Everett Ross returned in Captain America: Steve Rogers #4 btw
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Everett Ross returned in Captain America: Steve Rogers #4 btw
[QUOTE=XPac;2255848]I'm actually curious how the Wakandans view Shuri.
She was technically the one ruling during all the bad stuff that happened under Hickman. Do the Wakandans blame her too, or is their ire more directed solely at T'Challa? I can sort of seeing it go either way. On one hand Shuri was technically the one in change. On the other hand, many can rightfully assume hiding the Avengers in Wakanda was more T'Challa's idea even though Shuri had to authorize it since she was right there when it was happening. And Shuri flat out didn't know about the Cabal stuff.[/QUOTE]
As far as the Wakandans know, she was KIA'ed.
Dying heroically in a war absolves a hell of a lot of blame.
Were she alive, she might be getting all the flack that T'Challa's getting now on the "Blame the person in charge" principle.
Its not like the Wakandans even knew (or were in a postion to know) about the Illuminati, Incursions or any of it.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2255862]We haven't even SEEN (on panel) how civilian Wakandan's even feel about T'challa, let alone Shuri.
But, you could argue (I go back and forth) that Shuri not listening to T'challa and counter-attacking Atlantis, thus destroying it, is what lead to Namor sending Proximus to Wakanda for the second invasion. and increased Namor's manufactured hatred of Wakanda, leading to him wanting it blown apart by the Cabal later. Of course, if Shuri had all the available information from T'challa... she might have reconsidered her attack.
But, at the same time, Shuri not mobilizing her army would have meant they may have been caught off guard by Black Dwarfs invasion, and thus not able to push it back.
[B]It can be fun to ponder what would have happened if T'challa acted like himself and bothered to inform his queen and brought her into the Illuminati with him. Oh well.[/B][/QUOTE]
Hickman needed her out the way to tell his contrived story, so he had BP act illogical by not telling her... and then, once she did find out and fully understand everything, he had her act illogical by committing "noble suicide" (or something) to again get her out the way and ensure it was just his pet characters driving the story.
Ironically Coates also needs Shuri out of the way to tell his own contrived story (or at least the first 2/3rds of it), which is why she somehow couldn't be brought back to life with everyone else with the reality gem but instead some contrived subplot of her being imprisoned by the cabal in suspended animation rather than killed.
Ideally it would be nice for them to find some consistency in incorporating the siblings as a tandem, as opposed to one of them oftn having to get killed/burnt alive/left in the dark in order for the other to cook.
Can someone remind me real quick...
Didn't Maximum bring Thanos and Proxima back rather easiily for Thane's amber semi death thing?
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2256072]As far as the Wakandans know, she was KIA'ed.
Dying heroically in a war absolves a hell of a lot of blame.
Were she alive, she might be getting all the flack that T'Challa's getting now on the "Blame the person in charge" principle.
Its not like the Wakandans even knew (or were in a postion to know) about the Illuminati, Incursions or any of it.[/QUOTE]
I see you point. Deaths typically give one a halo.
That said if I were Wakandan I might feel as though Shuri sort of have up and left the job to T'Challa, depending on how well they knew the circumstances of her death.
[QUOTE=Rumble;2256091]Hickman needed her out the way to tell his contrived story, so he had BP act illogical by not telling her... and then, once she did find out and fully understand everything, he had her act illogical by committing "noble suicide" (or something) to again get her out the way and ensure it was just his pet characters driving the story.
Ironically Coates also needs Shuri out of the way to tell his own contrived story (or at least the first 2/3rds of it), which is why she somehow couldn't be brought back to life with everyone else with the reality gem but instead some contrived subplot of her being imprisoned by the cabal in suspended animation rather than killed.
Ideally it would be nice for them to find some consistency in incorporating the siblings as a tandem, as opposed to one of them oftn having to get killed/burnt alive/left in the dark in order for the other to cook.[/QUOTE]
I think it actually made sense not to tell her.
Firstly because she likely wouldn't have been much help. And Seco ly to shield her amd Wakanda from the decisions he was making. It's JUST T'Challa waging war against these other worlds rather than Wakanda. And it's JUST T'Challa mudering billions of innocent people rather than Wakanda or his sister.
[QUOTE=XPac;2256158]I think it actually made sense not to tell her.
