-
[QUOTE=Ekie;2340961]Interviewer: How do you feel about where T'challa is at the end of your run?
Coats: "I feel sorry for T'challa"[/QUOTE]
Wait, is this real life or ?
[img]https://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Dr+jimmy+rustles+_c9d0a1309af761b08530b74c6f615ec2.jpg[/img]
-
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2340978][IMG]https://m.popkey.co/555a8d/M7Xzz.gif[/img]
[B]Well so far no one in the MU has yet acknowledged he isn't king still so it may not end up with him losing the crown. [B][U]Though there maybe a parliament put in place[/U][/B][/B][/QUOTE]
I'm calling it now: constitutional monarchy ala UK, with parliament led by Changamire.
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2340982]Wait, is this real life or ?
[img]https://static1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Dr+jimmy+rustles+_c9d0a1309af761b08530b74c6f615ec2.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
It's real. I'd have to go back about 40 or 50 pages to find the interview but this dude actually said this about a character he's supposed to be promoting and is writing.
-
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2341001]I'm calling it now: constitutional monarchy ala UK, with parliament[SIZE=5][B] led by Changamire.[/B][/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/398059/team-america-puke-o.gif[/img]
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2341007][img]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/398059/team-america-puke-o.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/Z9OGuQyrfHAE8/giphy.gif[/IMG]
-
[QUOTE=Ekie;2341003]It's real. I'd have to go back about 40 or 50 pages to find the interview but this dude actually said this about a character he's supposed to be promoting and is writing.[/QUOTE]
[B]I remember vaguely that interview, however, i think the context may be a little off, [/B]
-
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2341348][B]I remember vaguely that interview, however, i think the context may be a little off, [/B][/QUOTE]
The context was quite clear and all up in the place.
-
EFX is gonna be doing Black Panther helmet replicas.
[IMG]http://news.toyark.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/10/NYCC2016-EFX-028.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://news.toyark.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/10/NYCC2016-EFX-029.jpg[/IMG]
-
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2341376]The context was quite clear and all up in the place.[/QUOTE]
[B] Doesn't excuse anything. But I don't remember of it was that direct. Either way it still doesn't look good for the King.[/B]
-
[QUOTE=Ekie;2340961]Interviewer: How do you feel about where T'challa is at the end of your run?
Coats: "I feel sorry for T'challa"[/QUOTE]
Given how things ended, I wouldn't be shocked if Priest and Hudlin felt sorry for T'Challa at the end of their runs too.
Really the only BP writer that left him in a good place on his way out was Liss.
-
[QUOTE=XPac;2341507]Given how things ended, I wouldn't be shocked if Priest and Hudlin felt sorry for T'Challa at the end of their runs too.
Really the only BP writer that left him in a good place on his way out was Liss.[/QUOTE]
Priest returned him to status quo and there is no comparison whir how Priest wrote T'challa and the crap Coates is writing
-
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2341900]Priest returned him to status quo and there is no comparison whir how Priest wrote T'challa and the crap Coates is writing[/QUOTE]
At the end of Priests run he still had a suppossedly incurable brain anerysm and hadn't gotten his old job back from Killmonger. He did return to status quo, but that was off panel after Priests run had ended.
-
[QUOTE=XPac;2341930]At the end of Priests run he still had a suppossedly incurable brain anerysm and hadn't gotten his old job back from Killmonger. He did return to status quo, but that was off panel after Priests run had ended.[/QUOTE]
There's an old saying 'A good writer is the character's worst enemy', and that was true of Priest
-
so T'Challa dies at the end of Coates run and Storm is the Queen of Wakanda. Going by how things have been going for me recently this will probably happened followed by a Trump presidency and Armageddon right on schedule :p
-
[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;2341944]There's an old saying 'A good writer is the character's worst enemy', and that was true of Priest[/QUOTE]
It'a funny how that works.
-
Coates has done the IMPOSSIBLE! He surpassed Michael Brian Bendis as my most HATED writer in Marvel comics. He has actually surpassed Avengers vs X-Men, Hickman and many others in the molestation of Black Panther and his mythos. He did all of this as a BLACK male writer. Amazing...
