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I suppose I'm that odd guy. I liked Hudlins first arc and that whole Blacktastic four arc but after that it quality dropped quickly IMO.
Incidentally I'm enjoying the hell out of Coates run. It's one of the most intelligent and thought provoking comics I had ever picked up. And people here are calling it a digrace? I shouldn't be suprised...your typical fan finds fault with anything that isn't your usual by the numbers superhero romp.
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[QUOTE=dreyga2000;2548605]I suppose I'm that odd guy. I liked Hudlins first arc and that whole Blacktastic four arc but after that it quality dropped quickly IMO.
Incidentally I'm enjoying the hell out of Coates run. It's one of the most intelligent and thought provoking comics I had ever picked up. And people here are calling it a digrace? I shouldn't be suprised...your typical fan finds fault with anything that isn't your usual by the numbers superhero romp.[/QUOTE]
Hudlin got me hooked on BP. After FF was Back to Wakanda with Killmonger and Skrull Invasion. Both quality stories. I think general consensus here is the the premise is fine, it is the characterizations of Tchalla and Wakanda that we have a problem with. How you go from Hudlins socialist utopia to third world is the mystery. Not Coates fault entirely. I've suspected Marvel has been trying to do this since Mayberry took over.
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Gillis Panther:Loved
Priest Panther:Thats My Panther
Hudlin's Panther: Fun and light hearted. Every hero deserved this treatment once in awhile
Liss Panther: #NotMyPanther
Hickman's Panther:Thought Provoking Panther. Tied with Gillis as my second favorite rendition.
Coates Panther: Work In Progress Panther. I am enjoying the world building. I am enjoying the overall humanity in the character and the people around him.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2548623]Hudlin got me hooked on BP. After FF was Back to Wakanda with Killmonger and Skrull Invasion. Both quality stories. I think general consensus here is the the premise is fine, it is the characterizations of Tchalla and Wakanda that we have a problem with. How you go from Hudlins socialist utopia to third world is the mystery. Not Coates fault entirely. I've suspected Marvel has been trying to do this since Mayberry took over.[/QUOTE]
The Skrull Invasion story (my alltime fave BP story) was actually Aarons, not Hudlin.
As far as Wakanda going from socialiset Utopia to third world... I think to a degree thats sort of what happens anytime you spend time in Wakanda outside the golden city. Yeah it looks like Star Wars in the nations Capital. But outside of that there are definately parts that look third world. There has always been that contrast to a degree.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2548623]Hudlin got me hooked on BP. After FF was Back to Wakanda with Killmonger and Skrull Invasion. Both quality stories. I think general consensus here is the the premise is fine, it is the characterizations of Tchalla and Wakanda that we have a problem with. [B]How you go from Hudlins socialist utopia to third world is the mystery. [/B]Not Coates fault entirely. I've suspected Marvel has been trying to do this since Mayberry took over.[/QUOTE]
To be fair much of this was established in Priest's run, while the main cities were a technological wonder, the majority of Wakanda's population (8 to 1) were tribalist who lived in villages and adhered to the old ways. In fact, the reason why the Dora Milaje existed was to prevent Tribal War from breaking out. Wakanda was depicted as always teetering on the brink of war and insurrection but T'Challa was able it hold to together. This fact was the focus of several arcs.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;2547724][ATTACH=CONFIG]44103[/ATTACH]
Sales are falling right now[/QUOTE]
Doesn't that happen for every book? And how low are sales any way?
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;2548746]Doesn't that happen for every book? And how low are sales any way?[/QUOTE]
Yep.
It's rare when a book increases sales unless you have the following happen
New creative team
Event tie in
Then it just a spike and usually dips again.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;2548749]Yep.
It's rare when a book increases sales unless you have the following happen
New creative team
Event tie in
Then it just a spike and usually dips again.[/QUOTE]
BP #5 managed to up in sales, like wayyyy up in sales, without any of those. From 73k to 83k.
To this day, I have no idea how that managed to happen. Some have said it's because of the last page of #4, but I'd say that could warrant a decent increase. A 9k-10k increase thought? That was nuts.
This whole run, sales wise, was nuts for a good 6-7 issues.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;2548746]Doesn't that happen for every book? And how low are sales any way?[/QUOTE]
As of the last chart, sales were around 39K. The first issue sold 250K, the second 77K:
[IMG]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uT2xUuAoSkg/WHpdojnDt9I/AAAAAAAAJVE/rdXMTbfEBSYM36G58B_wETYCecer6RyAACLcB/s1600/dec16sales2.JPG[/IMG]
(Graph courtesy of our own MindOfShadow)
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[QUOTE=Cville;2548623]How you go from Hudlins socialist utopia to third world is the mystery.[/QUOTE]
I have to play devil's advocate on this. How is current Wakanda third world?
Terrorist attacks? Can happen in any country, including developed countries. Hell, Wakanda went through worse than that via Morlun's attack, the Desturi's coup, Namor's flood, and it's eventual destruction at the hands of the black order.
Human Trafficking camps? Happens in so many countries today, including developed countries.
