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[QUOTE=UltimateTy;299215]Its obvious why they didn't make the Black Panther book a duo book, he was just coming off a 62 issue run and [B][U]Storm has no history of selling[/U][/B]. They could have been setting that book up for failure by doing that even Hudlin's Cap/BP book sold terribly and that was a team up book with fricking Captain America.[/QUOTE]
She'd also never had a solo series to prove she could sell (she's only now, after decades, FINALLY getting her first ever on-going). That said she was (and had been for over a decade) one of the THE X-characters; leading in numerous books, headlining in numerous books that sold. I think it's fair to say her name wouldn't have hurt the comic, at the very least.
[QUOTE=UltimateTy;299215]Meh it sucked the writing was really mediocre and the art was god awful guys here told me not to get it but the completist in had to get it smh lol[/QUOTE]
I disagree. Mayberry had lost a lot of "benefit of the doubt" due to Doomwar (which again is remembered FAR too harshly, everyone loved the first half); and so the writing being fine translated to bad. There were some good bits, good interactions (Storm/Shuri was good) and the A.I.M. father was relatively sad. It wasn't ground-breaking by any means, but it was serviceable. There are far worse comics out there, I always think it's a shame it's remembered with such unfounded dislike. At the very least the poster/cover art was GORGEOUS!
[IMG]http://theshortbox.thefwoosh.com/files/2010/09/KLAWS_1_COVER.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=XPac;299241]I don't think giving Storm equal billing necessarily sets the Black Panther book up for failure at all. S[B]torm is a high profile character and one of the advantages of the marriage was that it was a potential in-road for X-readers (a much larger fan base) to get on board with the Black Panther book. [/B]
That didn't happen for a variety of reasons, but the potential was always there to do that. They could just never channel it properly. I think from a potential marketing perspective it might have helped a little... and in the least I think you could argue Storm deserved equal billing at least at that time.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;299281]She'd also never had a solo series to prove she could sell (she's only now, after decades, FINALLY getting her first ever on-going). That said she was (and had been for over a decade) one of the THE X-characters; leading in numerous books, headlining in numerous books that sold. I think it's fair to say her name wouldn't have hurt the comic, at the very least.
I disagree. Mayberry had lost a lot of "benefit of the doubt" due to Doomwar (which again is remembered FAR too harshly, everyone loved the first half); and so the writing being fine translated to bad. There were some good bits, good interactions (Storm/Shuri was good) and the A.I.M. father was relatively sad. It wasn't ground-breaking by any means, but it was serviceable. There are far worse comics out there, I always think it's a shame it's remembered with such unfounded dislike. At the very least the poster/cover art was GORGEOUS!
[IMG]http://theshortbox.thefwoosh.com/files/2010/09/KLAWS_1_COVER.jpg[/IMG]
Agreed.[/QUOTE]
I'll admit I didn't give Klaws of the Panther really much of a shot. I didn't like the art and frankly didn't like Shuri all that much (Hickman got me to like her a bit more), so I don't think I even ever properly sat down the read the story.
But as for Doom War, I do personally think it was an underrated book. I think the writing and the art were as good if not better than pretty much anything it was sharing the shelf space with.
I do think the event in a lot of ways was more Doom centric than T'Challa centric, so it's not terribly shocking that many didn't appreciate that. But that issue aside, I though the writing was actually pretty darn solid. There are a few little things here and there I didn't agree with, but frankly I could say that about anything.
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;298588]Is The Guardians of The Galaxy movie set in New York?
Black Panther in Hell's Kitchen (New York) got cancelled despite excellent writing by Liss![/QUOTE]
A very astute observation on your part Brotha FLEX.
David Liss's BP run eventually gained positive traction amongst some initially sceptical readers and reviewers appreciative of his virtuoso performance even with an unpopular premise weighing heavily upon the book.
David Liss was just as suprised as the rest of us when the book got cancelled just as he was reintroducing Wakanda back into the narrative flow.
