piece though. I love Storm I just hate how the X-writers play her.
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3118570]She's far too powerful to by T'challa's side regularly. All of his street-level opponents would need so much PIS in order be threats. Either that or you bring Monica down a peg and jusdging by the last couple of comments in this thread, people aren't going to be happy about that.[/QUOTE]
Though I'm more than happy seeing Monica in a BP book, I'll admit I wasn't exactly thrilled with Monica jobbing out to Killmonger. I thought she was overkill against a threat the level of Erik... and for him to actually beat her was a bit surprising. Though Monica obviously comes out on top round 2.
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What's your opinion on this Egyptian style BP suit?
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/eGs5AX9.jpg[/IMG]
I don't think I've ever seen anybody talk about it here.
Is the cowl too similar to Batmans?
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3118642]What's your opinion on this Egyptian style BP suit?
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/eGs5AX9.jpg[/IMG]
I don't think I've ever seen anybody talk about it here.
Is the cowl too similar to Batmans?[/QUOTE]
Scorpion Wins!! Fatality. lol
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[QUOTE=XPac;3118588]Though I'm more than happy seeing Monica in a BP book, I'll admit I wasn't exactly thrilled with Monica jobbing out to Killmonger. I thought she was overkill against a threat the level of Erik... and for him to actually beat her was a bit surprising. Though Monica obviously comes out on top round 2.[/QUOTE]
Well it kind of makes sense now(not back then) considering Eric's shtick is that he's smarter and stronger than T'challa and T'challa's feats range from taking down Galactus to beating a Super Skrull in physical combat and in the Ultimates he went out of his way to threaten Monica, Adam and the golden guy(forgot his name) which implies that T'challa thinks or knows that he's capable of taking them down with something. He's beaten people that are more powerful than Monica so I don't know why Eric shouldn't be able to get one upher but people like Man-Ape and Zenzi are done for is they try anything to him while she's protecting him.
I say keep Monica Rambeau as far away from Wakanda as possible, she should only be interacting with T'challa in the Ultimates and as long as they're in space.
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[QUOTE=Of Atlantis;3118337]Interesting spoiler in tomorrow's Legacy involving Wakanda
[spoil]There has apparently been a Wakandan Intergalactic Empire for centuries.[/spoil][/QUOTE]
I wonder if it's connected to what occurred within either [I][B]NEW AVENGERS #1[/B][/I] {W/ the Illuminati} or [I][B]SECRET WARS #9[/B][/I].
Just a thought, that's all........ :confused:
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[QUOTE=XPac;3118588]Though I'm more than happy seeing Monica in a BP book, I'll admit I wasn't exactly thrilled with Monica jobbing out to Killmonger. I thought she was overkill against a threat the level of Erik... and for him to actually beat her was a bit surprising. Though Monica obviously comes out on top round 2.[/QUOTE]
[B]It wasn't a job, It wasn't like he straight up threw fisticuffs with her. He was simply prepared for her and she got caught in his trap. Simple. Its the same as how T'Challa out preps people outside his weightclass, as obviously seen when she easily killed him. So there was nothing wrong with it at all[/B]
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3118691]Well it kind of makes sense now(not back then) considering Eric's shtick is that he's smarter and stronger than T'challa and T'challa's feats range from taking down Galactus to beating a Super Skrull in physical combat and in the Ultimates he went out of his way to threaten Monica, Adam and the golden guy(forgot his name) which implies that T'challa thinks or knows that he's capable of taking them down with something. He's beaten people that are more powerful than Monica so I don't know why Eric shouldn't be able to get one upher but people like Man-Ape and Zenzi are done for is they try anything to him while she's protecting him.
I say keep Monica Rambeau as far away from Wakanda as possible, she should only be interacting with T'challa in the Ultimates and as long as they're in space.[/QUOTE]
[B]Ehhhhhhh. Erics deal is that he is superior to him in h2h (Even that is debateable, atleast in Priest and Hudlin's iterations. Mcgregors torture porn was a different beat) and stronger when not counting the KotD, but he is definitely NOT smarter then T'Challa. That was made clear in Priests run before they had the tribal fight. He's smart, but T'Challa is a super genius [/B]
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3118691]Well it kind of makes sense now(not back then) considering Eric's shtick is that he's smarter and stronger than T'challa and T'challa's feats range from taking down Galactus to beating a Super Skrull in physical combat and in the Ultimates he went out of his way to threaten Monica, Adam and the golden guy(forgot his name) which implies that T'challa thinks or knows that he's capable of taking them down with something. He's beaten people that are more powerful than Monica so I don't know why Eric shouldn't be able to get one upher but people like Man-Ape and Zenzi are done for is they try anything to him while she's protecting him.
