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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2610529][B]I'm not throwing her under the bus, I just don't believe that she is more important or influencial to the overall MU then Tchalla just because she is new and they want to Hype her up. Give her some feats to back it up and I'll believe it but considering Tchalla created a ship to survive the destruction of everything as well as restoring 616, I would say that's a bit more important in my book[/B][/QUOTE]
I think people think that Marvel editorial created the list and put her at the top as a way of getting people to read the book, but that's not actually the case. Instead, the writers of the book came up with the idea and pitched it to Marvel who approved it. The reason was this: they wanted their target audience: young readers (particularly young girls of color) to feel inspired that they might be super smart as well. She's a character who is supposed to inspire and be relatable - similar to how Peter Parker was a genius as a teen for the 60s kids audience. I'm not saying it necessarily makes it better, necessarily makes it worse, but it wasn't designed to hype the character but to appeal to her target audience.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2610680]
Next some "fan" will say "tchalla said it was vals idea!" Which was 100% referring to the "not lose" note.
She yold doom to not lose to... i guess we can give val vredit for battle world too lol
Giving val credit for the life raft bc she took tchallas designs and delegated who builds what is just.... bp fans are weird[/QUOTE]
Hey, I'm not the one who wanted to make the life raft the be-all, end-all of the list. But I do think she deserves discussion for smartest person - particularly when she came up with a solution to the problem when everyone else was still myopically focusing on paddling up stream to see it.
I will say this to clear things up. I pulled my FCBD issue. It's definitely the same design on that scan with T'Challa. The FCBD issue stood out to me because I read it before I read TRO and because I owned a physical copy I could digest (as opposed to burning through dozens of issues on Marvel Unlimited).
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2610653]And THIS is the real damage Coates has done to T'Challa's character. We're so hungry for ANYTHING that makes our fave hero look noble, heroic, and/or competent that we're jealous of a young girl. :P
Hell, one could argue that T'Challa was actually hyped the same way, back in the day. Reed was supposed to be this big brain (although not to the physics-breaking degree he became later) and he's in awe of the ship T'Challa gave him. And, of course, Panther handles the FF pretty easily (he's only defeated due to a wild-card variable)
The difference, I think, is in approach. T'Challa was a guest character. He was introduced, given a spotlight, and then became a recurring but not regular character for a few years until his eventual ongoing.
These days, tho, new characters are immediately given their own title, and trumpeted with disturbing amounts of hype. If Lunella, for example, had been introduced in a storyline in Ms. Marvel, and had been given a few years for the readers to get used to her (and indicate whether they actually LIKED her) I think she might have more approval. But instead, Marvel shoved her down the readers throats, thereby alienating many older readers. They've been doing that a lot, lately... one could also count the Midnight Angels as an example.[/QUOTE]
I see it a little differently. I mean...back in the day Marvel/DC pretty regularly gave brand new characters their own titles immediately and those comics either sank or swam on their own merits. The only reason Marvel didn't do more during the 60's was because a weird distribution deal with DC where Marvel was literally prohibited from putting out a certain number of titles.
I don't completely buy the idea that people hate Moon Girl because she being shoved down the readers throats. Especially considering the appearances that characters like Wolverine and Deadpool get and widespread Spider-Man used to be. And to suggest that MA ( however good or bad Coates/Gay writes them) are shoved down anyone's throat is a little crazy.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2610791][B]I think people think that Marvel editorial created the list and put her at the top as a way of getting people to read the book, but that's not actually the case. Instead, the writers of the book came up with the idea and pitched it to Marvel who approved it. The reason was this: they wanted their target audience: young readers (particularly young girls of color) to feel inspired that they might be super smart as well. She's a character who is supposed to inspire and be relatable - similar to how Peter Parker was a genius as a teen for the 60s kids audience. I'm not saying it necessarily makes it better, necessarily makes it worse, but it wasn't designed to hype the character but to appeal to her target audience.[/B]
Hey, I'm not the one who wanted to make the life raft the be-all, end-all of the list. But I do think she deserves discussion for smartest person - particularly when she came up with a solution to the problem when everyone else was still myopically focusing on paddling up stream to see it.
