-
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;372213]Do you have a scan of what Annhilus did with the prison that had in the Negative Zone:) The only consistent thing about a comicbook prison is the jailbreak.[/QUOTE]
Basically this. It's a comic book, of course they are going to keep them in their hideout. The only thing is instead of being NYC and the Baxter building and the break out occurring there, they are based in Wakanda. :shrugs:
-
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;371210]Are you saying that Namor is a mass muderer? :confused:[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I may be exaggerating the situation but killing billions of people is not heroic at all.
Can you tell me what did Namor do nd why he did it?
I thought T'challa was kind of insensitive. I thought he was like Cyclops. I was wrong.\
I am really happy for what T'challa did which was the right thing.
I consider it as one of the greatest moments for T'challa.
-
[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;372232]Perhaps I may be exaggerating the situation but killing billions of people is not heroic at all.
Can you tell me what did Namor do nd why he did it?
I thought T'challa was kind of insensitive. I thought he was like Cyclops. I was wrong.\
I am really happy for what T'challa did which was the right thing.
I consider it as one of the greatest moments for T'challa.[/QUOTE]
He gave a speech, and blew up an alternative Earth and all the innocent people in it.
(Sorry for the art, the last few pages were off, aka weren't Schiti)
[IMG]https://38.media.tumblr.com/c6d15beaa7bee5fd8c7a1e28000c9c1b/tumblr_n9j33dJd5x1r7he25o1_1280.png[/IMG]
-
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;372219]I don't have a issue with that is going on. It looks similar to what Priest did during Strum Und Drang with T'challa spilling his emotions to Storm, only this situation is far more dire and included his father. Or the situation with the Jabari Tribe and losing his mind. While T'chaka was right about mercy, he was wrong about committing planetary genocide for only Wakanda. There is no way non-fans or new fans that will view T'challa as heroic or a hero if that is the world view. To me this is Hickman trying to deconstruct that.
I mean different strokes for different folks. I don't see this as damaging at all. Damaging would be being killed off or placed in limbo for a decade--or replaced with someone else. Damaging would be actually pulling the trigger and have the new version of the "cure for cancer" that Wakanda is hold back from everyone just because or Pym slap Janet, or the Arm Bar idiocy.
I'm interested to see New Avengers #24 and the beginning of "Time runs out". I think they are using this to soft boot things.[/QUOTE]
Bro, does anything you've said here justify Hickman having T'Challa offer to pull the trigger, engage in speechified hand wringing before bitching out and crying like a baby starved of breast milk?
Doomwar closed with T'Challa suing for peace with Doom on some old can't we all just get along BS, Black Panther:Man Without Fear, opened with T'Challa once again abandoning his responsibilities to Wakanda to go clean up omebody elses mess and now in Hickman's New Avengers we have T'Challa making empty promises, posturing and then breaking down in tears whilst doing his best Dr Voodoo "I'm so sorry" impersonation.
I for one have grown tired of T'Challa's never ending stripping down especially when said stripping only applies to his abilities and technological advancements (Shadow Physics, Nowhere Room, Vibranium Weave suit/Soled boots) leaving a broken man prone to even more insecurities and flowing tears.
I got burned trusting Maberry so I'll be damned if I get burnt again blindly putting my faith in a writer who's yet to reveal exactly what being King of the Dead mean as far as clearly dileneated abilities are concerned, but has had no problem once again portraying T'Challa as the most dumped upon character in the MU.
This is T'Challa's lasting legacy moving forward.....
[IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/2s8k6m0.jpg[/IMG]
Testament to his stupidity as written by every writer post Hudlin.
-
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;372219]I don't have a issue with that is going on. It looks similar to what Priest did during Strum Und Drang with T'challa spilling his emotions to Storm, only this situation is far more dire and included his father. Or the situation with the Jabari Tribe and losing his mind. While T'chaka was right about mercy, he was wrong about committing planetary genocide for only Wakanda. There is no way non-fans or new fans that will view T'challa as heroic or a hero if that is the world view. To me this is Hickman trying to deconstruct that.
I mean different strokes for different folks. I don't see this as damaging at all. Damaging would be being killed off or placed in limbo for a decade--or replaced with someone else. Damaging would be actually pulling the trigger and have the new version of the "cure for cancer" that Wakanda is hold back from everyone just because or Pym slap Janet, or the Arm Bar idiocy.
