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[QUOTE=Cville;3597670]They were when Priest created them. Considering the only ones left were following Hunter. Now they're just red shirts when Shuri brought them back.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this.
I'd point out that they weren't villains per say. The crap they threw at T'Challa was all stuff they knew he could handle.
In comics, shooting a rocket at someone is basically shouting 'Hey, look at me!'
That said, they were a secret police that T'Challa outlawed. It's been a while, but I don't recall him exiling them. I'm still disappointed at how they have been 'normalized' and like the Dora, their concept expanded to the point of being meaningless.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3597922]Yeah, this.
I'd point out that they weren't villains per say. The crap they threw at T'Challa was all stuff they knew he could handle.
In comics, shooting a rocket at someone is basically shouting 'Hey, look at me!'
That said, they were a secret police that T'Challa outlawed. It's been a while, but I don't recall him exiling them. I'm still disappointed at how they have been 'normalized' and like the Dora, their concept expanded to the point of being meaningless.[/QUOTE]
I think they were normalized to the point of being usable, since T'Challa as king wouldn't use them as secret police. They essentially became Wakandan red shirts ... better them than the DM I suppose.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3597746][B]I was hoping Tchalla would smack on doom, but what we got was good too. Evan's would give us a satisfactory victory of they fought. Plus we got good showings like BP putting hands on Namor and bucky, and a reverse challenge day which made Tchalla look that much more Impressive[/B][/QUOTE]
The rh ing is T'Challa and Doon were on surprisingly food terms prior to Hudlin having Doom put him in a coma.
Not that they were BFF's or anything ... but there was a degree of respect and a working relationship there. So it probably was a good idea not to generate too much hostility between them.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3597922] I'm still disappointed at how they have been 'normalized' and like the Dora, their concept expanded to the point of being meaningless.[/QUOTE]
well, before they were meaningless red shirts, they were non-existent. Priest was the last to use them. I don't think Hudlin mentioned them once (it wouldn't fit his utopian Wakanda well).
Being Shuri's bodyguard's at least gave her some cool looking redshirts to die when the time comes lol.
Coates at least tried to make one of them somethign other than a red shirt... Akili does have a mean backflip. Fortunately or Unfortunately (dependign how you want to look at it), Akili has gotten kind of lost when Coates started bringing in all the old supporting characters.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3598075]well, before they were meaningless red shirts, they were non-existent. Priest was the last to use them. I don't think Hudlin mentioned them once (it wouldn't fit his utopian Wakanda well).
Being Shuri's bodyguard's at least gave her some cool looking redshirts to die when the time comes lol.
Coates at least tried to make one of them somethign other than a red shirt... Akili does have a mean backflip. Fortunately or Unfortunately (dependign how you want to look at it), Akili has gotten kind of lost when Coates started bringing in all the old supporting characters.[/QUOTE]
[B]That's because storm, Eden and Thunderball have taken up Wakandan specific spots. Remove those three and akili and Okoye can do more, oh and bring back Taku.
Like the original Dora's, the HZ Should be small in size. A dozen at most, however, these are the elites, how Nakia and Okoye were a Jack of all trades type guards, the HZ should be essentially seals. I always broke it down this way, ib terms of fighting prowess 1 v 1, Dora's would walk all over the HZ. In terms of group based combat, HZ would destroy the Dora's. They basically act like the Doras did in the movie and the Doras would be more akin to Nakia in the movie.
Both factions should be small but incredibly dangerous. 1 of them is the equivalent to 10-15 Wakandan soldiers. And each faction has it's own specific weapons and tactics. Dora's represent tradition and technology perfectly blended into a deadly force and the HZ take afrofuturist extreme fully embracing technology to the fullest. [/B]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3598075]well, before they were meaningless red shirts, they were non-existent. Priest was the last to use them. I don't think Hudlin mentioned them once (it wouldn't fit his utopian Wakanda well).
Being Shuri's bodyguard's at least gave her some cool looking redshirts to die when the time comes lol.
Coates at least tried to make one of them somethign other than a red shirt... Akili does have a mean backflip. Fortunately or Unfortunately (dependign how you want to look at it), Akili has gotten kind of lost when Coates started bringing in all the old supporting characters.[/QUOTE]
One writer not using them doesn't erase them from canon ;)
Dunno why they don't just introduce some armored red shirts.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3598514]One writer not using them doesn't erase them from canon ;)
Dunno why they don't just introduce some armored red shirts.[/QUOTE]
That may essentialy be what the Dora's are now... armored red shirts. Apart from the main ones that is.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3597549]That is why it was satisfying to see the Wrecking Crew put a textbook beat down on him. I need to follow up to see how it turned out.[/QUOTE]
When did this happen?