I will say this to clear things up. I pulled my FCBD issue. It's definitely the same design on that scan with T'Challa. The FCBD issue stood out to me because I read it before I read TRO and because I owned a physical copy I could digest (as opposed to burning through dozens of issues on Marvel Unlimited).[/QUOTE]
Even if was designed just to hype the character, I fail to see how that's a terrible thing.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2610779]I think it tends to default to "best at comic-book Science!™". You'll notice that they are all involved in the hard sciences, and are also inventors/engineers. There are no pure researchers (like Einstein or Hawking), no philosophers or artists. It's all very left-brain, very mechanical. When you get down to it, the list really ranks "who builds the best toys?"[/QUOTE]
Yeah... that whole top 10 list couldn't cast a simple magic spell for instance lol
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2610791]
Hey, I'm not the one who wanted to make the life raft the be-all, end-all of the list. But I do think she deserves discussion for smartest person - particularly when she came up with a solution to the problem when everyone else was still myopically focusing on paddling up stream to see it.
I will say this to clear things up. I pulled my FCBD issue. It's definitely the same design on that scan with T'Challa. The FCBD issue stood out to me because I read it before I read TRO and because I owned a physical copy I could digest (as opposed to burning through dozens of issues on Marvel Unlimited).[/QUOTE]
Oh Val is definitely super smart. Not sure of all her feats these days because I don't care about her much (i don't like any 5 year olds besides my own kids lolol) but she is legit.
Just with the specific life raft "credit"... that shit si T'challa's damn it!
Fun fact... a life raft thread on CBR where everyone wated to give Val credit for it 100% until I had to bust out scans is one of the catalysts for the blog lol
[QUOTE=ed2962;2610803]Even if was designed just to hype the character, I fail to see how that's a terrible thing.[/QUOTE]
Moon Girl ruffles CBR users feathers (not anyone in here specifically) because she keeps getting issue after issue despite not selling floppies and people act like she is keeping there favorite Z list character from being published. comic book fans are weird.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2610779]I think it tends to default to "best at comic-book Science!™". You'll notice that they are all involved in the hard sciences, and are also inventors/engineers. There are no pure researchers (like Einstein or Hawking), no philosophers or artists. It's all very left-brain, very mechanical. When you get down to it, the list really ranks "who builds the best toys?"[/QUOTE]
I think that's normally how comics gage who is the smartest. But in this case I don't think that's true since Moon Girl won. She's in elementary school ... she doesn't have the resources to build the best toys regardless of how smart she is.
She did make some cool toys, which is impressive given her limited resources. But her standing as smartest is based purely on what was essentially an IQ test.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2610803]Even if was designed just to hype the character, I fail to see how that's a terrible thing.[/QUOTE]
If it was a different character I think this would bug me more. Scientist supremre Pym for example was kinda weird. But honestly Moon Girl is just so fun I can't bring myself to really be bothered by it.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2610847]I think that's normally howould comics gage who is the smartest. But in this case I don't think that's true since Moon Girl won. She's in elementary school ... she doesn't have the resources to build the best toys regardless of how smart she is.
She did make some cool toys, which is impressive given her limited resources. But her standing as smartest is based purely on what was essentially an IQ test.[/QUOTE]
T'challa and Moon Girl can have a tech competitio to see who can make the coolest shit using supplies from Radio Shack
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[QUOTE=XPac;2610724]I think you're talking about entirely diferent things.
This listing was about intelligence, which isn't the same thing as being important or influential. If it was asking who is the most important influencial characters to the overall MU Iron Man or Reed would probably be at the top of that list over Moon Girl. I don't think ANYONE thinks Moon Girls is the most important or influential person on that list... it's just that she according to marvel is the most intelligent. It's apples and oranges.[/QUOTE]
[B]Watch the video at the end it says the list is contrived based on overall importance and influence. Tchalla is not at 10, if they are going off importance and influence then he should be right there at number 2 or 3 atleast. Considering what he has done in recent years. Val I would recognize her on the list based on NA, but moon girl and riri nor really. Really it's just a promo video to get people to read about the new characters, Because the kist itself contradicts itself.[/B]
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2610791]I think people think that Marvel editorial created the list and put her at the top as a way of getting people to read the book, but that's not actually the case. Instead, the writers of the book came up with the idea and pitched it to Marvel who approved it. The reason was this: they wanted their target audience: young readers (particularly young girls of color) to feel inspired that they might be super smart as well. She's a character who is supposed to inspire and be relatable - similar to how Peter Parker was a genius as a teen for the 60s kids audience. I'm not saying it necessarily makes it better, necessarily makes it worse, but it wasn't designed to hype the character but to appeal to her target audience.
Hey, I'm not the one who wanted to make the life raft the be-all, end-all of the list. But I do think she deserves discussion for smartest person - particularly when she came up with a solution to the problem when everyone else was still myopically focusing on paddling up stream to see it.