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2340755]How did this
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JZM0hRJ.jpg[/img]
turn to this
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pqhJTZb.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Disgusting...
-
-
[QUOTE=XPac;2341930]At the end of Priests run he still had a suppossedly incurable brain anerysm and hadn't gotten his old job back from Killmonger. He did return to status quo, but that was off panel after Priests run had ended.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't change what I said. And there is simply no comparison. Priest did deconstruction the correct way. T'challa was still bad ass. Coates version simply isn't.
-
[QUOTE=KidStranglehold;2342282]Coates has done the IMPOSSIBLE! He surpassed Michael Brian Bendis as my most HATED writer in Marvel comics. He has actually surpassed Avengers vs X-Men, Hickman and many others in the molestation of Black Panther and his mythos. He did all of this as a BLACK male writer. Amazing...[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Smfh.
-
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2342516]It doesn't change what I said. And there is simply no comparison. Priest did deconstruction the correct way. T'challa was still bad ass. Coates version simply isn't.[/QUOTE]
I'd say it changes the part where you said Priest returned him to status quo.
-
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2342516]It doesn't change what I said. And there is simply no comparison. Priest did deconstruction the correct way. T'challa was still bad ass. Coates version simply isn't.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I'd use the word deconstruction to describe Priest's run. Having bad things happen to the hero isn't actually "deconstruction". If anything he did the opposite. He took what worked about the original premise and added to it. He expanded on the core mythos. We got new characters and new concepts that built on what was already there.
-
A character that had only been regulary published for less than ten years consecutively doesn't get to have a status quo.
They can't look at a book that got cancelled and go "OK, let's do more exactly like this!"
If you wanna see another example of this in Marvel look at Dr. Strange. Classic Doc was uber powerful.
Doesn't matter. Doc hadn't been able to sell a comic in years. So Aaron can ignore the powerup that
Doc may have gotten from Hickman in New Avengers.
They already know powerful Doc Strange don't sell anymore. Aaron gets to reimagine him any way he pleases.
This is also why every version of Thunderbolts is wildly different for the last.
-
[QUOTE=XPac;2342528]I'd say it changes the part where you said Priest returned him to status quo.[/QUOTE]
[B]He most certainly did, before priest, T'challa was mostly seen as a guy in a cat suit getting beating up left and right and showing how "Noble" he was. Priest turned him into a noble badass who took care of business and showed why he wasn't one to be messed with. He was the smartest guy in the room, he was always prepared, and he knewhow to make most everyone underestimate him before they got burned. Turned his country into the most technologically advanced nation on earth and had some amazing tech. If you don't think that isn't returning him to status quo then i dunno what to tell you. [/B]
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2340755]How did this
[img]http://i.imgur.com/JZM0hRJ.jpg[/img]
turn to this
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pqhJTZb.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
That's more on the artist than anything lol
-
Priests ending was garbage and is one of the reason ongoings like they used to be suck and why I like the more seasonal approach
-
[QUOTE=UltimateTy;2342699]That's more on the artist than anything lol[/QUOTE]
its awesome having an artist who does no homework!
next up, T'challa in skinny jeans!
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2342700]Priests ending was garbage and is one of the reason ongoings like they used to be suck and why I like the more seasonal approach[/QUOTE]
[B]It wasn't the best ending, but it ended with him and Kasper teaming up to go take Erik. I agree seasonal arcs are the way to go because it lets you finish up the story[/B]
-
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2342729][B]It wasn't the best ending, but it ended with him and Kasper teaming up to go take Erik. I agree seasonal arcs are the way to go because it lets you finish up the story[/B][/QUOTE]
Ugh
I understand the Kasper Cole thing was forced on him so I am trying to be nice.
But... that "teaming up against Killmonger" thing just doesn't jive with the rest of the run.
The only way for T'challa to stop killmonger (ie Get his title back) would be a tribal challenge. t'challa shouldn't even have been in the black panther habit as soon as Killmonger woke up. He was still Black Panther at that point, not T'challa.
