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[QUOTE=XPac;3690432]Wakanda beats Adversary, so it's clear they can. Adversary does end up losing.
Obviously some take issue with T'Challa getting help from his girlfriend to do it, but it made enough sense to me.[/QUOTE]
Wakanda can't defeat the Adversary with tech or magic, but LITERALLY worshipping an outsider counts as a win? OK...
[QUOTE=XPac;3690487]As far as weak ass villains... Adversay is a universal level threat. Considering a good half of T'Challas rogues either don't have powers or are BARELY super human, Adversay is actually a massive step up.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3690496]And I think Adversary works great personally... I hope the BP mythos can steal him from the X books (not like they would miss him). He's a godlike cosmic level threat. Having one of those in ones rogues gallery is always nice.[/QUOTE]
You keep saying this, but I repeat: The last time he showed up in comics before this, he was being fought to a standstill by BOOM-BOOM (A character who's biggest character traits are being vapid and shallow) and literally couldn't fight his way out of a metal box. And he was contained, not by ancient magic or divine intervention, but by the fact that Doctor Nemesis is a stubborn egoist.
In short, he may have been a big deal once, but as far as the X-Fandom is concerned, he's a jobber.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3690582]Wakanda can't defeat the Adversary with tech or magic, but LITERALLY worshipping an outsider counts as a win? OK...
You keep saying this, but I repeat: The last time he showed up in comics before this, he was being fought to a standstill by BOOM-BOOM (A character who's biggest character traits are being vapid and shallow) and literally couldn't fight his way out of a metal box. And he was contained, not by ancient magic or divine intervention, but by the fact that Doctor Nemesis is a stubborn egoist.
In short, he may have been a big deal once, but as far as the X-Fandom is concerned, he's a jobber.[/QUOTE]
Klaw got beat by Spider-Woman kicking him in the face last time I saw him prior to Coates... any character can have a bad day. Sucks, but it happens. Doesn't mean he can't or shouldn't be used as a credible threat.
And yes, using Storm or anything else for that matter counts as a win. This isn't pro-wrestling.., there's no DQ for outside interference. T'Challa came up with a plan to beat Adversary, and Adversary lost.
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And the time before THAT, Forge defeated the Adversary single-handedly by uniting the mystical and scientific halves of his spirit.
So, basically... your cosmic-level threat was taken out by C-listers 2 out of 3 main showings. =)
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3690611]And the time before THAT, Forge defeated the Adversary single-handedly by uniting the mystical and scientific halves of his spirit.
So, basically... your cosmic-level threat was taken out by C-listers 2 out of 3 main showings. =)[/QUOTE]
Honestely I don't have a problem with Adversary losing to Forge. He's had plenty of time to prep for dealing with this one particular villain. Againt this particular foe he's sort of a specialist.
But in the general sense yes... Adversary isn't a big name character. I just don't agree that not being an A lister doesn't mean a character can't or shouldn't be presented as a credible threat. To be blunt T'Challa's rogues gallery kinda sucks. I think Adversary is a big step up. Yes, he's a character that's arguably only been in 1 big story. That's 1 big story more than probably 80% of his rogues gallery.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3690621]Honestely I don't have a problem with Adversary losing to Forge. He's had plenty of time to prep for dealing with this one particular villain. Againt this particular foe he's sort of a specialist.[/QUOTE]
Actually, in the particular issue under discussion, (X-FACTOR 121) Forge spends half of the issue whining to the ghost of his mentor that he's too weak and can't POSSIBLY beat the Adversary. Then he does it anyway, after a boost of confidence. :D
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.....
I liked it better when i thought adversary was a world killer
Bast have mercy
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[COLOR="#000080"]Like Stane, I think The Adversary was underwritten. His reveal as the Big Boss was a letdown and he really didn't do much to impress.
Coates is not a big finisher(not much of a starter either). A lot of writers are having that problem lately.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3690551]A lot of times the title character in a book is the only one who seems to have a functional brain.
