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A long range detailed general history of Wakanda has yet to be addressed by any writer. We've gotten snippets here and there, and Hudlin added some thousands of years, depending on where one would like to start the Before Common Era timline. It's an open playing field for a writer who truly wants to world build in Marvel comics. Atlantis, Kun Lun, Eternals/Deviants, cosmic in general have been written about and I know others have all had a writer address specifics to one extent or another for all these different mythos. Wakanda has had a few short ones from the beginning of Hudlin run, some very general and nebulous stuff from Hickman, Flags of our Fathers, and some others from the 20th century. Namor and Azzuri? Engaging during ww2. But no REAL world building from centuries and millenia past. Wakamda is an open sandbox for any writer who really wants to make a stamp on Marvel continuity and leave a legacy of world building with their personal spin of story telling ability. I don't think Coates will address it. He is referencing a book for his first arc that was about relatively modern struggles of blacks in the United States, but as far as I know now, nothing ancient. Some writer should take this opportunity and run all the way into the marvel history books.
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Wakanda isolationist stance is easy to understand. They are warriors not conquerors.
To create and maintain any meaningful change with their neighbors would require takeover. The people in power are not going to give up control even if its to theitheir benefit.
There are too many who benefits from misery to let Wakanda do what needs to be done. Hudlin touched on this. TChaka touch on what the rest of the world is capable of, and just refusing to do.
Also expansion mean dilution. You cant walk into hell without getting hot. An expansionist Wakanda would no longer be Wakanda. Its easier to preserve a culture and maintain success with a population of a million than a billion.
Sometimes its better to lead by example than to drag others along to success.
Its not a kind view of the world, but its a realistic one.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1741254]Wakanda isolationist stance is easy to understand. They are warriors not conquerors.
To create and maintain any meaningful change with their neighbors would require takeover. The people in power are not going to give up control even if its to theitheir benefit.
There are too many who benefits from misery to let Wakanda do what needs to be done. Hudlin touched on this. TChaka touch on what the rest of the world is capable of, and just refusing to do.
Also expansion mean dilution. You cant walk into hell without getting hot. An expansionist Wakanda would no longer be Wakanda. Its easier to preserve a culture and maintain success with a population of a million than a billion.
Sometimes its better to lead by example than to drag others along to success.
Its not a kind view of the world, but its a realistic one.[/QUOTE]
I think that was sort of the message Hickman was trying to get across.
Being a king isn't about being kind. It's about being realistic and practial. But from the perspective of those you're refusing to be kind to, you can come off looking like a monster.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1741254]Wakanda isolationist stance is easy to understand. They are warriors not conquerors.
To create and maintain any meaningful change with their neighbors would require takeover. The people in power are not going to give up control even if its to theitheir benefit.
There are too many who benefits from misery to let Wakanda do what needs to be done. Hudlin touched on this. TChaka touch on what the rest of the world is capable of, and just refusing to do.
Also expansion mean dilution. You cant walk into hell without getting hot. An expansionist Wakanda would no longer be Wakanda. Its easier to preserve a culture and maintain success with a population of a million than a billion.
Sometimes its better to lead by example than to drag others along to success.
Its not a kind view of the world, but its a realistic one.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
This ideology is also very very common in geopolitics since forever. It's not even about being a King or having a monarchy. Presidents, prime ministers, and other national leaders have to think that way.
To expect the Wakandans, especially with their isolationist stance, to not adhere to this means one may not understand the realities of how countries, both in fiction and non-fiction, operate.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1741350]Exactly.
This ideology is also very very common in geopolitics since forever. It's not even about being a King or having a monarchy. Presidents, prime ministers, and other national leaders have to think that way.
To expect the Wakandans, especially with their isolationist stance, to not adhere to this means one may not understand the realities of how countries, both in fiction and non-fiction, operate.[/QUOTE]
I think the issue is simply whether or not a given writer should go out of their way to highlight the fact that Wakanda didn't bother helping it's neighbor.
It's not unrealistic that they wouldn't .... and frankly it's even necessary that they don't since you don't necessarily want them solving real life problems to the point where the MU stops looking like the world outside our window. But when writers like Hickman amd Hudlin go out of their way to spell this out, it doesn't make them look good.
Though in the least to some degree it makes T'Challa look better by comparison in that he's working to change that to SOME degree at least.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1741350]Exactly.
This ideology is also very very common in geopolitics since forever. It's not even about being a King or having a monarchy. Presidents, prime ministers, and other national leaders have to think that way.
