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[QUOTE=C_haos;3111103]Looking at these sales charts and what BP & The Crew outsold that's still kicking I think Marvel dropped that axe too quick. But then again I don't know all the cost associated with the book. Still think it would have been better as GN out the gate[/QUOTE]
Gotta pay for the people Coates brings with him. Might have lasted longer if they used writers already on payroll.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3111093]Steve failed to invade Wakanda two times in a row prior to him finally suceedind, with T'Challa verbally puking him in front of the whole UN in the process.
And Steve needed all the fragments to advance the story ... that was end game. Steve had to beat them eventually. The fact that Steve lost two out of three occasions still gives Wakanda it's props while giving Hydra the win it needed at this point in the story.[/QUOTE]
[B]Failed off panel, so therefore you use the tie ins to show Wakanda punking Steves army and having T'Challa with a council talking about now That he made the declaration, challenging Steve and inspiring other nations to do the same, what they're next plan will be because, as a head of state, he knows Steve will have to respond to keep up power and they need to be ready. It sets up an interesting dynamic and shoes Uber prep Tchalla. But again it requires Coates to care and he only cares about his bitch made Tchalla. Not incontinuity Tchalla. [/B]
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[QUOTE=Cville;3111156]Gotta pay for the people Coates brings with him. Might have lasted longer if they used writers already on payroll.[/QUOTE]
[B] Nah it still would of failed Because it was an extremely niche book, featuring a cast that was mostly arleady being used in another title and being used better and the book itself had a boring premise and the main draw (Tchalla)
was sidelined for Characters with far inferior Star power.. His disdain for Tchalla is extremely obvious [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3111174][B]Failed off panel, so therefore you use the tie ins to show Wakanda punking Steves army and having T'Challa with a council talking about now That he made the declaration, challenging Steve and inspiring other nations to do the same, what they're next plan will be because, as a head of state, he knows Steve will have to respond to keep up power and they need to be ready. It sets up an interesting dynamic and shoes Uber prep Tchalla. But again it requires Coates to care and he only cares about his bitch made Tchalla. Not incontinuity Tchalla. [/B][/QUOTE]
Some writers chose to roe into the event, and some didn't. That's just how it is.
I do agree there's potential stories to tell from tying into events. But I also don't think writers necessarily should have their own books being hijacked telling someone else's story.
There's no right or wrong answer here. If a book wants to toe into events cool. If a book prefers to do its own thing, that's cool too.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;3111119]All of it happened. Kobik didn't undo things until the very end.
Now the problem becomes Wakanda under attack again by a foreign nation. T'Challa get's blamed again? What will be the response from this new gov't. Nothing.[/QUOTE]
If everything was undone at the end, nobody is to blame I would think. I stopped following SE midway through
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[QUOTE=C_haos;3111249]If everything was undone at the end, nobody is to blame I would think. I stopped following SE midway through[/QUOTE]
Everything was undone at the end of Secret Wars too. Some Wakandans still blamed T'Challa.
Las Vegas is still damaged at the end of Secret Empire. Kobik didn't undo that and HydraCap is still alive.
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[QUOTE=C_haos;3111249]If everything was undone at the end, nobody is to blame I would think. I stopped following SE midway through[/QUOTE]
I don't think there's a whole lot of fault you lay on T'Challa for SE.
I suppose if someone REALLY wanted to point fingers, they could argue had T'Challa given the cube fragment to Stark and the other heroes, Wakanda would have been left alone.
But really, he was just trying to protect the cube fragment. Yes Wakanda took a hit there, but in the bigger picture what he did made sense. No one, Wakanda included, benefits from Hydra getting the cube.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3111093]Steve failed to invade Wakanda two times in a row prior to him finally suceedind, with T'Challa verbally puking him in front of the whole UN in the process.
And Steve needed all the fragments to advance the story ... that was end game. Steve had to beat them eventually. The fact that Steve lost two out of three occasions still gives Wakanda it's props while giving Hydra the win it needed at this point in the story.[/QUOTE]
Cap didn't need all the fragments to advance the story, not really. Him trying to go through with his agenda with a malfunctioning Macguffin could have easily provided the escalation needed for the climax, plus demonstrate how he's falling off his rocker.
My biggest problem is how Spencer got the fragment back, by basically replaying the same damn trick they used with Shield. That's some amazing lack of creativity there.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3111187][B] Nah it still would of failed Because it was an extremely niche book, featuring a cast that was mostly arleady being used in another title and being used better and the book itself had a boring premise and the main draw (Tchalla)
was sidelined for Characters with far inferior Star power.. His disdain for Tchalla is extremely obvious [/B][/QUOTE]
The book still not the lowest selling niche book. Eden Misty and Storm aren't being used anywhere else better
[QUOTE=Cville;3111156]Gotta pay for the people Coates brings with him. Might have lasted longer if they used writers already on payroll.[/QUOTE]
Idk Harvey rotated issues and I would think guest writers especially first time wouldn't cost that much
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[QUOTE=XPac;3111243]Some writers chose to roe into the event, and some didn't. That's just how it is.