I will say this to clear things up. I pulled my FCBD issue. It's definitely the same design on that scan with T'Challa. The FCBD issue stood out to me because I read it before I read TRO and because I owned a physical copy I could digest (as opposed to burning through dozens of issues on Marvel Unlimited).[/QUOTE]
[B] look at the video it says at the end how the list was based, and I don't think riri, Cho and Moon girl have hit that importance and influence level yet. If they want Moon girl to be the smartest character in MU then do It. But make it earned.
Wakanda being the most advanced nation on earth was earned Because we were shown why and how. It was just "hey here's a new character who is the leader of the most advanced nation on earth, but you don't really see anything as to why we are just going to say it and that is that" it was earned.
That's all I'm saying. If they want to make riri moon girl and Cho on the list then show us why with legit reason. Riri creating a Ironman suit in college doesn't automatically mean she is ranked higher, I mean then I could say remember how Tchalla created his light armor at age 12 or how he could create a Ironman suit that rivaled Tony's but chose not to.
Basically it's a new trend that marvel wants instant results or establishment without the work it takes to earn what they are claiming[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2610895][B] look at the video it says at the end how the list was based, and I don't think riri, Cho and Moon girl have hit that importance and influence level yet. If they want Moon girl to be the smartest character in MU then do It. But make it earned.[/B][/QUOTE]
The video is just drawing from the comic, though, no?
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2610986]The video is just drawing from the comic, though, no?[/QUOTE]
At least as far as Moon Girl being the smartest character, it's drawing directly from the comic.
Nothing supports the notion of her being the most important or influential character though.
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I kinda think the whole Moon Girl hasn't earned her position as the smartest thing is an odd complaint. These are fictional characters in superhero comics, they only do what the writers and editors say they can do. "Earning" has nothing to do with anything. For instance, people forget that for like the first four years of All New All Different X-Men, Wolverine was punked on a regular basis. That changed because John Byrne didn't want the to get rid of him and insisted they put more thought into making him more interesting. That's when they started the whole "best there is at what I do" bit. He didn't earn anything, they just started writing him better.
Or maybe here's a better example over at DC, they established that Captain Atom and Shazam are actually stronger than Superman. Why? Cause the editors said so and then they did stories where that was the fact. Now, you can say that those heroes aren't as popular as Clark, but there weren't mass complaints that they didn't earn their positions, fans simply thought their comics were boring or whatever.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2610812]Yeah... that whole top 10 list couldn't cast a simple magic spell for instance lol
Oh Val is definitely super smart. Not sure of all her feats these days because I don't care about her much (i don't like any 5 year olds besides my own kids lolol) but she is legit.
Just with the specific life raft "credit"... that shit si T'challa's damn it!
Fun fact... a life raft thread on CBR where everyone wated to give Val credit for it 100% until I had to bust out scans is one of the catalysts for the blog lol
Moon Girl ruffles CBR users feathers (not anyone in here specifically) because she keeps getting issue after issue despite not selling floppies and people act like she is keeping there favorite Z list character from being published. comic book fans are weird.[/QUOTE]
For me at leasy, I'll say that top 10 list actually worked. I never read Moon Girls book until this list was published. I checked it out due to sheer curiousity, but now I'm convinced this character has a lot of potential. She's got Disney written all over her.
Not sure how many Reed, Stark and T'Challa fanshe made as enemies but it at least got my attention.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2611035]I kinda think the whole Moon Girl hasn't earned her position as the smartest thing is an odd complaint. These are fictional characters in superhero comics, they only do what the writers and editors say they can do. "Earning" has nothing to do with anything. For instance, people forget that for like the first four years of All New All Different X-Men, Wolverine was punked on a regular basis. That changed because John Byrne didn't want the to get rid of him and insisted they put more thought into making him more interesting. That's when they started the whole "best there is at what I do" bit. He didn't earn anything, they just started writing him better.
Or maybe here's a better example over at DC, they established that Captain Atom and Shazam are actually stronger than Superman. Why? Cause the editors said so and then they did stories where that was the fact. Now, you can say that those heroes aren't as popular as Clark, but there weren't mass complaints that they didn't earn their positions, fans simply thought their comics were boring or whatever.[/QUOTE]
Where was it stated Captain Atom and Shazam are stronger than Superman? Cause I can assure you if it was there'd be rioting from the superfans. Look at the reaction Geoff Johns saying DCEU WW was just as strong as DCEU Superman with better fighting skills
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;2611051]Where was it stated Captain Atom and Shazam are stronger than Superman? Cause I can assure you if it was there'd be rioting from the superfans. Look at the reaction Geoff Johns saying DCEU WW was just as strong as DCEU Superman with better fighting skills[/QUOTE]
I don't have a direct link, but this was back during the late 80's when Byrne/DC seriously cut back on Supes strength levels.