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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3606927]I hope you're not seriously suggesting BP did nothing but bark orders this issue... please tell me this isn't so?[/QUOTE]
Coates take on T'Challa and Wakanda has been nothiing more than a two year long desecration of the BP Mythos.
Speaking solely for myself, I called it from day one and stuck to my point as each and every issue dropped with T'Challa receiving very little (if any) focus unless said focus featured him acting like a complete moron and otherwise inneffective ruler.
His core abilities both old and new, were systematically farmed out to other characters even as most of his immediate supporting cast were given feats and prominence far beyond what would have expected for the titular character himself.
But get this, as long as Coates force fed Storm back into the self same BP mythos derided by detractors for supposedly diminishing the faux "goddesses" godliness, and wrote her above average, Coates was suddenly revered as the 2nd coming of Claremont.
After all's said and done, Coates reign of running rough shod over the BP mythos in favour of the X-men will end.
I remain thankful for the BP movie wherein the BP mythos are front and centre as oppossed to just being a convenient delivery system for mutant non-issues.
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Wow there was a lot said and a lot to digest.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3604663]I am always confused why certain fans are so against T'challa spreading his wings while Ororo can play hide the zuchinni with Logan, Old Logan, Forge, Gambit, or whoever else is the flavor of the month in the X-world.
..[/QUOTE]
Not sure what fans you are talking about. You will never ever see this fan shipping for her and logan, oml, forge or gambot. And Nakia who? Storm's is BP's first and true love according to 616. The movieverse is irrelevant.
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3604712]Storm held her own against two Dora's. That's something even Black Widow couldn't do. So Storm ain't got no issues throwing hands with them. I'd even go out on a limb and say sparing with T'Challa and the Dora Milaje army has increased her hand to hand prowess considerably. Storm is more than capable of holding her own with any of the Dora's. And as far as letting T'Challa spreading his wings? Storm told him this issue that he belongs to her. It's a wrap. Any chick attempting to get close to him only does so if she allows it. That means the Dora Milaje army is only allowed to breathe his air because she commands it.[/QUOTE]
Two doras don't have nothing against a Goddess! HA!!!
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3604975]I never said otherwise.
Just point out, using scans, that the Doras give her trouble, lots of trouble, if she can't use her powers. And that Malice would be an even bigger issue considering she is enhanced.[/QUOTE]
Chile... storm was being cordial because she was a "guest" in their country. You think a woman who can generate a F5 tornado instantaneously and has gone toe to toe without her powers with over 30 something ninjas would have lots of trouble against two dora? Come on. and now she is a goddess that is definitely a stretch.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3605063]Storm #172 Spoilers
[spoil]T'challa and Shuri delay the Adversary. Wakandans pray to storm. Storm beats Adversary. Apparently T'challa knew all along who was behind it or at least had a strong hunch. Kind of manipulated things behind the scenes was what was implied.
we also got another movie copy with the "fall out of the plane with bombs" thing
Season 2 had better single issues but the overall plot is a GD mess with no satisfying conclusion to the main story mind.
I am going to read the whole season straight to see if I missed something but I am very disappointed ATM about this season. I got my hopes up about a story about Wakandan Gods and answering a huge question since AvX... and instead got some increased action, rough art at times, movie nuggets, and Storm feats.[/QUOTE]
Tchalla was the character who without foresight and his vision and his plan, the battle would have been lost. You are so caught in wanting to see him beat the big bad guy that you are missing the whole point that Coates has shown him as being the brain, the nucleus that without this piece everything would go to hell.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3605251][img]https://i.imgur.com/CLIZ7QB.jpg?1[/img][/QUOTE]
Storm is a goddess of the lands now.
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3605257]Storm will forever be tied to the lands of Wakanda. As the Hadari Yao, she is an unofficial protector of all of Wakanda. This issue serves to shed greater light the events of X-men: RED. There is no removing Storm from Wakanda's mythos, try as you might.[/QUOTE]
hello and make it plain!!
[QUOTE=Cville;3605275]This would have been a good opportunity to break out the Tiger God pokeball. Would have required less effort. Lol[/QUOTE]
hmm no.. that wasn't the story that coates wanted to tell.
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3605309]T'Challa basically used his brain, common sense and some subtle manipulation to ensure that Storm would go balls to the wall to protect him and all of Wakanda. BP is the big winner here, not that we're counting wins.[/QUOTE]
thank you. why is this so hard to see?
