[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3740620]He's male? After all "No One Man", right? "One Woman", OTOH, is perfectly acceptable....[/QUOTE]
Let's see if Coates is inclined to pull that "no one man" crap in Captain America's solo.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3740620]He's male? After all "No One Man", right? "One Woman", OTOH, is perfectly acceptable....[/QUOTE]
Let's see if Coates is inclined to pull that "no one man" crap in Captain America's solo.
You know... I wouldn't have a problem with "Goddess Blue" if it wasn't for the fact that this run has systematically stripped T'Challa of almost every characteristic that differentiates him from other heroes.
King of Wakanda? Nope. Monarchs are bad, don't you know?
King of the Dead? Nah... he needed Manifold's help to summon the army of ghosts to battle, and Shuri has his zombie control powers now.
Master strategist? Not really. His go-to plan seems to be "Get someone else, often an American, to save the day."
Master inventor? Nope. Despite having him claim to want to spend more time in the lab, most situations have been resolved by magic, not science.
Master martial artist? Barely noticed. Almost every fight gets resolved due to the "farce push" or his "deus ex hasta".
And in the latest arc, he gets his memories taken away...
But hey! Storm got a power-up, that nobody else is using! Yay?
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3740816]You know... I wouldn't have a problem with "Goddess Blue" if it wasn't for the fact that this run has systematically stripped T'Challa of almost every characteristic that differentiates him from other heroes.
King of Wakanda? Nope. Monarchs are bad, don't you know?
King of the Dead? Nah... he needed Manifold's help to summon the army of ghosts to battle, and Shuri has his zombie control powers now.
Master strategist? Not really. His go-to plan seems to be "Get someone else, often an American, to save the day."
Master inventor? Nope. Despite having him claim to want to spend more time in the lab, most situations have been resolved by magic, not science.
Master martial artist? Barely noticed. Almost every fight gets resolved due to the "farce push" or his "deus ex hasta".
And in the latest arc, he gets his memories taken away...
But hey! Storm got a power-up, that nobody else is using! Yay?[/QUOTE]
We're still seeing a lot of those elements though.
He's still a monarch. And he's still a strategist... a strategy doesn't stop being a strategy simply because you're getting help. Frankly I'd argue getting help rather than doing things yourself normally is good strategy. If that strategy happens to also have the added effect of getting your girlfriend in good graces with the Wakandan people, all the better.
He didn't use science to beat Adversary, but he did use science to beat Klaw. So he used both, which fits the character.
I'll agree King of the Dead isn't used much... though frankly it was NEVER used much. And I will agree that force push does somewhat neuter the martial arts aspects of the character... it's frankly the reason I have a problem with it. Tech replacing skill. With the force push, you don't need to block or dodge most opponents. It almost makes more sense to take a hit against lower end threats at least. I'd rather that ability not be a part of standard gear. But it's sort of in the movies now, so I think that ship has sailed.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3740790]Avengers continues to be a rather slow burn. It is weird the team came together and then Aaron split them apart immediately.
Also weird Aaron is using some of Ewings stuff from the bad Royal's book (progenitors). I'll be curious to know if that means Aaron also read the Ultimates or not.
T'challa is coming off as the "adult" in the room... with Aaron using his weird Strange characterization again and with Carol and Tony yelling at each other constantly. Also helps that Stevey is out of the picture at the moment.
T'challa pairing off with Carol is groan inducing but I guess it makes sense based on their recent history.[/QUOTE]
It is starting to feel like the second half of Ultimates. Think I'll drop it and pick up the 1millon BC panther issue when it comes out since it looks like they'll be giving each a spotlight issue.
[QUOTE=XPac;3739983]Sure they are talking up their god hood.... but that doesn't mean the other Avengers necessarily treat them any differently than anyone else simply because they are gods. They're respected teammates certainly... but they would get the same respect if they weren't gods. To most Avengers, it frankly doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]
Storm's stint on Avengers saw her on the floor foaming at the mouth, getting clocked upside the head and knocked out by Valkyrie, and bailing on the team after being a member for like a week.
I have a hard time believing anyone would see her as a god compared to those Average Joe's you speak of.
[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3740888]Storm's stint on Avengers saw her on the floor foaming at the mouth, getting clocked upside the head and knocked out by Valkyrie, and bailing on the team after being a member for like a week.
I have a hard time believing anyone would see her as a god compared to those Average Joe's you speak of.[/QUOTE]
Again, most super heroes probably don't see her as a god. To the X-Men and Avengers, she's just Storm (though I would argue Storm is actually very respected as a hero). That's sort of my point... to super heroes being a god often isn't that big a deal. They're just really powerful super heroes (or super villains).
Course, it's a different matter for non super heroes. The average MU citizen aren't having drinks with gods at the end of the day like the Avengers or X-Men might. THey just see these beings of vast power saving their butts. So Wakandans, who are used to worshiping pantheon gods anyways, probably have a much easier time seeing Storm as a god than the X-Men or Avengers. When gods are your co-workers that you hang around with, I think it just brings them down to earth too much to really treat them as gods.
[QUOTE=Cville;3740883]It is starting to feel like the second half of Ultimates. Think I'll drop it and pick up the 1millon BC panther issue when it comes out since it looks like they'll be giving each a spotlight issue.[/QUOTE]
Really, you can argue Ultimates is essentially the Avengers without the A list characters. Put A list characters like Cap, Iron Man and Thor in the Ultimates and it becomes the main Avengers team.
