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[QUOTE=XPac;3740972]New York (and the States in general) is different. Most people don't believe in pantheon gods. Even Iron Man at times questioned whether or not Thor was an actual god. So New Yorkers, he's just a super hero. And if you're part of the judeo Christian belief (which is the predominant religionious belif in the States for those who are religious), you're flat out not supposed to believe in other gods.
Wakandans believe in Pantheon gods, so multiple gods existing is sort of built in. It's just a matter of picking one to worship. And right now, Storm looks like a pretty good option. They were calling her a goddess before Coates, so there's a precident to it.[/QUOTE]
As someone said, Thor or Herc showing up in Wakanda should result in a power boost as well?
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Hickman should have ended his Avengers run with T'challa in front of Bast, not T'challa with those kids.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3741010]Hickman should have ended his Avengers run with T'challa in front of Bast, not T'challa with those kids.[/QUOTE]
That would be a quick conversation. She would say "try again". Lol
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3740985]It is a bunch of crap though. It would create a 100% crisis of faith believing in a human like Storm, who has shown to never really help Wakanda in the past.
Like T'challa narrates in the beginning... the Orisha were there for numerous conflicts, a lot of them recent. Storm has only been around for SWAD (where she was secondary to T'challa) and then the recent story.
She has attacked Wakanda almost as many times as she's protected it (AvX).
And what happens when they see their God on the ground, knocked out on Youtube on her X-Men adventures? What happens when the tabloids talk about her numerous recent boyfriends?
Imagine waking up, checking out your daily reddit forums, and see your god knocked the F out by some X-men foe. What then? What happens when your all powerful god, protector of Wakanda, gets f'd up by some mutant with powers? How safe would you feel? How protected would you feel? How could you have ANY faith at all after that?
Of course, being "realistic" only matters to people when it is propping up Storm. but when you mentioned the negative aspects of having a HUMAN being worshipped as a god... it goes silent. Storm has very human choices and mistakes. It is a dangerous game to have you "god" be a living, breathing, walking god.
Is there any chance Coates examines that part of it? Of course not, because it wouldn't prop Blue up.[/QUOTE]
Storm has helped Wakanda in the past. She saved Wakanda from the Shadow King in Worlds Apart for example.
And again, she has been referred to as a goddess prior to Coates run.
BUt yes, T'Challa did have to do set this whole thing up ahead of time to make this work. He planned right from the start to positon her to appeal as a goddess to the Wakandans, which not only was his weapon against the Adversary but also was a convenient way to get Wakanda and Storm on the same page again so he wouldn't have any problems dating her. Fences needed to be mended, so he was effectively killing 2 birds with one stone.
Would Wakandan have faith in a goddess that sometimes loses? THat's a fair question. But on the flip side you can also ask whether you'd have more faith in a goddess who got knocked down but gets back up, or a goddess like Bast who hasn't shown up to the fight at all for the last 3-4 catastrophies? To be blunt, faith in Bast at this point nets you nothing. Faith in Storm will literally save you. Literally. It's a case of helping her try to help them.
As from as Storm being human and making mistakes... in the MU at least, I'd trust a competent hero over 99% of the gods out there anyday. Thor is more the exception than the rule. Being a god in the MU doesn't mean you're infallible or anything like that... it just means you're powerful and you've lived a long time. Plenty of gods are just as flawed as any random guy you will meet on the street. Plenty are LESS deserving than a lot of heroes. Granted I'd put Bast on the more positive end of the spectrum of gods we've seen in the MU but still... it's not like she's around to offer a better alternative to Storm at the moment. If you're Wakanda and Storm is here and Storm is at least TRYING then I think certainly see the upside in giving her your support.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3741000]As someone said, Thor or Herc showing up in Wakanda should result in a power boost as well?[/QUOTE]
If TlChalla can get all the Wakandans to worship them, that's entirely possible (though from a visual standpoint that might be a tougher sell than Storm).
The notion that gods get powered up by people worshipping them isn't a new one.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3741026]Storm has helped Wakanda in the past. She saved Wakanda from the Shadow King in Worlds Apart for example.
And again, she has been referred to as a goddess prior to Coates run.
BUt yes, T'Challa did have to do set this whole thing up ahead of time to make this work. He planned right from the start to positon her to appeal as a goddess to the Wakandans, which not only was his weapon against the Adversary but also was a convenient way to get Wakanda and Storm on the same page again so he wouldn't have any problems dating her. Fences needed to be mended, so he was effectively killing 2 birds with one stone.
Would Wakandan have faith in a goddess that sometimes loses? THat's a fair question. But on the flip side you can also ask whether you'd have more faith in a goddess who got knocked down but gets back up, or a goddess like Bast who hasn't shown up to the fight at all for the last 3-4 catastrophies? To be blunt, faith in Bast at this point nets you nothing. Faith in Storm will literally save you. Literally. It's a case of helping her try to help them.