I say keep Monica Rambeau as far away from Wakanda as possible, she should only be interacting with T'challa in the Ultimates and as long as they're in space.[/QUOTE]
I guess part of the problem for me was I don't see Kill monger being as smart as T'Challa. Though he out sourced for help, so it works I guess.
But ultimately I think that's the difficulty with using Monica. She's powerful to the point where you literally have to come up with ways of preventing alms any fight from ending in a fraction of a second. That means essentially finding ways to always shut her down.
On a lot of instances it's probably a good idea to use her sparingly unless you're facing threats the level Ewing used.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3118336][B]Who is it that he tore down to make tchalla look better?
Honest question, because I don't think he did that, everyone had pretty decent showings in hos run. No one was really chumped to make tchalla seem better. [/B][/QUOTE]
Monica's known how to make sunlight since the 80s. He's lecturing her on underusing her abilities, even though she's had a handle on them almost from the start.
Monica is no rookie, even when she was one.
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[QUOTE=phumgano;3118642]What's your opinion on this Egyptian style BP suit?
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/eGs5AX9.jpg[/IMG]
I don't think I've ever seen anybody talk about it here.
Is the cowl too similar to Batmans?[/QUOTE]
Looks pretty good. I just don't like having the flesh exposed.
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[QUOTE=BlackClaw;3118385]Now this is something I can get behind. Sadly, I know the current writer has a weak excuse of an imagination to follow up on this.[/QUOTE]
Twelve issues of how T'Challa messed up space and didn't know about intergalactic alien rape camps
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[QUOTE=Smoov-E;3118927]Twelve issues of how T'Challa messed up space and didn't know about intergalactic alien rape camps[/QUOTE]
#ItsTChallasfault
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[QUOTE=Smoov-E;3118927]Twelve issues of how T'Challa messed up space and didn't know about intergalactic alien rape camps[/QUOTE]
I don't think we have to worry about Coates on this one. Coates' Bland Panther doesn't know that Wakanda has a space program. We won't be seeing anything cosmic anytime soon.
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3117370]i think all of this is fair as long as consideration is made that is not the character and the writer. i admit post the annulment I didn't necessarily see how bad the x-offices were trolling bp through storm; however, it was very apparent here the last time when the current writer of gold wrote storm kissing gambit as Coates was working to repair bp and storm relationship.
Cyclops will be.on Emma's jock. and if not it will be a love triangle with her and jean, with Logan trying to get jean back. storm won't be a part of that trust.
the point about the writing and management I totally agree with (and was point and I know you personally don't have issue with storm. i can't say I agree that storm should apologize for things leading up to the annulment. she held him down when he almost died, when people including the dora milaje vocally expressed their disapproval of the union, during doomwar when she was humiliated by doom and tchalla seemingly had to think about choosing between her or vibranium she stayed and fought with him, during hell's kitchen when he left her/wakanda and when he saved her life he berated her badly. i hate rehashing the deeds of what occurred during their marriage especially since this is a bp appreciation but she was a loyal wife and put aside herself to prop him up. what she did during AvX was her doing what she believed to be right to prevent the Phoenix from destroying the world. just as bp abandoned wakanda when shuri was believed to have been killed he did it not because he was bad person but for for noble causes. the inconsistent story telling about him heating her was I believe to be an editorial mistake. all in all, I think neither were written to the best the could have been during the marriage and I definitely don't think the annulment was handled well. it was ooc for them both.
i think Coates had written them well working together and showing how effectual they can be to each other both emotionally and as it relates to battling an adversary.[/QUOTE]
Storm bringing a Nazi and associated X-men on some straight up invasion moves onto Wakandan soil was a gross betrayal that showed Ororo to be unfit to be Queen of Wakanda post Hudlin/Liss.
The sooner Coates gets gone from the BP mythos and takes his X-fetishism with him as the door hits his behind the better.
I'm sick and tired of the BP mythos being dragged through the proverbial mud whilst he elevates his pet creations at the expense of T'Challa and his non-Coates created supporting cast.
As I've said before, Coates writes a solid Ororo fully in character and regal as hell.