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3605385]A writer who actually championed the main character would have had the title character, the one who was blessed by Bast, the one who's entire blood line has been blessed by Gods... the Wakandans would have prayed to HIM.
Or you know, he could have found the Gods, brought them back, and fought along side them to take down the Adversary. You could have had the Orisha and the prayers of the Wakandans power him up to almost Godhood. Just like how original orisha were created.
There are dozens of ways this story could have ended but Coates loves Storm. Which in itself isn't a big deal. Hell, this ending isn't the biggest deal in the world... if T'challa got similar feats anywhere in the last two years. Shuri has better moments than him.
Hell, I don't even really care that Storm got the shining moment. I'm more pissed that a year long question got shoved to the side with a shrug.[/QUOTE]
Tchalla is the nucleus.. Remember this.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3605566]So....
[spoil] Did the portal disintegrate Adversary/trap adversary and Storm simply pushed him in there or did the portal hold Adversary in place and Storm disintegrated him?
One of those things is a legit feat and the other is, well..... not [/spoil][/QUOTE]
storm was the power that nearly destroyed adversary not the portal closing.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3605318]If this were the end of Coates run, I'd have a problem with that. But if he's not leaving the book anytime soon then I won't necessarily lose sleep over whether he gets to it now or later.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3605331]He's the general in the situation. Any win for Wakanda is his win.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3605418]YOu don't necessarily want to give the main character that sort of power boost. If T'CHalla can power up to levels where he can slap around the adversary, then Killmonger and Man Ape might as well pack up and move to NY to bug Spider-Man or something. Because bother T'Challa becomes a waist of all their time.
But yes, the obvious resolution to this could have been to bring back the Wakandan gods. The fact that he didn't I would presume means that aspect of the story isn't over yet. Adversary took advantage of the situation.. but he didn't cause it. So he's not the legit main event. Something else is going on, and we don't know what that is yet.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3605443]This wasn't a side story. It just wasn't the whole story. Point being you don't necessarily get all the answers in the middle of a writers run. If he's got at least a year left (and theoretically as much as 3 years left), it's no unheard of to plant a few seeds which don't develop immediately.
Course, I'm just speculating... for all I know everything will be answered in the next issue. But the point being he's not done yet. Anything not resolved now has plenty of time and space to be resolved down the road.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3605532]The mystery of the missing God's clearly isn't a sob plot if it's spanning multiple seasons on the book. That's the point of not resolving everything now. There is a larger narrative being built.
The sub plot was Klaw. He was the red herring.
Adversary was built up as the big bad of this season ... but clearly something else is at work here behind the scenes.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3605732]Honestly I'm not sure what we saw T'Challa do against Galactus and Thanos is a whole lot different than what we saw against the Adversary. He didn't really law a finger on Galactus or Thanos ... he just came up with a strategy to beat them, with some help from his hero friends. Which is basically what he did with the Adversary.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=nj06;3606201]I liked this issue although I do feel like it ended too quickly. I would have liked a longer battle between the heroes and the Adversary. I do like how T'Challa's plan came together.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;3606172]Reposted from the Shuri thread.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3606250]The thing is that Storm isn't just some random X-Men that happened to show up for this story. She's a part of the supporting cast of the book too.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3606810]Honestly I'm hoping Adversay transplants into a Wakandan villain. I think T'Challa having a few very high threats is nice. And given Adversary only really showed up for one story (albeit a rather big event level one), I don't think the X books would miss him too much. With Storm being involved in Wakanda, it's a pretty easy transition anyways.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3606824]Shuri going one on one with her was one of my favorite parts of the story. She didn't have the raw power to stop him or even really hurt him, but her abilities made her a very difficult opponent to fight.
And yes, Zawavari getting some panel time against a relatively high level threat is a nice feat as well. Now Wakanda has an actual mage with a name. THat's kind of cool. Hopefully he's used more down the line.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;3606950]T'Challa used tech to slow the adversary down... the weaponry of his ship and the beads he threw which froze Adversary temporarioy (or whatever it did to him).
But really tech usually doesn't work in situations like this. Similar to when Morlun invaded Wakanda. Throwing red shirts with guns will just get the red shirts with guns killed. In true comic book fashion your best bet is always to throw meta's at the bad guy. If guys with guns worked, you wouldn't need super heroes.[/QUOTE]
I just had to quote all of your posts. I was going to go into a long explanation but as usual your posts are sensible, objective and spot on as always. It's very refreshing to see here and love to see BP fans here who do read and enjoy the book as I as a storm fan has. Thank you and please don't ever change.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3606298]According to some, he's dping an awesome job writing Storm as the most important part of the BP mythos.