I do agree there's potential stories to tell from tying into events. But I also don't think writers necessarily should have their own books being hijacked telling someone else's story.
There's no right or wrong answer here. If a book wants to toe into events cool. If a book prefers to do its own thing, that's cool too.[/QUOTE]
[B]Yes abd if these claims people love to make of Coates making Tchalla a Major like everyone claims he would of tied in. Plain and simple[/B]
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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;3111283]Cap didn't need all the fragments to advance the story, not really. Him trying to go through with his agenda with a malfunctioning Macguffin could have easily provided the escalation needed for the climax, plus demonstrate how he's falling off his rocker.
My biggest problem is how Spencer got the fragment back, by basically replaying the same damn trick they used with Shield. That's some amazing lack of creativity there.[/QUOTE]
I disagree. For big stories you always at SOME point have to create the illusion that the villain will win (even though we all know they won't ). It hurts the finale if the villain can't get to that point. And for this story winning meant the cube fragments.
It was fine for Wakanda to get some early wins over Hydra, but eventually they needed to get to the point where the badges looked like they were going to win.
As for the WAY it was done ... I'd like to think it was done in a way to show that Wakanda couldn't be beaten through sheer force alone. It it was the same tactic used against SHIELD, but the method he used apparently was different. So it's not necessarily something T'Challa could be prepared for.
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[QUOTE=C_haos;3111289]The book still not the lowest selling niche book. Eden Misty and Storm aren't being used anywhere else better
Idk Harvey rotated issues and I would think guest writers especially first time wouldn't cost that much[/QUOTE]
[B]It was still a poorly made niche[/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;3111369]I disagree. For big stories you always at SOME point have to create the illusion that the villain will win (even though we all know they won't ). It hurts the finale if the villain can't get to that point. And for this story winning meant the cube fragments.
It was fine for Wakanda to get some early wins over Hydra, but eventually they needed to get to the point where the badges looked like they were going to win.
As for the WAY it was done ... I'd like to think it was done in a way to show that Wakanda couldn't be beaten through sheer force alone. It it was the same tactic used against SHIELD, but the method he used apparently was different. So it's not necessarily something T'Challa could be prepared for.[/QUOTE]
Creating the illusion of victory is fine, but there's no reason why you can't tease the destruction of everything instead. Mix it up a little.
And when you get down to brass tacs, what Faustis did was pretty much the exact same thing as was done to Shield. Putting a few lines of dialogue in that say say "Oh, we tried the spicy recipe, not original blend" isn't enough. There were ways to get the fragment without making Wakanda look like a chump.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3111369]I disagree. For big stories you always at SOME point have to create the illusion that the villain will win (even though we all know they won't ). It hurts the finale if the villain can't get to that point. And for this story winning meant the cube fragments.
It was fine for Wakanda to get some early wins over Hydra, but eventually they needed to get to the point where the badges looked like they were going to win.
As for the WAY it was done ... I'd like to think it was done in a way to show that Wakanda couldn't be beaten through sheer force alone. It it was the same tactic used against SHIELD, but the method he used apparently was different. So it's not necessarily something T'Challa could be prepared for.[/QUOTE]
[B]Right, Tchalla who had been trained since birth to face the unknown, is fooled and catch off guard by mind control. Something the World of superheros has an abundance of... No way to prepare for that.
If I'm about to get into a Fight with a guy that's twice my size and has a strength advantage over me, obviously my tactic wouldn't be to get into a slugfest with them. It would be a different tactic to expose their weakness. That doesn't make the bigger guy look impressive because it looked like he was winning. It all matters about the end result and that end result was that Zlister Faustus, single handily neutralized the entire Wakandan army. In one motion he did what the super skrulls failed to do and took 3 tries and the full force of Thanos to do. So no, it's not a good showing for Wakanda at all. It's just a further knock on a once dangerous place you don't **** with, to now be reduced to easily taken over or brought to their knees by everyone[/B]
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[QUčOTE=Ezyo1000;3111455][B]Right, Tchalla who had been trained since birth to face the unknown, is fooled and catch off guard by mind control. Something the World of superheros has an abundance of... No way to prepare for that.[/B][/QUOTE]
Since this apparently was a new method of mind control yeah ... there might not have been a way to prepare for that. It's tough to prepare for something when you don't necessarily know what it is or how it works.
Whether or not the same trick would work a second time is a different matter.