[QUOTE=XPac;3807726]Off the top of my head, Gruenwalds Squadron Supreme earth.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Alternate reality. Not in our universe.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3807726]Off the top of my head, Gruenwalds Squadron Supreme earth.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Alternate reality. Not in our universe.[/COLOR]
I imagine a lot of writers have no desire to "read up" on supporting characters to make sure they get their voices right, so they just invent new supporting characters to fill the "job" they want the characters to fill.
Like... Coates likely didn't want to bother to read up on N'gassi or Taku so he just made Hodari instead.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3807761][COLOR="#000080"]And what did T'Challa or any other Black Panther do with the Doras? They have been turned into elite bodyguards, so the wives-in-training aspect has since been long gone.
But that won't stop some people from commenting on it as if something happened.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
They were still wives in training, he just wasn't using them in that capacity. In Worlds Apart for example, while under Shadow Kings influence he talls the DOras that their wives in training status returned because Storm "betrayed" him. So that aspect of the mythos was never retconned out... it was still there. But they stopped being Brides in training when he got an actual bride, and started being brides in training again when he became a king without a bride again.
The complaint isn't necessarily that he took advantage of them. On panel nothing like that happened, apart from Malice messing with T'Challa which obviously doesn't count. I think the problem is Wakanda having such a system at all, where teenage girls are used as brides in training for political reasons, is sort of messed up. I don't think anyone should be surprised that it's something that's commented on. That's why the entire system frankly needed to end. Not just put on hold, but flat out removed. Which is what happened.
[QUOTE=Punjabi_Hitman;3806659]So Disney expanded from 28 theatres to 154 for BP this weekend. Now it is 68K from 700 million!! Man I wish they had done this before the blu ray release.
This is gonna be too close.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. Looks like Disney actually wants to hit that milestone.
[video=youtube;-ZmGpTuysKI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZmGpTuysKI[/video]
I lol'd
whoo boy, thank Bast BP came out first.
FTR, I'll be at Aquaman opening night and he is probably my favorite DC character. It is just funny
[QUOTE=XPac;3807787]They were still wives in training, he just wasn't using them in that capacity. In Worlds Apart for example, while under Shadow Kings influence he talls the DOras that their wives in training status returned because Storm "betrayed" him. So that aspect of the mythos was never retconned out... it was still there. But they stopped being Brides in training when he got an actual bride, and started being brides in training again when he became a king without a bride again.
The complaint isn't necessarily that he took advantage of them. On panel nothing like that happened, apart from Malice messing with T'Challa which obviously doesn't count. I think the problem is Wakanda having such a system at all, where teenage girls are used as brides in training for political reasons, is sort of messed up. I don't think anyone should be surprised that it's something that's commented on. That's why the entire system frankly needed to end. Not just put on hold, but flat out removed. Which is what happened.[/QUOTE]
Bruv, you're one of the only posters that keeps on bringing up this subject regardless of how many times other posters point out the fact that Hudlin completely moved away from Priest's original template.
As you yourself have stated in your post, T'challa was never shown taking advantage of the "Wives in training" aspect of the Dora Milaje tradition so why this seems to be a particular sticking point for you remains something of a mystery.
What makes this all the more galling is the fact that there is historical documented evidence of all female African Warriors who were pledged to defend their King who were also forbidden to marry so it's not as if Priest plucked the concept from out of the air.
I always find it quite astoundingly tone deaf some people choose to be when disregarding other peoples traditions and culture out of hand whilst substituting their own failed systems as something for others to aspire to.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3807921][video=youtube;-ZmGpTuysKI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZmGpTuysKI[/video]
I lol'd
whoo boy, thank Bast BP came out first.
FTR, I'll be at Aquaman opening night and he is probably my favorite DC character. It is just funny[/QUOTE]
Aquaman looks ok, If i see it, it will only be for Black Manta.
[QUOTE=XPac;3807723]You can cross W'Kabi and Zuri off that list. Which is why I think it was a mistake to kill them off. They were characters established enough in the mythos to stick around at least a little bit from writer to writer... and not every supporting character introduced in a characters mythos can do tiat.
But yeah, Shuri and Ramonda have stuck around. Shuri in particular has grown into a fairly recognizable character. So yeah... Hudlin took out 2 but gave back 1, which I guess is still a net gain since that 1 had a bigger impact on the mythos than any other supporting cast member.[/QUOTE]
[B] point is, it's not as though T'Challa doesn't have long standing supporting cast members, he does and Shuri and Ramonda are currently alive and well and aren't going anywhere. Possibly Okoye is back. I wouldn't be surprised if marvel tried to get W'kabi Zuri back to the mix either to match up to the movie[/B]
[QUOTE]
Yes, Disney Thinks Black Panther Is Best Picture-Worthy
[B]“I don’t think that at any point in the process did we feel like this could be an awards movie,” says Marvel executive Nate Moore. “But we did feel like this could have depth in a way that our movies don’t always do.”
