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[QUOTE=Midnight_v;2956131]Its awkward and frustrating when entering the black panther thread and the dicussion is all about his lois lane and jimmy olsen. I... never thought about but much but... Storm is a distraction to the black panther mythos.
Its parasitic... in some way the people who are fans of T'challa first and primarilly end up sharing his appreciation thread with fans who are primary fans of Storm... I guess cause it is their hope or observation that she gets better treatment in Black Panther than she does in the X-Men.
However it seems like that's a bad deal for tchalla if his role with her is more gynocentric simp behavior than supes and lois.
He needs a need a new Goddess or the avatar of several chosen ones or sonething.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that Storm isn't any characters Lois Lane... she's Storm. That probalby would be Monica Lynn.
Anytime you decide to have a character get involved with an existing hero like Storm rather than creating your own, it stops being entirely about BP. Storm, or even a lesser profile character like say Spectrum, still have their own fan bases and histories independent of T'Challa. For better or for worse, that brings baggage.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2956165][B]The problem is that Storm isn't any characters Lois Lane... she's Storm. That probalby would be Monica Lynn.
Anytime you decide to have a character get involved with an existing hero like Storm rather than creating your own, it stops being entirely about BP. Storm, or even a lesser profile character like say Spectrum, still have their own fan bases and histories independent of T'Challa. [/B]For better or for worse, that brings baggage.[/QUOTE]
[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xo9b1nN5oOQJgI/giphy.gif[/img]
and baggage doesn't necessarily have to be bad unless you make it so.
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[QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE]Storm is nobody Lois Lane. She was very much established and doing her thing well before THEY became a thing[/QUOTE].
Thats the problem. In his book... she's a love interest that brings her own fans and demands and desires that can conflict in a way lois would not. So here you are defining how she is or is not lois at any extent but shes a love interest in someone elses story.
[quote]Furthermore, there are posters who are fans of both[/quote] The word your obviating is "primarily" I don't need to be a fan of storm to be a fan of black panther. However I noticed that there are people in this thread who have black panther avatars and a lot of people in this thread who had storm avatars as evidenced of who their primary concern is for or who their favorite may or may not be.
If I'm honest I think the X-Men are moving towards a post-storm world and for many reasons they are not interested in using her or even understanding her to use compared to your knowledge of what with the whole Energy site thing you mentioned. They you may agree are constantly misusing storm... Am I right?
So from the outside you'll understand how someone can look at its like " Black Panther: Rest Haven for hoes".
I "feel" like... like the fans of both want her here because shes essentially a refugee from thr x camp.
U MAY not see it that way but...I dont care
I KNOW im not being unreasonable completely.
She cant stand own her own and she detracts from the mythos ane there are other goddesses. Which would be better for bp
Edit: Im slow typing on my phone driving so you guys are getting your ideas out a little faster than me I'm sorry. My last post for a while is this it seems like what you guys want is a Black Panther and storm comic book. Because you seem to be fans of both characters I'm not a fan of storm I'm not a huge fan of black panther I accept him as Marvel's leading-man though that's what it is now. She adds nothing to the Mythos but baggage no one can move on when their ex-wife is just hanging around all the time. I posit that the only reason this place is infested with storm fans and by that I mean people who are primarily storm fans and want to force this pairing is that she can't stand on her own end will not get the push she arguably deserves in the X books. None of that is fair to Black Panther or black panther fans who don't love storm and see how it weakens him as a character.
... maybe I'm way off and I'm the only person that feels that way... Anybody else care to weigh in am I... Just completely off or ignorant to what she brings to the Black Panther Mythos? Thoughts? From someone other than xpac and Butterfly Kisses.
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[QUOTE=DJ1107;2955519][IMG]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RcFMNtCulKU/WNm7L-t8vAI/AAAAAAABXBQ/SumuVex-QXMIhdHrNSLaif4j0w6wXugFgCLcB/s1600/Jungle%2BAction%2B%2526%2BBlack%2BPanther%2B20-01.jpg[/IMG]
Ladies & Gentlemen one of the smartest individuals in the MU. Also 20 cents for a pound of burger? Christ.[/QUOTE]
In fairness, 20 cents more, not 20 cents.
Anyway, the art for the next Black Panther issue is absolutely beautiful. I don't think we've been shortchanged yet.
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There's a valid complaint of Coates' run that T'Challa isn't getting amazing feats and is being characterized [I]differently[/I]. The extent to which people think that's true and what other factors they consider (if any) makes a lot of BP fans feel wary towards Storm. She has an established history and is more closely a part of another mythos (the X-Men) so at a time when people are itching for T'Challa to get some wins, fans feel threatened that even more of T'Challa's spotlight will be "taken" by another character. That's a legitimate feeling to have, but when it comes down to it, these two characters got a lot of history and ultimately are gonna be intertwined for a long time.
If Coates wants to feature Storm or any major characters for that matter, he needs to be conscious of the fact that T'Challa's the man in charge and everybody else is an accessory, albeit developed, useful ones. I'm loving the progress that Shuri, Changamire, and others are going through as characters but there's obviously room for improvement as far as showcasing T'Challa in all his badassery goes. I think that's where most of the criticisms of Storm comes from.
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[QUOTE=Midnight_v;2956207][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE][QUOTE].
Thats the problem. In his book... she's a love interest that brings her own fans and demands and desires that can conflict in a way lois would not. So here you are defining how she is or is not lois at any extent but shes a love interest in someone elses story.
The word your obviating is "primarily" I don't need to be a fan of storm to be a fan of black panther. However I noticed that there are people in this thread who have black panther avatars and a lot of people in this thread who had storm avatars as evidenced of who their primary concern is for or who their favorite may or may not be.
If I'm honest I think the X-Men are moving towards a post-storm world and for many reasons they are not interested in using her or even understanding her to use compared to your knowledge of what with the whole Energy site thing you mentioned. They you may agree are constantly misusing storm... Am I right?