To expect the Wakandans, especially with their isolationist stance, to not adhere to this means one may not understand the realities of how countries, both in fiction and non-fiction, operate.[/QUOTE]
Ok, but then why is it being highlighted that Hickman was wrong for showing exactly this? I mean, the whole "beggars behind the gate" stuff was pretty explicit, but geopolitically, Wakanda has always done this.
Would I like a secret agency within Wakanda fixing other parts of Africa? Yeah. I want a BP to kill Leopold's ass. But until written otherwise, that's not the case.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;1741066]A long range detailed general history of Wakanda has yet to be addressed by any writer. We've gotten snippets here and there, and Hudlin added some thousands of years, depending on where one would like to start the Before Common Era timline. It's an open playing field for a writer who truly wants to world build in Marvel comics. Atlantis, Kun Lun, Eternals/Deviants, cosmic in general have been written about and I know others have all had a writer address specifics to one extent or another for all these different mythos. Wakanda has had a few short ones from the beginning of Hudlin run, some very general and nebulous stuff from Hickman, Flags of our Fathers, and some others from the 20th century. Namor and Azzuri? Engaging during ww2. But no REAL world building from centuries and millenia past. Wakamda is an open sandbox for any writer who really wants to make a stamp on Marvel continuity and leave a legacy of world building with their personal spin of story telling ability. I don't think Coates will address it. He is referencing a book for his first arc that was about relatively modern struggles of blacks in the United States, but as far as I know now, nothing ancient. Some writer should take this opportunity and run all the way into the marvel history books.[/QUOTE]
[B]I Personally think it would be cool to get one issues of a few Key BPs in history, Bashenga for sure, that Shaman looking one, maybe the First female BP. and another of Azzuri or T'Chaka[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1741425][B]I Personally think it would be cool to get one issues of a few Key BPs in history, Bashenga for sure, that Shaman looking one, maybe the First female BP. and another of Azzuri or T'Chaka[/B][/QUOTE]
In addition to the more famous ones I actually was curious about a couple of the ones we saw purely because of how they looked.
The one that seemed to be an actual Panther for example. The one in the business suit also looked pretty 007.
Maybe down the line we'll at least get a handbook entry or something.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1741488]In addition to the more famous ones I actually was curious about a couple of the ones we saw purely because of how they looked.
The one that seemed to be an actual Panther for example. The one in the business suit also looked pretty 007.
Maybe down the line we'll at least get a handbook entry or something.[/QUOTE]
I figured the 007 looking one was S'Yan, actually.
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1741514]I figured the 007 looking one was S'Yan, actually.[/QUOTE]
Good guess your probably right
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1741514]I figured the 007 looking one was S'Yan, actually.[/QUOTE]
[B]Still will be cool to get a History of the Black Panthers. Hell it would even be cool to have an Arc where King Solomon's Frogs take T'Challa back in time to meet and fight alongside some of his ancestors. It would be a easy way to incorporate them into a story and give some inside on what they had to deal with and overcome [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1741644][B]Still will be cool to get a History of the Black Panthers. Hell it would even be cool to have an Arc where King Solomon's Frogs take T'Challa back in time to meet and fight alongside some of his ancestors. It would be a easy way to incorporate them into a story and give some inside on what they had to deal with and overcome [/B][/QUOTE]
Great idea....
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1741644][B]Still will be cool to get a History of the Black Panthers. Hell it would even be cool to have an Arc where King Solomon's Frogs take T'Challa back in time to meet and fight alongside some of his ancestors. It would be a easy way to incorporate them into a story and give some inside on what they had to deal with and overcome [/B][/QUOTE]
It'd be better if it weren't T'Challa to be honest. After all, we can't drop all the cool arcs and settings on him alone, but rather develop the world around him like people did for Batman and Superman and Spiderman and Captain America.