[/B]
“My son, it is your time,” Angela Bassett’s Queen Ramonda said to Chadwick Boseman’s soon-to-be-anointed-king T’Challa way back in the first trailer Disney released for its Marvel movie Black Panther. How right the queen turned out to be. Since its release in February, the film has grossed more than $1.3 billion at the global box office and earned effusive praise from critics. The movie and its stars, including Michael B. Jordan, Lupita Nyong’o, and Danai Gurira, satisfied a hunger many had to see themselves represented on- screen, and obliterated a pernicious Hollywood myth that international audiences won’t buy tickets to movies with predominantly black casts. In May, as Black Panther’s writer-director, Ryan Coogler, introduced an outdoor screening of his film at the hallowed Cannes Film Festival, French children in beach chairs began to shout “L’auteur! L’auteur!” in a charmingly Gallic salute to Coogler and his cinematic vision.
Black Panther has clearly already done a great deal for the culture. And audiences have moved on to other adventurers for the summer, from its Marvel brethren in Avengers: Infinity War to the animated superheroes of Incredibles 2 to Tom Cruise hanging off a helicopter in Mission: Impossible–Fallout. But T’Challa may need to slide on his sleek suit for one more important rescue: Black Panther may have to save the Oscars. In an era when the awards show has lost audience, relevance, and its place as a communal cultural moment, Coogler’s comic-book movie delivered on all three, and did so with a level of style and craft that rose above its peers in the genre. Black Panther doesn’t need the Oscars to have its place in history cemented, but the Oscars may need Black Panther.
Instead, movies that drew narrower audiences, such as The Hurt Locker, The Artist, and Spotlight, have prevailed. The most watched Oscars ever was aired 20 years ago, when 55.2 million people tuned in to see Titanic win best picture—a box-office juggernaut and cultural phenomenon with photogenic young stars and an inescapable radio ballad. This year, the top prize went to The Shape of Water, another love story, but one in which the Leonardo DiCaprio role belonged to a sea monster. Some of that shift reflects just how much the major studios have changed, how they’ve left the work of telling many of the most original big-screen stories to independent distributors, taking up instead films with known brands that are easy to sell to international audiences. Black Panther manages to thread a needle: though based on a comic-book character created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby in 1966, and buoyed by the incredible marketing machinery of Disney and Marvel, it feels wholly like Coogler’s original story. To borrow from the French kids on the beach, it’s an auteur film, its Afro-futurist world bearing unmistakably the stamp of its Oakland-born writer-director. “A lot of our films, I think very rightfully and hopefully successfully, just feel like pieces of pure escapism,” said Nate Moore, Marvel Studios vice president of development and production. “This movie attempts to do more. It attempts to make people think about the world that’s around them and celebrate, frankly, a continent, in Africa, that’s often overlooked. I don’t think that at any point in the process did we feel like this could be an awards movie. But we did feel like this could have depth in a way that our movies don’t always do.” For his part, Coogler has some experience making crowd-pleasing movies that awards voters realize they need to take seriously. His Rocky reboot, Creed, surpassed most critics’ expectations that it would be a simple nostalgia play, and helped earn Sylvester Stallone a supporting-actor nomination.
When we peer at the coming Oscar season from the hazy, uncertain days of summer, Black Panther is just one of a handful of studio movies that look likely to mix prestige and populism in a way that could entice broader audiences to tune in to next year’s show. First Man, from Universal, re-teams Ryan Gosling with his La La Land director, Damien Chazelle, in a historical drama about Neil Armstrong’s race to the moon. In A Star Is Born, from Warner Bros., Bradley Cooper directs and stars in an update of the classic show-business story, with Lady Gaga in the role that earned Janet Gaynor and Judy Garland best-actress nominations, and Barbra Streisand a win for original song, in its three previous feature-film iterations. And Mary Poppins Returns, from Disney, places Emily Blunt in the title role and has Lin-Manuel Miranda singing and dancing Dick Van Dyke–style. “None of these are movies where somebody’s dying,” said one Academy voter. “It’s not the year of the little movie. Maybe this is the year where the Oscars will actually be relatable to my cousins.”