So from the outside you'll understand how someone can look at its like " Black Panther: Rest Haven for hoes".
I "feel" like... like the fans of both want her here because shes essentially a refugee from thr x camp.
U MAY not see it that way but...I dont care
I KNOW im not being unreasonable completely.
She cant stand own her own and she detracts from the mythos ane there are other goddesses. Which would be better for bp
Edit: Im slow typing on my phone driving so you guys are getting your ideas out a little faster than me I'm sorry. My last post for a while is this it seems like what you guys want is a Black Panther and storm comic book. Because you seem to be fans of both characters I'm not a fan of storm I'm not a huge fan of black panther I accept him as Marvel's leading-man though that's what it is now. She adds nothing to the Mythos but baggage no one can move on when their ex-wife is just hanging around all the time. I posit that the only reason this place is infested with storm fans and by that I mean people who are primarily storm fans and want to force this pairing is that she can't stand on her own end will not get the push she arguably deserves in the X books. None of that is fair to Black Panther or black panther fans who don't love storm and see how it weakens him as a character.
... maybe I'm way off and I'm the only person that feels that way... Anybody else care to weigh in am I... Just completely off or ignorant to what she brings to the Black Panther Mythos? Thoughts? From someone other than xpac and Butterfly Kisses.[/QUOTE]
If you want to know what she brings to the mythos, you don't read about it in posts. You read about it in the books. Read the work of Hudlin and McDuffie and Maeberry and Liss.
For those who enjoyed the relationship, it added something. For those thathat didn't, it didn't.
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2956125]Then tell the writer to do his JOB.
His job is to sell Black Panther not Midnight Angels nor Misty nor Storm.
Yet the number one complaint everyone has is why is this book not about him? Even folks who hate him are asking that.
When this would not be allowed to happen to Batman-he can't even have Duke Thomas make a one page cameo without folks raising heck.
If Cotes want to split the book-go for it or 4 page backups go for it. But lets not forget the job he was hired to do.
If he wants a Storm book-pitch one and be ready to get the same bashing Bendis and Moon Girl's writer gets. If he is that talented make that book so good that it sells and forces Marvel to fight harder to get her film rights back. Since Fox is doing nothing with her.
DO a good enough book with Midnight Angels or Storm that does what Motor Crush-a book a lot of stores REFUSED to sell because it was about a black lesbian-did last month-a top seller who beat every Rebirth & Marvel trade.
But don't do it at the expense of Black Panther's book-we got a movie coming. With this being the most recent run-you sell an incompetent BP-you wasted a shot to get more readers into comics or at least trades.[/QUOTE]
You and others have never really hated the supporting characters when they were the ones being developed more by Coates. But your hatred and others hatred for Storm is showing up by blaming her on low sales , that the book is becoming hers and she is the reason for Coates bad writing. Well, sounds like.
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There will always be huge and loyal fans of the BP/Storm pairing so you cant blame them for wanting both to appear together in one book.
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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;2956373]There will always be huge and loyal fans of the BP/Storm pairing so you cant blame them for wanting both to appear together in one book.[/QUOTE]
I can blame them where not everyone was on board with it. When it ended it was a red light for trollfest towards Black Panther.
Huldin, McDfuffie and a few others made it work-too bad others who didn't like competition (a disease running wild at DC) screwed it up.
Now if everybody is on board with it-that is one thing but if we are going to head to a repeat of 2010-no thanks.
No one wants time wasted on something that film rights and trolling can screw up.
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...I don't really like getting involved in discussions about the current BP run since I'm not reading it anymore. However, I'd like to say a few things:
I don't think anyone is "blaming Storm" for anything at the moment, from what I've read. At least, not directly. I know some have criticized some of her actions in the past, however. But at the end of the day, I think we're all aware that Storm is a fictional character and all that she is and does are a manifestation of a writer. Storm is [I]not real[/I]. Nevertheless, Coates is a [I]very real person[/I] and his [I]very real actions and decisions[/I] are the problem for us here.
Look at the preview for example: I know it's just a preview but still, it is [U]promotion[/U]. T'Challa, the Black Panther, does not appear on any of those panels. Yet whose book is this? Whose name is the very first you see? That--to me--is a problem: [U]You're not promoting the title character[/U]. And even if someone like say, a casual comic book reader, who stumbles upon this preview, doesn't question the missing presence of the title character, it's going to be stuck in his or her mind that Storm is who he or she is going to read about. That person has been given the choice to order this issue because he or she has seen Storm, not Black Panther. If this book was called "Black Panther & Storm", perhaps this would be forgivable. However for me, this somewhat proves to me that T'Challa will not do anything worthy of note in this issue because such a thing cannot even be teased to build up anticipation.
Looking at the preview again, I don't recall seeing T'Challa acting like this in his own book: [I]Identifying the problem. Attending to the problem. Solving the problem[/I]. When has T'Challa in this series gone into a fight or addressed a situation [I]and won[/I] undisputed single-handedly or flawlessly? When has he done such a thing by his own thought or will? I legitimately cannot recall such an instance, and if there has been (I would very much like to be corrected), how many times has it happened in the total of the now 15 issue series? Meanwhile, there are a plethora of examples of T'Challa doing this in other guest appearances and in the current team book, Ultimates. The preview for that book shows T'Challa (by his own thought or will) attempting to face the White Tiger God. Now even if he loses, that shows T'Challa doing something on his own. That's a very definitive trait of the T'Challa many of us here know and love. And this is just one instance, not to talk of the other instances that show this same trait.
