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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3615207]Lmao you know what is even more ironic? The narrative that every time a black leader stands up to help black folks in America, they get killed. Killmonger and his father were both killed (by other black men) for trying to help other black men and women that are being made victims of a world that wants nothing more than to see them exterminated. Just some food for thought.[/QUOTE]
Erik was right. Why you think so many people love him
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[QUOTE=goku200;3615625]Erik was right. Why you think so many people love him[/QUOTE]
People were sympathetic to him, there's a difference.
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Only thing killmonger was right about was how good of a move tchalla's spear to the gut ultra combo was.
Queen Nakia was right
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[QUOTE=Cville;3615293]I pulled it from reading it. You tried to equate Killmonger and his father to the people who fought against the suffering of others non violently.[/QUOTE]
Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey are non violent with people that are non violent with their people. Colonizers are violent.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3615639]Only thing killmonger was right about was how good of a move tchalla's spear to the gut ultra combo was.
Queen Nakia was right[/QUOTE]
This all day everyday and twice on Sunday.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3615633]People were sympathetic to him, there's a difference.[/QUOTE]
Nope, People are were only sympathetic to him because he was right.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3615595]Why are people so quick to jump on this post, but they ignore the one prior that gives it greater context? I've already account for his actions. We've established that he was a hypocrite, he killed the black people he said he wanted to liberate so on and so forth. I'm pretty sure in his mind, they died for the greater good. That does not address the point I'm making. He was a staple as a villain because his motives made SENSE AND THEY WERE HEARTFELT. The ends he took to achieve those goals made him a hypocrite, but that doesn't change the fact that A LOT of people connected with him on a moral level. #Killmongerwasright, remember?
We've already established this. I don't understand what you don't understand. You gotta help me out here.[/QUOTE]
Because as written, your post seems to compare Killmonger with a number of actual black activists or revolutionaries. Whether you bring up MLK, Malcolm, Paul Robeson, The Black Panther Party, Nat Turner, or the Haitian revolutionaries...none of them behaved the Erik did. They spent most of their energy taking on the actual people who were oppressing them. They all had beef with black folks who they disagreed with, but they didn't physically attack them. I'm not so sure we want Erik to be seen as a noble brother who was done in by the establishment.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3615645]Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey are non violent with people that are non violent with their people. Colonizers are violent.[/QUOTE]
Killmonger was violent to his own people.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3615625]Erik was right. Why you think so many people love him[/QUOTE]
[B] Because he was a 3 dimensional villain with actual motivation outside"I'm evil for the sake of evil" he was charismatic, and had a valid complaint. Some people can relate to his situation growing up, however Actions speak louder then words and he was a hypocrite. The people who ignore that are missing it. Plus Nakia said not first before him anyways with a better method to achieve it[/B]
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[QUOTE=ed2962;3615664]Because as written, your post seems to compare Killmonger with a number of actual black activists or revolutionaries. Whether you bring up MLK, Malcolm, Paul Robeson, The Black Panther Party, Nat Turner, or the Haitian revolutionaries...none of them behaved the Erik did. They spent most of their energy taking on the actual people who were oppressing them. They all had beef with black folks who they disagreed with, but they didn't physically attack them. I'm not so sure we want Erik to be seen as a noble brother who was done in by the establishment.[/QUOTE]
Erik is a noble brother who mind was done in by the violent Colonizers. Without the Colonizers Erik is just Batman.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3615670][B] Because he was a 3 dimensional villain with actual motivation outside"I'm evil for the sake of evil" he was charismatic, and had a valid complaint. Some people can relate to his situation growing up, however Actions speak louder then words and he was a hypocrite. The people who ignore that are missing it. Plus Nakia said not first before him anyways with a better method to achieve it[/B][/QUOTE]
All this
+ he was a bad ass
+ he moved to the #1 on many gfs/wives "allowed" list
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[QUOTE=goku200;3615674]Erik is a noble brother who mind was done in by the violent Colonizers. Without the Colonizers Erik is just Batman.[/QUOTE]
[B]Nope Erik is what Tchalla would of been had he been consumed by his rage[/B]
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[QUOTE=goku200;3615625]Erik was right. Why you think so many people love him[/QUOTE]
I've already said that.
[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3615633]People were sympathetic to him, there's a difference.[/QUOTE]
People were sympathetic because the saw the truth behind his disposition and motive. Thats different than what you're saying. Wholly different.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3615639]Only thing killmonger was right about was how good of a move tchalla's spear to the gut ultra combo was.
