I feel sorry for T'challa right now.
Printable View
I feel sorry for T'challa right now.
[QUOTE=DebkoX;370354]I feel sorry for T'challa right now.[/QUOTE]
This is probably part of the point. It's "Marvel style" to the fullest. A hero is only great in how they are written to persevere the face of a crisis and also still maintain their honor. It seems like part of it is to drag out feelings like this for the character, then have it help create new tales. T'challa should struggle with crossing the line and mercy moving forward.
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;370345]T'challa beat Swan, he can beat Namor and I'm sure he could also take on both Proxima and Corvus. Same with Black Bolt. The Hulk lost, but that doesn't mean he would lose again. Captain Britain can also take on most. Maximus TP will not work on T'challa.
Thanos is the real problem. They have no answer. Sun God could have been the answer. If that explosion was anything like Dark Knight returns, with Superman sucking up energy. He might not have perished.[/QUOTE]
They seemed to struggle a good amount just with Terrax earlier though...
Proxy and Corvus are beasts.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;370693]They seemed to struggle a good amount just with Terrax earlier though...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but you can't base anything off one fight, Right? You can lose on any day and also beat someone on any day. You can defeat someone who is stronger. It happens, things like environment and other circumstances often get ignored. Rumbles logic will not apply here. So while I agree that they struggled, that doesn't mean they will the next time.
Though, the Cabal are vastly more powerful to me. I have have been saying that for a while. Like the NA just look weak in comparison. They need to get rid of Beast. Add Hyperion, Val, Blue Marvel and Future Franklin or something. Even Odinson Thor, but the current roster is weak.
[QUOTE=Zuri;370264]Is that why all the Black Panthers from the beginning of time disowned him? the lives of his sister and step mother not to mention the lives of his whole extended family were going to end if he didn't activate that device and turned away from that and cried.
It was not a bad comic or a badly written comic but the story ended up being far more powerful than Hickman probably intended. It will probably take a while for T'challa to move on from this as a character.[/QUOTE]
I hope he never does.
The fact all the other kings disowned him is to their shame, not his. They flat out say that every other human being should be sacrificed if it means saving their country.
Everybody on the other Earth also had loved ones. T'Challa's actions might make no logical sense but logic is not what heroism is necessarily about.
Logically, the Black Panther should never put his life in jeopardy for a single ordinary person - he is too valuable. Heroes don't see the world that way. It's no logical, but do we really want a guy who calls himself the Black Panther and sees the world like Dr Doom.
[QUOTE=brettc1;370885]I hope he never does.
The fact all the other kings disowned him is to their shame, not his. They flat out say that every other human being should be sacrificed if it means saving their country.
Everybody on the other Earth also had loved ones. T'Challa's actions might make no logical sense but logic is not what heroism is necessarily about.
Logically, the Black Panther should never put his life in jeopardy for a single ordinary person - he is too valuable. Heroes don't see the world that way. It's no logical, but do we really want a guy who calls himself the Black Panther and sees the world like Dr Doom.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, his struggle is not becoming Doom. If he crosses that line. At the end of the day, the stuff that might "seem cool" and tough really isn't.
This has been an interesting debate. It seems that Hickman is doing a number of things with T'Challa. First of all Hickman continues to decontruct T'Challa with his involvment with the illuminati. T'Challa's decisions have cost him his contry, his family and now his ancestors. Hickman continues to strip more and more from him.
In those posted pages, Hickman also displayed something else. He showed what T'Challa was first and foremost in those pages: A Hero. All of the other heroes outright refused to pull the trigger. T'Challa has always been defined as a King first and then a hero. He was a man that would make Kingly decisions that would go directly against that a "super hero" would make. T'Challa believed he could pull the trigger. He did so on a dead planet with regret. But to kill a planet full of life, he and all the other heroes said, "No." Namor is not a classic hero. In fact he has been a villain so he was able to pull the trigger. Hickman said in those pages that now T'Challa is a hero.
Now the question is since Hickman has been decontructing T'Challa and some of the other illuminati, how will he reconstuct T'Challa? (Even though I still do no see any major sacrifice Reed, Tony, or Hank have made thus far. But they are also characters featured in other books.)
[QUOTE=taozen;371047]This has been an interesting debate. It seems that Hickman is doing a number of things with T'Challa. First of all Hickman continues to decontruct T'Challa with his involvment with the illuminati. T'Challa's decisions have cost him his contry, his family and now his ancestors. Hickman continues to strip more and more from him.
In those posted pages, Hickman also displayed something else. He showed what T'Challa was first and foremost in those pages: A Hero. All of the other heroes outright refused to pull the trigger. T'Challa has always been defined as a King first and then a hero. He was a man that would make Kingly decisions that would go directly against that a "super hero" would make. T'Challa believed he could pull the trigger. He did so on a dead planet with regret. But to kill a planet full of life, he and all the other heroes said, "No." Namor is not a classic hero. In fact he has been a villain so he was able to pull the trigger. Hickman said in those pages that now T'Challa is a hero.
