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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2667403]Bull. There's NOTHING in how Manifold opened the door to the Land Of Exposition™, allowing Shuri to return, that indicates ANY ability of T'Challa's to summon the spirits of the dead. You can ASSUME it's due to his KotD or "soul tracking" powers, but that is NOT foreshadowing.
That's hindsight.[/QUOTE]
It's astounding to me to see the amount of mental gymnastics some are putting into consigning Coates derivative nonsense. Lol!
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2667425][B]The thing with Changa was foreshadowed an issue before. Not ages. We the reader's were saying he will likely rally then Because of how Coates was chumping Tchalla. And with Shuri her being with "Mother" in no way shape or form indicated that they were connected with KotD ancestors considering they were previous Black Panthers and Shuri was talking with Griot's which were seperate.
Plus the previous Panthers disowned Tchalla so him summoning them is complete pis and more of Coates just throwing whatever in his story with no regard to continuity. This story dragged on and wasted issues doing nothing. If Coates wanted to use the KotD power he should of shown T'Challa communing with them. Basically Coates was pulling a RotK without showing how Aragorn (Tchalla) first convinced the ghost army to join the cause, making for a very forced and frankly stupid plot device and "reuniting the fallen friends and family".
It rang as underserved, just Like the whole MA winning and changing the government, Undeserving but pis demands everything and everyone (no matter how out of character they appear) much adhere to this change no matter how damaging.[/B][/QUOTE]
You're absolutely right my brother.
Coates wack ass BP rings totally hollow in every conceivable manner.
For those who like it, fair do's to you, but for those of us who don't, Coates departure can't come soon enough.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2667450]I think Changa mire was foreshadowed prior to T'Challa going to see him. The People clearly were using his teaching as the basis for their beliefs but he clearly was not on the same page as they were. He thus became the perfect weapon against them. It's the equilalent of Muhammad speaking out against rascal Islam.[/QUOTE]
[B] Tchalla handling his own business and addressing the people (remember how the elder woman said in issue 3 that they used to pray to Bast and her Champion would answer the call?) And saying "Hey I hear you guys, we are listening, we are here and we will get through this together" but instead we had some changa speech and Even I. That speech he throws shade at T'Challa. So no he wasn't the perfect weapon to use. The head of state addressing the issue at hand is. Unless the goal is to lowkey shade throw then I that case yes perfect weapon.[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2667508][B] Tchalla handling his own business and addressing the people (remember how the elder woman said in issue 3 that they used to pray to Bast and her Champion would answer the call?) And saying "Hey I hear you guys, we are listening, we are here and we will get through this together" but instead we had some changa speech and Even I. That speech he throws shade at T'Challa. So no he wasn't the perfect weapon to use. The head of state addressing the issue at hand is. Unless the goal is to lowkey shade throw then I that case yes perfect weapon.[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't think you're appreciating the brilliance of T'Challa move to use Changamire against the People. Again, their entire movement is based on Changamires teachings. It'seems the equivalent of Muhammad speaking out against radical Islam.
In simple terms they're essentially Changs followers, while T'Challa is the one they are angry with and want to overthrow. Which one are they more likely to listen to?
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[QUOTE=XPac;2667531]I don't think you're appreciating the brilliance of T'Challa move to use Changamire against the People. Again, their entire movement is based on Changamires teachings. It'seems the equivalent of Muhammad speaking out against radical Islam.
In simple terms they're essentially Changs followers, while T'Challa is the one they are angry with and want to overthrow. Which one are they more likely to listen to?[/QUOTE]
Funny, I thought they were TETU's followers, who had their "hearts revealed" by Zenzi.
Except for the ones who were in it for the rape, of course.
And the ones surgically transformed into suicide bombers.
And the ones who somehow could transform into ogres.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2667490]You're absolutely right my brother.
Coates wack ass BP rings totally hollow in every conceivable manner.
For those who like it, fair do's to you, but for those of us who don't, Coates departure can't come soon enough.[/QUOTE]
[B] Worse part is Coates is probably proudof his hack job to this mythos, one that could explore what could of been with a Unconquered unencumbered African nation free of western influence and standing as the beacon of light for the world and he disolves that and replaces it... Stereotypical Africa needing to be saved by Western practices...[/B]
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2667535]Funny, I thought they were TETU's followers, who had their "hearts revealed" by Zenzi.
Except for the ones who were in it for the rape, of course.
And the ones surgically transformed into suicide bombers.
And the ones who somehow could transform into ogres.[/QUOTE]
They're Tetu'a followers, but Tetu was a follower of Chang. Just like how AL Queda have leaders but they are supposedly following the teaching of Muhammad.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2667531]I don't think you're appreciating the brilliance of T'Challa move to use Changamire against the People. Again, their entire movement is based on Changamires teachings. It'seems the equivalent of Muhammad speaking out against radical Islam.