I'm currently reading Priest's run in preparation of the movie (and to get the bad taste of Coates out of my mouth) and that T'Challa [I]almost[/I] comes across as cruel compared to the guy Coates is writing. That T'Challa was the one who went out of his way to bust up gangbangers to set up his own intelligence network, threatened corrupt members of the tomorrow fund with fear and violence (he literally set one of them's clothes on fire and was so visibly disgusted to find out he was a pedophile that he had no problem letting him fly out a window which he pushed him out of). Take the moment when he "decked" Mephisto for example. Sure, T'Challa had the brightest minds in Wakanda monitoring and draining Mephisto energy, but [I]he had them do it[/I]. It was his thought and will. They didn't do it by themselves by their own thought and will and then go "Your highness, we've captured the devil for you because we thought it necessary. What would you like to do with him?". He ordered them to do what he knew needed to be done and then finished the job. Reading some of the letters in the letters page, you can see Priest taking some heat and being utterly unapologetic about this approach to T'Challa. This is why his version til this very day is the definitive T'Challa: Other writers are borrowing from it. Animated series are borrowing from it, The MCU seems to be borrowing from it. It was the necessary reinvention and re-imagination that the character needed, while also making sure that said characterization made sense: T'Challa is the warrior king of a highly advanced warrior isolationist nation. That sounds like it demands some level of ruthlessness and pragmatism, not cruelty and certainly not complacency or inadequacy. I never saw that attitude in this book, nor was it ever pointed out by others who (quite bravely) continue to read on.
With all of that inconsideration, one should not be surprised when Black Panther fans voice their repeated complaints when a supporting cast is then given agency or traits that belong to the title character. While these (or at least, just the former) are not particularly a bad thing, it becomes a problem when we do not get what we want and instead have to read what we want, being done by people we don't want it done by solely.
See, I don't hate Storm. I [I]like[/I] Storm. But I'm [I]not going to like[/I] Storm when I feel like she's being made to overstep her boundaries as a supporting cast member when my Black Panther continues to do squat. This makes her feel like she is taking up panel space that could be used for the title character, which at the end of it is more important.
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[QUOTE=RLAAMJR.;2956361]You and others have never really hated the supporting characters when they were the ones being developed more by Coates. But your hatred and others hatred for Storm is showing up by blaming her on low sales , that the book is becoming hers and she is the reason for Coates bad writing. Well, sounds like.[/QUOTE]
That is completely untrue. lol. Those of us who do not like this run have hated on the Midnight Angles, Changemire, Shuri to some extent, Tetu(for some reason I keep running across a free Tetu # on facebook). We make fun of Eden for being an Uber driver.
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I like changemire. I thought Tetu was interesting. Hell I don't have a problem with the midnight angels in theory.
Just not enough positive action.
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[QUOTE=FriendRoss;2956491]I like changemire. I thought Tetu was interesting. Hell I don't have a problem with the midnight angels in theory.
Just not enough positive action.[/QUOTE]
That's pretty much how I feel about this whole run. It's dialogue heavy, exploratory, and introducing us to new characters/cultural elements that have potential. My main criticism is T'Challa not getting top tier feats while seemingly lacking his confidence. But I think that's bound to change as he adjusts to the reduced weight of the crown and takes on these higher level threats. We're already seeing him use more of his skills (energy fists, spirit spear, etc.) and taking on monsters. He also seems more sure of his tactical skill, like when he ordered the MA around while fighting the vanyan. I don't think Coates is failing BP just yet.
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[QUOTE]You and others have never really hated the supporting characters when they were the ones being developed more by Coates. But your hatred and others hatred for Storm is showing up by blaming her on low sales , that the book is becoming hers and she is the reason for Coates bad writing. Well, sounds like.[/QUOTE]
For those of us who started DAY ONE and not johnny come lately because we are being pandered to-saw the USS Starship Low Sales sales before Storm was ever thought of.
Folks were screaming about the Midnight Angles from day one. The bleeding of sales was slow because many tried to give Coates the benefit of the the doubt to the end.
Others saw how bad his writing was and many question why was he writing a story that could have been told in 6 issues. There are videos on that on youtube.
Folks don't want to see round two of support cast takes over the book again.
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[QUOTE=FriendRoss;2956491]I like changemire. I thought Tetu was interesting. Hell I don't have a problem with the midnight angels in theory.
Just not enough positive action.[/QUOTE]
If there's one short coming everyone can agree on in this book (including Coates himself to some degree) it's that the action isn't the creative teams strong point. Coates himself admits it's an aspect he's trying to improve on. And even thought I overall enjoyed the art from the first 12 issues, I thought overall the art action came off flat and at times lacked scale.
I think there's a little improvement in the second season as far as action goes... but it's still not the books strong point by any means.
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[QUOTE=Midnight_v;2956207]
Thats the problem. In his book... she's a love interest that brings her own fans and demands and desires that can conflict in a way lois would not. So here you are defining how she is or is not lois at any extent but shes a love interest in someone elses story.
The word your obviating is "primarily" I don't need to be a fan of storm to be a fan of black panther. However I noticed that there are people in this thread who have black panther avatars and a lot of people in this thread who had storm avatars as evidenced of who their primary concern is for or who their favorite may or may not be.
If I'm honest I think the X-Men are moving towards a post-storm world and for many reasons they are not interested in using her or even understanding her to use compared to your knowledge of what with the whole Energy site thing you mentioned. They you may agree are constantly misusing storm... Am I right?
So from the outside you'll understand how someone can look at its like " Black Panther: Rest Haven for hoes".
I "feel" like... like the fans of both want her here because shes essentially a refugee from thr x camp.
U MAY not see it that way but...I dont care
I KNOW im not being unreasonable completely.
She cant stand own her own and she detracts from the mythos ane there are other goddesses. Which would be better for bp
Edit: Im slow typing on my phone driving so you guys are getting your ideas out a little faster than me I'm sorry. My last post for a while is this it seems like what you guys want is a Black Panther and storm comic book. Because you seem to be fans of both characters I'm not a fan of storm I'm not a huge fan of black panther I accept him as Marvel's leading-man though that's what it is now. She adds nothing to the Mythos but baggage no one can move on when their ex-wife is just hanging around all the time. I posit that the only reason this place is infested with storm fans and by that I mean people who are primarily storm fans and want to force this pairing is that she can't stand on her own end will not get the push she arguably deserves in the X books. None of that is fair to Black Panther or black panther fans who don't love storm and see how it weakens him as a character.
