[QUOTE=The_Panther;87005]YES would be the answer.[/QUOTE]
Please elaborate.
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[QUOTE=The_Panther;87005]YES would be the answer.[/QUOTE]
Please elaborate.
[QUOTE=The_Panther;87005]YES would be the answer.[/QUOTE]
I'd have to disagree. The Black Panther isn't much without the Wakanda backstory. Yeah they could have a cat guy run around with the same skills/powers , but Wakanda is what makes him. The nation is what is most important to him. The reason why he goes so hard is for the country to still stand. I think that in the MCU it would be even more relevant due to the "Age of Miracles". It wasn't a big deal when it was just men with gun powder outclassed by their (Wakanda) technology. There's super soldiers, alien invaders, demi-gods, and all kind of madness appearing in less than a 5-10 year span. This is the perfect time for an isolated nation to come out to play and not just Wakanda , but all the wacky nations they have.
Woiuld there be a Thor without Asgard, a Namor without Atlantis or a Hercules without Olympus?
I think we all know the answer to the above posed question so I'm really curious as to why anyone would suggest that there would be a Black Panther without Wakanda? :confused:
The fact of the matter is that whether detractors like it or not, Wakanda as a concept, has been part of the 616 MU right from 1966 onwards.
T'Challa and his people are here to stay regardless of countless deconstructions, editorial/writer shenanigans, MCU snubs and every bit of shade thrown in their direction so if some folks can't handle this fact, that's too bad for them.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;88203]Woiuld there be a Thor without Asgard, a Namor without Atlantis or a Hercules without Olympus?
I think we all know the answer to the above posed question so I'm really curious as to why anyone would suggest that there would be a Black Panther without Wakanda? :confused:
The fact of the matter is that whether detractors like it or not, Wakanda as a concept, has been part of the 616 MU right from 1966 onwards.
T'Challa and his people are here to stay regardless of countless deconstructions, editorial/writer shenanigans, MCU snubs and every bit of shade thrown in their direction so if some folks can't handle this fact, that's too bad for them.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. He would be a totally different character without Wakanda. We have seen BP in Hell's Kitchen, the book was great but we know that wasn't the best T'challa and in that the Kingpin of Wakanda was probably the best arc.
Do you guys get the feeling that T'Challa's totally going to end up taking Steve's side in New Avengers?
This last issue, when he's talking to his ancestors he echos his "I'll do what I must" reply in response to thier urging to kill any opposition to Wakanda's well being (the same words he used when he betrayed Steve).
I think Panther's totally primed to be the voice of sanity for the Illuminati here, coming full circle and taking up the mantle of higher morality (a post left vacant with Steves expulsion).
What do you guys think?
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;87441]Please elaborate.[/QUOTE]
To some degree it is done time and time again. Every deconstruction, everytime he loses his crown. He is still what makes him, him. Honorable, a man with integrity, intelligence, skillful,and a force to be reckoned with. All these things and more. Presently he is barely in Wakanda and he is doing things that are Multiverse important. I'm not saying that he is can solely and completely exist without some mention of Wakanda. But presently he is BAST's Champion and that takes precedence over even Wakanda. Look at Blue Marvel he is in the bottom of the ocean and he is relevent (well at least in the fan's eyes). I would totally like to see BP back to the way I grew up with. But I like the fact that he is important on many levels presently.
Priest said it best (in one of the more recently posted pictures) he is more then a person in a kitty suit.
But thanks to Hudlin this is how I see him.
[video=youtube;7Y_JNBy38yI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y_JNBy38yI[/video]
[QUOTE=klinton;88522]Do you guys get the feeling that T'Challa's totally going to end up taking Steve's side in New Avengers?
This last issue, when he's talking to his ancestors he echos his "I'll do what I must" reply in response to thier urging to kill any opposition to Wakanda's well being (the same words he used when he betrayed Steve).
I think Panther's totally primed to be the voice of sanity for the Illuminati here, coming full circle and taking up the mantle of higher morality (a post left vacant with Steves expulsion).
What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]
I don't think any of the Illuminati want to blow up a world. They're all just planning for worst case scenario. I think that in the end, they won't do it because they will weigh the consequences of their actions and at the last moment they will find another way.
[QUOTE=klinton;88522]Do you guys get the feeling that T'Challa's totally going to end up taking Steve's side in New Avengers?
This last issue, when he's talking to his ancestors he echos his "I'll do what I must" reply in response to thier urging to kill any opposition to Wakanda's well being (the same words he used when he betrayed Steve).