-
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2342683][B]He most certainly did, before priest, T'challa was mostly seen as a guy in a cat suit getting beating up left and right and showing how "Noble" he was. Priest turned him into a noble badass who took care of business and showed why he wasn't one to be messed with. He was the smartest guy in the room, he was always prepared, and he knewhow to make most everyone underestimate him before they got burned. Turned his country into the most technologically advanced nation on earth and had some amazing tech. If you don't think that isn't returning him to status quo then i dunno what to tell you. [/B][/QUOTE]
If Priest ended the book with T'Challa having an incurable brain aneurysm and having still not regained his title and job to Killmone then yeah ... I would say Priest did not return him to status quo. Status quo is Black Panther being Black Panther.
The brain aneurysm being cured and T'Challa regaining the title of Black Panther from Killmonger occurred off panel after his book ended.
So yes he did return to status quo, but it wasn't actually Priest that did it. Priest left him in a precarious position on his way out.
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2342735]Ugh
I understand the Kasper Cole thing was forced on him so I am trying to be nice.
But... that "teaming up against Killmonger" thing just doesn't jive with the rest of the run.
The only way for T'challa to stop killmonger (ie Get his title back) would be a tribal challenge. t'challa shouldn't even have been in the black panther habit as soon as Killmonger woke up. He was still Black Panther at that point, not T'challa.[/QUOTE]
Certainly the ending of Priests run needed more resolution. Because he was telling Kaspersky story, he lcaked the panel space to adequately resolve T'Challas. He was kinda left hangong, and no one really bothered to pick up the threads afterwards.
That is an unfortunatly klunky ending to what is otherwise almost universally considered best BP run.
-
[QUOTE=XPac;2342784]Certainly the ending of Priests run needed more resolution. Because he was telling Kaspersky story, he lcaked the panel space to adequately resolve T'Challas. He was kinda left hangong, and no one really bothered to pick up the threads afterwards.
That is an unfortunatly klunky ending to what is otherwise almost universally considered best BP run.[/QUOTE]
I don't 100% blame him really. He was stuck in a VIn Diesel plot he didn't really want to do, and then got cancelled so he had to wrap up 2 storylines as fast as possible.
Gift and a Curse with Priest. He had these very long, complicated storylines and so many moving parts taht there was no way he could end it satisfactory instantly.
Writers these days have a much easier job in that sense. Coates got 12 issues out of the box. There was no "eh, after 3 issues we will see how it goes..."
And then its further compounded by saying, "sure Reggie, go ahead and tell your mini outside of continuity" and then going "oh **** this is dope... CANON BITCHES!!!"
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2342790]I don't 100% blame him really. He was stuck in a VIn Diesel plot he didn't really want to do, and then got cancelled so he had to wrap up 2 storylines as fast as possible.
Gift and a Curse with Priest. He had these very long, complicated storylines and so many moving parts taht there was no way he could end it satisfactory instantly.
Writers these days have a much easier job in that sense. Coates got 12 issues out of the box. There was no "eh, after 3 issues we will see how it goes..."[/QUOTE]
SOME writers have an easier job these days. Not everyone gets a granted 12 issues lime Coates.
I do think most in this era at least understand that runs are written for trade so you at least have 4-6 issue blocks to work with. But really most writers on most books should probably be prepared for their book to be cancelled by the 6th issue and plan accordingly. Unless you're writing a really established franchise.
-
if starbrand and nightmask can make it to six, anyone can lol
-
[QUOTE=XPac;2342763]If Priest ended the book with T'Challa having an incurable brain aneurysm and having still not regained his title and job to Killmone then yeah ... I would say Priest did not return him to status quo. Status quo is Black Panther being Black Panther.
The brain aneurysm being cured and T'Challa regaining the title of Black Panther from Killmonger occurred off panel after his book emded.
So yes he did return to status quo, but it wasn't actually Priest that did it. Priest left him in a precarious position on his way out.[/QUOTE]
Which begs the question: Is the title of Black Panther seperate from the title of King or are they one and the same?