... maybe I'm way off and I'm the only person that feels that way... Anybody else care to weigh in am I... Just completely off or ignorant to what she brings to the Black Panther Mythos? Thoughts? From someone other than xpac and Butterfly Kisses.[/QUOTE]
1.) Storm has been written poorly for over a decade. In spite of how a writer understands her in regards to her powers she will be a part of the Xmen because of her iconic status. That is very reason she is in Gold even though she hasn't served any purpose in relation to story.
Also, I don't necessarily want a Storm and BP book. I am completely fine with her making guest appearances as they work towards to rebuilding their relationship. And BP in regards to the baggage or not is by design of his own mythos. But considering you think storm fans as an infestation I think I'm gonna just stop with responding.
[QUOTE=chief12d;2956293]There's a valid complaint of Coates' run that T'Challa isn't getting amazing feats and is being characterized [I]differently[/I]. The extent to which people think that's true and what other factors they consider (if any) makes a lot of BP fans feel wary towards Storm. She has an established history and is more closely a part of another mythos (the X-Men) so at a time when people are itching for T'Challa to get some wins, fans feel threatened that even more of T'Challa's spotlight will be "taken" by another character. That's a legitimate feeling to have, but when it comes down to it, these two characters got a lot of history and ultimately are gonna be intertwined for a long time.
If Coates wants to feature Storm or any major characters for that matter, he needs to be conscious of the fact that T'Challa's the man in charge and everybody else is an accessory, albeit developed, useful ones. I'm loving the progress that Shuri, Changamire, and others are going through as characters but there's obviously room for improvement as far as showcasing T'Challa in all his badassery goes. I think that's where most of the criticisms of Storm comes from.[/QUOTE]
how has storm being in this book kept him from being the man in charge? you are blaming progress with his character that has nothing to do with Storm.
[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2956440]...I don't really like getting involved in discussions about the current BP run since I'm not reading it anymore. However, I'd like to say a few things:
I don't think anyone is "blaming Storm" for anything at the moment, from what I've read. At least, not directly. I know some have criticized some of her actions in the past, however. But at the end of the day, I think we're all aware that Storm is a fictional character and all that she is and does are a manifestation of a writer. Storm is [I]not real[/I]. Nevertheless, Coates is a [I]very real person[/I] and his [I]very real actions and decisions[/I] are the problem for us here.
Storm", perhaps this would be forgivable. However for me, this somewhat proves to me that T'Challa will not do anything worthy of note in this issue because such a thing cannot even be teased to build up anticipation.
Looking at the preview again, I don't recall seeing T'Challa acting like this in his own book: [I]Identifying the problem. Attending to the problem. Solving the problem[/I]. When has T'Challa in this series gone into a fight or addressed a situation [I]and won[/I] undisputed single-handedly or flawlessly? When has he done such a thing by his own thought or will? I legitimately cannot recall such an instance, and if there has been (I would very much like to be corrected), how many times has it happened in the total of the now 15 issue series? Meanwhile, there are a plethora of examples of T'Challa doing this in other guest appearances and in the current team book, Ultimates. The preview for that book shows T'Challa (by his own thought or will) attempting to face the White Tiger God. Now even if he loses, that shows T'Challa doing something on his own. That's a very definitive trait of the T'Challa many of us here know and love. And this is just one instance, not to talk of the other instances that show this same trait.
With all of that inconsideration, one should not be surprised when Black Panther fans voice their repeated complaints when a supporting cast is then given agency or traits that belong to the title character. While these (or at least, just the former) are not particularly a bad thing, it becomes a problem when we do not get what we want and instead have to read what we want, being done by people we don't want it done by solely.
See, I don't hate Storm. I [I]like[/I] Storm. But I'm [I]not going to like[/I] Storm when I feel like she's being made to overstep her boundaries as a supporting cast member when my Black Panther continues to do squat. This makes her feel like she is taking up panel space that could be used for the title character, which at the end of it is more important.[/QUOTE]
Again, Storm hasn't done anything in this run that has kept him from doing a major feat. in context to the story the wakandans characters are the ones taking from what you all are wanting tchalla to do. Mcduffie had both these characters share panel time and without issue of one getting jobbed.
[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2956432]I can blame them where not everyone was on board with it. When it ended it was a red light for trollfest towards Black Panther.
Huldin, McDfuffie and a few others made it work-too bad others who didn't like competition (a disease running wild at DC) screwed it up.
Now if everybody is on board with it-that is one thing but if we are going to head to a repeat of 2010-no thanks.
No one wants time wasted on something that film rights and trolling can screw up.[mobbed.
not all storm fans trolled bp. that's an over generalization
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[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2955837]Storm is doing something and folks is happy that it's somewhere else, sure they could complain to the X-Writers or stop buying X-Men comics but why do that when you can settle for crumbs as she continues to be a special unwanted guest in another character's comic because the writer is too lazy to use the main character of said comic.
Don't harsh the "I'm totally settling and will be gone when she's treated ok in the X-Men" buzz[/QUOTE]
You're back projecting again. It's like you're defining trait. Kyss and I constantly complain about her treatment in the X-books. And I know of a few Storm fans including myself who aren't currently buying X-books. Please speak about things you know for a fact.
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;2955854]1.) Again, I don't think anything you are saying is unfair, with the exception of situations outside his powerset. What I mean by this is when for instance when Shuri called upon the dead in battle I agree why have her do this when Tchalla can do it. From that perspective, your point makes a lot of sense. However, in regards to handling tornadoes and sporadic storms he doesn't have the ability within his powerset to challenge this. In that instance, I don't see the problem with him reaching out to a character like Storm for help.