As from as Storm being human and making mistakes... in the MU at least, I'd trust a competent hero over 99% of the gods out there anyday. Thor is more the exception than the rule. Being a god in the MU doesn't mean you're infallible or anything like that... it just means you're powerful and you've lived a long time. Plenty of gods are just as flawed as any random guy you will meet on the street. Plenty are LESS deserving than a lot of heroes. Granted I'd put Bast on the more positive end of the spectrum of gods we've seen in the MU but still... it's not like she's around to offer a better alternative to Storm at the moment. If you're Wakanda and Storm is here and Storm is at least TRYING then I think certainly see the upside in giving her your support.[/QUOTE]
Bast is not supposed to show up. It's the whole point of having a black panther.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3741038]Bast is not supposed to show up. It's the whole point of having a black panther.[/QUOTE]
And if that same Black Panther is telling you to worship Storm, a goddess that does show up, then why the heck not? Even Basts number one guy is pushing for it.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3741048]And if that same Black Panther is telling you to worship Storm, a goddess that does show up, then why the heck not? Even Basts number one guy is pushing for it.[/QUOTE]
Because at that point the position of Black Panther should be dissolved and Storm should take over as religious idol and protector. The middle man is no longer needed.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3741058]Because at that point the position of Black Panther should be dissolved and Storm should take over as religious idol and protector. The middle man is no longer needed.[/QUOTE]
Why dissolve anything? You're better off with a Storm AND a Black Panther than just one or the other. The more protectors you have, the better. Since they're dating, they're essentially a package deal anyways.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3741065]Why dissolve anything? You're better off with a Storm AND a Black Panther than just one or the other. The more protectors you have, the better. Since they're dating, they're essentially a package deal anyways.[/QUOTE]
The office is a result of the being the "Panther Cult". If Bast isn't around or uninterested in Wakanda, what is the point of the position? Ramanda said Tchalla is still King because that is the will of Bast. If she isn't around, Coates can do a two for one and eliminate that too. Lol
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[QUOTE=Cville;3741068]The office is a result of the being the "Panther Cult". If Bast isn't around or uninterested in Wakanda, what is the point of the position? Ramanda said Tchalla is still King because that is the will of Bast. If she isn't around, Coates can do a two for one and eliminate that too. Lol[/QUOTE]
The point of the position is to have someone protecting them. Which T'Challa does. So everyone's good at the moment. We can add Storm without subtracting anything else to have an overall net gain.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3740972]New York (and the States in general) is different. Most people don't believe in pantheon gods. Even Iron Man at times questioned whether or not Thor was an actual god. So New Yorkers, he's just a super hero. And if you're part of the judeo Christian belief (which is the predominant religionious belif in the States for those who are religious), you're flat out not supposed to believe in other gods.
Wakandans believe in Pantheon gods, so multiple gods existing is sort of built in. It's just a matter of picking one to worship. And right now, Storm looks like a pretty good option. They were calling her a goddess before Coates, so there's a precident to it.[/QUOTE]
This is BS and quite frankly reeks of the whole "dumb savage" trope Storm's "godhood" was built upon in the first place.
The Wakandans know and have interacted with their Gods. Yes, they have a pantheon of gods, that doesn't mean they just accept new ones just because they are available.
They have never been shown to just accept the beliefs of others and to do so would run contrary to the characterization of Wakandans as weary of outsiders in general.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3741103]The point of the position is to have someone protecting them. Which T'Challa does. So everyone's good at the moment. We can add Storm without subtracting anything else to have an overall net gain.[/QUOTE]
A position that needs the Bast seal of approval. It's not like it is something Tchalla just made up. No Bast no Black Panther. Maybe Tchalla can become an avatar for Storm. We should start working on a title for the position. Something weather related maybe.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3741026]Storm has helped Wakanda in the past. She saved Wakanda from the Shadow King in Worlds Apart for example.[/quote]
Why was the Shadow King there again?
For Storm. Only because of Storm. Bast even said so. Doesn't coutn as a save if you are the cause lol
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Would Wakandan have faith in a goddess that sometimes loses? THat's a fair question. But on the flip side you can also ask whether you'd have more faith in a goddess who got knocked down but gets back up, or a goddess like Bast who hasn't shown up to the fight at all for the last 3-4 catastrophies? To be blunt, faith in Bast at this point nets you nothing. Faith in Storm will literally save you. Literally. It's a case of helping her try to help them.
As from as Storm being human and making mistakes... in the MU at least, I'd trust a competent hero over 99% of the gods out there anyday. Thor is more the exception than the rule. Being a god in the MU doesn't mean you're infallible or anything like that... it just means you're powerful and you've lived a long time. Plenty of gods are just as flawed as any random guy you will meet on the street. Plenty are LESS deserving than a lot of heroes. Granted I'd put Bast on the more positive end of the spectrum of gods we've seen in the MU but still... it's not like she's around to offer a better alternative to Storm at the moment. If you're Wakanda and Storm is here and Storm is at least TRYING then I think certainly see the upside in giving her your support.[/QUOTE]
That isn't how faith in a god or religion works. You have faith she is there. You have faith that things are happening for a reason. You praise her when things go right because "she was there with us." That is the crux of religion... you place your faith in a God you can't see or hear.
Bast, as far as I've read, has never made herself seen to "normal" people. Of the people still alive in Wakanda, only T'challa, Shuri, Storm, and Ramonda have ever truly seen her. The rest of the Wakanda population acts on faith in there god.
That is what I am getting at. Coates has changed the whole nature of religion in Wakanda. And he changed it just for ONE character that isnt' even part of the mythos. They don't have to act on faith... they SEE storm. Everywhere. All over the world. He has changed the whole belief system in Wakanda. That is a HUGE change done just so Storm gets a moment.
There is also huge story potential there but, it won't likely get touched on because it will make Storm look bad (just like it makes Thor and other Gods look bad when writers use the "prayer" storylines). If someting goes wrong in Waknada... Wakandans don't have to go, "Bast allowed this for a reason..." they go, "STORM WHERE THE F WERE YOU MY FAMILY ALL DIED!"
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[QUOTE=Cville;3741160]A position that needs the Bast seal of approval. It's not like it is something Tchalla just made up. No Bast no Black Panther. Maybe Tchalla can become an avatar for Storm. We should start working on a title for the position. Something weather related maybe.[/QUOTE]
T'Challa has Bast seal of approval. He gave it to him before went awol. Just because she took off for parts unknown doesn't mean having a BP isn't awfully handy to have around.