I recall when Morlun attacked Wakanda, missiles didn't work but Zuri and W'Kabi decided to try their luck with wooden spears. And these were 2 of T'CHalla most trusted right hand men. T'CHalla is dead for like 5 seconds, and these guys are reduced to this. Go figure.[/QUOTE]
[B] Again this is the first in only time in his publication history that the Wakandan government has been so inept. So "A lot of times the title character in a book is the only one who seems to have a functional brain" means nothing when this has never been the case for Wakanda.
Plus with morlun, they were trying to buy time because he was Right there in the throne room. They knew they weren't going to stop him, this wasn't a "hey advanced Wakandan Tech isn't working but a good ole fashion poke should do the trick" it was " Hey morlun is coming right up on Tchallas room, and in this critical time every second counts, if we are going to die, might as well be in service of our King"
That's the difference between that situation and Wakanda literally failing to pieces where local law enforcement needs direction from T'Challa on basically how to do everything but walk and breathe[/B]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3690649][COLOR="#000080"]Like Stane, I think The Adversary was underwritten. His reveal as the Big Boss was a letdown and he really didn't do much to impress.
Coates is not a big finisher(not much of a starter either). A lot of writers are having that problem lately.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
His big problem is that his character relied on feats (killing the X-Men sorta, that one time) and not depth/characterization
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3690671]His big problem is that his character relied on feats (killing the X-Men sorta, that one time) and not depth/characterization[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Motivation as well imo. Morlun returning would have been a better villain because he does have some history with Wakanda.[/COLOR]
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Thought here would be as good a place as any to post this, but is anybody else kind of peeved that the MCU sidelined T’Challa’s intelligence and technological ingenuity in order to build up Shuri?
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[QUOTE=KurtW95;3690676]Thought here would be as good a place as any to post this, but is anybody else kind of peeved that the MCU sidelined T’Challa intelligence and ingenuity in order to build up Shuri?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]That discussion has already been held in this thread awhile back.
Some people didn't like, others had no problem.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3690683][COLOR="#000080"]That discussion has already been held in this thread awhile back.
Some people didn't like, others had no problem.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Oh, my bad then. I didn’t look for it. The situation didn’t really occur to me until recently when I remembered just how smart T’Challa is supposed to be in the comics and the kind of stuff he’s done in other adaptions like Earth’s Mightiest Heroes.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3690589]Klaw got beat by Spider-Woman kicking him in the face last time I saw him prior to Coates... any character can have a bad day. Sucks, but it happens. Doesn't mean he can't or shouldn't be used as a credible threat.
And yes, using Storm or anything else for that matter counts as a win. This isn't pro-wrestling.., there's no DQ for outside interference. T'Challa came up with a plan to beat Adversary, and Adversary lost.[/QUOTE]
[B] there's a difference between trying to make a Villain more credible by having them do some good feats (Klaw) and then jobbing the most advanced nation on earth and have the title Character not only not get the big feat, but gives it to a character who's not actually from the franchise itself with a villain who was last beaten by d list heroes and trapped in a box.. [/B]
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[QUOTE=KurtW95;3690687]Oh, my bad then. I didn’t look for it. The situation didn’t really occur to me until recently when I remembered just how smart T’Challa is supposed to be in the comics and the kind of stuff he’s done in other adaptions like Earth’s Mightiest Heroes.[/QUOTE]
The way I and a lot of people looked at it was simple delegation, nothing more. If you created a popular app or even software company, you'll delegate the day to day tasks, [I]including upgrades[/I], to other people since you're busy being the CEO. The movie implied (though I suppose they should have had him outright say it a few times) that T'challa did at least build the CW suit and all Shuri did was upgrade it. Which is normal. Otherwise it would be like saying Gates is sidelined by the people under him who thought up all the upgrades to Microsoft Windows.