2.) How Jason Aaroon, described her being depowered was simply not acceptable. Tchalla, during Doomwar, had a power dampening room which prevented Storm (or any mutant) from using their powers if contained within it. In this case (even though I don't think a power dampener should be able to severe her communion with nature) how she was depowered is acceptable. But for Aaron to put in place nanites that stripped away the heat from the storm which then made her powerless was poor writing. The reason it is poor writing is because he has a fundamental misunderstanding on how her powers work. She could be in the vacuum of space and her powers would still be functional as shown by McDuffie when she and Tchalla were with the FF4. I don't mind him having technology but in that example the tech explanation resulted in Storm being lowballed. Tchalla was propped up at the expense of years and years of continuity to make the playing field even. If the opposite were true BP fans would be in arms. I think your frustrations is that he hasn't done anything at all. So to have Storm come in and do something instead of him is even more frustrating. I get where you are coming from and can't argue against that. But it is 16 issues in and the threat is related to weather which is her specialty. I think in this case you should be a little more forgiving because the previous encounters she did nothing.
YASS!!!! We praise and thank you ALL-GODDESS for you kindness and using Coates as vessel to preach and reach the masses!!! Please show favor to T'coro by rekindling their love. What you put together can never be broken.
LOL this made me laugh more than it should have lol.[/QUOTE]
Yes to this whole post!
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2956092]There's a reason Hudlin thought nothing of offing half of T'Challa's supporting cast and it's the same reason Mayberry wiped out the other half.
T'Challa's supporting cast ain't all that great, tbh.
Ross and Monica Lynn are probably the best of the lot since they actually are archetypal trouble magnets that drive stories forward. But they are civvies so
Wednesday warriors don't care about any of them (with the notable exception of Mary Jane).
So yanking known costumed characters from other books to populate the book isn't lazy, its revamp 101. Bendis does that stuff all the time and nobody makes a peep about it( see Luke Cage showing up in damn near everything Bendis writes).
So Storm can serve a narrative purpose here and has name recognition that Monica Lynn or Photon don't have.
That has nothing to do with peeps wanting Storm to lead the Xmen some more after 5 years of leading it in 5 books at the same time or why
Storm leading the Xmen yet again even should be a thing at this point. Coates doesn't write the Xbooks (yet) and can't control how she is used there.
Seriously, Storm's been the leader of at least one Xteam and usually several at once since Schism. Let Kitty get her turn already, it's only 15 years overdue.
If this book is going to be Wakanda based (and if it were up to me it wouldn't be) the book is gonna is going to need credible internal conflict
and an ensemble cast beyond a group of proud, noble, non-power having redshirts.
So I'm fine with all this.[/QUOTE]
It only makes sense. And anyone trying to deny it is delusional. Its canon that T'Challa and Ororo have been tied to one another back before he became king and she was an X-man. They are each others backstory. The quicker people get over that, the better off they'll be. Facts!
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;2956121]Sigh... Storm is nobody Lois Lane. She was very much established and doing her thing well before THEY became a thing.
And she is only a distraction for those who can't move beyond what happened in the past. Coates seemingly is trying to fix that. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Furthermore, there are posters who are fans of both the characters. Like it or not they are both very much tied to each others mythos. As such, those fans will continue to express said support when appropriate.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. He's laying the foundation that was missing previously. He's bringing them closer together. They confide in one another and have the others back. This is just a story about a man and a woman showing just how deeply in love they are. Blessed be the Wakandan Royal Marriage in the light of Bast and the Bright Lady.
-
[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2956440]...I don't really like getting involved in discussions about the current BP run since I'm not reading it anymore. However, I'd like to say a few things:
I don't think anyone is "blaming Storm" for anything at the moment, from what I've read. At least, not directly. I know some have criticized some of her actions in the past, however. But at the end of the day, I think we're all aware that Storm is a fictional character and all that she is and does are a manifestation of a writer. Storm is [I]not real[/I]. Nevertheless, Coates is a [I]very real person[/I] and his [I]very real actions and decisions[/I] are the problem for us here.
Look at the preview for example: I know it's just a preview but still, it is [U]promotion[/U]. T'Challa, the Black Panther, does not appear on any of those panels. Yet whose book is this? Whose name is the very first you see? That--to me--is a problem: [U]You're not promoting the title character[/U]. And even if someone like say, a casual comic book reader, who stumbles upon this preview, doesn't question the missing presence of the title character, it's going to be stuck in his or her mind that Storm is who he or she is going to read about. That person has been given the choice to order this issue because he or she has seen Storm, not Black Panther. If this book was called "Black Panther & Storm", perhaps this would be forgivable. However for me, this somewhat proves to me that T'Challa will not do anything worthy of note in this issue because such a thing cannot even be teased to build up anticipation.
Looking at the preview again, I don't recall seeing T'Challa acting like this in his own book: [I]Identifying the problem. Attending to the problem. Solving the problem[/I]. When has T'Challa in this series gone into a fight or addressed a situation [I]and won[/I] undisputed single-handedly or flawlessly? When has he done such a thing by his own thought or will? I legitimately cannot recall such an instance, and if there has been (I would very much like to be corrected), how many times has it happened in the total of the now 15 issue series? Meanwhile, there are a plethora of examples of T'Challa doing this in other guest appearances and in the current team book, Ultimates. The preview for that book shows T'Challa (by his own thought or will) attempting to face the White Tiger God. Now even if he loses, that shows T'Challa doing something on his own. That's a very definitive trait of the T'Challa many of us here know and love. And this is just one instance, not to talk of the other instances that show this same trait.