I've been doing a little more brainstorming regarding BP concepts, and it strikes me that using the Collectors, King Solomon's Frogs and time-travel could be a great way to introduce future characters into the Black Panther mythos. Imagine for example, if we riffed on Black Panther's appearance on 2099 or any other of the alternate universes and came up with a couple of kids from T'Challa, Exiles style. Give them some codenames (say, Shadowclaw & Sky Panther) and some backstory (one is Monica's son, the other is Storm's daughter) and throw them into stuff with the Collectors and then the Frogs, throwing them and the Collectors back in time and doing a Samurai Jack where they're getting involved in historical events while trying to regain the Frogs to return to their own times/worlds.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1741644][B]Still will be cool to get a History of the Black Panthers. Hell it would even be cool to have an Arc where King Solomon's Frogs take T'Challa back in time to meet and fight alongside some of his ancestors. It would be a easy way to incorporate them into a story and give some inside on what they had to deal with and overcome [/B][/QUOTE]
I think that would be a great idea. Or it could be used as the vehicle to do a Tales of Wakanda mini series
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Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing something along the lines of Baron Zemo: Born Better. To tell the long story short, Helmut gets transported to the past and meets all of his anscestors. Some are good, some are bad, but the whole trip teaches him a lesson. Either way, seeing T'Challa somehow take a trip through the live of all previous Black Panthers would make for an interesting one. Some would be ruthless and vile, others could be peaceful, etc, etc. Plus, you could expand the mythos and possibly introduce a new villain (maybe he's behind T'Challa's trip in an attempt to erade him from existence).
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Response Part 1.
[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1739528]... Majestik, what are you on about? Priest's [I][B]first [/B][/I]arc with Enemy of the State had Wakandans bitching about having to take care of Ghudazans refugees. Hudlin explicitly had Wakanda hold onto the cure for [B][I]cancer [/I][/B]out of some sense of spiritual superiority, and also had them be a 10,000 year old superpower that never involved themselves regarding the division of Africa by the European powers, or apartheid or anything else barring perhaps that arc with Niganda. Literally none of either man's writing had anything to do with greater Africa and by and large wasn't all that positive if done. The Pan-African Congress on the Treatment of Superhumans didn't result in anything. T'Challa funded Mutantes Sans Frontieres who then did a mission in Mbangwai, but that didn't end well.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=3]
I'll have to break my response tou your query into two seperate halves due to the not more than 3 scan per post rewstrictions that prevail in this forum but firstly, let me address the aspect of your post relating questing my statement to the effect that Preist and Hudlin's respective takes on Wakanda, did not have them turning away from assisting their immediate neighbours....
The Reginald hudlin penned Black Panther Annual that dropped in 2008, touched on a number of interesting themes that (to my knowledge) had never before been explored within the Black Panther mythos.
One such theme, was the matter of the Transatlantic Slave Trade and Wakanda's reaction to same....
[url=http://postimg.org/image/mczjrq415/][img]http://s20.postimg.org/mczjrq415/Rebuttal1.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://postimg.org/image/i54riz2ll/][img]http://s20.postimg.org/i54riz2ll/Rebuttal2.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://postimg.org/image/b36twryzt/][img]http://s20.postimg.org/b36twryzt/Rebuttal3.jpg[/img][/url]
The above posted scans clearly illustrate a Wakanda taking a covert interest in assisting their neighbours to be self sufficient in their pushback against the encroachment into their territories by white slavers.
As evidenced by the provided scans, your assertions to the effect that pre-T'Challa, Wakanda did not involve itself in international affairs is not particularly accurate or in line with what Hudlin chronicled in the aforementioned Black Panther Annual. (2008)
Hudlin scripted Storm explaining to her son quite clearly why Wakanda did not go all out to take on the entire Western World in relation to the slavery issue in a manner that made sense and went a long way to show just how forward thinking the Wakandan elders were in realtion to projected world events and their long term impact on Wakanda if foresight and intiuitive nuance was not present in Wakandan foreign policy.
And as far as the Mutantes Sans Frontieres mission in Mbangwai is concerned, though financed by T'Challa the mission that brought Ororo and the X-men into conflict with Dr Crocodile was written by Garth Ennis and had ZERO to do with Priest or Hudlin so I'm somewhat nonplusseed as to why you've mentioned it in your post?
Moreover, in your own words, you state that...
[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1739528]Priest's [I][B]first [/B][/I]arc with Enemy of the State had Wakandans bitching about having to take care of Ghudazans refugees.[/QUOTE]
[B]
The Wakandan's would have had to have take in Ghudazan refugees in the first place to actually have something to bitch about. Yes?[/B][/SIZE]
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Response Part 2.
[SIZE=3][B]This old chestnut again?[/B][/SIZE]
[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1739528]Hudlin explicitly had Wakanda hold onto the cure for [B][I]cancer [/I][/B]out of some sense of spiritual superiority,
[/QUOTE][SIZE=3]
Correction.