The fact that he's reduced a 10'000 year old civilization to a rape camp infested backwater praying to a mutant with delusions of godhood, is an irony lost on those who bleated on about how Storm couldn't be a part of the aforementioned mythos due to her supposedly "belonging to a different franchise."
But then again, why should anyone be suprised at the excitement amongst some readers?
Coates has chronicled Storm performing mighty feats that her enthusiasts haven't seen in many a year.
[B]It's rather sad that these said aren't being written within the actual X-Men family of books that Storm is supposed to be a major player within.
[/B]
The hypocrisy is quite nauseating to say the least.[/QUOTE]
I actually agree with this but the X-offices don't care about anything with dark melanin. that is a sad reality.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3606462]I assume you mean [i]hasn't[/i] been seen in a decade? The answer is still clearly yes either way, though. I'm never a fan of just junking something because people haven't had ideas in the past. I'm also not sure "let's copy that idea from the movie" comes off as creating a new idea anyway.
People have been reading too much out of solicits for the past two years, so why not do that with a single panel?
My thoughts on this issue:
This issue had a very frenetic pace and I'm not sure it concluded clearly. I'm a little unclear on what exactly happened to power Storm. [B]That being said, we're seeing a very clear theme. The story isn't focusing on T'Challa the warrior, it's about T'Challa the leader. He's at his most effective when he's using his resources to win the day, even if he's manipulating those resources.[/B] For those who want show not tell, it could certainly be frustrating because we're told these people are doing these things because T'Challa is organizing them, but we're not seeing T'Challa physically do much. The whole point was that he's one step ahead of everyone and able to win the day.
[/QUOTE]
Totally agree with the bolded.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3606525]
I thought it was a major feat... but i glossed over the fact the sorcerers lead by Big Z did half the work... then storm hit him with a lightning bolt lol.
The storm ending needed more than one splash panel for something that was supposed to be a big deal.[/QUOTE]
I debunked a couple of these myths in the storm forum. It wasn't just a lightning bolt, it was divine lightning or a god blast. And Big Z was ineffective against him. All he and company did was open a portal that allowed storm to drop a extremely beaten Adversary into with her power. As tchalla said, without her they would have been made his slaves.
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3606952]Since when is faith and prayer the same thing?[/QUOTE]
Please ask this question again..
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3607074][B]No. It really wasn't. Tchalla has faced stronger opponents without needing a whole crew of people. And also. No Storm is not a part of the mythos. Until Coates can marry her to Tchalla and they have kids and he had full reign of her and the next writer also has full reign then no she is not. She is a guest, getting more feats then the title Character[/B][/QUOTE]
There are plenty of characters in BP's mythos who aren't married to him with children. If that were the sole criteria T'Challas mythos would be pretty darn small
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[QUOTE=Cville;3607028]Coates asked How does a man/king defeat a god.
I say however he did this.
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KsbgFoyyqy4/WW_91TFabhI/AAAAAAAAGks/O--2_Nm77Jkl1mCt43FGg92D8m-XExHWQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO015.jpg[/img]
[Img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0qjqnI7MFA4/WZT5zuuj18I/AAAAAAAABrU/DAmSC3kzLboo6xgPOO_xbwMuvE9MyPisQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO020.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
So crazy how ALL of T'Challa's power feats/appearances occured everywhere but within his own freaking solo books.
And some heads are seriously pondering as to why actual BP enthusiasts call out the blatant hypocrisy.
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@butterflykyss
Would you agree that the outcome of this story was to promote Storm?
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3607076]So you stopped replying to my posts directly? Lol ok
Anywho, why would it need to be established that Forge was Storm's ex-lover? The Adversary is attacking her current lover. And now for the story to make more sense to people that aren't inclined to like it in the first place, you're suggesting that Coates now bring Forge in anot her character to take panel space away from BP?[/QUOTE]
Need some help moving those goalposts?
YOU are the one who brought up the fact that "there's a pattern" of the Adversary attacking Ororo's lovers/fiancees/whatever. If that was the rationale for him attacking Wakanda, then YES, the fact that Forge is her ex-lover needed to be mentioned, at least in dialogue, so that readers who are unfamiliar with 30 year-old stories can understand it. It's called "good writing". ;)
Unless, of course, that had nothing to do with the story at all, and you are seeing a pattern that doesn't exist....