I'm currently reading Priest's run in preparation of the movie (and to get the bad taste of Coates out of my mouth) and that T'Challa [I]almost[/I] comes across as cruel compared to the guy Coates is writing. That T'Challa was the one who went out of his way to bust up gangbangers to set up his own intelligence network, threatened corrupt members of the tomorrow fund with fear and violence (he literally set one of them's clothes on fire and was so visibly disgusted to find out he was a pedophile that he had no problem letting him fly out a window which he pushed him out of). Take the moment when he "decked" Mephisto for example. Sure, T'Challa had the brightest minds in Wakanda monitoring and draining Mephisto energy, but [I]he had them do it[/I]. It was his thought and will. They didn't do it by themselves by their own thought and will and then go "Your highness, we've captured the devil for you because we thought it necessary. What would you like to do with him?". He ordered them to do what he knew needed to be done and then finished the job. Reading some of the letters in the letters page, you can see Priest taking some heat and being utterly unapologetic about this approach to T'Challa. This is why his version til this very day is the definitive T'Challa: Other writers are borrowing from it. Animated series are borrowing from it, The MCU seems to be borrowing from it. It was the necessary reinvention and re-imagination that the character needed, while also making sure that said characterization made sense: T'Challa is the warrior king of a highly advanced warrior isolationist nation. That sounds like it demands some level of ruthlessness and pragmatism, not cruelty and certainly not complacency or inadequacy. I never saw that attitude in this book, nor was it ever pointed out by others who (quite bravely) continue to read on.
With all of that inconsideration, one should not be surprised when Black Panther fans voice their repeated complaints when a supporting cast is then given agency or traits that belong to the title character. While these (or at least, just the former) are not particularly a bad thing, it becomes a problem when we do not get what we want and instead have to read what we want, being done by people we don't want it done by solely.
See, I don't hate Storm. I [I]like[/I] Storm. But I'm [I]not going to like[/I] Storm when I feel like she's being made to overstep her boundaries as a supporting cast member when my Black Panther continues to do squat. This makes her feel like she is taking up panel space that could be used for the title character, which at the end of it is more important.[/QUOTE]
They don't want to hear you
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956544]You're back projecting again. It's like you're defining trait. Kyss and I constantly complain about her treatment in the X-books. And I know of a few Storm fans including myself who aren't currently buying X-books. Please speak about things you know for a fact.
Yes to this whole post!
It only makes sense. And anyone trying to deny it is delusional. Its canon that T'Challa and Ororo have been tied to one another back before he became king and she was an X-man. They are each others backstory. The quicker people get over that, the better off they'll be. Facts!
Exactly. He's laying the foundation that was missing previously. He's bringing them closer together. They confide in one another and have the others back. This is just a story about a man and a woman showing just how deeply in love they are. Blessed be the Wakandan Royal Marriage in the light of Bast and the Bright Lady.[/QUOTE]
I'm not projecting anything but since we only see you here when Storm shows up it's nice that the trend Storm fans have continues
I love Black Panther "but" is the phrase every time you post
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;2956542]
not all storm fans trolled bp. that's an over generalization[/QUOTE]
Gee did I strike a nerve? Since I didn't mention Storm fans.
The folks who did the first time know who they are.
And I am sure they are waiting to do it again.
Since they have to be bitter that trashing BP didn't work out in the end.
That maybe just maybe if they played along-instead of treating Black Panther like he was an Inhuman, We might have had that BP & Storm book. Or a better done Storm book.
But we will never know until Marvel hires someone who understands his job is to build up Black Panther NOT supporting cast. This is not Gotham City or Smallville or Metropolis -it's Wakanda. We are not there just yet.
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2956440]...I don't really like getting involved in discussions about the current BP run since I'm not reading it anymore. However, I'd like to say a few things:
I don't think anyone is "blaming Storm" for anything at the moment, from what I've read. At least, not directly. I know some have criticized some of her actions in the past, however. But at the end of the day, I think we're all aware that Storm is a fictional character and all that she is and does are a manifestation of a writer. Storm is [I]not real[/I]. Nevertheless, Coates is a [I]very real person[/I] and his [I]very real actions and decisions[/I] are the problem for us here.
Look at the preview for example: I know it's just a preview but still, it is [U]promotion[/U]. T'Challa, the Black Panther, does not appear on any of those panels. Yet whose book is this? Whose name is the very first you see? That--to me--is a problem: [U]You're not promoting the title character[/U]. And even if someone like say, a casual comic book reader, who stumbles upon this preview, doesn't question the missing presence of the title character, it's going to be stuck in his or her mind that Storm is who he or she is going to read about. That person has been given the choice to order this issue because he or she has seen Storm, not Black Panther. If this book was called "Black Panther & Storm", perhaps this would be forgivable. However for me, this somewhat proves to me that T'Challa will not do anything worthy of note in this issue because such a thing cannot even be teased to build up anticipation.
Looking at the preview again, I don't recall seeing T'Challa acting like this in his own book: [I]Identifying the problem. Attending to the problem. Solving the problem[/I]. When has T'Challa in this series gone into a fight or addressed a situation [I]and won[/I] undisputed single-handedly or flawlessly? When has he done such a thing by his own thought or will? I legitimately cannot recall such an instance, and if there has been (I would very much like to be corrected), how many times has it happened in the total of the now 15 issue series? Meanwhile, there are a plethora of examples of T'Challa doing this in other guest appearances and in the current team book, Ultimates. The preview for that book shows T'Challa (by his own thought or will) attempting to face the White Tiger God. Now even if he loses, that shows T'Challa doing something on his own. That's a very definitive trait of the T'Challa many of us here know and love. And this is just one instance, not to talk of the other instances that show this same trait.