Instability? Wakanda has had stability issues since at least the Priest run. Then you have arcs like Enemy of the State, Doomwar, and indirectly the aftermath of AvX (those plotting against Shuri behind her back) highlighting that instability.
How parts of Wakanda look rural? That has always been the case. The cities may be futuristic, but the rural parts of Wakanda are very rural, and its a way of life that the locals there want. That rural aspect has been in every run that I've read.
What the Coates run has done is strip Wakanda of its utopian vibe (Wakanda isn't a utopia, but it def gave off that feeling to many readers). But third world? I don't think so.
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[QUOTE=dreyga2000;2548728]To be fair much of this was established in Priest's run, while the main cities were a technological wonder, the majority of Wakanda's population (8 to 1) were tribalist who lived in villages and adhered to the old ways. In fact, the reason why the Dora Milaje existed was to prevent Tribal War from breaking out. Wakanda was depicted as always teetering on the brink of war and insurrection but T'Challa was able it hold to together. This fact was the focus of several arcs.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and McGregor's run sort of suggested the same thing. Of course, both were relying on the original Kirby/Lee conception of Wakanda that Hudlin more or less rejected. I think it's fairly easy to reconcile the two with exactly this reasoning, but I do understand why people who like Hudlin's portrayal of Wakanda to think this current version is inconsistent.
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[QUOTE=dreyga2000;2548728]To be fair much of this was established in Priest's run, while the main cities were a technological wonder, the majority of Wakanda's population (8 to 1) were tribalist who lived in villages and adhered to the old ways. In fact, the reason why the Dora Milaje existed was to prevent Tribal War from breaking out. Wakanda was depicted as always teetering on the brink of war and insurrection but T'Challa was able it hold to together. This fact was the focus of several arcs.[/QUOTE]
Yup, which is why it's always been son irritating whenever people have claimed that Wakanda has always been depicted as a Utopia. We've constantly seen insurrections, had the Wakandan people question T'Challa, and seen T'Challa struggle to balance the old ways with modern Wakandan society. We've seen it so much that MONTHS before Coates was even announced to be writing Black Panther we'd been saying we were tired of this type of story. People were genuinely excited after Secret Wars ended and we were given a promise of Wakanda taking a leadership role with the rest of the world and taking humanity further into space than it had before. Ultmates gave us glimpses of that with the first issue (and the overall premise of the series), then we get to Coates book and Wakanda is a complete $#!%hole that doesn't have the basic infrastructure to take care of it's people.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2548899]I have to play devil's advocate on this. How is current Wakanda third world?
Terrorist attacks? Can happen in any country, including developed countries. Hell, Wakanda went through worse than that via Morlun's attack, the Desturi's coup, Namor's flood, and it's eventual destruction at the hands of the black order.
Human Trafficking camps? Happens in so many countries today, including developed countries.
Instability? Wakanda has had stability issues since at least the Priest run. Then you have arcs like Enemy of the State, Doomwar, and indirectly the aftermath of AvX (those plotting against Shuri behind her back) highlighting that instability.
How parts of Wakanda look rural? That has always been the case. The cities may be futuristic, but the rural parts of Wakanda are very rural, and its a way of life that the locals there want. That rural aspect has been in every run that I've read.
What the Coates run has done is strip Wakanda of its utopian vibe ([B]Wakanda isn't a utopia, but it def gave off that feeling to many readers[/B]). But third world? I don't think so.[/QUOTE]
No, it gave that vibe to non readers that refused to actually read any of the Black Panther series.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2548899]I have to play devil's advocate on this. How is current Wakanda third world?
Terrorist attacks? Can happen in any country, including developed countries. Hell, Wakanda went through worse than that via Morlun's attack, the Desturi's coup, Namor's flood, and it's eventual destruction at the hands of the black order.
Human Trafficking camps? Happens in so many countries today, including developed countries.
Instability? Wakanda has had stability issues since at least the Priest run. Then you have arcs like Enemy of the State, Doomwar, and indirectly the aftermath of AvX (those plotting against Shuri behind her back) highlighting that instability.
How parts of Wakanda look rural? That has always been the case. The cities may be futuristic, but the rural parts of Wakanda are very rural, and its a way of life that the locals there want. That rural aspect has been in every run that I've read.
What the Coates run has done is strip Wakanda of its utopian vibe (Wakanda isn't a utopia, but it def gave off that feeling to many readers). But third world? I don't think so.[/QUOTE]
I think for some people even though most of those elements existed in past stories, the more fantastical aspects of Wakanda and BP made up for them. In Coates run it's almost flipped. So while there's sci-fi elements in his story, at the forefront are the social unrest and mass abuse. And for a lot of people these are negative stereotypes that the general public has about Africa.
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;2548908]No, it gave that vibe to non readers that refused to actually read any of the Black Panther series.[/QUOTE]
Bottom line is, imho, current Wakanda isn't a third world country.
I don't like the trafficking camps, the terrorist attack, or some of the other stuff that went down in this run, but that doesn't make Wakanda a third world country, at least to me.