In simple terms they're essentially Changs followers, while T'Challa is the one they are angry with and want to overthrow. Which one are they more likely to listen to?[/QUOTE]
[B]No I do don't appreciate it. Because That speech went out to Tetus men, who weren't Wakandan and funny enough that Zenzi is so weak her influence could be overthrown with a *gasp* a fraking speech. Something that would of stopped this whole fraking story. No one bothered to talk to anyone. And then she amps up her power (mysteriously again pis) and then Tetus men (who never said or spouted anything about the MAs message) started screaming No One Man? Really? They weren't Chang's followers they were Tetus and they never spoke of no one man as they were Nigandan.. [/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;2667545]They're Tetu'a followers, but Tetu was a follower of Chang. Just like how AL Queda have leaders but they are supposedly following the teaching of Muhammad.[/QUOTE]
I can only assume you haven't had much experience dealing with fanatics, then, because you know what they would do in a situation like this?
They would find whatever justification for continuing to do whatever it is they were doing. Some of the classics are:
[LIST][*]"It's a trick! That's not really him!"[*]"They forced him to say that! It's not true!"[*]"He has betrayed the cause! He's as bad as they are!"[/LIST]
Any excuse, any explanation would do. History is FULL of examples like this, from ancient Judea, to revolutionary France, to the 2016 election.
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[B] Here's a question, when did Wakanda become a lace that would try and end things peacefully with a terrorist group? ESPECIALLY non Wakandan. Because I'm Pretty sure that they would crush them without mercy especially for having suicide bombers killing Wakandans, but instead they have Changa talk with terrorists and say essentially" you guys are right T'Challa is Wrong and your rebellion worked but you shouldn't of killed people and now No one man will have that much power" diminishing Tchalla and Wakanda. Coatesverse is a tragedy to the BP mythos[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2667548][B]No I do don't appreciate it. Because That speech went out to Tetus men, who weren't Wakandan and funny enough that Zenzi is so weak her influence could be overthrown with a *gasp* a fraking speech. Something that would of stopped this whole fraking story. No one bothered to talk to anyone. And then she amps up her power (mysteriously again pis) and then Tetus men (who never said or spouted anything about the MAs message) started screaming No One Man? Really? They weren't Chang's followers they were Tetus and they never spoke of no one man as they were Nigandan.. [/B][/QUOTE]
Again Tetu based his teachings on Chang, so the People effectively were followers of his beliefs.
BUT you bring up another reason why Chang doing the speech is more effective than T'Challa. Nigam dams won't necessarily give a dam what T'Challa gas to say. But a follower of Tetu, regardless of whether they are Wakandans or Nigandan, would respect Chang if they are basing their belief system around his teachings.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2667602]Again Tetu based his teachings on Chang, so the People effectively were followers of his beliefs.
BUT you bring up another reason why Chang doing the speech is more effective than T'Challa. Nigam dams won't necessarily give a dam what T'Challa gas to say. But a follower of Tetu, regardless of whether they are Wakandans or Nigandan, would respect Chang if they are basing their belief system around his teachings.[/QUOTE]
What "teachings"? What "beliefs"? Because we NEVER saw the People outside of battle.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2667561]I can only assume you haven't had much experience dealing with fanatics, then, because you know what they would do in a situation like this?
They would find whatever justification for continuing to do whatever it is they were doing. Some of the classics are:
[LIST][*]"It's a trick! That's not really him!"[*]"They forced him to say that! It's not true!"[*]"He has betrayed the cause! He's as bad as they are!"[/LIST]
Any excuse, any explanation would do. History is FULL of examples like this, from ancient Judea, to revolutionary France, to the 2016 election.[/QUOTE]
That's probably why it worked on some but not all of them. Some didn't buy it.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2667609]That's probably why it worked on some but not all of them. Some didn't buy it.[/QUOTE]
Supposition, based on a desire to justify the story. In the ACTUAL ISSUE, we didn't see them showing doubts, or contradicting the speech. We saw them shaking off the brainwashing that Zenzi supposedly wasn't doing. Again, it wasn't so much a matter of characterization but Changaroo saying "Revolt is bad, m'kay?"
For that matter, if the actions of the People were SOLELY based on their "beliefs" about Tetu's "teaching", then THEY WOULDN'T NEED ZENZI. They would be ACTUAL fanatics, who theoretically could be swayed by rhetoric. But by making them subject to her powers, Coates has muddled the story, taking a plea for reason and turning it into a magical "get out of brainwashing" card.
Now that I think about it, why is Zenzi in this story at all? What purpose does she serve that a charismatic demagogue could not accomplish, without any powers whatsoever?
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Zenzi can only amps whatever negative emotion is there. In tchallas case, it was despair over his sister (i think, been awhile ) . For the hz it was doubt inbattacking the adored ones. And we saw with akili, when there was no doubt, he was unaffected. For wakandans and nigandas, its there anger towards the crown.
Naturally, not every revolutionary has the same level of rage against the crown.
Chang was able to calm that rage enough in some that there was nothing left for zenzi to amp.
So tetu had them shot.
With the others, chang couldn't reach, the rage was still there, zenzi then amplified it farther and by comic book magic, turning them into mini hulk rage monster orcs.