Reginald Hudlin explicitly had King T'Chaka speaking quite clearly on his reasons for not wishing to recklessly share Wakandan scientific advances with the West in a clear and unambiguous manner as evidenced below....
[url=http://postimg.org/image/kimp9zh0p/][img]http://s20.postimg.org/kimp9zh0p/Rebuttal4.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://postimg.org/image/u4kv40xk9/][img]http://s20.postimg.org/u4kv40xk9/Rebuttal5.jpg[/img][/url]
And this was touched upon again later on in the same story with even more of an explanation as to why Wakanda would be reluctant to share this particular advancement with the West...
[url=http://postimg.org/image/nr0txvyzt/][img]http://s20.postimg.org/nr0txvyzt/Rebuttal6.jpg[/img][/url]
I rest my case....
[url]http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/price-parasite-fighting-drug-jumps-1350-750-pill[/url]
As far as I'm concerned, Hickman's portrayal of the Wakandans as being callous towards their neighbours was not in line with what either Priest or Hudlin portrayed during their much more nuanced depictions of the Wakandan people.[/SIZE]
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[QUOTE=XPac;1741308]I think that was sort of the message Hickman was trying to get across.
Being a king isn't about being kind. It's about being realistic and practial. But from the perspective of those you're refusing to be kind to, you can come off looking like a monster.[/QUOTE]
Then it's a message that he failed spectacularly at getting across when measured against what Priest and Hudlin did with the same subject.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1741913][SIZE=3]
One such theme, was the matter of the Transatlantic Slave Trade and Wakanda's reaction to same....
The above posted scans clearly illustrate a Wakanda taking a covert interest in assisting their neighbours to be self sufficient in their pushback against the encroachment into their territories by white slavers. As evidenced by the provided scans, your assertions to the effect that pre-T'Challa, Wakanda did not involve itself in international affairs is not particularly accurate or in line with what Hudlin chronicled in the aforementioned Black Panther Annual. (2008) Hudlin scripted Storm explaining to her son quite clearly why Wakanda did not go all out to take on the entire Western World in relation to the slavery issue in a manner that made sense and went a long way to show just how forward thinking the Wakandan elders were in realtion to projected world events and their long term impact on Wakanda if foresight and intiuitive nuance was not present in Wakandan foreign policy.[/quote]
I'll refer you to my prior post: "Literally none of either man's writing had anything to do with greater Africa and by and large wasn't all that positive if done."
Hudlin's Wakanda didn't stop the slave-trade. It didn't significantly slow it down either, since we're not presented with any noticeable differences from IRL during the Annual. Which was odd, because Hudlin could have done something like say the Trans-Atlantic trade ended far earlier with North American slaver countries finding it too costly or something. Instead, he went with "Wakanda totally kicked everyone's ass, but then decided to force a cease-fire because impressing their views regarding slavery on the rest of the world would have been too costly and cost Wakanda so much. So Wakanda left it be and hoped that other people would realize slavery was bad in time and grow to appreciate what Africa had to offer."
[quote]
And as far as the Mutantes Sans Frontieres mission in Mbangwai is concerned, though financed by T'Challa the mission that brought Ororo and the X-men into conflict with Dr Crocodile was written by Garth Ennis and had ZERO to do with Priest or Hudlin so I'm somewhat nonplusseed as to why you've mentioned it in your post?[/SIZE][/QUOTE] For some reason I assumed that was one of the bits that Hudlin tried to do when he got T'Challa and Storm together, since we all know how little the X-Men office cared about using the Wakanda setting when Storm jumped over.
[QUOTE]
Moreover, in your own words, you state that... [B]
The Wakandan's would have had to have take in Ghudazan refugees in the first place to actually have something to bitch about. Yes?[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, refugee camps on the border, same with Ujanka. And if you're going to pretend that that was the Wakandan people as a whole and not T'Challa... then I've got nothing to say there.
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1741945]I'll refer you to my prior post: "Literally none of either man's writing had anything to do with greater Africa and by and large wasn't all that positive if done."[/QUOTE]
And my original post had nothing to do with whether either Priest or Hudlin wrote anything to do with greater Africa. I spoke on both writers handling of Wakanda's portrayal as opposed to Hickman's.