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Don't forget that Liss got cancelled during Black History Month... You know because January or March was not an option! ;)
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;300766]Don't forget that Liss got cancelled during Black History Month... You know because January or March was not an option! ;)[/QUOTE]
That was just so "culturally aware" of Marvel wasn't it? LOL!
Do yo have any idea as to what the sales figures for David Liss's BPO run were at the time?
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[QUOTE=XPac;299293]I'll admit I didn't give Klaws of the Panther really much of a shot. I didn't like the art and frankly didn't like Shuri all that much (Hickman got me to like her a bit more), so I don't think I even ever properly sat down the read the story. [/QUOTE]
It was okay, nothing special, but it wasn't bad (then again I'm someone who liked [I]Young X-men[/I], so take what I say with a grain of salt ;) )
[QUOTE=XPac;299293]But as for Doom War, [B]I do personally think it was an underrated book.[/B] I think the writing and the art were as good if not better than pretty much anything it was sharing the shelf space with.
I do think the event in a lot of ways was more Doom centric than T'Challa centric, so it's not terribly shocking that many didn't appreciate that. But that issue aside, I though the writing was actually pretty darn solid. There are a few little things here and there I didn't agree with, but frankly I could say that about anything.[/QUOTE]
It depends. It's underrated NOW, but when it came out BP fans (the vast majority) were very happy until the end. The end now makes some think they never liked it to begin with (which is convenient revisionism). The polls Umbra and I put up on old-CBR at the time showed the vast majority LOVED the first three issues, where the only complaints were about the horrible JR covers. The next two issues were solid, but very much felt like fillers (with Mayberry being being praised for how he wrote Deadpool). Shadow Physics, War Machine, all that good stuff came then too. Solid, but not as fantastic as the first 3. Then the final issue came out, and the ending left many... unhappy. BUT not foaming at the mouth that we see now. Plenty said they'd give [I]Klaws of the Panther[/I] a chance, though they are sceptical. I don't know when this "unhappy, but I enjoyed it" shifted to the level of hate we see now, but it did. Pity.
Ultimately Doomwar was a fantastic concept, which had a far better start than an end (the final three books needed tightening, and some characters explored better). Rather than the pages devoted to fighting, they could have been devoted to character beats. Obviously the comic wasn't going to end with T'Challa destroying Latveria, but taking the war to him in the last issue would have been far more satisfying. I still give it 4 out of 5, for the art and the overall work.
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;301521]It was okay, nothing special, but it wasn't bad (then again I'm someone who liked [I]Young X-men[/I], so take what I say with a grain of salt ;) )
It depends. It's underrated NOW, but when it came out BP fans (the vast majority) were very happy until the end. [B] The end now makes some think they never liked it to begin with (which is convenient revisionism). [/B]The polls Umbra and I put up on old-CBR at the time showed the vast majority LOVED the first three issues, where the only complaints were about the horrible JR covers. The next two issues were solid, but very much felt like fillers (with Mayberry being being praised for how he wrote Deadpool). Shadow Physics, War Machine, all that good stuff came then too. Solid, but not as fantastic as the first 3. Then the final issue came out, and the ending left many... unhappy. BUT not foaming at the mouth that we see now. Plenty said they'd give [I]Klaws of the Panther[/I] a chance, though they are sceptical. I don't know when this "unhappy, but I enjoyed it" shifted to the level of hate we see now, but it did. Pity.
Ultimately Doomwar was a fantastic concept, which had a far better start than an end (the final three books needed tightening, and some characters explored better). Rather than the pages devoted to fighting, they could have been devoted to character beats. Obviously the comic wasn't going to end with T'Challa destroying Latveria, but taking the war to him in the last issue would have been far more satisfying. I still give it 4 out of 5, for the art and the overall work.[/QUOTE]
No it's not. It's one complete story which was ruined by the ending. If you watch a movie that's good up until the mid point then terribly falls apart halfway through you're under no obligation to say you thought the finished product was good. That's ridiculous and a standard no one in the world follows.