For Black Panther to navigate the gauntlet of awards season, Disney will have to work its marketing magic with Oscar voters, extending invitations to special screenings, making the film’s cast and craftspeople available, and leaning in to the inclusivity of the film, which saw women and minorities playing key roles both behind and in front of the camera, such as cinematographer Rachel Morrison, costume designer Ruth E. Carter, and production designer Hannah Beachler. The studio, for all its box-office firepower, has rarely garnered Oscar nominations outside of the animation, visual-effects, and original-song categories in recent years. In 2016, Mark Rylance won the supporting-actor Oscar for Bridge of Spies, which Disney distributed with Twentieth Century Fox, but the studio has not had a best-picture nomination since 2012’s Lincoln or been a major Oscar player with its live-action films since it sold the specialty division Miramax in 2010. (One prize Disney would collect in its planned acquisition of 21st Century Fox is the specialty division Fox Searchlight, a veritable Oscar-minting factory that collected 20 nominations this year and won best picture for The Shape of Water.)
Of course, Disney would like Black Panther to be in the Oscar race for all the usual reasons—the burnishing of egos being a primary one. But the studio has an extra incentive to push a movie that could bring eyeballs to the Oscars: Disney owns ABC, the channel that has been the home of the Oscars since 1976, and retains the broadcast rights to the telecast through 2028. In addition to best picture, Black Panther could be expected to contend in all the major technical categories, as well as in writing for Coogler and his co-writer, Joe Robert Cole; directing; supporting actor for Jordan; and original song for Kendrick Lamar.
The comic-book movie would have to overcome the biases many Academy members harbor toward the genre. A decade ago, the group’s failure to nominate Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight, considered by many the height of the form, inspired major changes to Oscar rules. After that year’s ceremony, the Academy expanded the number of nominations for best picture from 5 films to a possible 10, in a bid to nudge more blockbusters into the race. Yet in the last 10 years, an era when superhero movies have dominated the business side of the industry, and some, like Logan and Wonder Woman last year, earned serious critical bona fides, not a single caped crusader has been nominated for best picture. “Sometimes it feels as if movies based on comics are penalized because of the source material,” said Moore, who was invited to join the Academy this year. “Look, the truth is all of us here at Marvel love the Academy Awards, and so all of us, in our heart of hearts, go, ‘Oh, wouldn’t that be so cool if one day that could happen?’ Ultimately the movie’s for the fans, but critics and people who review these films for the Academy are fans, too.” Well, some of them are fans, anyway. One executive-branch Academy member said to me about Black Panther: “It’s fine. It’s just not a movie made for me. I remember when studios spent that kind of money on Lawrence of Arabia, not a comic book.”
If pressures from streaming companies like Netflix continue, it’s easy to imagine the nostalgia vote 20 years from now going to a “classic” studio picture like Black Panther, a vestige of the halcyon days of 2018, when audiences still bothered to leave their homes to see any movie at all. Just what constitutes an awards movie—a movie “made for me,” in the parlance of this Academy member—is changing, as the industry group is in the midst of strategically evolving its membership. In June, the Academy invited 928 new members to join, the largest and most diverse class in its history, in a step toward hitting ambitious inclusion goals the organization has said it aims to reach by 2020. Will an Academy that is less white and less male find more in common with the everyday moviegoers who flocked to Black Panther?
It might. So far, 2018 has been an impressive year at the U.S. box office, with ticket sales up 8 percent midway through. Much of that uptick has been shouldered by the Disney superhero movies Black Panther, Avengers: Infinity War, and Incredibles 2. The rise has followed a period of declines and dire predictions about the future of the moviegoing experience, and it suggests that reports of the death of the movie theater have been greatly exaggerated. The big screen still matters—what better time for the Oscars to reclaim it.
[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/07/disney-thinks-black-panther-is-best-picture-worthy[/url]
[QUOTE=XPac;3807787]They were still wives in training, he just wasn't using them in that capacity. In Worlds Apart for example, while under Shadow Kings influence he talls the DOras that their wives in training status returned because Storm "betrayed" him. So that aspect of the mythos was never retconned out... it was still there. But they stopped being Brides in training when he got an actual bride, and started being brides in training again when he became a king without a bride again.
The complaint isn't necessarily that he took advantage of them. On panel nothing like that happened, apart from Malice messing with T'Challa which obviously doesn't count. I think the problem is Wakanda having such a system at all, where teenage girls are used as brides in training for political reasons, is sort of messed up. I don't think anyone should be surprised that it's something that's commented on. That's why the entire system frankly needed to end. Not just put on hold, but flat out removed. Which is what happened.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]But yet you continue to harp on something that has been removed long ago but will defend Wakanda having treehouse rape camps ad nauseum, something that should have never happened in the first place.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3807921][video=youtube;-ZmGpTuysKI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZmGpTuysKI[/video]
I lol'd
whoo boy, thank Bast BP came out first.