I'm interested to see New Avengers #24 and the beginning of "Time runs out". I think they are using this to soft boot things.[/QUOTE]
I agree. The story isn't over. If it goes as bad as some suspect, then so be it; Hickman did more to hurt than help the character.
If not; if T'Challa is the one to solve this incursion issue, then nobody can say it wasn't hard earned.
For now, it's clear to me that Black Panther IS the emotional core of this story, and this is the Illuminati at it's lowest (well, maybe not if the Cabal really go on a rampage).
I'm very curious to see where it goes. If others are not, that's fine. For better or for worse, there is a clear emotional arc in play. And usually, that leads to great stories, or at least ones people remember beyond feats.
-
[QUOTE=Double 0;372254]He gave a speech, and blew up an alternative Earth and all the innocent people in it.
(Sorry for the art, the last few pages were off, aka weren't Schiti)
[IMG]https://38.media.tumblr.com/c6d15beaa7bee5fd8c7a1e28000c9c1b/tumblr_n9j33dJd5x1r7he25o1_1280.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I think it's safe to say that he is a mass murderer because that's what mass murderer means.
What he did is uncool.
-
[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;372276]I think it's safe to say that he is a mass murderer because that's what mass murderer means.
What he did is uncool.[/QUOTE]
Are we sure Namor isn't still possessed by the Phoenix Force?
-
I feel you Maj. But Doomwar--It was a story that at the end of the day is ONLY really talked about in this thread or on HEF. It's essentially been retconned and importance to anything was minimal. I agree with you about feeling burned. Every fan has that right to feel how they feel. But It could happen with every single story and as long as you read Marvel comics, that will be something that could happen. It's Marvel Style. Marvel has always been deconstructionist at it's core. Their best stories are deconstructionist. The problem with T'challa is writers not exactly building him back up--like deconstructed Stark, Bruce, Steve, Pete or Thor. We see they are killing Logan, they have again replaced Thor, only this time he loses an arm and his hammer. Steve is losing his title again and power and becoming a old man. Stark is being turned into a jerk aga. Pete just came off of being replaced. Marvel does this sort of thing. So the reconstructing can only start after this issue, really and the reconstructing seem like the real issue.
Namor giving a speech and then killed a planet full of innocent people after inciting the fight that ended with the murder of true heroes--isn't exactly a good look or heroic. T'challa showing humanity--a character who has the "he is a dick because he has the cure for cancer" thrown about isn't a bad thing. Namor in my opinion did what he had to do--but he is no different then anyone else, it was for preservation of self--not heroic at all or noble. It's no different than bending to Proxima, instead of fighting like T'challa and co did against Thanos minions. This is another shade of that same thing. He chooses to not face death.
It's all about the pay off. Yes, that is the future and yes you can get burned, but you can always get burned with any story. People got burned during Hudlin run too. The fanbase has always been split on what they like and don't. You are always going to get some kind of deconstructing in serial comics and especially Marvel comics.
Again, if T'challa solves the no-win scenario that would be his biggest feat ever--because Reed, Tony, Doom and such didn't solve it. He did and that's all Hickman really has to do. Maybe he won't, maybe he will. I'm just reading and enjoying what I can. Because there is never going to be a point were you like everything. That goes for Hudlin and Priest run, that had it's own issues as well.
-
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;372265]Bro, does anything you've said here justify Hickman having T'Challa offer to pull the trigger, engage in speechified hand wringing before bitching out and crying like a baby starved of breast milk?
Doomwar closed with T'Challa suing for peace with Doom on some old can't we all just get along BS, Black Panther:Man Without Fear, opened with T'Challa once again abandoning his responsibilities to Wakanda to go clean up omebody elses mess
[/QUOTE]
I admit I had my reservations about the premise of Most Dangerous Man Alive (Abandoning wakanda was the catalyst for Panther's Rage arguably the most arduous period of his life), in the end T'challa was in a pretty good spot in terms of characterization
[ATTACH=CONFIG]7261[/ATTACH]
-
[QUOTE=Double 0;372273]I agree. The story isn't over. If it goes as bad as some suspect, then so be it; Hickman did more to hurt than help the character.
If not; if T'Challa is the one to solve this incursion issue, then nobody can say it wasn't hard earned.
For now, it's clear to me that Black Panther IS the emotional core of this story, and this is the Illuminati at it's lowest (well, maybe not if the Cabal really go on a rampage).