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[QUOTE=Cville;3607094]@butterflykyss
Would you agree that the outcome of this story was to promote Storm?[/QUOTE]
I'll answer. It's a clear and decisive "yes". But, again, Storm is promoted by way of T'Challa in more than one way. Hadari Yao is a Wakandan title given to her by Wakandan citizens. T'Challa IS Wakanda. She would not have this power, this storyline or this opportunity to capitalize 9n it if it weren't for BP.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3607105]I'll answer. It's a clear and decisive "yes". But, again, Storm is promoted by way of T'Challa in more than one way. Hadari Yao is a Wakandan title given to her by Wakandan citizens. T'Challa IS Wakanda. She would not have this power, this storyline or this opportunity to capitalize 9n it if it weren't for BP.[/QUOTE]
So Tchalla and Wakanda are her support staff in this story?
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[QUOTE=XPac;3607090]There are plenty of characters in BP's mythos who aren't married to him with children. If that were the sole criteria T'Challas mythos would be pretty darn small[/QUOTE]
[B]LOL that's your counter argument?? Really... Yes the BP Mythos has supporting cast members, people who the writer of said mythos has full control over. Got it? Ok good.
Now, Storm is not apart of the Black panther mythos, can you guess why? It's because the writer (and the following writers after) do not have full control over her. The simple fact that this "I am yours, only mine" nonsense os being thrown around and just as quickly in a x book Storm is shown swapping spit with an x Character (that happened just a few issue's ago) debunks your supposed idea that storm is apart of the Mythos.
Just like Thunderball and Eden, she is simply a guest in the series who has overstayed her welcome and has taken away much needed feats from the title character and actually supporting cast members
[/B]
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3607099]Need some help moving those goalposts?
YOU are the one who brought up the fact that "there's a pattern" of the Adversary attacking Ororo's lovers/fiancees/whatever. If that was the rationale for him attacking Wakanda, then YES, the fact that Forge is her ex-lover needed to be mentioned, at least in dialogue, so that readers who are unfamiliar with 30 year-old stories can understand it. It's called "good writing". ;)
Unless, of course, that had nothing to do with the story at all, and you are seeing a pattern that doesn't exist....[/QUOTE]
Lol Forge himself was not mentioned, but the original story is. BP himself acknowledges that Storm has prior history with Adversary. He also tells use that the Adversary knows Storm's power is the real threat to him. There's more than enough information available to come to that conclusion.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3607112]So Tchalla and Wakanda are her support staff in this story?[/QUOTE]
How'd you come to that conclusion when she feels manipulated into doing his bidding. Support staff don't manipulate the bosses into paying them. They're there to work.T'Challa is the only in wit a support staff here.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3607092]So crazy how ALL of T'Challa's power feats/appearances occured everywhere but within his own freaking solo books.
And some heads are seriously pondering as to why actual BP enthusiasts call out the blatant hypocrisy.[/QUOTE]
[B] In two years since Coates started writing BP. Evan's is the only writer who actually champions T'Challa in his own book and gave him actual feats to be proud of and can give Cats like MoS a long list of things to add to blog's noting all of his feats.. a book that started this year..... The Best that Tchalla looked in Coates Story, last Issue 171, STILL gave the KO blow to fraking Thunderball. TChallas most hated villain..... Let that sink in for a second[/B]
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3607120]How'd you come to that conclusion when she feels manipulated into doing his bidding. Support staff don't manipulate the bosses into paying them. They're there to work.T'Challa is the only in wit a support staff here.[/QUOTE]
What exactly was the manipulation? I would have said there was if he told her all the things she wanted to hear to get her help them called her a cab home.
But he played it pretty straight.
Did he force the portals to open in the area where she dispelled the storm?
Did he hold back his skills to create a situation where she "had" to save everyone?
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3607116]Lol Forge himself was not mentioned, but the original story is. BP himself acknowledges that Storm has prior history with Adversary. He also tells use that the Adversary knows Storm's power is the real threat to him. There's more than enough information available to come to that conclusion.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but that's utterly ridiculous. "I've battled him in the past" + "He's afraid of me" does not by any rational form of thought process suggest "he is attacking now because we used to be married".
By that token, that means Namor attacked Black Panther because of how close he is to Susan Storm. They have quite a lot of history (even more than Storm and the big A) and T'Challa is certainly a threat. It's perfectly clear....
ETA: Say, that's true of Doctor Doom, too!