[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1741945]Hudlin's Wakanda didn't stop the slave-trade. It didn't significantly slow it down either, since we're not presented with any noticeable differences from IRL during the Annual. Which was odd, because Hudlin could have done something like say the Trans-Atlantic trade ended far earlier with North American slaver countries finding it too costly or something. Instead, he went with "Wakanda totally kicked everyone's ass, but then decided to force a cease-fire because impressing their views regarding slavery on the rest of the world would have been too costly and cost Wakanda so much. So Wakanda left it be and hoped that other people would realize slavery was bad in time and grow to appreciate what Africa had to offer." [/QUOTE]
And your point is what exactly?
It was pretty clear what Hudlin did in that annual and I for one, had no problem with the way the story played out.
[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1741945] For some reason I assumed that was one of the bits that Hudlin tried to do when he got T'Challa and Storm together, since we all know how little the X-Men office cared about using the Wakanda setting when Storm jumped over.[/QUOTE]
It was an interesting idea handled in the usual hamfisted "blame the victim for their own demise" style exhibited by some X-writers whenver Wakanda or any other African country was in the frame but I liked it for the way in which Dr Crocodile was portrayed.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1741928]
Correction.
Reginald Hudlin explicitly had King T'Chaka speaking quite clearly on his reasons for not wishing to recklessly share Wakandan scientific advances with the West in a clear and unambiguous manner as evidenced below....[/quote]
He had T'Chaka act like a total dick. The guy who spoke to him said nothing about profit or what have you.
He just said "We'll pay any price."
Does that sound like a man interested in profit? Hell, he even apologized when T'Chaka got offended over using his given name and walked out, and it was clear by his expression he wasn't expecting such a hostile reaction from someone who agreed to come to the meeting.
[QUOTE]
And this was touched upon again later on in the same story with even more of an explanation as to why Wakanda would be reluctant to share this particular advancement with the West...
[/QUOTE]
"They sell cigarettes, so fuck everyone who suffers from cancer."
"We should consider trading cancer cure for vengeance, and not you know, because people will die of cancer and that's horrible."
Ignoring of course that there are dozens and dozens of kinds of cancer, each strain with different stimuli, influences and the like. It's not at all about smoking cigarrettes and you don't blame the citizen for what corporations do or don't do, especially when there's no such single as a single cure to cancer in real life.
[QUOTE]
[url]http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/price-parasite-fighting-drug-jumps-1350-750-pill[/url][/QUOTE]
Difference is that this douche bought the drug to do it with. Wakanda controls the drug here. It controls the patent. It can literally distribute it for free and undercut any company trying to profit on it. And they didn't. Why? Because fuck everyone else, they got theirs. Fuck people living in a society not Wakandan, because they're not Wakandan and Wakanda got itself, amiright?
[quote]
As far as I'm concerned, Hickman's portrayal of the Wakandans as being callous towards their neighbours was not in line with what either Priest or Hudlin portrayed during their much more nuanced depictions of the Wakandan people.[/QUOTE] And as far as I can see, this is either nostalgia goggles or some serious anger over the cards Shuri got dealt.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1741961]And my original post had nothing to do with whether either Priest or Hudlin wrote anything to do with greater Africa. I spoke on both writers handling of Wakanda's portrayal as opposed to Hickman's. [/quote] And I spoke in regards to what they did in relation to greater Africa through Wakanda. And as I said then and as I say now, nothing ultimately positive came out of it.
[QUOTE]
And your point is what exactly?
It was pretty clear what Hudlin did in that annual and I for one, had no problem with the way the story played out.[/QUOTE]
Hudlin's slavery annual basically did this to the timeline of the transatlantic trade:
IRL: -------
Hudlin: ----O---
If you're confused, that's O is a circle going around itself, because all Hudlin did was run the Wakandans around in a circle to give them some example of human decency before having them just drop the whole affair and let real life go on as it did. Slavery wasn't significantly stopped or mitigated as far as we were informed, the Wakandans made a big show of things before dropping the whole affair and just going back to their own concerns and life went on.
I'm not sure why exactly you're fine with it, but for me that was just jaw-dropping, and an example of Hudlin scrambling to answer criticism on why a ten-thousand year old superpower did nothing to effect the course of human history. I don't blame Hudlin for scrambling to do that sort of thing, I don't. His run was meant to be a mini-series and out of continuity. But that annual did nothing well, least of all the slavery discussion.
[quote]
It was an interesting idea handled in the usual hamfisted "blame the victim for their own demise" style exhibited by some X-writers whenver Wakanda or any other African country was in the frame but I liked it for the way in which Dr Crocodile was portrayed.[/QUOTE]
Mhm. I always did like Doc Croc and that arc was well done from his perspective.