I'm very curious to see where it goes. If others are not, that's fine. For better or for worse, there is a clear emotional arc in play. And usually, that leads to great stories, or at least ones people remember beyond feats.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. This is pretty much how I view it. Otherwise you will never enjoy a story. The point about it being hard earned is a good one. If he does that, then like you said--no one can say it was easy, or mary sue or other nonsense.
It will clearly change T'challa. The mercy speech by his father and then seeing the things Namor did is impactful and good stuff to use for T'challa. He's setting it up so T'challa is going to struggle with mercy (it seems). His father words are going to haunt him.
Hell, T'challa stalemated Batman, where Hulk flat out lost to Superman. T'challa clearly had morals on, seeing how he viewed GS as heroes.
Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing what is next. I don't have a clue.
[img]http://38.media.tumblr.com/18f57efc38febceb1054851f8eecb6ef/tumblr_n8g9mocx0t1sk2q1ao1_500.jpg[/img]
This is the end of the Illuminati.
Namor joining the Cabal is touchy, because he's going straight villain. It's going to take a lot for him to get redemption.
-
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;372290]Are we sure Namor isn't still possessed by the Phoenix Force?[/QUOTE]
I don't know but I think he is no longer possessed by the phoenix force.
-
I am very miff on the whole T'challa situation.
T'Challa has always been shown to make the hard choice.
Even when no one else would.
despite his own feelings he's always done what need to be done.
doesn't matter if it would make him look like a tyrant, call him a murderer , what was needed to be done got done
so this issue has me cringing very hard.
almost like a very bad flavor in my mouth that i kinda want to spit out
The T'Challa i know would have said nothing nor volunteer ,if he was not going to pull the trigger.
If he said he was going to do it, it would have been done, and he would have lived with the consequence.
for the lack of a better word ,this issue of NA21 was a bitchout T'Challa.
I don't like him, plz get him out of my face.
-
I wonder how long it will take The NA to figure out how to solve the incursion issue.
or are they to busy arguing to never really achieve anything and just keep blowing up plant's till the mean time. then argue some more about it.
-
The good news is that only about 40,000 consumers saw T'challa cry his heart out... ;)
[url]http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2014/2014-06.html[/url]
Although it could be 39,000 for this month if the sales are consistently dropping...
Ever watching those sales figures I get it that Batman can do 130,000 as a standalone solo character but when Harley Quinn can do 93,000 as a rogues gallery sidekick something is seriously wrong with this picture... Harley Quinn could just as easily be Princess Zonda, Nightshade or Malice but whatevs!
As this Slow Burn conflict plays out this book is hemorrhaging fans left and right as if to say loud and clear "We stopped caring many issues ago what else you got!"
A three year plan was instituted whereby T'challa was supposed to be built up and made more sellable and instead writer's fatigue has set in and dude is arguing with the ghost of his dad about what he should do with himself... Aint he a grown @$$ man by now able to make tough decisions on his own cut the apron strings already!
You will notice that even as actors like Chadwick Boseman or John Boyega are in the Who Will Play Black Panther Derby that not one person bothers to speak about the current comic book that T'challa is in they just stay focused on the movie and ignore the ongoing comic books altogether!
If you took all the other ensemble characters out of New Avengers and made this a solo Black Panther book those sales numbers would drop drastically because it is hard to keep the attention of people with such slow character development that reverts back to soap opera crybaby stuff!
If you told me that 20 plus issues in it would come down to T'challa in tears over a decision that super heroes make every other week I would have bailed out issue #1 and kept it moving!
Planets get destroyed all the time or eaten by Galactus for snacks and dude is now in tears???
TEARS????
Just think of the planet as being full of characters like those extra nameless security persons that get killed on Star Trek hanging out with the main cast members who are untouchable and it should be easier to do since they were never ever going to be used in the main story anyway!
How hard is this again...
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBAZGtBfcY4[/url]
Just think of all the Jar Jar Binks that you killed and it gets easier to do every time and save the tears for bigger and better things later on!
President Obama a real life character does not cry when he pulls the trigger...
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlOIy6QEbes[/url]
Point Man: "STOP THE RANGE ROVER SIR... I think I'm going to cry... Or give a pyrrhic speech... Or threaten someone knowing full well I have no actual plans to follow through on those threats... Wait a minute my deceased daddy just text messaged me I have to take this call please hold!"
-
The T'challa you know never had decide whether or not to kill billions of people. He has never had to make a choice like that.
So his reaction here is not surprising especially for a superhero.
looks like Flex is bringing up sales for a book he's not reading or buying again *sighs*