And Seco ly to shield her amd Wakanda from the decisions he was making. It's JUST T'Challa waging war against these other worlds rather than Wakanda. [/QUOTE]
yeah... how did that work out lol
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2256208]yeah... how did that work out lol[/QUOTE]
Not great at all. Wakanda was pretty screwed either way in hindsight.Unfortunately I think T'Challa being involved translated to T'Challa being involved whether they knew about it or not.
In the least I suppose it means Hyperion won't be dripping the golden city anytime soon.
[B]I see Shuri as being the solution. Either that or T'Challa brings her back in a (hopefully) kickassery brother-sister combo all over the people [/B]
[QUOTE=XPac;2256219]Not great at all. Wakanda was pretty screwed either way in hindsight.Unfortunately I think T'Challa being involved translated to T'Challa being involved whether they knew about it or not.
In the least I suppose it means Hyperion won't be dripping the golden city anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
he's too busy fleeing from Adam
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2256401]he's too busy fleeing from Adam[/QUOTE]
Off topic but BM was so freaking cool in that fight. He had the Squadron beat and barely threw a punch. Except Hyperion I guess.
[QUOTE=XPac;2256519]Off topic but BM was so freaking cool in that fight. He had the Squadron beat and barely threw a punch. Except Hyperion I guess.[/QUOTE]
[B]SS is way out of their weight class against the Ultimates, Adam punked them in their own book, MAC punked Carol, Monica and Adam in their book. Bot Even factoring in what T'Challa can/will do...[/B]
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2255996]Everett Ross returned in Captain America: Steve Rogers #4 btw[/QUOTE]
Awful news ( that he reappeared) hopefully he's stays far away from BP, he's one of the few things that could some how make that book worse...
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2255996]Everett Ross returned in Captain America: Steve Rogers #4 btw[/QUOTE]
Which Ross, Priest Ross or post Priest Ross?
[QUOTE=4sake Baned;2256647]Awful news ( that he reappeared) hopefully he's stays far away from BP, he's one of the few things that could some how make that book worse...[/QUOTE]
I think Ross would be a plus. The book could use a little humor in it.
[QUOTE=4sake Baned;2256647]Awful news ( that he reappeared) hopefully he's stays far away from BP, he's one of the few things that could some how make that book worse...[/QUOTE]
Ross' first appearance was in Priest Ka-Zar run.
Ross isn't really a Black Panther character, he's a Christopher Priest character. Much like Sargeant Tork who
was from Priest's Falcon mini series.
So you could expect to see Ross anywhere in Marvel where you need a Government Offical to show up and not be an antogonist like Gyrich.
[QUOTE=UltimateTy;2256660]Which Ross, Priest Ross or post Priest Ross?[/QUOTE]
I'm expecting it to be Movie Ross.
So probably neither.
It was lawyer Ross.
Basically, still flying coach, economy ross with the same humor (not as in your face as Priest) who is slightly cocky about his joba nd wants to take down Hill.
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2256700]Ross' first appearance was in Priest Ka-Zar run.
Ross isn't really a Black Panther character, he's a Christopher Priest character. Much like Sargeant Tork who
was from Priest's Falcon mini series.
So you could expect to see Ross anywhere in Marvel where you need a Government Offical to show up and not be an antogonist like Gyrich.
I'm expecting it to be Movie Ross.
So probably neither.[/QUOTE]
Movie Ross wasn't funny though. We need funny Ross.
[QUOTE=XPac;2255949]It's really hard to keep track of who is on whose side in this event. Ms. Marvel seems on Carols side here, and Steve seems to be on Carols side on the cover of this book and in Wolverine at least. But they're on Starks side by the end of CW 4.
T'Challa seems to be one of the more vocal people about questioning Carol... but his concens seem to be relatively satisfied and he stay son her side by the end of CW 4.
I guess a lot of shifting is going on in the tie in books.[/QUOTE]The books aren't in order. This issue of Captain Marvel clearly takes place before Kamala's tie-in issues and CWII 4.
