-
"Turn my ex-wife into a goddess." isn't a plan. Especially since, as some in this thread have hinted, the goal wasn't to save Wakanda but make them accept Storm again.
(Which, if true, is INCREDIBLY selfish of him.)
But yeah, I'm OK with agreeing to disagree.
-
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3717411]"Turn my ex-wife into a goddess." isn't a plan. Especially since, as some in this thread have hinted, the goal wasn't to save Wakanda but make them accept Storm again.
(Which, if true, is INCREDIBLY selfish of him.)
But yeah, I'm OK with agreeing to disagree.[/QUOTE]
It wasn't selfish because it did all of the above. Which was kind of the point. Wakanda saved and Storm accepted again. Check and check. Again, for T'CHalla this was likely the most desireable outcome.
-
And this, my friends and brothers, is how grownups debate. Even though I disagree with XPac's conclusion, I can see why he believes it. No handwaving or excuses required. :D
-
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3717401]To me, the difference (and the reason McDuffie was a great writer, and Coates isn't) is that, despite the fact that this was an FF story (T'Challa & Storm were filling in for Reed & Sue) and the primary focus was on a guest character (Gravity), T'Challa was an active part of the story. He had agency. He even had a "feat".
His plan didn't involve him (literally) dropping to his knees while other people (Wakandan or otherwise) did all of the work. He wasn't a background character in his own title. Hell, even Storm got to go toe-to-toe with a herald of Galactus, something most folks can't do without a power-up.
The key, I think, is that it is possible to make other characters look good without making the protagonists look bad. McDuffie knew how to it, Priest & Hudlin know how to do it...
I seriously doubt Coates does….[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]I believe that Coates does know how but that wasn't his goal and The Adversary was never meant to be a threat and he really wasn't.
Coates' goal was to repair the T'Challa/Storm relationship and have Wakandans accept her again and he succeeded in that.
The Adversary was a villain that Coates could connect to Storm that he couldn't connect to be BP. He was just a means to an end.[/COLOR]
-
I think that was part of it, but I'd also argue he is a fan of Claremont's X-Men and wanted to pick a character who was once significant but had fallen into obscurity. It's the same reason he used Fenris. Keep in mind he also used a traditional Black Panther villain in Klaw and an Iron Man villain in Stane, so it wasn't all about using a Claremont character.
-
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3717465]I think that was part of it, but I'd also argue he is a fan of Claremont's X-Men and wanted to pick a character who was once significant but had fallen into obscurity. It's the same reason he used Fenris. Keep in mind he also used a traditional Black Panther villain in Klaw and an Iron Man villain in Stane, so it wasn't all about using a Claremont character.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]But it was a character connected to Storm which made was why he was brought in. It mattered to this particular story for that reason. It was Coates way of repairing the relationship. We wouldn't have Storm being so vital to the story or maybe becoming a goddess if it were Proteus or the Brood.
Not saying that she couldn't or wouldn't be an important character but the story was really meant to fix a damaged relationship.[/COLOR]
-
[video=youtube;PwPwJFIwD80]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwPwJFIwD80[/video]
-
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3717401]To me, the difference (and the reason McDuffie was a great writer, and Coates isn't) is that, despite the fact that this was an FF story (T'Challa & Storm were filling in for Reed & Sue) and the primary focus was on a guest character (Gravity), T'Challa was an active part of the story. He had agency. He even had a "feat".
His plan didn't involve him (literally) dropping to his knees while other people (Wakandan or otherwise) did all of the work. He wasn't a background character in his own title. Hell, even Storm got to go toe-to-toe with a herald of Galactus, something most folks can't do without a power-up.
The key, I think, is that it is possible to make other characters look good without making the protagonists look bad. McDuffie knew how to it, Priest & Hudlin know how to do it...
I seriously doubt Coates does….[/QUOTE]
He doesnt get that aspect. Or doesnt care.
I think it is a little of the fact tchalla doesnt interest him and is little that he isnt the best comic writer skill wise.
Like, im still trying to figure out why he felt the need to have thunderball around.
-
I think it's simpler. I think he just doesn't like men.
