[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298192]Still doesn't make much sense.[/QUOTE]
What doesn't make sense?
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[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298192]Still doesn't make much sense.[/QUOTE]
What doesn't make sense?
[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;3298097]I think what he/she means is changing the origin of Wakanda to imply ALIENS did all that instead of black folks.
While to many has racist ties as implying black people are not intelligent to do anything outside of being slaves, thugs and welfare worshipers. You know what fills every Yahoo comment section about blacks-someone posted that page long comment of blacks are stupid.
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Coates has been MORE stereotypical of Blacks/Africans than ANY non-black writer. And the biggest killing irony is that his parents were Black Panther members. You have silly people from comicvine claiming Coates is writing "black supremacy propaganda!", lol... If only they knew.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3298200]What doesn't make sense?[/QUOTE]
Aliens being the originators of the area of Wakanda and NOT actual AFRICANS. Why not another indigenous African ethnic group who worships a different god?
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298208]Aliens being the originators of the area of Wakanda and NOT actual AFRICANS. Why not another indigenous African ethnic group who worships a different god?[/QUOTE]
That's the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around. It really doesn't sit well with me that Wakandan civilization, undeniably the best on Earth, seems to have origins at least partly rooted in aliens/interdimensional beings. That makes me think of the times that people try to attribute the successes of black civilization to non-blacks, as though we're not intelligent to do great things. I would've been more comfortable with the Wakandans displacing normal Africans and then maybe along the way they got transformed into monsters or something like that. Still would've been awkward because Wakanda was always supposed to be exceptional and above conquering, but at least it wouldn't imply the achievements of the region are completely disconnected from black people. I really dislike this :mad:
[QUOTE=chief12d;3298223]That's the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around. It really doesn't sit well with me that Wakandan civilization, undeniably the best on Earth, seems to have origins at least partly rooted in aliens/interdimensional beings. That makes me think of the times that people try to attribute the successes of black civilization to non-blacks, as though we're not intelligent to do great things. I would've been more comfortable with the Wakandans displacing normal Africans and then maybe along the way they got transformed into monsters or something like that. Still would've been awkward because Wakanda was always supposed to be exceptional and above conquering, but at least it wouldn't imply the achievements of the region are completely disconnected from black people. I really dislike this :mad:[/QUOTE]
Whole thing is disgusting.
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298189]Wakandans are not an "offensive war" people. They are mainly defensive which is why their country has always remained small but yet very advanced and powerful. If they wanted become an empire they would have BEEN done it! Especially to surrounding African states. Wakanda is like the Zimbabwe Kingdom. Zimbabwe like Wakanda was RICH in resources(especially gold) and because of that they had an monopoly on gold in the Indian Ocean trade which made them very rich. Some sources estimate that they had mines in the billions and those Zimbabwean kings were some of the richest. Zimbabwe Kingdom was also very powerful and not even the powerful Swahilis on the East African coast or Arabs messed with them.
YET... They were NOT expansionist like the Zulus south of them or the Somalis/Cushites northeast of them. Wakanda shows strong elements with Great Zimbabwe. Neither were ever bothered to expand through conquering.[/QUOTE]
Certainly expanding into a galactic empire is a bit uncharacteristic for an small isolationist nation.
We'll have to see how Coates rationales the decision. On a lot of levels, them having a galactic empire relatively out of nowhere does seem like a stretch. But we'll see.
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298208]Aliens being the originators of the area of Wakanda and NOT actual AFRICANS. Why not another indigenous African ethnic group who worships a different god?[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's that much of a stretch to assume that not every inch of the African continent was inhabited by Africans. Africa is a pretty big place. And we're talking thousands of years ago.
the more cape the better. Bring it on, in a major way. Let it sway in the wind and knock down enemies of the golden kingdom.
[QUOTE=XPac;3298245]Certainly expanding into a galactic empire is a bit uncharacteristic for an small isolationist nation.
We'll have to see how Coates rationales the decision. On a lot of levels, them having a galactic empire relatively out of nowhere does seem like a stretch. But we'll see.[/QUOTE]
Because it is a stretch and it is out of character.
[QUOTE=XPac;3298249]I don't think it's that much of a stretch to assume that not every inch of the African continent was inhabited by Africans. Africa is a pretty big place. And we're talking thousands of years ago.[/QUOTE]
Well, in real life every inch of the continent was populated by Africans from hunter-gatherers in Southern and Southeast Africa. Nilo-Saharan/Cushite speakers in Northeast Africa. Early hunter-gatherers in North Africa and then Berbers. Pygmy people in Central Africa. And proto-Niger-Congo people in West Africa. And if we go back further African farmers from East Africa who spread throughout the continent(NOT to be confused with Bantu migration). MORE IMPORTANTLY Wakanda seems to be located HERE.