Queen Nakia was right[/QUOTE]
I've said this already too.
[QUOTE=goku200;3615645]Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey are non violent with people that are non violent with their people. Colonizers are violent.[/QUOTE]
Glad I'm not the only one thats up on their history.
[QUOTE=Nate Grey;3615655]This all day everyday and twice on Sunday.[/QUOTE]
I'm in agreement.
[QUOTE=goku200;3615656]Nope, People are were only sympathetic to him because he was right.[/QUOTE]
Lmao are people being this adsurd? Despite the acts he commited, how many of his famous quote rang true? The idea that he wasn't right is terribly inaccurate.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3615674]Erik is a noble brother who mind was done in by the violent Colonizers. Without the Colonizers Erik is just Batman.[/QUOTE]
Well, his dad was supposed to be in America to spy on the colonizers. Without the colonizers he would have been some kid growing up in Wakanda.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613699]Isn't the bolded part essentially what makes Wakanda so great? They are harboring the most precious resource known to the MU. Wakanda, before T'Challa took the throne was known for protecting their own and protecting their borders. Protecting their borders and hoarding the natural resource vibranium opens the door for warring with a population over resources. Is Niganda not neighboring country to Wakanda? Does part of Michael B. Killmonger's portrayal not right true partly for calling out Wakanda's knack for only protecting their own when they could have affected the globe in epic style?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613716]Then why did Nakia change T'Challa's mind then? And do you really want to send the message that Wakanda is about sending people to the stars to make life better or what have you? But you're okay with Wakanda leaving the other countries of Africa in squalor? The doesn't send another problematic message?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613768]You'd essentially be proving Killmonger's point. In the same breath that you have people equating Christopher Columbus with Wakanda, you still have people that argue Wakanda being a vehicle for anti pan-Africanism. I'm just sayin. Black folks with silver spoons and trusts funds often forget their black until the criminal justice system gets a hold of them.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613824]I know. That's why I said. That exactly the views that do it a disservice in a way. I wanna draw attention to another irony that I just noticed from your words and the logic that informs them. The way you reference Wakanda is no different than how Storm was and is represented in the X-men. The one and only "exceptional ******" trope. That good ole, boy exception to the rule. The one above the rest. And, yes, that is what made them a staple, a standout and box office smash. But do you honestly believe to yourself that Wakanda's unraveling to the would have been met with the same can reaction if it sent the message that it was completely ok with leaving other African countries in squalor? You honestly believe that? So the idea of "It takes a village..." or the Civil Rights movement and Black people moving as one is something you're ok with Wakanda abandoning?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613902]If you can't see what Wakanda represents to the world at large by the epic turnout, media storm, record shattering box office haul and the historical significance of a movie of its calibre then I'm afraid that my arguments are sorely misplaced. Ironically, again, your arguments fall dangerously in line with the attitude people have toward Storm and her representation. I know for a fact that you've witnessed discussion revolving around Storm and her wearing dreads. It would be a great shame if you didn't see the parallel between your points and the people that don't understand why it's important for her to be rendered with more ethnic styles.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613936]I'm not mixing my points, you're missing it. If you honestly believe Wakanda would have gotten the same embrace from blacks in general, without sending the message that Wakanda would then embrace them in return, I think you are categorically wrong. Yeah, blacks would have hone to see it, but you don't think they would have been turned off? The Wakanda we got from Coogler is inviting US is. The one you're proposing does not.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613993]Yes, exactly. Not doing so would have proved Killmonger right and gave him the moral high ground, despite his motives. You disagree?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3614085]That's Fair. I'm just of the mind that black folks were absolutely gonna turn out in droves to witness black history. We were going to love seeing US on the screen just the same. The movie would have undoubtedly reached the same heights. But, had T'Challa NOT made that outreach, Killmonger and his vision for Wakanda would have been a much bigger talking point. I promise you that. Pulp Fiction would have actually had a point in creating his thread.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3614954]You know, I am seriously struggling with this post and the logic that compels you and Cville to think this way. I really need to highlight a point that apparently the both of you missed. T'Challa and Wakanda DID NOT NEED TO CONDUCT SURVEYS, LISTEN TO POETRY, WATCH MUSIC VIDEOS, DOCUMENTARIES OR GET A CRASH COURSE IN THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF BLACKS IN AMERICA. [B]KILLMONGER[/B] WAS THEIR WINDOW INTO THE OUTSIDE WORLD. KILLMONGER, AND HIS FATHER were BOTH technically casualties of the systemic social injustices that plague America. T'Challa CLEARLY recognizes and calls T'Chaka on KILLMONGER being a monster of WAKANDA'S OWN MAKING. Why and how would T'Challa then need to go do research about the what really is happening to blacks around the globe? It makes no sense. Killmonger, the cousin he knew nothing of, but still recognized the truth of his words, gave him the outlook he needed to follow what Nakia was already suggesting. He needed an in your face awakening to see her way was the only true choice.