He's able to do this because he has a genuine appreciation for her character.
Contrast this against his blatantly obvious disdain for T'Challa's character and Wakanda in general wherein both T'Challa and Wakanda are thrown under the proverbial bus at every opportunity.
Marvel editorial should just give Coates an X-book to write and get someone who remembers T'Challa and Wakanda's true pedigree because what's currently being channeled through the BP solo is nothing more than sustained passive/a regressive trolling.
As regards your assertion that Ororo "put herself aside to prop up T'Challa" What are you talking about?
If anything, it can be legitimately argued that Reginald Hudlin's inclusion of Ororo to the BP mythos actually gave her an urgency and relevance to the wider MU than was the case previously and since.
As others have pointed out in this very thread, T'Challa has a blockbuster movie scheduled for release early next year and still remains wildly relevant despite Coates continued hamstringing of his character within his solo book.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3119039]Storm bringing a Nazi and associated X-men on some straight up invasion moves onto Wakandan soil was a gross betrayal that showed Ororo to be unfit to be Queen of Wakanda post Hudlin/Liss.
The sooner Coates gets gone from the BP mythos and takes his X-fetishism with him as the door hits his behind.
I'm sick and tired of the BP mythos being dragged through the proverbial mud whilst he elevates his pet creations at the expense of T'Challa and his non-Coates created supporting cast.
As I've said before, Coates writes a solid Ororo fully in character and regal as hell.
He's able to do this because he has a genuine appreciation for her character.
Contrast this against his blatantly obvious disdain for T'Challa's character and Wakanda in general wherein both T'Challa and Wakanda are thrown under the proverbial bus at every opportunity.
Marvel editorial should just give Coates an X-book to write and get someone who remembers T'Challa and Wakanda's true pedigree because what's currently being channeled through the BP solo is nothing more than sustained passive/a regressive trolling.[/QUOTE]
BP definitely gets no love from Coates at all. It's just issue after issue of the shortcomings and failures of The Bland Panther.
Coates supporters kept saying things were good and going to get better. They were never good and haven't improved.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3119039]Storm bringing a Nazi and associated X-men on some straight up invasion moves onto Wakandan soil was a gross betrayal that showed Ororo to be unfit to be Queen of Wakanda post Hudlin/Liss.[/QUOTE]
It was never going to work post Hudlin. Even during Hudlin run we were getting minis like World's Apart in which Cyclops was a speaker for mutant-editorial in the opening scenes. It was always a matter of time.
No different with Coates. Once Coates leaves.. we all know what's going to happen lol.
[I]Only[/I] difference now is that the novelty of the pairing has long since worn off, sales continue to dip with her (and Coates), and hardcore BP fans don't even care b/c they're guy is actually getting a refreshing make over and love interest via the MCU.
Storm is a lost cause, until the day Fox and Disney play nice... and even then, to be frank, I was a fan of the mytho before her and after her, I certainly don't need her here, nor holding my breath. She's a nice concept, but there are other nice concepts out there.. so the white folks at the mutant-office can have her far as i'm concerned. Bast bless
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3119102]BP definitely gets no love from Coates at all. It's just issue after issue of the shortcomings and failures of The Bland Panther.
Coates supporters kept saying things were good and going to get better. They were never good and haven't improved.[/QUOTE]
But they stay pumping that same message like clockwork.
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3119204]It was never going to work post Hudlin. Even during Hudlin run we were getting minis like World's Apart in which Cyclops was a speaker for mutant-editorial in the opening scenes. It was always a matter of time.
No different with Coates. Once Coates leaves.. we all know what's going to happen lol.
[I]Only[/I] difference now is that the novelty of the pairing has long since worn off, sales continue to dip with her (and Coates), and hardcore BP fans don't even care b/c they're guy is actually getting a refreshing make over and love interest via the MCU.
Storm is a lost cause, until the day Fox and Disney play nice... and even then, to be frank, I was a fan of the mytho before her and after her, I certainly don't need her here, nor holding my breath. She's a nice concept, but there are other nice concepts out there.. so the white folks at the mutant-office can have her far as i'm concerned. Bast bless[/QUOTE]
Agreed 100%.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3119102]BP definitely gets no love from Coates at all. It's just issue after issue of the shortcomings and failures of The Bland Panther.