I think Panther's totally primed to be the voice of sanity for the Illuminati here, coming full circle and taking up the mantle of higher morality (a post left vacant with Steves expulsion).
What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]
I could see that happening. But with Steve remembering AND him seemingly informing Widow, Hawkeye, Thor, Hyperion, ect of what is now going on... I could see the Illuminati getting a lot bigger. Something has got to give there... You are not going to be able to Mind Wipe Thor lol.
Even though... I could totally see Thor helping. After all... Thor always cares about Midgard.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;88660]I don't think any of the Illuminati want to blow up a world. They're all just planning for worst case scenario. I think that in the end, they won't do it because they will weigh the consequences of their actions and at the last moment they will find another way.[/QUOTE]
Agree with Marvell. That is what a lot of the trol... I mean board members are missing. They don't want to do it. But they are PREPARED to do it if it means saving their Earth. I mean, look at Strange. He didn't ask for the power to destroy a world. He asked for the power to MOVE it. Huge difference.
Is that somewhat selfish to destroy another world? Well... yeah. But... it is a billion on 616 Earth that die including their friends, families, loved ones... or it is a billion on the other Earth that dies that doesn't have their friends and families on it. *shrugs* Lifes a bitch sometimes.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;88660]I don't think any of the Illuminati want to blow up a world. They're all just planning for worst case scenario. I think that in the end, they won't do it because they will weigh the consequences of their actions and at the last moment they will find another way.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I don't think they want to. I think they see it as inevitable though.
I have a hunch that T'Challa is going to be the one who steps in and says "we can't do this thing". This last issue of New Avengers was [I]so[/I] loaded. It was fully the best issue yet!
They're off to kill the Justice League after all! This...can't end well.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;83513]Couldn't the same be said of Namor and Atlantis? Atlantis doesn't welcome outsiders, has a heroic leader and cares little for the rest of the world. And both Wakanda and Atlantis share something in common, they both have witnessed abuse by the rest of the world either directly or indirectly.[/QUOTE]
Well, Atlantis doesn't exactly fit the mold I was describing. Atlantis is fantastical. On top of that, whereas the people of Wakanda are essentially passive about the world around them, Atlanteans have show obvious malice and ill-will. Namor still does on occasion, and he's supposedly on our side. Readers essentially don't expect Atlantis to help because it's kinda like a villain nation. Their biggest problem, however, is that they all need to breath underwater. It's much harder to establish trade or acquire, say, U.N. representation.
[QUOTE=ExcelsiorPrime;83524]Also a lot could be said of first introductions. To Wakandans the outside world equals exploitation. Klaw wanting the vibranium. Doom basically wanting the vibranium.
Yet wakanda never took the offensive.
I believe Atlantis has tried to do that numerous times--and they don't have the stigma Wakanda does. I just see a more intense social critique on one fantasy realm than others.[/QUOTE]
It kinda is. It's a critique on how fantasy realms don't really match up with the real world--even a "real" world populated by fantastical characters. We get this with Namor, Arkon, the Savage Land, etc.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;83525]But here's the thing Joe, T'Challa used to be a King pre Doomwar but for some reason, some chose to pigeonhole him into the straightjacket constraints of superherodom that the likes of Black Bolt or Namor are not constrained by.[/quote]
I disagree there. Namor is very much constrained by superherodom. It's rare for him to be a good King and good hero at the same time--to the point that the generally fails at both. (That's not to say he fails at being heroic, but it's become increasingly less likely for Namor to handle a problem alone.)
[QUOTE]As you rightly pointed out, Doom is monarch who does help occasionally for his own personal reasons but he ironically gets treated like some sort of anti-heroic type character which I've learnt to find mildly amusing over the last few years.[/QUOTE]
Like T'Challa, he too has lost his throne before. Weirdly, in one case, under similar circumstances--to put him in another place, another setting, with new supporting characters, in order to act as a hero. That bit was actually done twice, in both the post-Heroes Reborn Doom material and in Doom 2099.
[quote]As for Wakanda keeping themselves to themselves, based on what we've seen so far when they do open their borders to help others, they'd be better off going full isolationist moving forward.
T'Challa cared so much about the world that he offered the Avengers sanctuary within Wakanda's borders during AvX and what did he get for it?