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[QUOTE=Spear of Bashenga;301568]No it's not. It's one complete story which was ruined by the ending. If you watch a movie that's good up until the mid point then terribly falls apart halfway through you're under no obligation to say you thought the finished product was good. That's ridiculous and a standard no one in the world follows.[/QUOTE]
That's not true, there are plenty of films that have a cracking first half and a weak or even bad ending. The film is still good, even if the ending fails.
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;301571]That's not true, there are plenty of films that have a cracking first half and a weak or even bad ending. [B]The film is still good[/B], even if the ending fails.[/QUOTE]
Not if it fails halfway through the film.
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It can still be salvaged.
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[QUOTE=DebkoX;301634]It can still be salvaged.[/QUOTE]
Doomwar? It's over. They can write another story the retcons it, but Doomwar itself is a complete work that ended up being a pretty poor story.
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;301521]It was okay, nothing special, but it wasn't bad (then again I'm someone who liked [I]Young X-men[/I], so take what I say with a grain of salt ;) )
It depends. It's underrated NOW, but when it came out BP fans (the vast majority) were very happy until the end. The end now makes some think they never liked it to begin with (which is convenient revisionism). The polls Umbra and I put up on old-CBR at the time showed the vast majority LOVED the first three issues, where the only complaints were about the horrible JR covers. The next two issues were solid, but very much felt like fillers (with Mayberry being being praised for how he wrote Deadpool). Shadow Physics, War Machine, all that good stuff came then too. Solid, but not as fantastic as the first 3. Then the final issue came out, and the ending left many... unhappy. BUT not foaming at the mouth that we see now. Plenty said they'd give [I]Klaws of the Panther[/I] a chance, though they are sceptical. I don't know when this "unhappy, but I enjoyed it" shifted to the level of hate we see now, but it did. Pity.
Ultimately Doomwar was a fantastic concept, which had a far better start than an end (the final three books needed tightening, and some characters explored better). Rather than the pages devoted to fighting, they could have been devoted to character beats. Obviously the comic wasn't going to end with T'Challa destroying Latveria, but taking the war to him in the last issue would have been far more satisfying. I still give it 4 out of 5, for the art and the overall work.[/QUOTE]
It may just me be wearing rose colored glasses, but I thought Maeberry's Black Panther work on the on-going book prior to Doom War was pretty well received. It's unfortunate how essentially one issue at the end of Doom War essentially pulled down the entire run for some at least. I thought it was a solid well crafted run. Ah well.
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[QUOTE=DebkoX;301634]It can still be salvaged.[/QUOTE]
Even if I hated Doom War (which I don't), the fact that it led to Liss' run on the book alone would have made it completely worth it for me.
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[QUOTE=XPac;301668][B]It may just me be wearing rose colored glasses, but I thought Maeberry's Black Panther work on the on-going book prior to Doom War was pretty well received[/B]. It's unfortunate how essentially one issue at the end of Doom War essentially pulled down the entire run for some at least. I thought it was a solid well crafted run. Ah well.[/QUOTE]
Most people thought the Doomwar prelude stuff was pretty good. That's a seperate issue than the actual Doomwar event. But it's certainly not unfair to say that a bad ending marred an otherwise solid run.
Dude completely bailed on the landing. You don't win a medal for an otherwise good routine that ends in a faceplant.
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DOOMWAR POLLS???
First off did everybody participate in these polls because I might have been on vacation then... Was there a memo I didn't get?
Most polls on CBR are answered by dozens maybe hundreds if you are lucky but thousands actually buy the comics so I'm not sure if those numbers are at all accurate!
Revisionism... It's part of this nutritious breakfast and it tastes great too!
There is no way that I liked the speech T'challa gave at the end of Doomwar as he got slapped around by the Latverian monarch!
I get it that some of us are either not really fans of Black Panther or just like the watered down versions better than the watered up versions but yaw'll be tripping some times!
Besides if it were so well received Maberrry would have stayed on the book as it was backed up by the well spending voters in those mystery polls from yesteryear!
I'm starting a poll on Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks to see if we get similar results but no one over 12 years of age are allowed to vote so let's see how that turns out! ;)