I expect to see a much better fight between The Ultimates and Thanos this time around. T'Challa would have be planning for his next encounter with Thanos after what he did to Wakanda. And with BM, Chavez, Monica and Carol he has more than enough fire power. Let T'Challa plan and direct the attack and everybody else does their part.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2256885]I expect to see a much better fight between The Ultimates and Thanos this time around. T'Challa would have be planning for his next encounter with Thanos after what he did to Wakanda. And with BM, Chavez, Monica and Carol he has more than enough fire power. Let T'Challa plan and direct the attack and everybody else does their part.[/QUOTE]
[B]Well Monica is on a different dimension, ontop of her already failing the first time with her strategy i doubt she would want to make the plan. So that means T'Challa can and will take the lead and hopefully show an epic fight and take down by the Ultimates [/B]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2256885]I expect to see a much better fight between The Ultimates and Thanos this time around. T'Challa would have be planning for his next encounter with Thanos after what he did to Wakanda. And with BM, Chavez, Monica and Carol he has more than enough fire power. Let T'Challa plan and direct the attack and everybody else does their part.[/QUOTE]
I think things will go MUCH worse this time around. Last time the Ultimates had A-Force helping, and they took Thanos completely by surprise.
This time it's JUST the Ultimates (assuming Monica gets back in time). And this time Thanos is prepared for a fight.
Frankly I'm assuming Thanos gets away. Thanos has his own book coming out down the line and it's probably not going to be taking place inside of a cell. That's not to say Thanos wins the fight... they may be able to drive him away. But in the least I'm skeptical the Ultimates will be recapturing him.
[QUOTE=XPac;2256907]I think things will go MUCH worse this time around. Last time the Ultimates had A-Force helping, and they took Thanos completely by surprise.
This time it's JUST the Ultimates (assuming Monica gets back in time). And this time Thanos is prepared for a fight.
Frankly I'm assuming Thanos gets away. Thanos has his own book coming out down the line and it's probably not going to be taking place inside of a cell. That's not to say Thanos wins the fight... they may be able to drive him away. But in the least I'm skeptical the Ultimates will be recapturing him.[/QUOTE]
Whose strategy did they use to fight Thanos? I don't think this fight will go worse because I think T'Challa will choreograph this fight. Plus you have an x-factor in Ani-Man. This will be a much harder fight for Thanos than expected and he will take some serious lumps.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2256957]Whose strategy did they use to fight Thanos? I don't think this fight will go worse because I think T'Challa will choreograph this fight. Plus you have an x-factor in Ani-Man. This will be a much harder fight for Thanos than expected and he will take some serious lumps.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Anti-Man will likely swing the fight one way or the other. If he sides with Thanos, it's essentially an impossible fight to win. If he sides against Thanos, then Thanos will likely have to get the heck out of dodge.
Either way though, I'm thinking Thanos escapes.
I think its being set up for antiman to turn on Thanos
Tgey alreasy established he has no upper limit on his power
He will drive Thanos off, Ultimates will listen to him about someone chaining eternity, leading to them heading back to space
Oh btw... werent those wakandan red shirts who antiman killed on accident lol. Poor tchalla
I just got done reading the latest issue of Captain Marvel.
The real T'Challa that most of us know and love, was on full display.
Pity he's yet to show up in his own solo book.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2256988]I think its being set up for antiman to turn on Thanos
Tgey alreasy established he has no upper limit on his power
He will drive Thanos off, Ultimates will listen to him about someone chaining eternity, leading to them heading back to space
Oh btw... werent those wakandan red shirts who antiman killed on accident lol. Poor tchalla[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think that's the route they're going with him.
@X-Pac -Thanos will escape as usual. I don't see the Ultimates capturing and confining him again. But he won't leave without taking some lumps.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2257002]I just got done reading the latest issue of Captain Marvel.
The real T'Challa that most of us know and love, was on full display.
Pity he's yet to show up in his own solo book.[/QUOTE]
They should collect the recent Panther showings from other titles and make a solo out of that.
[I]"Marvel Team-Up Presents: Black Panther and ________!"[/I]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2257047]They should collect the recent Panther showings from other titles and make a solo out of that.
[I]"Marvel Team-Up Presents: Black Panther and ________!"[/I][/QUOTE]
That's a pretty good idea.
I have never in my whole comicbook reading life, ever encountered a situation where a character shines in every other book they make a guest appearance in whilst being written terribly in their own solo book.