FTR, I'll be at Aquaman opening night and he is probably my favorite DC character. It is just funny[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Wow. It looks good though.
Too bad they didn't come out with this before Justice League or BvS. This should have come out right behind Wonder Woman.
[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3808080][B] point is, it's not as though T'Challa doesn't have long standing supporting cast members, he does and Shuri and Ramonda are currently alive and well and aren't going anywhere. Possibly Okoye is back. I wouldn't be surprised if marvel tried to get W'kabi Zuri back to the mix either to match up to the movie[/B][/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say he doesn't have any... but I would argue he should have had more, especially after the majority of his male supporting cast members were killed off. I agree that Shuri and Ramonda likely aren't going anywhere... but I think having a male or two in there would be nice. And certainly I hope Okoye sticks around... I honestly don't entirely understand why she vanished after Priests run to begin with, if the Dora's were still being used.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3808178][COLOR="#000080"]But yet you continue to harp on something that has been removed long ago but will defend Wakanda having treehouse rape camps ad nauseum, something that should have never happened in the first place.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I'm not the one who brought up the Dora issue. Again, I'm fine with the situation because it was in fact resolved.
And the treehouse rape thing was resolved two. In a handful of panels, they were taken care of. So as far as I"m concerned, both are non issues now. Doras got their independence and took care of the tree houses, so all is well with the world.
[QUOTE=XPac;3808198]I'm not the one who brought up the Dora issue. Again, I'm fine with the situation because it was in fact resolved.
And the treehouse rape thing was resolved two. In a handful of panels, they were taken care of. So as far as I"m concerned, both are non issues now. Doras got their independence and took care of the tree houses, so all is well with the world.[/QUOTE]
Nah bruv, you're just one of the posters who pours cold water on any enhancements or personal forward momentum for T'challa as a character and Wakanda as a concept whilst waxing loquacious over the watering down if said Wakanda, and total nerfing of T'challa even as supporting characters are developed and elevated above him in his own solo book.
Most core fans enthused by where Hickman left things at Secret Wars II's end juxtaposed against the beginning of Al Ewing's Ultimates, had a lot to look forward to moving forward.
Coates regressionist storytelling agenda full of rape, plunder and general debauchery was more "realistic" to some though.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3807149]Were there rape camps in Latveria too?[/QUOTE]
Doom would wipe the country off the face of the Earth if he even thought there were rape camps in his kingdom.
[QUOTE]Where there any rape camps in Genosha?[/QUOTE]
It would never happen with all the telepaths especially Emma walking around.
Yet only in a black country would rape camps be allowed. I guess enforcing that black men press women story line is the only way to get some folks to read Black Panther.
Fear of the strong black man is strong in the comic fandom. Even with a billion reasons to not fear it.
[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;3808347]Doom would wipe the country off the face of the Earth if he even thought there were rape camps in his kingdom.
It would never happen with all the telepaths especially Emma walking around.
Yet only in a black country would rape camps be allowed. I guess enforcing that black men press women story line is the only way to get some folks to read Black Panther.
Fear of the strong black man is strong in the comic fandom. Even with a billion reasons to not fear it.[/QUOTE]
I don't think human trafficking is necessarily "allowed" in most countries. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's rarely the subject matter of most comic book stories (mostly street level stuff when it does), but I don't think the idea being conveyed her is that Wakanda is the only country on earth where these sort of crimes can happen.
[QUOTE=XPac;3808189]I wouldn't say he doesn't have any... but I would argue he should have had more, especially after the majority of his male supporting cast members were killed off. I agree that Shuri and Ramonda likely aren't going anywhere... but I think having a male or two in there would be nice. And certainly I hope Okoye sticks around... I honestly don't entirely understand why she vanished after Priests run to begin with, if the Dora's were still being used.[/QUOTE]
[B]Taku and N'gassi are still around. So it's not as though he had none. However, Coates decided to add in two bew Characters who are both absolutely useless (Akili did improve a little toward the end of the first arc but still useless)[/B]
[QUOTE=XPac;3808374]I don't think human trafficking is necessarily "allowed" in most countries. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's rarely the subject matter of most comic book stories (mostly street level stuff when it does), but I don't think the idea being conveyed her is that Wakanda is the only country on earth where these sort of crimes can happen.[/QUOTE]
[B] But it just so happens that Wakanda is the onky country in the big two that shows Rape treehouses. It just so happens to be an African nation, an just so happens to have it happen after an event in which any other place would be back to status quo. But Wakanda devolves into savagery and contrived gender inequality and misogyny
complete with offensively obvious big ass treehouses..yeah pure coincidence though. This is so"realistic" [/B]
Do T'challa ever do anything to stop the rape camps?