Coates supporters kept saying things were good and going to get better. They were never good and haven't improved.[/QUOTE]
[B]Honestly it was super obvious from the start, but really BP&C clearly his disdain for BP when he had T'Challa be the only member in that dumpster fire of a book to not have a good showing at all in his solo issue. showed pinning after Storm, getting scolded by old ladies, whining to himself about being afraid to fix his marriage with the gauntlet, and singing some stupid R&b songs... Yea that was his "Shining" issue. whereas everyone else actually did something (With Eden having the best action of all of them) clearly show coates can write a fight scene and even have it be somewhat decent.. But he chooses not to for T'Challa because he does not like him and what he represents. which is a strong powerful african king and super hero. With a unified advanced nation that treats men and women equally [/B]
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[QUOTE=Rumble;3119204]It was never going to work post Hudlin. Even during Hudlin run we were getting minis like World's Apart in which Cyclops was a speaker for mutant-editorial in the opening scenes. It was always a matter of time.
No different with Coates. Once Coates leaves.. we all know what's going to happen lol.
[I]Only[/I] difference now is that the novelty of the pairing has long since worn off, sales continue to dip with her (and Coates), and hardcore BP fans don't even care b/c they're guy is actually getting a refreshing make over and love interest via the MCU.
Storm is a lost cause, until the day Fox and Disney play nice... and even then, to be frank, I was a fan of the mytho before her and after her, I certainly don't need her here, nor holding my breath. She's a nice concept, but there are other nice concepts out there.. so the white folks at the mutant-office can have her far as i'm concerned. Bast bless[/QUOTE]
Bast bless indeed. Black Panther does not need Storm. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?
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[QUOTE=BlackClaw;3119277]Bast bless indeed. Black Panther does not need Storm. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?[/QUOTE]
At this point I don't think anyone literally believes BLack Panther needs Storm. I think some just like them as a couple... and some don't. I think it's as simple as that.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3119221][B]Honestly it was super obvious from the start, but really BP&C clearly his disdain for BP when he had T'Challa be the only member in that dumpster fire of a book to not have a good showing at all in his solo issue. showed pinning after Storm, getting scolded by old ladies, whining to himself about being afraid to fix his marriage with the gauntlet, and singing some stupid R&b songs... Yea that was his "Shining" issue. whereas everyone else actually did something (With Eden having the best action of all of them) clearly show coates can write a fight scene and even have it be somewhat decent.. But he chooses not to for T'Challa because he does not like him and what he represents. which is a strong powerful african king and super hero. With a unified advanced nation that treats men and women equally [/B][/QUOTE]
A simple question to ask is has Coates done anything to advance or add to the character. Did he give T'Challa a "moment", something remarkably significant that BP fans will remember as good for the character.
The simple answer is no.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3119315][B]A simple question to ask is has Coates done anything to advance or add to the character.[/B] Did he give T'Challa a "moment", something remarkably significant that BP fans will remember as good for the character.
The simple answer is no.[/QUOTE]
Make him a character that panders to those who worship at the feet of weak black male leads in projects. Funny this is the version that pushed and not the others-who had to fight everybody along the way.
But this is the same mess we will with Sam Wilson, Static, Michael Cray, Duke Thomas and any other black male that is written against the grain.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3117404]If by well you mean chasing after her like a lost puppy then I agree. Throw some game behave with confidence, that's the ticket. Storm ain't going for some mopey soft spoken man. You know she likes them bad boys. lol[/QUOTE]
I don't see it as mopey. He is just acknowledging his faults and trying to correct what was done in the past.
[QUOTE=phumgano;3117402]Unpopular opinion. Hudlin always had good dialogue that he would undercut by throwing in some quippy line at the end. My favourite scene in his run is the "There is no feat I acheive that you are not capable of" to the little boy. The part where he the people say "And that's why he's the...Black Panther" always threw me off.
And this one. Get rid of that bottom right panel it's a great moment without it.
Side note, this dude calls every woman he wants to diddle a goddess. He's such a dork, man I love T'challa so much.[/QUOTE]
lolol.. that's funny.
however Storm is the one true goddess. her powers and bloodties to the divine link back to the beginning of time. Spectrum, as much as I love her, ain't the real thing.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3118012]See, this is the problem that BP fans have. Storm "propping" BP up.