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1741990]He had T'Chaka act like a total dick. The guy who spoke to him said nothing about profit or what have you.
He just said "We'll pay any price."
Does that sound like a man interested in profit? Hell, he even apologized when T'Chaka got offended over using his given name and walked out, and it was clear by his expression he wasn't expecting such a hostile reaction from someone who agreed to come to the meeting.
"They sell cigarettes, so fuck everyone who suffers from cancer."
"We should consider trading cancer cure for vengeance, and not you know, because people will die of cancer and that's horrible."
Ignoring of course that there are dozens and dozens of kinds of cancer, each strain with different stimuli, influences and the like. It's not at all about smoking cigarrettes and you don't blame the citizen for what corporations do or don't do, especially when there's no such single as a single cure to cancer in real life.
Difference is that this douche bought the drug to do it with. Wakanda controls the drug here. It controls the patent. It can literally distribute it for free and undercut any company trying to profit on it. And they didn't. Why? Because fuck everyone else, they got theirs. Fuck people living in a society not Wakandan, because they're not Wakandan and Wakanda got itself, amiright?
And as far as I can see, this is either nostalgia goggles or some serious anger over the cards Shuri got dealt.
And I spoke in regards to what they did in relation to greater Africa through Wakanda. And as I said then and as I say now, nothing ultimately positive came out of it.
Hudlin's slavery annual basically did this to the timeline of the transatlantic trade:
IRL: -------
Hudlin: ----O---
If you're confused, that's O is a circle going around itself, because all Hudlin did was run the Wakandans around in a circle to give them some example of human decency before having them just drop the whole affair and let real life go on as it did. Slavery wasn't significantly stopped or mitigated as far as we were informed, the Wakandans made a big show of things before dropping the whole affair and just going back to their own concerns and life went on.
I'm not sure why exactly you're fine with it, but for me that was just jaw-dropping, and an example of Hudlin scrambling to answer criticism on why a ten-thousand year old superpower did nothing to effect the course of human history. I don't blame Hudlin for scrambling to do that sort of thing, I don't. His run was meant to be a mini-series and out of continuity. But that annual did nothing well, least of all the slavery discussion.
Mhm. I always did like Doc Croc and that arc was well done from his perspective.[/QUOTE]
Funny thing about the while cancer cure thing is that T'Challa was one if the heroes who showed up to help Mar-Vell with his cancer back in the day.
It's always hard for me not to reread that story while thinking T'Challa had the cure fie cancer the entire time. Retcons can do weird things like that sometimes.
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As of right now, what do you guys think are the best feats that BP has on his resume?
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[QUOTE=Dark Knight1047;1742022]As of right now, what do you guys think are the best feats that BP has on his resume?[/QUOTE]
Ripping Mephisto's heart out is up there.
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[QUOTE=Dark Knight1047;1742022]As of right now, what do you guys think are the best feats that BP has on his resume?[/QUOTE]
Outsmarting Mephisto jumps in my brain first.
EDTI: LOL Xpac posted while I was typing, hilarious
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[QUOTE=XPac;1742019]Funny thing about the while cancer cure thing is that T'Challa was one if the heroes who showed up to help Mar-Vell with his cancer back in the day.
It's always hard for me not to reread that story while thinking T'Challa had the cure fie cancer the entire time. Retcons can do weird things like that sometimes.[/QUOTE]
Worse yet, he was in the room when Mar-vell died. I've always tried to excuse it as Mar-vell being a Kree and so having a cancer humans couldn't cure with their own remedies, but it's always left a sour taste in my mouth, especially since my grandmother died of leukemia.
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[QUOTE=ZeroBG82;1740178]Islam has only one god, and it's pretty much the same one as the Judeo-Christian world. So unless the U.S. is naming it's warships after Jesus or Yahweh, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.[/QUOTE]
Beat me to it. Thank you.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1742030]Outsmarting Mephisto jumps in my brain first.
EDTI: LOL Xpac posted while I was typing, hilarious[/QUOTE]
[B]Don't forget beating Iron man's most advanced armor on the planet with Windex. Thats also up there[/B]
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Been thinking a bit more about a solo BP franchise, came up with some titles.