-
[QUOTE=Cville;3717503]I think it's simpler. I think he just doesn't like men.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]I think it's a matter of him over-correcting an issue that he sees.
He wants to empower women which is great and nothing wrong with that. Needs to be done.
But he's doing it at the expense of male characters and Black Panther in particular which shows how unskilled his comic writing is. Every male was painted with the same brush.
He victimized characters in a comic series where there were lots of strong female characters
He has no sense of how to balance things to appeal to the various groups so he chose one over the other.
That's what X-Writers do.
[/COLOR]
-
Is Shuri a Disney princess now? or is she a Duchess?
-
[QUOTE=Jabare;3717518]Is Shuri a Disney princess now? or is she a Duchess?[/QUOTE]
I would doubt Duchess, as I would think she doesn't have any land she oversees.
-
[QUOTE=XPac;3717409]My point of contention is that T'Challa really didn't look bad there. He came up with a plan to defeat Adversary, executed it, and won. T'Challa and Shuri do fight Adversary to buy Storm time, so it's not like he was just sitting around doing nothing. But yes, it was a case where the heavy lifting wasn't necessarily done by him. Not unlike what we saw in FF and Ultimates against Galactus. But he came up with the plan and made it happen. Without T'Challa they could not have beaten the adversary because he came up with the game plan for doing it. So I don't see it as him looking bad there at all. Agree to disagree I guess.[/QUOTE]
[B]The big difference is how said plan is executed. In the FF run. He has everyone but him time while he activates the Galactus contingency plan. He flies back to Wakanda and has everything prepared and ready (this is also another great thing about his contingency plan because he initiates it without having all the ideal components in place yet it still works without it.
He takes the frogs and warps back to the fight, drains SS power, and this is a FF book not BP's so he gives the tech to johnny instead while he knocks the hell out of surfer. T'Challa is actively doing things.
In Ultimates he warps through deep space light years away (a feat in itself) and appears in front of Galactus and he is impressed he got into his ship. He outsmarted Galactus and uses his own to transform Galactus into the lift bringer.
Against adversary he shoots him with some bullets, gets blown out of a plane and has his entire nation as well as himself bendnand pray to storm. Not the same thing.
But anyways this is the last I'm saying about it. This whole debate has been two people trying their best to downplay Tchalla and Mephistos capabilities to try and reason why adversary is a legit threat that on panel showings state otherwise while everyone drops knowledge and shows how and why Tchalla beats adversary without needing to pray to a fake god [/B]
-
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3717625][B]The big difference is how said plan is executed. In the FF run. He has everyone but him time while he activates the Galactus contingency plan. He flies back to Wakanda and has everything prepared and ready (this is also another great thing about his contingency plan because he initiates it without having all the ideal components in place yet it still works without it.
He takes the frogs and warps back to the fight, drains SS power, and this is a FF book not BP's so he gives the tech to johnny instead while he knocks the hell out of surfer. T'Challa is actively doing things.
In Ultimates he warps through deep space light years away (a feat in itself) and appears in front of Galactus and he is impressed he got into his ship. He outsmarted Galactus and uses his own to transform Galactus into the lift bringer.
Against adversary he shoots him with some bullets, gets blown out of a plane and has his entire nation as well as himself bendnand pray to storm. Not the same thing.
But anyways this is the last I'm saying about it. This whole debate has been two people trying their best to downplay Tchalla and Mephistos capabilities to try and reason why adversary is a legit threat that on panel showings state otherwise while everyone drops knowledge and shows how and why Tchalla beats adversary without needing to pray to a fake god [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not trying to downplay T'Calla in the least. In fact by downplaying the Adversary, you're down playing him by minimizing his accomplishment.
He orchestrated the defeat of a powerful opponent while repairing the relationship between Storm and Wakanda. I think T'CHALLA did a good job. It's the people saying otherwise who are downplaying him.
-
I like the way that M'Baku and Nakia looked in the mose recent issue. I look forward to seeing N'Jadaka as well.
BP being in the Avengers as well will be interesting. I always like seeing him and Captain America on the same team. I also want to see him interact with with Robbie as well.