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3597576]Potentially prematurely judging from what we know last issue of Rise and one 2 page preview...
Yes.
Hunter seemingly showed Doom how to get in and invited him. Is that not treason? And if the rest of the HZ members are hiding Hunter and refusing to answer to their king, then yeah...that makes them villains.
Hunter and the HZ always had a back and forth relationship with T'challa. I believe their first appearance ever they attack T'challa correct? Right after he was tricked into kissing Nakia, exits the car and they attack him if memory serves me correctly. Hunter is also the same guy that brought Klaw back to life in Priest run as well. And went on a murder rampage in Liss run. Dude has a warped concept of protecting Wakanda and serving the King.
At the same time, I remember Hunter being by T'challa's side during the Killmonger stuff. Shuri obviously invited them back in. And in Coate's run, T'challa is chummy with the HZ again (with no Hunter in sight though).
It isn't a black or white thing. It is a "it depends" thing.
It seems weird to point out to the instances when T'challa has fought Wakandans, when he has fought people other than Wakandans far more often.[/QUOTE]
Thinking outside of the box in a nuanced manner can appear as being "weird" to some.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3597670]They were when Priest created them. Considering the only ones left were following Hunter. Now they're just red shirts when Shuri brought them back.[/QUOTE]
Are the Dora Milaje "red shirts" too?
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3598222][B]That's because storm, Eden and Thunderball have taken up Wakandan specific spots. Remove those three and akili and Okoye can do more, oh and bring back Taku.
Like the original Dora's, the HZ Should be small in size. A dozen at most, however, these are the elites, how Nakia and Okoye were a Jack of all trades type guards, the HZ should be essentially seals. I always broke it down this way, ib terms of fighting prowess 1 v 1, Dora's would walk all over the HZ. In terms of group based combat, HZ would destroy the Dora's. They basically act like the Doras did in the movie and the Doras would be more akin to Nakia in the movie.
Both factions should be small but incredibly dangerous. 1 of them is the equivalent to 10-15 Wakandan soldiers. And each faction has it's own specific weapons and tactics. Dora's represent tradition and technology perfectly blended into a deadly force and the HZ take afrofuturist extreme fully embracing technology to the fullest. [/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed 100.
This is the outside of the box thinking I alluded to in a previous poat.
Having played The Division for a few months now, I kind've visualise the Hatut Zeraze as being elite shadow warriors fully teched out and lethal much like the Hunters in the aforementioned game.
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3598514]One writer not using them doesn't erase them from canon ;)
Dunno why they don't just introduce some armored red shirts.[/QUOTE]
Well, of course not.
The issue was, Hudlin ignored them for 41 issues, then they got ignored for another 12 issues of the hudlin/mayberry hybrid run then ignored in Doom War (so they are at war and they still don't show up?), then Liss really couldn't use him but he did have time to write that bad Hunter story then AvX and they weren't used.
That is a loooooooooooooooooooooong time in the comic world to disappear off the face of the earth.
There have been other random red-shirt soldiers here and there. And, TBH, even though Hickman is the one that brought them back and turned them into red-shirts... he is also the same one that had them attack and obliterate Atlantis. And he gave them a role as the queens personal bodyguards. So, at least they were elite redshirts.
Now they are T'challa personal SEALS now and one of them has a name. Which is the biggest development since Priest for them.
If anything, the HZ stock is rising.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3599015]Are the Dora Milaje "red shirts" too?[/QUOTE]
Since Hudlin took over and beyond, unfortunately yes.
Coates is kind of fixing that by giving 2 of them names and some (bad) agency and at the same time making it so Okoye showed up out of the blue again.
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Oh BTW, a word of caution on "Black Panther is going to lead the Avengers!"
Apparently, Thor is the one that is meeting with Rogers in a bar and says they should get the band back together (tony).
I'd imagine, prematurely judging from a leaked panels and unfinished pages, there might be "two" groups put together than end up becoming one. We did get that page with T'challa and Strange are together (which makes sense).
I wouldn't be surprised if T'challa goes to Strange, finds Ghost Rider (since that was the original BC team) and ends up coming together with Thor, Cap, Stark.