[LIST][*]Phase 1:
[INDENT][*]Black Panther I: Enemy of the State [*]American Tiger: Black & White[*]Black Panther II: Killmonger[*]American Tiger II: The Crew[*]Black Panther III: King of the Dead[/INDENT][*]Phase 2:
[INDENT][*]American Tiger III: Fear & Loathing[*]Black Panther IV: Hail to the Queen[*]Shadowclaw & Sky Panther: The Collectors[*]Black Panther V: The Great Beasts[*]Shadowclaw & Sky Panther: Lost In Time[*]Black Panther VI: Incursion[/INDENT][/LIST]
Thoughts?
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1742069][B]Don't forget beating Iron man's most advanced armor on the planet with Windex. Thats also up there[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah. Not sure that quite tips the Mephisto thing but it's my personal favorite.
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1741990]He had T'Chaka act like a total dick. The guy who spoke to him said nothing about profit or what have you.
He just said "We'll pay any price."
Does that sound like a man interested in profit? Hell, he even apologized when T'Chaka got offended over using his given name and walked out, and it was clear by his expression he wasn't expecting such a hostile reaction from someone who agreed to come to the meeting.
"They sell cigarettes, so fuck everyone who suffers from cancer."
"We should consider trading cancer cure for vengeance, and not you know, because people will die of cancer and that's horrible."
Ignoring of course that there are dozens and dozens of kinds of cancer, each strain with different stimuli, influences and the like. It's not at all about smoking cigarrettes and you don't blame the citizen for what corporations do or don't do, especially when there's no such single as a single cure to cancer in real life.
Difference is that this douche bought the drug to do it with. Wakanda controls the drug here. It controls the patent. It can literally distribute it for free and undercut any company trying to profit on it. And they didn't. Why? Because fuck everyone else, they got theirs. Fuck people living in a society not Wakandan, because they're not Wakandan and Wakanda got itself, amiright?
And as far as I can see, this is either nostalgia goggles or some serious anger over the cards Shuri got dealt.
And I spoke in regards to what they did in relation to greater Africa through Wakanda. And as I said then and as I say now, nothing ultimately positive came out of it.
Hudlin's slavery annual basically did this to the timeline of the transatlantic trade:
IRL: -------
Hudlin: ----O---
If you're confused, that's O is a circle going around itself, because all Hudlin did was run the Wakandans around in a circle to give them some example of human decency before having them just drop the whole affair and let real life go on as it did. Slavery wasn't significantly stopped or mitigated as far as we were informed, the Wakandans made a big show of things before dropping the whole affair and just going back to their own concerns and life went on.
I'm not sure why exactly you're fine with it, but for me that was just jaw-dropping, and an example of Hudlin scrambling to answer criticism on why a ten-thousand year old superpower did nothing to effect the course of human history. I don't blame Hudlin for scrambling to do that sort of thing, I don't. His run was meant to be a mini-series and out of continuity. But that annual did nothing well, least of all the slavery discussion.
Mhm. I always did like Doc Croc and that arc was well done from his perspective.[/QUOTE]
I'm not confused or angry about anything so I'm not sure where you're coming from on that angle.
We merely see things from diametrically opposed positions.
In my culture, we don't call elders by their first names no matter how close to them we may feel, so as far as I'm concerned, T'Chaka's response and attendant behaviour was 100% accurate regardless of whether you percieved it as being dickish or not.
The real world big pharma industry issue has been a big one for the longest time as more people find out about how clandestine and underhanded it really is so forgive me for not being too perturbed about the fictional Wakandan's witholding something which would probably be weaponised if it fell into the wrong hands.
I really liked what Priest, Hudlin, McDuffie and Liss did with the BP mythos but as far as Maberry and Hickman, hell to the frak'ng no.
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1741838]It'd be better if it weren't T'Challa to be honest. After all, we can't drop all the cool arcs and settings on him alone, but rather develop the world around him like people did for Batman and Superman and Spiderman and Captain America.
I've been doing a little more brainstorming regarding BP concepts, and it strikes me that using the Collectors, King Solomon's Frogs and time-travel could be a great way to introduce future characters into the Black Panther mythos. Imagine for example, if we riffed on Black Panther's appearance on 2099 or any other of the alternate universes and came up with a couple of kids from T'Challa, Exiles style. Give them some codenames (say, Shadowclaw & Sky Panther) and some backstory (one is Monica's son, the other is Storm's daughter) and throw them into stuff with the Collectors and then the Frogs, throwing them and the Collectors back in time and doing a Samurai Jack where they're getting involved in historical events while trying to regain the Frogs to return to their own times/worlds.[/QUOTE]
[B]I would love to see a Team of Dora's and Hatute lead by Shuri and Feature supporting memebers currently in limbo Sofia, Okoye, QDJ, Vibraxas (retconned to Hatute zeraze member) and add in a new character to be apart of the the Dogs of war with Vibraxas. You could even through in Nakia and have her go crazy in there and betray them at some point to form her own group. But i am totally on board with them making use of the supporting cast[/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;1742074]Yeah. Not sure that quite tips the Mephisto thing but it's my personal favorite.[/QUOTE]
[B]No... but its one of my favs. It was just pure awesome, [/B]
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Taking down that fighting Superskrull was a pretty cool feat.