What about to stop the rampant crime around Wakanda as seen in WoW?
Or did he only spend his time trying to revive his sister instead of tend to his country?
Or did he only react when his throne was threatened?
All that is ok through right?
As a poster I wish would come back used to say.... just asking for a friend.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3808418][B]Taku and N'gassi are still around. So it's not as though he had none. However, Coates decided to add in two bew Characters who are both absolutely useless (Akili did improve a little toward the end of the first arc but still useless)[/B][/QUOTE]
Taku and N'Gassi aren't dead. They're not exacty around though. Writers, Coates included, don't seem terribly fond of either for whatever reason. Hopefully they show up more.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3808446][B] But it just so happens that Wakanda is the onky country in the big two that shows Rape treehouses. It just so happens to be an African nation, an just so happens to have it happen after an event in which any other place would be back to status quo. But Wakanda devolves into savagery and contrived gender inequality and misogyny
complete with offensively obvious big ass treehouses..yeah pure coincidence though. This is so"realistic" [/B][/QUOTE]
We see human trafficking in the States too, from time to time in stories.
If it makes anyone feel better, after Secret Wars Latveria pretty much fell apart too. Scott had an X Nation in the Avenger books (which never existed on the X-Men side of things), which unsurprisingly didn't make it's way back to the regular universe after Secret Wars. So a few countries experienced status quo shifts. Again, it's just a matter of whether or not writers wanted to use Time Runs Out or sweep it under the rug.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3808451]Do T'challa ever do anything to stop the rape camps?
What about to stop the rampant crime around Wakanda as seen in WoW?
Or did he only spend his time trying to revive his sister instead of tend to his country?
Or did he only react when his throne was threatened?
All that is ok through right?
As a poster I wish would come back used to say.... just asking for a friend.[/QUOTE]
Between reviving his sister and later dealing with the rebellion (plus the usual super hero stuff away from Wakanda) yeah... the story makes it clear that thing slipped through the cracks. And no, you can't actually say that's okay regardless of how busy he was or what sort of personal problems he was going through. If he sits in the big chair, that does fall on him and all the excuses in the world can't entirely hand wave that.
He was not in top form when Wakanda wasn't in the best of shape, and people took notice. But he did rebound and ultimately resolve everything... so in the end it sort of worked out. People who wanted change or independence got it, and T'CHalla mostly got back everything he lost (sister, Storm, and eventually the Doras).
Wakanda.
The outskirts.
King T'challa in full Black Panther mode was pacing a couple of cheetahs across the golden veldt.
Black Panther: "Keep up guys!"
Dipping, dodging and acrobatically bypassing natural obstacles with ease.
Shuri: "I have you on satellite now brother... Do you like your new suit?"
Black Panther: "Spectacular! It adjusts and adapts to my every move and the kinetic energy absorption boost has increased my speed... I would have caught Bucky on the highway much sooner if I had this on!"
Bucky/Whitewolf: "Ha, I heard that!"
Black Panther: "I think the cheetahs have tired out already but I feel fine... I will press on towards the leopards and see how well I match up with them!"
The leopard domain...
Black Panther: "What is this!"
Shuri: "Something wrong brother?"
Various leopards were laid out in a daze and very inactive and unresponsive.
King T'challa picks up some paraphernalia off the ground and examines it closely then looks around in shock and awe.
Black Panther: "Opioids!"
Shuri: "Hunh???"
Black Panther: "Heroin... Crack Cocaine... Tide pods..."
Shuri: "Are you telling me that our pet cats are strung out on drugs inside of Wakanda!"
Black Panther: "YEP!"
Shuri: "Who the FRAK is writing us and what purpose or message are they trying to send?"
Black Panther: "I know right... I mean this is worse than treehouse rape camps!"
Bucky/Whitewolf: "Hey, I just work here!"
Shuri: "Do we have to play along or can we rebel and go start a war with Latveria or something?"
Black Panther: "We have the whole Marvel universe to play around in and we FRAKKING with this B.S. right here... C'mon son!"
Bast: "Pass me the hookah!"