I'm currently reading Priest's run in preparation of the movie (and to get the bad taste of Coates out of my mouth) and that T'Challa [I]almost[/I] comes across as cruel compared to the guy Coates is writing. That T'Challa was the one who went out of his way to bust up gangbangers to set up his own intelligence network, threatened corrupt members of the tomorrow fund with fear and violence (he literally set one of them's clothes on fire and was so visibly disgusted to find out he was a pedophile that he had no problem letting him fly out a window which he pushed him out of). Take the moment when he "decked" Mephisto for example. Sure, T'Challa had the brightest minds in Wakanda monitoring and draining Mephisto energy, but [I]he had them do it[/I]. It was his thought and will. They didn't do it by themselves by their own thought and will and then go "Your highness, we've captured the devil for you because we thought it necessary. What would you like to do with him?". He ordered them to do what he knew needed to be done and then finished the job. Reading some of the letters in the letters page, you can see Priest taking some heat and being utterly unapologetic about this approach to T'Challa. This is why his version til this very day is the definitive T'Challa: Other writers are borrowing from it. Animated series are borrowing from it, The MCU seems to be borrowing from it. It was the necessary reinvention and re-imagination that the character needed, while also making sure that said characterization made sense: T'Challa is the warrior king of a highly advanced warrior isolationist nation. That sounds like it demands some level of ruthlessness and pragmatism, not cruelty and certainly not complacency or inadequacy. I never saw that attitude in this book, nor was it ever pointed out by others who (quite bravely) continue to read on.
With all of that inconsideration, one should not be surprised when Black Panther fans voice their repeated complaints when a supporting cast is then given agency or traits that belong to the title character. While these (or at least, just the former) are not particularly a bad thing, it becomes a problem when we do not get what we want and instead have to read what we want, being done by people we don't want it done by solely.
See, I don't hate Storm. I [I]like[/I] Storm. But I'm [I]not going to like[/I] Storm when I feel like she's being made to overstep her boundaries as a supporting cast member when my Black Panther continues to do squat. This makes her feel like she is taking up panel space that could be used for the title character, which at the end of it is more important.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, Kyss and I already understand this. We've both called it out. We are quite aware of the gripes you guys have regarding T'Challa's portrayal in his own book. They are very valid points. It doesn't change the fact that there are still people who are fans of the marriage. People that have been from day one. They've known each other since they were kids. Sure they've spent years a part. But they new each other as vulnerable children. They have lasting memories of on another. They jumped the broom together. They share a bond. They are going to constantly cross paths. And that's the way it should always be.
-
[QUOTE=butterflykyss;2956542]Again, Storm hasn't done anything in this run that has kept him from doing a major feat. in context to the story the wakandans characters are the ones taking from what you all are wanting tchalla to do. Mcduffie had both these characters share panel time and without issue of one getting jobbed.[/QUOTE]
I know where you're coming from but that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is because other members of the supporting cast have been taking the spotlight away from T'Challa (while he is written poorly), we're afraid Storm is going to do the same thing since she seems to be having a much larger presence now. Maybe others failed to articulate that properly, but that's what I think it anyway.
-
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956595]The thing is, Kyss and I already understand this. We've both called it out. We are quite aware of the gripes you guys have regarding T'Challa's portrayal in his own book. They are very valid points. It doesn't change the fact that there are still people who are fans of the marriage. People that have been from day one. They've known each other since they were kids. Sure they've spent years a part. But they new each other as vulnerable children. They have lasting memories of on another. They jumped the broom together. They share a bond. They are going to constantly cross paths. And that's the way it should always be.[/QUOTE]
That's all well and good [I]if [/I]she doesn't take away the spotlight from T'Challa in his own book. That's the fear.
-
[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2956560]I'm not projecting anything but since we only see you here when Storm shows up it's nice that the trend Storm fans have continues
I love Black Panther "but" is the phrase every time you post[/QUOTE]
Yes, you are a projector. It's your favorite past time. Don't use my post history as an indictment against all Storm fans.I'm going to continue to post in reference to what Storm's doing in her husband's title. I've admitted before and I'm copping to it again. But I've witnessed Kyss posting here on solely BP related issues. So you're projecting again. You have an agenda to push. I get it. You think it's masking your bitter repressed feelings, but it doesn't. Your pal a few posts up expressed what you're too weak to admit. Just get a grip.
-
Perhaps we all need to simmer down a bit...
-
[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2956617]That's all well and good [I]if [/I]she doesn't take away the spotlight from T'Challa in his own book. That's the fear.[/QUOTE]
And again as Kyss posted, this is the first time to our knowledge that she has actually done anything of note other than having a few conversations prior to this point in the series. What has Storm done power wise that would steal the show from her husband? But prior to this upcoming issue? We need to know. Not saying it hasn't happened, just need to see the proof.
-
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956631]And again as Kyss posted, this is the first time to our knowledge that she has actually done anything of note other than having a few conversations prior to this point in the series. What has Storm done power wise that would steal the show from her husband? But prior to this upcoming issue? We need to know. Not saying it hasn't happened, just need to see the proof.[/QUOTE]
Sigh.
I'm not saying she [I]has[/I] (trust me I wouldn't even know as I don't read this book anymore). I'm saying she [I]might [U]in the future[/U][/I], which is what people are afraid of.
-
Just to throw it out there, it's not Storm who's stealing the spotlight from BP, it's the writer of the comic unwilling to give it to him.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2956650]Just to throw it out there, it's not Storm who's stealing the spotlight from BP, it's the writer of the comic unwilling to give it to him.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what I was saying in my larger post
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2956644]Sigh.
I'm not saying she [I]has[/I] (trust me I wouldn't even know as I don't read this book anymore). I'm saying she [I]might [U]in the future[/U][/I], which is what people are afraid of.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say fear. I just think its a waste of time. Unless there is a Marvel draft and we can trade Storm for a few pounds of Vibranium and a new mutant to be named later. lol
-
[QUOTE=ed2962;2956650]Just to throw it out there, it's not Storm who's stealing the spotlight from BP, it's the writer of the comic unwilling to give it to him.[/QUOTE]
Hmm... well storm doesn't have agency as a fictional character so that much is obvious... but there is the consideration of "Oppurtunity Cost" and that a real thing, and a valid concern and NOT an unfounded fear.
(Here's a related example.