BP had a series long before Storm became a part of his cast. How could she put herself aside to prop anyone up when she wasn't doing anything in any X-book? If anything, her coming over to BP was a good move to help her. She got out from being 6th in line in the X-books to being featured in a book outside of the X-verse. And when Unfans finally got their wish with the marriage ending and Storm's return, what happened? She got a dreadful solo and her return to her seat on the back of the X-bus.
This isn't speculation or opinion, it's fact. Storm was relegated back to 6th place on the X-list. BP went on to be a lead in Hickman's New Avengers and played a prominent role in Secret Wars. He had a breakout role in a blockbuster movies in Civil War and has one of the most highly anticipated movies coming out soon.
But putting that aside, let's look at what Marvel had her do wrong:
Storm snuck X-Men into Wakanda without telling anyone else in the Royal family or government and put Wakandans at risk. She went Real Housewives of Atlanta with her nasty remarks about her husband. She got into a fist fight with her husband She jumped straight into the arms of another man in minutes without so much a backward glance. She was over T'Challa but interfered in some silly scene thrown out there by an X-writer.
However, like I said, these are action that writers are having Storm commit.[/QUOTE]
1. Maybe i wasnt reslly clear when i used the term prop. When I say she put herself aside to prop Tchalla, she purposefully at times would not intervene at the personal request of Tchalla and when she would he would reprimand her for it (forcefully so). Im talking about in comtext to the actual story not in relation to impact within pop culture.
2. Access to Wakanda, and it's lands, was very much her right as it was Tchalla's. She was the Queen at that point. Her bringing in her friends to try and find hope wasn't to spite the Wakandans or their people but it was to address the bigger issue which was Phoenix which could have destroyed the world.
3. To your points about the writers this I agree on. Jason Aaron sucks as a writer when it comes to Ororo and every time he does write her he shows his inability to do so. AvX was crap not simply because she had him fighting her husband for no reason imo but also because of how he demonstrated her powers. There is no way Tchalla should have been able to remove her use of powers because if shooting nanites in the air. It was all just dreadful to read.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3119039]Storm bringing a Nazi and associated X-men on some straight up invasion moves onto Wakandan soil was a gross betrayal that showed Ororo to be unfit to be Queen of Wakanda post Hudlin/Liss.
The sooner Coates gets gone from the BP mythos and takes his X-fetishism with him as the door hits his behind.
I'm sick and tired of the BP mythos being dragged through the proverbial mud whilst he elevates his pet creations at the expense of T'Challa and his non-Coates created supporting cast.
As I've said before, Coates writes a solid Ororo fully in character and regal as hell.
He's able to do this because he has a genuine appreciation for her character.
Contrast this against his blatantly obvious disdain for T'Challa's character and Wakanda in general wherein both T'Challa and Wakanda are thrown under the proverbial bus at every opportunity.
Marvel editorial should just give Coates an X-book to write and get someone who remembers T'Challa and Wakanda's true pedigree because what's currently being channeled through the BP solo is nothing more than sustained passive/a regressive trolling.[/QUOTE]
1. Who was the Nazi she brought in with her? To your point about her betrayal of Wakandan soil, as I mentioned to Marvell as queen she had every right to bring whom she chose to bring. They weren't coming to destory or hurt the Wakandan people. Just as Tchalla when he left Shuri to die was doing that for a bigger cause, so was Ororo when she did what she did.
2. As I said in the past, I don't argue for Coates against the many long time fans here as there are many who agree he isn't doing him justice. That said, I still feel as though this road to redemption was necessary (perhaps it could have been handled differently) considering all that occurred prior to Coates coming on board.
[QUOTE=XPac;3119293]At this point I don't think anyone literally believes BLack Panther needs Storm. I think some just like them as a couple... and some don't. I think it's as simple as that.[/QUOTE]
exactly.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3119315]A simple question to ask is has Coates done anything to advance or add to the character. Did he give T'Challa a "moment", something remarkably significant that BP fans will remember as good for the character.
The simple answer is no.[/QUOTE]
[B]"His Shining moment was when he turned enemies into allies" is what they will say.
"Remember those enemies, who were previously allies, then started spouting no one man and were responsible for the deaths of legions and sided with known terrorist who were killing the people they were supposed to be protecting, and when they finally left that group due to, surprise surprise rape! They not only Hid til between their legs As T'Challa stopped them, but then even had the audacity to throw a hissy fit after all was said and done. and T'Challa Caved and exonerated them of all crimes and gave them exactly what they wanted and they still acted like spoiled children. Real "Shining" moment there.... is what i say [/B]