Coates is a real class act. :smh:
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2256988]I think its being set up for antiman to turn on Thanos
Tgey alreasy established he has no upper limit on his power
He will drive Thanos off, Ultimates will listen to him about someone chaining eternity, leading to them heading back to space
Oh btw... werent those wakandan red shirts who antiman killed on accident lol. Poor tchalla[/QUOTE]
Anti-man is definately a game changer here, and this may be where we find out if T'Challa was right about killing Anti-Man or if Adam was right.
Anti-Man already busted Thanos out... and that by itself is pretty bad. If Anti-Man and Thanos end up becoming BFF's then I think even Adam will have to concede allowing his buddy to continue breathing didn't do anyone any favors. But there's also a chance Anti-Man can have a shot at redemption... though clearly he's not off to a very good start.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2257002]I just got done reading the latest issue of Captain Marvel.
The real T'Challa that most of us know and love, was on full display.
Pity he's yet to show up in his own solo book.[/QUOTE]
I actually dropped Capt Marvel but I might pick up this issue if BP is written as good as some are saying.
Yea, I read the Captain Marvel issue earlier today around lunch and had to adjust my Black Panther comic book power rankings to
1a. Captain Marvel #8
1b. Deadpool #15
3. Spidey #7
4. Ultimates #10
5.a Ultimates #2
5.b Ultimates #1
7.-19. Random ass splash pages in various books
20.a Civil War II #1-4
20.b Black Panther solo #1-5
I'm curious how much my rankings may change once that Hulk-Cho book comes out. Could go either way if they're going to make bp look good or write him a certain way to pump up Amadeus. Hopefully they'll find a good win win.
Panthertron tease is instant number 1 for me
And next three Cho solicits all mention Tchalla
Deadpool beatdown close 2nd
Lol Black Panther gets treated better outside his Solo then In It.
[QUOTE=JediKage;2257296]Lol Black Panther gets treated better outside his Solo then In It.[/QUOTE]
Between deadpool 15, cap marvel 8, and possibly hulk cho 10-12, this could be the best 5 issue stretch of BP in YEARS! lol He on fire! Hell, he even says more than one speech bubble in the ultimates now!
What a time to be a alive... outside of his solo book and anything written by Bendis of course.
[B] outside of issue 1 bendis hasn't done too bad with T'Challa he is more so just kinda there to explain stuff
Just think how things are going how cool it would be if we got some baller showings in the solo [/B]
Honestly, Bendis is Special in that I don't think he does things out of malice necessarily. There is just a whole class of character he sucks at writing.
There are characters he loves and will protect at all costs (Miles, Luke Cage), there are characters he loves but are glutton for his punishment (Hawkeye, Spider-Woman) there are characters he will always big-up every chance he gets (Steve Rogers, A'Murrica!) and then... there are characters he simply doesn't give a fukk about one way or the other (Black Panther).
I wouldn't call that malice or any other specific term (because that typically just leads to people nitpicking and splitting hairs over terminology.. and as a wise wakandan once said, "i don't care" lol) but i do see it as bendis being bendis. Nothing new under the sun.
If T'challa gets through CWII as just a "sounding board sidekick" then that is a success.
Can't be worse than falling and breaking his neck or fighting a sentinel (huh) with billy clubs (huh) in hells kitchen and being surprised at Captain America
What scares me ATM is that Storm and T'challa are near each other again in that event (same side, same fight ATM) and I don't know if Bendis can pass out that opportunity to hamfist some terrible bendis speak between the two
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2257912]If T'challa gets through CWII as just a "sounding board sidekick" then that is a success.
Can't be worse than falling and breaking his neck or fighting a sentinel (huh) with billy clubs (huh) in hells kitchen and being surprised at Captain America
What scares me ATM is that Storm and T'challa are near each other again in that event (same side, same fight ATM) and I don't know if Bendis can pass out that opportunity to hamfist some terrible bendis speak between the two[/QUOTE]
Storm: Wow, T'Challa...lately you've really been sucking at being leader.
BP: I suck?
Storm: Yes, you.
BP: At being leader?
Storm: Yes, at leading and inspiring people...
BP: So what you're saying is that I suck at being a leader...
Storm: Like a Hoover!
BP: Hmm. I think we should sneak off somewhere a shag.