Many fans of X-23 do NOT want Wolverine ... I don't know what to call him so I'll just say "The" they don't want "The Wolverine" back, i've head them say "She's eared the title, and also within the same post say essentially "if he comes back it diminishes her" its an opportunity cost for "Spots in the X universe" theres similar backlash or distaste moreso against Jimmy hudson coming in now... the mere presence of OML, and Jimmy in many people logical opinion water down X-23 being wolverine now.)
How that relates HERE is that... I see the opportunity cost of with this writer.
You don't see that with priest, hell you don't see that with hickman...
[QUOTE][B][SIZE=5]If Coates wants to feature Storm or any major characters for that matter, he needs to be conscious of the fact that T'Challa's the man in charge and [U]everybody else is an accessory[/U], albeit developed, useful ones[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]
^This this this... 1000x this^
I feel like... he needs another love interest to court. Honestly... maybe more women should be courting him.
From all this I'd like him to have an avatar of a literal goddess show up, and be the one, if there's always going to be this love life focus on him. Let him be the king loved by goddesses.
[B][I]Or NOT[/I][/B] but whatever happens point the focus on "HIM" not anybody else.
He's the hero and the draw and everyone else is just extra. period.
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[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;2956644]Sigh.
I'm not saying she [I]has[/I] (trust me I wouldn't even know as I don't read this book anymore). I'm saying she [I]might [U]in the future[/U][/I], which is what people are afraid of.[/QUOTE]
There is a trade off there. Coates is building up BP's supporting cast and bringing back a lot of supporting people who left, died or were simply put in limbo. Storm is just one of many... Queen Divine Justice, Vibraxis, Kasper Cole, and even at least some of the students from the Wakandan school in Infinity: the Hunt are finding their way on this books radar. And giving spotlight to supporting cast members does translate to T'Challa having to share it. That's the trade off. If people want T'Challa to have love interests and supporting casts, and if people want Wakanda to have their own super heroes it means giving them panel time. Coates seems to be bringing in a lot of familiar faces, and the list is growing.
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[QUOTE=Cville;2956692]I wouldn't say fear. I just think its a waste of time. Unless there is a Marvel draft and we can trade Storm for a few pounds of Vibranium and a new mutant to be named later. lol[/QUOTE]
Or an inhuman, since Marvel studios actually owns the rights to them. Lmao.
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Did Black Panther & Susan Storm Cross The Line?
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJTTyC1yrEw[/url]
.....
I just saw this looking pairings black panther...
I'm DEAD. HAHAHA Please Enjoy.
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[QUOTE=Midnight_v;2956712]Did Black Panther & Susan Storm Cross The Line?
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJTTyC1yrEw[/url]
.....
I just saw this looking pairings black panther...
I'm DEAD. HAHAHA Please Enjoy.[/QUOTE]
T'Challa, Namor, even DOom to an extent... I swear kings just can't seem to keep their wandering eyes off of Sue. If I were Medusa, I'd make sure Black Bolt kept his distance.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956621]Yes, you are a projector. It's your favorite past time.[/quote]
You don't know what any of that means do you?
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956621]Don't use my post history as an indictment against all Storm fans.[/quote]
I don't have to as it falls right in line with what you and other Storm fans do especially during the actual marriage
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956621]I'm going to continue to post in reference to what Storm's doing in her husband's title.[/quote]
Going by the comics Storm doesn't have a husband, she has a ex-husband unless her and WOlverine got married but I'm sure Raam would have been posting about that
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956621]I've admitted before and I'm copping to it again.[/quote]
Yes we know you get pissy when in a BP appreciation thread nobody talks about Storm, maybe the Storm and Marriage thread is for you
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956621]But I've witnessed Kyss posting here on solely BP related issues.
I don't know who you're watching as just like you Kyss who use to throw shade at BP during the marriage( and thinks nobody remembers ) only shows up when Storm is mentioned
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956621]So you're projecting again.[/quote]
You really don't know what this word means do you
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956621]You have an agenda to push. I get it. You think it's masking your bitter repressed feelings, but it doesn't.[/quote]
If you where a psychatrist you'd be terrible at your job and the only one here that is bitter is in fact you but if I was called out and told the truth repeatedly I'd be bitter as well
[QUOTE=BBeeryan;2956621]Your pal a few posts up expressed what you're too weak to admit. Just get a grip.[/QUOTE]
No boo boo you need to get a grip and you need to get one badly
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[QUOTE=Midnight_v;2956700]
I feel like... he needs another love interest to court.[/QUOTE]
That would be the best option, Storm is far too much baggage, Monica would feel out of place, Spectrum is with Blue Marvel
Sever ties and move the f on
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[QUOTE=Smoov-E;2956769]That would be the best option, Storm is far too much baggage, Monica would feel out of place, Spectrum is with Blue Marvel
Sever ties and move the f on[/QUOTE]
Again, nothing wrong with creating a new inhuman and have T'Challa court her. But yeah, it's way past time for T'Challa and Storm to move on from one another. Especially since Fox isn't going to play ball anytime soon.
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[QUOTE=BlackClaw;2956791]Again, nothing wrong with creating a new inhuman and have T'Challa court her. But yeah, it's way past time for T'Challa and Storm to move on from one another. Especially since Fox isn't going to play ball anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
I honestly prefer him and Storm but if we're looking for an actual love interest outside of her why not just get an actual goddess, or demigod? Inhumans still have that bad juju, as plenty of people still hate them so having one be a love interest might lead to some fans leaving.
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[QUOTE=chief12d;2956887]I honestly prefer him and Storm but if we're looking for an actual love interest outside of her why not just get an actual goddess, or demigod? Inhumans still have that bad juju, as plenty of people still hate them so having one be a love interest might lead to some fans leaving.[/QUOTE]
Ah, a demigodess would be an amazing choice for a love interest. A good source of drama would be her mother/father being an antagonistic god.
As for a goddess, well there's always the problem of T'Challa being mortal while the goddess is not.