[url]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcrossroads/images/2/2d/Wakanda_%28Earth-7568%29Map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160828003910[/url]
If you know African anthropology you would know that region of Africa BIRTHED the earliest homo-sapian humans and even older humans. I BEEN to that part of Africa(Ethiopia) and humans have always existed there. This is basic anthropology 101. And Coates having African elements in his work should KNOW that. So where the heck did aliens come from???? Even if the ancestors of Wakandans were recent to that area. There would have been other Africans(maybe Nilotic or Cushite).
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298270]Because it is a stretch and it is out of character.
Well, in real life every inch of the continent was populated by Africans from hunter-gatherers in Southern and Southeast Africa. Nilo-Saharan/Cushite speakers in Northeast Africa. Early hunter-gatherers in North Africa and then Berbers. Pygmy people in Central Africa. And proto-Niger-Congo people in West Africa. And if we go back further African farmers from East Africa who spread throughout the continent(NOT to be confused with Bantu migration). MORE IMPORTANTLY Wakanda seems to be located HERE.
[url]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcrossroads/images/2/2d/Wakanda_%28Earth-7568%29Map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160828003910[/url]
If you know African anthropology you would know that region of Africa BIRTHED the earliest homo-sapian humans and even older humans. I BEEN to that part of Africa(Ethiopia) and humans have always existed there. This is basic anthropology 101. And Coates having African elements in his work should KNOW that. So where the heck did aliens come from???? Even if the ancestors of Wakandans were recent to that area. There would have been other Africans(maybe Nilotic or Cushite).[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree that creating a galactic empire in space does seem to be out of character... but I suppose that's the upside of a monarchy. Things can sort of change on the fly depending on the whims of the present ruler. I'll assume if T'Challa created a galactic empire, he did so for a very good reason... but we'll have to wait and see.
As far as every inch of Africa being populated by Africans thousands of years ago... I don't think it takes too much suspension of belief to buy one portion of land inhabited by monsters. If they're living there, it's a pretty descent reason for other Africans to stay clear of it. Pre-Wakandans might have simply been the first to try and co-exist with them.
[QUOTE=XPac;3298282]I don't disagree that creating a galactic empire in space does seem to be out of character... but I suppose that's the upside of a monarchy. Things can sort of change on the fly depending on the whims of the present ruler. I'll assume if T'Challa created a galactic empire, he did so for a very good reason... but we'll have to wait and see.
[B]As far as every inch of Africa being populated by Africans thousands of years ago... I don't think it takes too much suspension of belief to buy one portion of land inhabited by monsters. If they're living there, it's a pretty descent reason for other Africans to stay clear of it. Pre-Wakandans might have simply been the first to try and co-exist with them.[/B][/QUOTE]
I get what you mean but still... Why Wakanda?
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298289]I get what you mean but still... Why Wakanda?[/QUOTE]
[B] Because coates hates BP and everything his Mythos stands for. So he is trying to take them down a peg. Hence all the BS he has added since S1 and his treatment of Tchalla throughout the series and both spin offs, the most obvious being BP and crew [/B]
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298289]I get what you mean but still... Why Wakanda?[/QUOTE]
We can't say why or if the Wakandans were the first to interact with the Originators... the story doesn't tell us that much. But in the least we know why they were able to take control of the land while other Africans were not. They were able to become gods somehow and drive the originators off.
Obviously the main reason is because it's a story about Wakandans (or pre-Wakandans). If it were a story about some other group of people, it would be them interacting and ultimately driving off the Originators rather than the Wakandans. The "why" in a meta reason is simply that it's their story.
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298208]Aliens being the originators of the area of Wakanda and NOT actual AFRICANS. Why not another indigenous African ethnic group who worships a different god?[/QUOTE]
Because there's a portal where Christopher Priest established aliens were coming for millennia. I'm not saying it's wrong to disagree with the decision of there being a people before the Wakandans (or an alien people), I'm just saying I don't get why it would make no sense.
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;3298270]Because it is a stretch and it is out of character. [/quote]
FWIW, I made the same argument that it was out of character as well. Or, at least, it required special justification (which we might or might not get). Before Coates actually came up with this idea, I was yelled at by people thought it was totally something Wakanda would do. I'm curious where people are on this subject now.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3298477]Because there's a portal where Christopher Priest established aliens were coming for millennia. I'm not saying it's wrong to disagree with the decision of there being a people before the Wakandans (or an alien people), I'm just saying I don't get why it would make no sense.
FWIW, I made the same argument that it was out of character as well. Or, at least, it required special justification (which we might or might not get). Before Coates actually came up with this idea, I was yelled at by people thought it was totally something Wakanda would do. I'm curious where people are on this subject now.[/QUOTE]
Nevermind lol
I almost dread the empire now. He is going to find a way to make it a bad thing. lol