If they are separate, then Killmongers' victory only gets him the cat suit, the right to take the herb (which is effectively rigged under Priest) and that is it.
I guess Monger'd "only" be the equivalent to the Pope.
If they are the same, then potentially any sucker with a good right hook could potentially end up running the place. Which is one more reason Priest
assumed that the challege had to be rigged somehow. It's not a Monarchy if you can't ensure that your offspring inherit the throne.
That, or you have to buy that T'Challa' ancestors have an 1000+ year winning streak going over all comers.
Or Bast has favored T'Challa's line over everybody else in Wakanda. Since as far as we know there's
never been a Black Panther that wasn't from the royal line.
-
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2342809]Which begs the question: Is the title of Black Panther seperate from the title of King or are they one and the same?
If they are separate, then Killmongers' victory only gets him the cat suit, the right to take the herb (which is effectively rigged under Priest) and that is it.
I guess Monger'd "only" be the equivalent to the Pope.
If they are the same, then potentially any sucker with a good right hook could potentially end up running the place. Which is one more reason Priest
assumed that the challege had to be rigged somehow. It's not a Monarchy if you can't ensure that your offspring inherit the throne.
That, or you have to buy that T'Challa' ancestors have an 1000+ year winning streak going over all comers.
Or Bast has favored T'Challa's line over everybody else in Wakanda. Since as far as we know there's
never been a Black Panther that wasn't from the royal line.[/QUOTE]
Priest 100% established them as two separate things.
That has been ignored though and retonned by Hudlin.
If they were separate... T'challa would have gotten the throne back during Deadliest of the Species when he woke up. He would have lost the BP title (SHuri had it) btu he still would have been king.
MCU separated them once again though, judging from Civil War anyway
-
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2342809]Which begs the question: Is the title of Black Panther seperate from the title of King or are they one and the same?
If they are separate, then Killmongers' victory only gets him the cat suit, the right to take the herb (which is effectively rigged under Priest) and that is it.
I guess Monger'd "only" be the equivalent to the Pope.
If they are the same, then potentially any sucker with a good right hook could potentially end up running the place. Which is one more reason Priest
assumed that the challege had to be rigged somehow. It's not a Monarchy if you can't ensure that your offspring inherit the throne.
That, or you have to buy that T'Challa' ancestors have an 1000+ year winning streak going over all comers.
Or Bast has favored T'Challa's line over everybody else in Wakanda. Since as far as we know there's
never been a Black Panther that wasn't from the royal line.[/QUOTE]
You gotta give props to T'Challa family. Ethics and fairness aside, the system of essentially having a rigged contest where any credible threat ends up getting poisoned (Ala Killmonger) is pretty darn clever. Even if potential challengers win they lose. It's shady but if you're sustaining a monarchy for thousands of years you'really likely going to need to do shady things.
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2342817]Priest 100% established them as two separate things.
That has been ignored though and retonned by Hudlin.
If they were separate... T'challa would have gotten the throne back during Deadliest of the Species when he woke up. He would have lost the BP title (SHuri had it) btu he still would have been king.
MCU separated them once again though, judging from Civil War anyway[/QUOTE]
And I suppose that's a potential end game for Coates. Separating the throne from the BP title so that T'Challa is free to play super hero while someone else (maybe Shuri) runs things.
-
[QUOTE=XPac;2342821]You gotta give props to T'Challa family. Ethics and fairness aside, the system of essentially having a rigged contest where any credible threat ends up getting poisoned (Ala Killmonger) is pretty darn clever. Even if potential challengers win they lose. It's shady but if you're sustaining a monarchy for thousands of years you'really likely going to need to do shady things.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;2342821]You gotta give props to T'Challa family. Ethics and fairness aside, the system of essentially having a rigged contest where any credible threat ends up getting poisoned (Ala Killmonger) is pretty darn clever. Even if potential challengers win they lose. It's shady but if you're sustaining a monarchy for thousands of years you'really likely going to need to do shady things.[/QUOTE]
Last time this came up, I thought about it too much. It was a weird scene, and trying to make it work with the rest of BP history and future comics is some fun fan fic. Some reasons could be...