Also building a craft that survived the end or the universe recently and then saving the entire universe using the infinity stone
thanks Hickman :cool:
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[QUOTE=Double 0;1741397]Ok, but then why is it being highlighted that Hickman was wrong for showing exactly this? I mean, the whole "beggars behind the gate" stuff was pretty explicit, but geopolitically, Wakanda has always done this.
Would I like a secret agency within Wakanda fixing other parts of Africa? Yeah. I want a BP to kill Leopold's ass. But until written otherwise, that's not the case.[/QUOTE]
My general point is that Wakanda shouldn't be expected to fix other nation's / tribes' problems, especially if it doesn't directly benefit Wakanda. Its simply not practical and they have priorities inside their own borders. Same reason why, for the most part, most nations don't do that as well.
Your Leopold example: I'd def read it if it ever came out.
As for the example given in NA:
[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3DBDE53ORl8/U3OsM64JLuI/AAAAAAADWkg/net9PfvbRhI/s1600/-011+copy.jpg[/IMG]
My real issue with that is the example that was actually shown on panel (perhaps its more on the artist, in this case? Not sure). Hickman's writing on that panel is more or less in line with what I mentioned in my post.
However, the panel insinuates that Wakanda helping in any way the refugees in this situation, who are begging for help at its walls for who knows how long, would somehow blow its cover. I'm honestly not sure how that would be the case, as it wasn't explained. As is, the example almost seems in line with a lot of stuff in NA: done to advance the plot. The plot required that Wakandans, and specifically BPs, be shown as significantly ruthless, thus it was done. As you mentioned yourself, the example given was quite explicit.
I think the following scenario would fit more my previous post and would've helped emphasize Hickman's point without going too far, imo.
-Leaders of a neighboring nation (hypothetically where the refugees come from) come to Wakanda, desperately seeking aid for their crisis.
-The BP (let's say T'Chaka) insists that Wakanda does not interfere in the affairs of others. He refused to help.
-We then see the bloodshed / devastation / mayhem that occurs in said nation, due to Wakanda refusing to help out.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;1742181]Taking down that fighting Superskrull was a pretty cool feat.
Also building a craft that survived the end or the universe recently and then saving the entire universe using the infinity stone
thanks Hickman :cool:[/QUOTE]
Life raft is definitely up there and there is no ambiguity, except from haters, that it was all him. It was si good reed cimplimented and maker copied.
SW ending is more ambiguous.
I go with mephisto bc out tricking mephisto is like out tricking loki... its rare. Plus... it was bad ass as hell lol
And see wakanda and die is Tchalla at his finest.
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so it seems like t'challa and the maker are the only ones that know of the previous multiverse/battleworld
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I liked T'Challa's fight vs the Red Skull in Avengers Red Zone. His portrayal in the series had the right tone to it. And he [I]did[/I] break the Skull's jaw. :cool:
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As if fictional Wakanda could stop real world problems. Why haven't Reed or Stark or Doom? Don't put too much responsibility on them, my brothers. There are no characters or societies in Marvel fiction that might not be accountable for modern or historical atrocities. What can be addressed are literary holes in Wakanda history as pertaining to universe 616 or whatever it is now called.
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;1742414]As if fictional Wakanda could stop real world problems. Why haven't Reed or Stark or Doom? Don't put too much responsibility on them, my brothers. There are no characters or societies in Marvel fiction that might not be accountable for modern or historical atrocities. What can be addressed are literary holes in Wakanda history as pertaining to universe 616 or whatever it is now called.[/QUOTE]
I have said that before. Well, Doom is a villain, so i dont hold him responsible for anything. Even though in Emperor Doom, Doom tackled real world problems. Doom ended hunger and most of the worlds ills. He did it with mind control
No one person or country could solve all the worlds problems.