:cool:
Editors Note: Although there will be some fans who would defend a writer who wrote such a story arc you have to admit certain topics should be avoided in escapist sci-fi fantasy! :D
[QUOTE=XPac;3808374]I don't think human trafficking is necessarily "allowed" in most countries. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's rarely the subject matter of most comic book stories (mostly street level stuff when it does), but I don't think the idea being conveyed her is that Wakanda is the only country on earth where these sort of crimes can happen.[/QUOTE]
No sir...not Doomy
I may not like the character but I know that there will be no tree house rape camps on an editor for a Dr. Doom story watch. As soon as a writer presented that draft the editor will slide it right back to him..Let us try again
As it happens, I know [B]exactly[/B] how (one version of) Doom deals with the rise of a criminal element in Latveria. And he did it [B]one issue[/B] after hearing about it, despite the fact that he'd only recently regained the throne, and was still consolidating power:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZE2LG1c.jpg[/img]
From DOOM 2099 #27, back when Warren Ellis was still good.
[QUOTE=XPac;3808198][B]I'm not the one who brought up the Dora issue. Again, I'm fine with the situation because it was in fact resolved. [/B]
And the treehouse rape thing was resolved two. In a handful of panels, they were taken care of. So as far as I"m concerned, both are non issues now. Doras got their independence and took care of the tree houses, so all is well with the world.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Dude, you don't have to bring up the issue.
Somebody could say Dora the Explorer and you'd start with your wives-in-training schtick.
[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3808945][COLOR="#000080"]Dude, you don't have to bring up the issue.
Somebody could say Dora the Explorer and you'd start with your wives-in-training schtick.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
And if I ever do happen to respond to a Dora the Explorer post with a wives in training schtick, feel free to call me on it. In this case however, I was responding to a comment made about the usage of the Doras that another poster started.
I'll say again, for me personally both the wives in training issue and the tree house rape issue are resolved as far as I'm concerned, so I'm good. I'll discuss the matters if someone else brings them up, but I've got nothing to complain about at this point.
[QUOTE=LastManStanding;3808645]No sir...not Doomy
I may not like the character but I know that there will be no tree house rape camps on an editor for a Dr. Doom story watch. As soon as a writer presented that draft the editor will slide it right back to him..Let us try again[/QUOTE]
Honestly I doubt the editors would care. Would they be expecting some sort of protest from eastern European comic book fans for their portrayal in a Doom comic?
These are the same editors which agreed to Steve becoming a Nazi, and Spider-Man making a deal with the devil. As long as they feel the story makes sense, I don't think it would be an issue.
[QUOTE=XPac;3808374]I don't think human trafficking is necessarily "allowed" in most countries. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's rarely the subject matter of most comic book stories (mostly street level stuff when it does), but I don't think the idea being conveyed her is that Wakanda is the only country on earth where these sort of crimes can happen.[/QUOTE]
Once again, have you seen rape camps in Attilan, Atlantis, Kun-Lun or any other fictional nations in the MCU?
That's a simple question that multiple posters have asked you in this thread and yet to date, you're yet to give a straight forward yes or no answer.
Hate to break it to you bruv, but if none of the other nations descended into debauchery and utter misogynistic chaos post Secret Wars II, having rape camps and all of that other mess in Wakanda was nothing less than straight pandering to the lowest common denominator by Coates.
End of story.
Apparently the next Black Panther Epic Collection has been announced: [B]Black Panther Epic Collection Vol. 2 - Revenge of the Black Panther[/B].
Collects BLACK PANTHER (1977) 1-15, MARVEL PREMIERE (1972) 51-53, BLACK PANTHER (1988) 1-4, MATERIAL FROM MARVEL TEAM-UP (1972) 100.
I'm a bit surprised it doesn't have Iron Man Annual #5 given that it's a Peter Gillis story.
Meanwhile, here's a story I read from Epic Collection Vol. 1.
Jungle Action Vol. 2 #20 - [i]They Told Me a Myth I Wanted to Believe[/i]
[img]https://www.use.com/images/s_2/3d6c9050906f2d6eb452_2.jpg[/img]
This cover looks very different. It's very modern Americana, which is not what you expect to see in a Jungle Action comic. On the fist page, we see T'Challa (still in his Black Panther costume) in a grocery store. Understandably, he is attracting a lot of stares, but they're not sure why (is he a celebrity, is he a freak show, is he a threat?). Billy Graham draws a wonderful page full of people's confused and shocked stares. It's actually pretty nice to see. One distracted old lady knocks over a bunch of stuff and, when T'Challa turns to help her, a couple of guys (I think Dragon's Circle) hold Monica at knifepoint to delivery a message from "the Reverend."
