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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;376964]Yeah. While i'm on the other side of this argument and pro-Hickman at the moment--I'm fully on the Deconstructing v. Reconstructing. T'challa reconstructing has been minimal. Since this is a deconstructing story, the stuff like stale mating Batman and other little things, seems lacking. To the point where if he had prior reconstructing in a positive manner, I don't think we would be split or having this debate. So I get where you guys are coming from.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate your meeting me halfway on this debate but at present, I'm finding it virtually impossible to give Jonathan Hickman the benefit of the doubt where T'Challa's trajectory is concerned and I say this for a number of reasons.
1) Hickman is no fool.
The fact that he admitted to having researched Priest's take on T'Challa initially gave me the confidence to stay open to seeing what special stuff he'd bring to the table and despite the deaths of the Wakandan youths that baptized NA#1 with blood, T'Challa's strong showing against Black wan and her henchmen was enough to keep me intrigued.
Where I began to become wary of what he was doing was when after having built up the whole KOTD thing in the pages of the FF set against the backdrop of some of his online commentary as to T'Challa's supposedly superhuman status, he failed to show T'Challa physically besting Black Dwarf on panel.
I found this especially annoying in light of the fact that he had no problem writing Black Dwarf's on panel demise at the hand of a Gladiator, Annihilus and Ronan (to mention a few)
2) Hickman's penchant for pulling hitherto unmentioned regions (the Necropolis) from out of nowhere to further his story whilst ignoring already established locations like T'Challa's Techno Jungle grated on me because for all intents and purposes, T'Challa's own accomplishments were now as hidden as his off panel "victory" over Black Dwarf much to T'Challa's detriment.
3) T'Challa's complete lack of tactical awareness especially as regards the imprisonment of WMD's (inanimate and animate) within the Necropolis which for someone claiming to have the protection of Wakanda and her people as one of his primary reasons for existing, struck me as being something that Maberry's T'Challa would do moreso than anything Priest or Hudlin's iteration of the character would.
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;376964]It's flat out going to be either Hickman delivers and does what he said he was setting out to do---leave T'challa in the right place and at the center of the MU or he bombs hard like Maberry. Still a long way to go. Deconstructing is fine, they are my favorite stories, because it allows a writer to refine and redefine characters. The issue with Panther is he's never really rebuilt. Priest, Hudlin, AvX, each instance for some reason the didn't get rebuild. Priest it was cancellation, Hudlin it was rebooting with Shuri, Hudlin moving on and then the Doomwar disaster. AvX was at his expense. [/QUOTE]
And what might this reason for T'Challa's continual tearing down sans rebuilding be?
Could it be along the lines of whatever reasons Kevin Feige has for continuously evading questions as to why a Black panther movie remains ever elusive
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;376964]So I get why some are wary. I just don't think Hickman is going to screw T'challa, since the story actually rides on T'challa raising to the occasion. [/QUOTE]
Hickman will not do so deliberately but his failure to really understand T'Challa and his motivations may very well lead to a Doomwar type mishap of catastrophic proportions for the BP mythos.
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;376964]A key issue is number 24 and the time skip.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/op1wms.jpg[/IMG]
I'd like to be pleasantly suprised but I remain sceptical.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;377032]No need for you to apologize BCB. We got a good debate going on here so it's all good.
The best thing is that I'm back on the regular now.[/QUOTE]
Woooohooooo! :cool:
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[QUOTE=PSYCHIATRIST;377101]Correct bobo, I've been following NA since #1, I registered to praise the book. Then, this happened! Gaddamit! The KoTD's making his sis look like Cabal material! Bast where you at?!? Dem dead BPs just bounced on yaboy! As for the rest of the NA, good looking out Strange. About time you put the Supreme back in Sorceror! Hulk...damn brah...I can't even. Namor...keep being Namor, son! Imperius Rex! Blackbolt...dude...what happen to that voice? Wait...don't say anythin', it's coo' though.
Anyhoo, glad to see the Brotherhood (mah peeps) stayin' civil in regards to the latest BP developments. Stay creepy, brothers![/QUOTE]
Mah broda, what else can we do.
The days are dark and the shadows are long.:cool:
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;377040]It takes more guts to face death and not commit mass murder to save your own hide. I don't think that is "gangsta" at all. It's not more "gangsta" then bending his knee to Proxima who called him a dead man, just to save him own hide. There nothing gangsta about killing innocent people.[/QUOTE]
Vic, always standing his ground! East of West is da shiiiiiiiii...! Anyway, I feel you. But Namor's been through all kinds of stuff over the years and yet he stays Namor (Imperious Rex!). What about BP? Why he gotta be changing every other year? IMHO, BP been toned down too long. Brother's been gangsta all his life. It's what Wakandan Kings do...at least Priest's BP. I say, either make him grow from doing ish like this, realize this parallel world killin' ain't the way to go and do a Steve Rogers (but bounce befo' getting mindwiped and seek other means of solving this Incursion mess (dude's smart and all that) or...put him back in Hell's kitchen. But hey, we can agree to disagree, and IMHO, that's what the Brotherhood should be about.