1) The Royal Line is shady. The tournament was nothing but a way to give the population the illusion that they can actually take out the royal line.
This theory kinda sucks just because... well its shady. T'challa seem to have no idea it was going to happen and was basically shamed when Killmonger died and he was BP by default. And T'challa was seemingly going to give Kasper the herb next.
2) Killmonger is an idiot. Dude gets some random root, he has Hunter egging him on, and he just downs that thing like its a damn Oreo. The root could have easily been compromised by Hunter, who had a fanatical relationship with Wakanda and the royal line and was the one egging Killmonger on from the very beginning. Killmonger is the ONLY person we have seen have an adverse effect to the root. Pre-Priest, it took a ceremony to take the root and it had to be "properly prepared."
3) Whatever Killmonger did to enhance himself and/or come back from the dead more than once reacted badly with the root. The only confirmation that "the herb is poisonous" is Killmonger himself saying it. How would he figure that out (he was described as clever, not a genius. Remember, he needed a monkey to help him in Hudlin's run) yet T'challa couldn't? The royal line could take it, Spider-Man took it with 0 effects. Zawadi or whatever apparently took it with zero effects.
4) Bast punished him, not the herb. The herb in HUdlin's run took you in front of bast to be judged and it was Bast who gave you the powers. I believe it was mentioned in pre-priest runs about being "worthy" of the herb (id hav eto go check my notes on the blog and I can't on this computere to be sure). So, Bast being a weird vindictive god, put Killmonger in a coma, we just didn't see it on panel. She chose coma instead of death so that T'challa could some day regain his honor and as a way to try and humble Killmonger
5) no one at marvel cares about the history of Wakanda so they just let the writers do w.e the hell they want
-
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2342847]Last time this came up, I thought about it too much. It was a weird scene, and trying to make it work with the rest of BP history and future comics is some fun fan fic. Some reasons could be...
1) The Royal Line is shady. The tournament was nothing but a way to give the population the illusion that they can actually take out the royal line.
This theory kinda sucks just because... well its shady. T'challa seem to have no idea it was going to happen and was basically shamed when Killmonger died and he was BP by default. And T'challa was seemingly going to give Kasper the herb next.
2) Killmonger is an idiot. Dude gets some random root, he has Hunter egging him on, and he just downs that thing like its a damn Oreo. The root could have easily been compromised by Hunter, who had a fanatical relationship with Wakanda and the royal line and was the one egging Killmonger on from the very beginning. Killmonger is the ONLY person we have seen have an adverse effect to the root. Pre-Priest, it took a ceremony to take the root and it had to be "properly prepared."
3) Whatever Killmonger did to enhance himself and/or come back from the dead more than once reacted badly with the root. The only confirmation that "the herb is poisonous" is Killmonger himself saying it. How would he figure that out (he was described as clever, not a genius. Remember, he needed a monkey to help him in Hudlin's run) yet T'challa couldn't? The royal line could take it, Spider-Man took it with 0 effects. Zawadi or whatever apparently took it with zero effects.
4) Bast punished him, not the herb. The herb in HUdlin's run took you in front of bast to be judged and it was Bast who gave you the powers. I believe it was mentioned in pre-priest runs about being "worthy" of the herb (id hav eto go check my notes on the blog and I can't on this computere to be sure). So, Bast being a weird vindictive god, put Killmonger in a coma, we just didn't see it on panel. She chose coma instead of death so that T'challa could some day regain his honor and as a way to try and humble Killmonger
5) no one at marvel cares about the history of Wakanda so they just let the writers do w.e the hell they want[/QUOTE]
From a narrative standpoint, it's mostly likely #1 or #4.
We've known that the royal family doesn't always consist of the noblest of individuals. T'Chaka founded the Hatute Zeraze to do the dirty work of the kingdom. So it's entirely possible that some shadiness, known or unknown to some or all of the royal family, is present, including as far as the herb is concerned.
#4 is probably the best compromise however. Fits pretty well too.