T'Challa leaps to her defense and does a pretty good job of kicking their asses. Unfortunately, the police show up and they start beating on T'Challa. The old lady joins in while he's down. The sheriff arrives and breaks up the fight, once again showing sympathy to T'Challa and Monica but preferring they didn't ruin his day. In a brief interlude, we find out more about Monica's sister's death. She supposedly went into the real estate office she was suspecting of corruption and committed suicide.
In the final act, T'Challa jumps into the middle of a Klan meeting and starts beating them up. It opens with a wonderful two-page spread. As the story continues, the top and bottom rows of panels follow Monica's story while the middle has T'Challa. It's very good from a formalist perspective. I really don't think Billy Graham gets enough credit as an artist. Unfortunately, T'Challa isn't doing to well against the sheer numbers he's fighting. But the scenes themselves are wonderfully juxtaposed with Kevin Trublood talking about American values and whether it is even worth writing a story about the Klan that will just get his family attacked and change nothing. But he feels he has to because he believes in America. In the panel in between, T'Challa burns on a cross.
The message at the end is powerful and powerfully delivered. It's a bit contrived that T'Challa ended up overwhelmed by a bunch of Klansmen (not just because they're not elite fighters but because the whole thing seems to come out of nowhere and no attempt is made to sell what is happening), but the story itself works really well. So far, I'm continuing to enjoy the story.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3807874]Interesting. Looks like Disney actually wants to hit that milestone.[/QUOTE]
Gain extra PR as it will be only the 3rd movie in history to hit that milestone. Avatar and The Force Awakens were the others. Which will look extra good for shareholders.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3809368]Apparently the next Black Panther Epic Collection has been announced: [B]Black Panther Epic Collection Vol. 2 - Revenge of the Black Panther[/B].
Collects BLACK PANTHER (1977) 1-15, MARVEL PREMIERE (1972) 51-53, BLACK PANTHER (1988) 1-4, MATERIAL FROM MARVEL TEAM-UP (1972) 100.
I'm a bit surprised it doesn't have Iron Man Annual #5 given that it's a Peter Gillis story.
Meanwhile, here's a story I read from Epic Collection Vol. 1.
Jungle Action Vol. 2 #20 - [i]They Told Me a Myth I Wanted to Believe[/i]
[img]https://www.use.com/images/s_2/3d6c9050906f2d6eb452_2.jpg[/img]
This cover looks very different. It's very modern Americana, which is not what you expect to see in a Jungle Action comic. On the fist page, we see T'Challa (still in his Black Panther costume) in a grocery store. Understandably, he is attracting a lot of stares, but they're not sure why (is he a celebrity, is he a freak show, is he a threat?). Billy Graham draws a wonderful page full of people's confused and shocked stares. It's actually pretty nice to see. One distracted old lady knocks over a bunch of stuff and, when T'Challa turns to help her, a couple of guys (I think Dragon's Circle) hold Monica at knifepoint to delivery a message from "the Reverend."
T'Challa leaps to her defense and does a pretty good job of kicking their asses. Unfortunately, the police show up and they start beating on T'Challa. The old lady joins in while he's down. The sheriff arrives and breaks up the fight, once again showing sympathy to T'Challa and Monica but preferring they didn't ruin his day. In a brief interlude, we find out more about Monica's sister's death. She supposedly went into the real estate office she was suspecting of corruption and committed suicide.
In the final act, T'Challa jumps into the middle of a Klan meeting and starts beating them up. It opens with a wonderful two-page spread. As the story continues, the top and bottom rows of panels follow Monica's story while the middle has T'Challa. It's very good from a formalist perspective. I really don't think Billy Graham gets enough credit as an artist. Unfortunately, T'Challa isn't doing to well against the sheer numbers he's fighting. But the scenes themselves are wonderfully juxtaposed with Kevin Trublood talking about American values and whether it is even worth writing a story about the Klan that will just get his family attacked and change nothing. But he feels he has to because he believes in America. In the panel in between, T'Challa burns on a cross.
[B]The message at the end is powerful and powerfully delivered. It's a bit contrived that T'Challa ended up overwhelmed by a bunch of Klansmen (not just because they're not elite fighters but because the whole thing seems to come out of nowhere and no attempt is made to sell what is happening), but the story itself works really well. So far, I'm continuing to enjoy the story.[/B][/QUOTE]
The bit with the reporter talking to Monica's parent really moved me years ago and made it one of my favorite JA issues. I think the speech still works in today's climate.
[QUOTE=XPac;3808478]We see human trafficking in the States too, from time to time in stories.