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Both sides has good points. IMO how Hickman's run end will be the deciding point to whether we put his work up there with Priest or whether we put it near the bottom with Roy Thomas. Anyway hello my fellow creeps. :cool:
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[QUOTE=Shadey;377160]Both sides has good points. IMO how Hickman's run end will be the deciding point to wether we put his work up there with Priest or wether we put it near the bottom with Roy Thomas. Anyway hello my fellow creeps. :cool:[/QUOTE]
Welcome back Shadey. :)
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[QUOTE=PSYCHIATRIST;377146]Vic, always standing his ground! East of West is da shiiiiiiiii...! Anyway, I feel you. But Namor's been through all kinds of stuff over the years and yet he stays Namor (Imperious Rex!). What about BP? Why he gotta be changing every other year? IMHO, BP been toned down too long. Brother's been gangsta all his life. It's what Wakandan Kings do...at least Priest's BP. I say, either make him grow from doing ish like this, realize this parallel world killin' ain't the way to go and do a Steve Rogers (but bounce befo' getting mindwiped and seek other means of solving this Incursion mess (dude's smart and all that) or...put him back in Hell's kitchen. But hey, we can agree to disagree, and IMHO, that's what the Brotherhood should be about.[/QUOTE]
No doubt.
Shady said it best. It's either Hickman is going to have a Priest like impact or Roy Thomas. LMAO.
I'm sickened by the thoughts of the latter.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;377181]No doubt.
Shady said it best. It's either Hickman is going to have a Priest like impact or Roy Thomas. LMAO.
[B]I'm sickened by the thoughts of the latter[/B].[/QUOTE]
Let the projectile vomit fly true. :)
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;377181]No doubt.
Shady said it best. It's either Hickman is going to have a Priest like impact or Roy Thomas. LMAO.
I'm sickened by the thoughts of the latter.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if it will have the impact of Priest but I definitely believe that it won't be Roy Thomas or Doomwar. That, I believe.
S' up Shadey.
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Dont think he can be as bad a Roy Thomas, that would require being a u know what
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;377181]No doubt.
Shady said it best. It's either Hickman is going to have a Priest like impact or Roy Thomas. LMAO.
I'm sickened by the thoughts of the latter.[/QUOTE]
I had chills as I was typing his name lol.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;377040]It takes more guts to face death and not commit mass murder to save your own hide. I don't think that is "gangsta" at all. It's not more "gangsta" then bending his knee to Proxima who called him a dead man, just to save him own hide. There nothing gangsta about killing innocent people.[/QUOTE]
That actually fits the textbook definition of gangsta. See link below.
[url]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gangsta[/url]
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;377193]I don't know if it will have the impact of Priest but I definitely believe that it won't be Roy Thomas or Doomwar. That, I believe.
S' up Shadey.[/QUOTE]
I think It can. Doomwar was a limited mini series, easily ignored and pushed aside. New Avengers is a twin flagship title and called the most important book at Marvel. If the doesn't come correct then Maj., Flex and co are 100% correct it will be damaging (though he will survive), like wise if the does come correct it could have a huge impact and spring him forward. Otherwise the deconstructing is senseless. When you deconstruct, the rebuilt product is what everyone is waiting for. Priest deconstructed T'challa, but he did it right and wasn't allowed to finish. He deconstructed Roy Thomas Panther, and how T'challa fit in the MU. As well as T'challa himself. So imho, Hickman's NA will good or bad define Panther for a while.
Books like Avengers, New Avenger and it's events will be readily available in any LCB, where some books you are hard pressed to find anywhere for various reasons. So yeah, I hope he nails it. If he doesn't, it will hurt the character imho. I just don't think it will happen though. Hickman is a smart guy. I think (and hope) T'challa is going to cut loose.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;377136]Mah broda, what else can we do.
The days are dark and the shadows are long.:cool:[/QUOTE]
Oga sah, before nko! Hopefully da Hickman will deliver. But my Naija 419 sneses dey tingle ooooooo....!
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[QUOTE=PSYCHIATRIST;377317]Oga sah, before nko! Hopefully da Hickman will deliver. But my Naija 419 sneses dey tingle ooooooo....![/QUOTE]
Let the tears flow!
[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/14xclfq.jpg[/IMG]