Minus the non-violent aspects I guess. Clearly this team will solve things violently.
The non violence thing was just a thing said and actually shown on panel.
They immediately were smashing up goons to get the stuff they needed to fix Galactus.
THe only thing this group didn't punch were things that were simply too big to punch. And even then, T'challa pwoered up to punch them anyway
[QUOTE=XPac;3740903]Again, most super heroes probably don't see her as a god. To the X-Men and Avengers, she's just Storm (though I would argue Storm is actually very respected as a hero). That's sort of my point... to super heroes being a god often isn't that big a deal. They're just really powerful super heroes (or super villains).
Course, it's a different matter for non super heroes. The average MU citizen aren't having drinks with gods at the end of the day like the Avengers or X-Men might. THey just see these beings of vast power saving their butts. So Wakandans, who are used to worshiping pantheon gods anyways, probably have a much easier time seeing Storm as a god than the X-Men or Avengers. When gods are your co-workers that you hang around with, I think it just brings them down to earth too much to really treat them as gods.[/QUOTE]
It's not a big deal to them because they are not their God. If Jesus walked up to Cap, I bet those interactions would go differently.
Which is what makes what Coates did insulting. Making Wakandan faith pourous. They can respect Storm, Monica, Thor, and Herc, but for BP to hand over their faith is over the line.
[QUOTE=XPac;3740905]Really, you can argue Ultimates is essentially the Avengers without the A list characters. Put A list characters like Cap, Iron Man and Thor in the Ultimates and it becomes the main Avengers team.
Minus the non-violent aspects I guess. Clearly this team will solve things violently.[/QUOTE]
I mean it's boring like the second half. Going high concept cosmic.
[QUOTE=Cville;3740922]I mean it's boring like the second half. Going high concept cosmic.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it is quite high concept though. Celestials are pretty well known and always do the same thing (destroy). And Loki is Loki. Likely eventually get some sort of twist from him at the end where we find out what he is really doing.
[QUOTE=Cville;3740915]It's not a big deal to them because they are not their God. If Jesus walked up to Cap, I bet those interactions would go differently.
Which is what makes what Coates did insulting. Making Wakandan faith pourous. They can respect Storm, Monica, Thor, and Herc, but for BP to hand over their faith is over the line.[/QUOTE]
Bast is a part of a pantheon of gods, so belief in more than one is an aspect of it. Unlike judeo Christian beliefs, which cite there being only one true god. So they can theoretically believe in Storm and Bast and multiple other gods.
And because in the MU gods potentially are at least potentially active participants on their worshippers lives, there's a functional aspect of it too. If Storm is a goddess that out there saving their butts, and worshipping her will increase their odds of doing just that, it almost makes sense to do it. Your other god has been AWOL since prior to AvX, but this one is here and she needs their support. From a purely practical perspective, it would be almost stupid not to help her try and help them.
[QUOTE=XPac;3740945]Bast is a part of a pantheon of gods, so belief in more than one is an aspect of it. Unlike judeo Christian beliefs, which cite there being only one true god. So they can theoretically believe in Storm and Bast and multiple other gods.
And because in the MU gods potentially are at least potentially active participants on their worshippers lives, there's a functional aspect of it too. If Storm is a goddess that out there saving their butts, and worshipping her will increase their odds of doing just that, it almost makes sense to do it. Your other god has been AWOL since prior to AvX, but this one is here and she needs their support. From a purely practical perspective, it would be almost stupid not to help her try and help them.[/QUOTE]
By that logic Norse religion should be primarily religion in Marvels N.Y. as Thor saves their butts frequently.
[QUOTE=Cville;3740957]By that logic Norse religion should be primarily religion in Marvels N.Y. as Thor saves their butts frequently.[/QUOTE]
New York (and the States in general) is different. Most people don't believe in pantheon gods. Even Iron Man at times questioned whether or not Thor was an actual god. So New Yorkers, he's just a super hero. And if you're part of the judeo Christian belief (which is the predominant religionious belif in the States for those who are religious), you're flat out not supposed to believe in other gods.
Wakandans believe in Pantheon gods, so multiple gods existing is sort of built in. It's just a matter of picking one to worship. And right now, Storm looks like a pretty good option. They were calling her a goddess before Coates, so there's a precident to it.
It is a bunch of crap though. It would create a 100% crisis of faith believing in a human like Storm, who has shown to never really help Wakanda in the past.
Like T'challa narrates in the beginning... the Orisha were there for numerous conflicts, a lot of them recent. Storm has only been around for SWAD (where she was secondary to T'challa) and then the recent story.
She has attacked Wakanda almost as many times as she's protected it (AvX).
And what happens when they see their God on the ground, knocked out on Youtube on her X-Men adventures? What happens when the tabloids talk about her numerous recent boyfriends?
Imagine waking up, checking out your daily reddit forums, and see your god knocked the F out by some X-men foe. What then? What happens when your all powerful god, protector of Wakanda, gets f'd up by some mutant with powers? How safe would you feel? How protected would you feel? How could you have ANY faith at all after that?
Of course, being "realistic" only matters to people when it is propping up Storm. but when you mentioned the negative aspects of having a HUMAN being worshipped as a god... it goes silent. Storm has very human choices and mistakes. It is a dangerous game to have you "god" be a living, breathing, walking god.
Is there any chance Coates examines that part of it? Of course not, because it wouldn't prop Blue up.