I have to bring up the fact that you AND Cville quite literally glossed over many of the African proverbs and the messages of the Civil rights movement that movie plays on. It takes a village and Black folks needing to stick together to reach their common goals. How can anyone in this thread push ideas of a still closed border Wakanda and not recognize how your views do the the REAL idea of Wakanda and what it means to those that can trace their heritage to the diaspora a clear disservice? When you know better you do better. If blacks are repeatedly denied access to the information that gives them greater insight into where they come from, you don't think it would be on Wakanda and T'Challa in particular to provide that knowledge? If you really disagree, that is your right. BUT YOU NEED TO KNOW THAT THE MAN THAT WE ALL LOVE WOULD NOT HAVE COME OFF AS THE HERO THAT HE IS. I promise you, the love the Killmonger got would have been ten fold. And Pulp Fiction would have had a point. An undeniable point. And Chadwick Bozeman would not have been the star he is. That's just my opinion.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3615081]Lololol do I really need to explain that T'Challa was NOT dealing with the same political issues in CIVIL WAR? It stands to reason that SOME people were going to gravitate to that portrayal? My main point being, fan reaction to Killmonger here in America was RIDICULOUS. T'Challa took his moral high ground away by opening the borders. And respectfully, the post below is the one you should have responded to.
You are absolutely right. The road to hell and all... Did Killmonger's father not have valid reasoning tho? His son WAS one of them. His son WAS one of the disenfranchised that America has historically vowed to neglect. Yes, he should have taken his son and gone home. Yes, he could have even gone on the mission to get the vibranium himself and not send in an outsider. Yes, he could have been honest with his brother and honorably started some out reach. That is all immaterial. The fact of the matter is both Killmonger and his father died following their agendas to stop the systematic injustices that plague black people in America and the world over. That's what endeared both of them to viewers. To dismiss this truth is disingenuous. And I'm honestly a little let down that this message was and is lost on people.
That he did.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3615207]Lmao you know what is even more ironic? The narrative that every time a black leader stands up to help black folks in America, they get killed. Killmonger and his father were both killed (by other black men) for trying to help other black men and women that are being made victims of a world that wants nothing more than to see them exterminated. Just some food for thought.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3615285]Hello? Where did you pull any of that from my message? I stated repeatedly that Killmonger's means of achieving his ends were deplorable. Did that stop him from being a complex, thought-provoking character? Isnt there a group of people that spout the #Killmongerwasright mantra? Are you purposely ignoring the things I'm saying to you?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3615431]No, you didn’t. Read it again. The bolded was a clear reference to Malcolm X.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3615619][B] What are you even getting at. Everyone here already recognized the bare bones message he was pushing (hypocritically). So what point see you trying to get at?
The killmonger was right hashtag also had other hashtags like he was the rightful king and ignored the fact that he didn't actually believe or follow the message he was spouting and simply used it as an excuse for his rage. They didn't die trying in Their fight to stop injustice, they died on their quest becoming the very things they were trying to stop [/B][/QUOTE]
These are all the points you missed. My initial point is that Wakanda would have been received differently it held up the ideas of a few in this very thread, about Wakanda NOT BEING OBLIGATED TO HELP OTHER BLACKS. I disagree with that idea. The thought is that the movie would have been receive very well because of its all black cast and everything else that made it so historical in nature. The very fundemental difference as far as I'm concerned, is that BP (T'Challa) would have been received very differently if he followed that attitude of "not obligated." It's my idea that had BP NOT followed Nakia's lead of outreach, Killmonger would have been an even bigger symbol than he already is. The #Killmongerwasright would have even more potency. I don't see how logic could inform that decision, but would you disagree?