If it makes anyone feel better, after Secret Wars Latveria pretty much fell apart too. Scott had an X Nation in the Avenger books (which never existed on the X-Men side of things), which unsurprisingly didn't make it's way back to the regular universe after Secret Wars. So a few countries experienced status quo shifts. Again, it's just a matter of whether or not writers wanted to use Time Runs Out or sweep it under the rug.[/QUOTE]
[B]Not even close to the same thing at all dude. Theres a reason people took offense to an AFRICAN nation having treehouse rape camps, and the beacon escapism for Black folks being hammered down with nearly every racial stereotype thrown our way.. not the same at all[/B]
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3808921]As it happens, I know [B]exactly[/B] how (one version of) Doom deals with the rise of a criminal element in Latveria. And he did it [B]one issue[/B] after hearing about it, despite the fact that he'd only recently regained the throne, and was still consolidating power:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZE2LG1c.jpg[/img]
From DOOM 2099 #27, back when Warren Ellis was still good.[/QUOTE]
[B]Sorry, Tchalla doesn't get this
Remember he has been shown too often as "awesome awesome awesome" so now we get to see what a deflated panther looks like who acts like he has never run his country before or has any damn sense what so ever[/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3809499][B]Not even close to the same thing at all dude. Theres a reason people took offense to an AFRICAN nation having treehouse rape camps, and the beacon escapism for Black folks being hammered down with nearly every racial stereotype thrown our way.. not the same at all[/B][/QUOTE]
Seeking escapism from marvel can be a tricky tricky thing because marvel will drag their guys thought the mud. Wakanda under McGregor, Priest, Maeberry, Hickman and of course Coates at times was a troubled place. You can still escape to the place, but there's plenty of bad with the good.
[QUOTE=XPac;3809525]Seeking escapism from marvel can be a tricky tricky thing because marvel will drag their guys thought the mud. Wakanda under McGregor, Priest, Maeberry, Hickman and of course Coates at times was a troubled place. You can still escape to the place, but there's plenty of bad with the good.[/QUOTE]
[B]The difference with those (except Mayberry) is that Tchalla was the hero stopping ****. It letting it happen because he was "too distracted ™" do you honestly think MCU Panther would of been such a smash jitbif it portrayed T'Challa abd Wakanda like Coates is? I'll answer that for you. No chance in hell
Yet here you go and try to make excuses for offensive racial stereotypes[/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3809553][B]The difference with those (except Mayberry) is that Tchalla was the hero stopping ****. It letting it happen because he was "too distracted ™" do you honestly think MCU Panther would of been such a smash jitbif it portrayed T'Challa abd Wakanda like Coates is? I'll answer that for you. No chance in hell
Yet here you go and try to make excuses for offensive racial stereotypes[/B][/QUOTE]
If you have stories taking place in africa, you're almost certainly going to show some black characters commuting criminal behavior. Behavior that can be considered stereotypical. But in the super hero genre, crime happens. Thieves, murderers, and on rare occasion even rapists. I think what turns those negative issues into positive ones is when you see people rise up to end such behavior.
The thing to take away isn't that there are black kidnappers and rapistd, but rather that there were black women who rose up to stop them.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3808945][COLOR="#000080"]Dude, you don't have to bring up the issue.
Somebody could say Dora the Explorer and you'd start with your wives-in-training schtick.
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Knowledge my brother..
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3809499][B]Not even close to the same thing at all dude. Theres a reason people took offense to an AFRICAN nation having treehouse rape camps, and the beacon escapism for Black folks being hammered down with nearly every racial stereotype thrown our way.. not the same at all[/B][/QUOTE]
The funny thing is that one doesn't even have to be of African descent to understand why what Coates has done introducing stereotypical African violence and the subjugation of African women in a Wakanda that was never influenced by Western Imperialism, is thoroughly offensive.
One just has to be monumentally tone deaf or just plain ignorant as to how negative stereotypes reinforce bigoted views.
You can rest assured that Coates would never have dared pulled a similar stunt misrepresenting any other ethnicity in this manner.
[QUOTE=XPac;3808478]We see human trafficking in the States too, from time to time in stories.
If it makes anyone feel better, after Secret Wars Latveria pretty much fell apart too. Scott had an X Nation in the Avenger books (which never existed on the X-Men side of things), which unsurprisingly didn't make it's way back to the regular universe after Secret Wars. So a few countries experienced status quo shifts. Again, it's just a matter of whether or not writers wanted to use Time Runs Out or sweep it under the rug.[/QUOTE]
I don't care where else it happens.
The point folks are making is they are tired of pandering writers like Coates-all he did was feed the worshipers of black men oppress black women and Africa is nothing but huts, children soldiers, Shaka Zulu, abused women and Sally Struthers.
Why is Wakanda the only place shown to be a mess in this book yet it's fine in books like Ms marvel.