Now the question is since Hickman has been decontructing T'Challa and some of the other illuminati, how will he reconstuct T'Challa? (Even though I still do no see any major sacrifice Reed, Tony, or Hank have made thus far. But they are also characters featured in other books.)[/QUOTE]
Excellent summation. I think that T'challa finds a way to be the "no-win scenario". If there is any one who is a lateral thinker--a original thinker, it's T'challa. Reed is going to lose his intellect, Tony is going to become Iron-Jerk. I think it's all pointing to T'challa. This feat would be pretty big. Otherwise it will fall flat.
I would also like to see T'challa struggle with the whole mercy thing. Will he cross that line? He's going to flip once he find out what Namor did and remember his father (who he looks up to more then anything) words haunt him.
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;369903]Exactly, in FF 607 she talks about Salvation. Killing billions of innocent people would not bring that. Different characters need different things. T'challa pulling the trigger would have been the wrong move. While it might be "cool" for Namor to become a mass murderer cabal member blowing up planets and killing billions--and fans might accept it as awesome. We all know that is not the case for Panther. For me, I would not want to see him doing that.
It looked like he threw that trigger at Namor anyway. lmao.[/QUOTE]
Killing billions of people is not awesome. I dont want T'challa tagged as the superhero who killed billions of people. it doesnt sound heroic at all, but a killer, a mass murderer.
[QUOTE=DebkoX;370354]I feel sorry for T'challa right now.[/QUOTE]
Why do you feel sorry for him?
[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;371117]Killing billions of people is not awesome. I dont want T'challa tagged as the superhero who killed billions of people. it doesnt sound heroic at all, but a killer, a mass murderer.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that Namor is a mass muderer? :confused:
[QUOTE=brettc1;370885]I hope he never does.[/QUOTE]
Yes, we could all do with more scenes of T'Challa, the crying King of the Dead.
[QUOTE=brettc1;370885]The fact all the other kings disowned him is to their shame, not his. They flat out say that every other human being should be sacrificed if it means saving their country.[/QUOTE]
If the former Kings of Wakanda had been as indecisive and wishy washy as T'Challa has been post Doomwar, he wouldn't have had a kingdom to inherit in the first place and as far as "every other human being sacrificed as long as Wakanda prevailed, isn't that Namor did in the first instance by aiming Proxima Midnight and Thanos's entire forces straight at Wakanda and now in the second instance by annihilating the Great Society's home planet?
Wakanda's previous Kings did their duty with diligence which is more than can be said for T'Challa who in recent times abandoned his people to go "find himself" in Matt Murdoch's Hell's Kitchen, given succour to the Avengers during AvX which led to this....
[IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/35lhtdy.jpg[/IMG]
before moving on to turn the Necropolis into a virtual menagerie of mayhem......
[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/14nicf8.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=brettc1;370885]Everybody on the other Earth also had loved ones. T'Challa's actions might make no logical sense but logic is not what heroism is necessarily about.[/QUOTE]
T'Challa written in character would not have jeapordised his people in the first place by keeping the threat of the Incursions from his sister in the first place and this for me, is where all this T'Challa is heroically stoic and human stuff falls apart at the seams for me.
Black Bolt brought Maximus into the Illuminati equation and Bruce Banner has now been inducted to the same august body so as far as I'm concerned there's no acceptable reason for Shuri to be kept in the dark as to what's happening underneath her very nose.
It has not yet been revealed whether T'Challa has actually alerted the parents of the three young Wakandan's slaughtered by Black Swan's hench men as to their childrens deaths so to be quite frank, I don't see T'Challa as being particularly heroic at this juncture.
[QUOTE=brettc1;370885]Logically, the Black Panther should never put his life in jeopardy for a single ordinary person - he is too valuable. [/QUOTE]
It's a good thing that at least one Black Panther has no problem putting her life on the line for her people (ordinary or otherwise)
[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/10shxsn.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=brettc1;370885]Heroes don't see the world that way. It's no logical, but do we really want a guy who calls himself the Black Panther and sees the world like Dr Doom.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that Namor see's the world the same way Doom does?
From the onset, it has been established that Tchalla is going down a road that he doesn't want to. It's not a matter of trust, it's an act of love that he doesn't want Shuri losing her soul in this endeavor.
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;371299]From the onset, it has been established that Tchalla is going down a road that he doesn't want to. It's not a matter of trust, it's an act of love that he doesn't want Shuri losing her soul in this endeavor.[/QUOTE]
What difference will safeguarding Shuri's soul do if T'Challa's folly in having all of these monsters on Wakandan soil.....
[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/29cordg.jpg[/IMG]
leads to her body being shattered and even more Wakandan lives lost?
[IMG]http://i43.tinypic.com/scu99s.jpg[/IMG]
I think not indeed.