The near wholesale slaughter of his fellow country men and women.[/QUOTE]
That event in AvX was horrific, to be sure. However, if you compare it to other recent encounters they've had outside their own influence, they come out ahead. They repelled the Skrulls in Secret Invasion. They repelled Thanos's attack. Onome's learning a lot as part of the Future Foundation. And the conflict with Doom counts in both columns--on the one hand, they lost vibranium, but on the other, Doom was repelled.
I think these events show that they should be more willing, not less, to working with foreign powers. They keep getting invaded, and there's only so long they can keep defending themselves, especially since they've now entered a war with another nation. Admittedly, the loss of vibranium makes the country less appealing to a would-be conqueror, but it's still an important point.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;83577]Yeah BCB, I've said it too many times. T'Challa is not a superhero. He can be heroic which he is but in the sense of the word, he's not a superhero. Same as Namor or Black Bolt. Neither of them gets called to the mat for their isolationism nor their lack of effort to help the rest of the world. Namor could feed the world but no one calls him out on it.[/quote]
Namor, I can't give you. He's never been consistently isolationist. Black Bolt and the Inhumans do indeed practice isolationism. But again, we hit that barrier of accessibility. The Inhumans were outside society, by the decisions of their ancestors. After interacting with the world, they decided to retreat from it and go to the moon, splitting themselves from the world in the much the same way as the Eternals. People have complained about this decision, largely because it closes the characters off for frequent use as well, but also because it limits the kinds of stories one can tell. It's really cool that Marvel had a city on the moon, sure. Even better that it's filled with crazy superpowers. But it's always been a blow to the Inhumans' significance.
Ultimately, the Inhumans did open up channels and remove their isolationism, just not in regards to Earth--they went to space and became a galactal superpower. Now they've come home and, with Attilan destroyed, have no choice but to interact with Earth, its nations, and its people. It's a bold new direction.
I think Wakanda suffers from the similar problem. We got used to them being on their own, but after so many years, it'd be nice to see a different approach.
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;84106]The point is that some have problems with the allegedly noble Wakandan letting for example the slave trade to thier neighbors happen when they probably had gatling guns and tanks by that time.
There are reasons, but its a completely different issue than "Why don't Space Alien Uber People, Space Alien Freak People, Gods and Fish People care about humans?"
Its "Why don't these Africans over there care about these Africans over here?"
At least with the classic origin, none of this is an issue because [B]the Wakandans don't get high tech until T'Challa's reign[/B]. Its just assumed that they were just simply well-hidden before.
So pre Priest the early Wakandans [B]weren't in a postion to do anything about the outside world[/B].[/QUOTE]
Do Wakandans at least allow political asylum? That would be a nice rebuttal for such situations.
I do agree that it can seem odd that they don't even help their neighbor nations. I understand it to a degree, and feel confident they'd get involved if such conflicts escalated to where Wakanda might become a target, but it does make them seem cold in a way. Also, a technological superpower establishing trade with nations that are not could lead to things like we saw in the first Iron Man film, with terrorist cells using and abusing incoming technological supplies.
Come to think of it, I think George Washington would approve of Wakanda's ideals.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;86987]Would there be a T'Challa without Wakanda?
A simple yes or no response will suffice.[/QUOTE]You don't actually mean that, because then you say...
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;87441]Please elaborate.[/QUOTE]
Regardless, I think he would. He'd be a noticeably different character, certainly, but I think many of the traits we've come to appreciate in T'Challa would still be there.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;88203]Woiuld there be a Thor without Asgard, a Namor without Atlantis or a Hercules without Olympus?
I think we all know the answer to the above posed question so I'm really curious as to why anyone would suggest that there would be a Black Panther without Wakanda? :confused:
The fact of the matter is that whether detractors like it or not, Wakanda as a concept, has been part of the 616 MU right from 1966 onwards.
T'Challa and his people are here to stay regardless of countless deconstructions, editorial/writer shenanigans, MCU snubs and every bit of shade thrown in their direction so if some folks can't handle this fact, that's too bad for them.[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone has called for the complete and total destruction of Wakanda or its removal from Marvel Earth, and if they have, it's a very small minority of readers.
I will say that, yes, we can have Thor without Asgard, Namor without Atlantis, and Herc without Olympus, because those have all been fundamental parts of the character at various iterations.
Smoking Joe Acro...
Seriously dude you need to post more often!
This is like the referee grabbing the basketball and dunking right in the middle of the game... Sure it's awkward at first but once the shock of it all is over you might as well keep going all in! ;)
Do Mods moderate themselves? :cool:
Anywho...
I think that the overall tease of Wakanda is that they have never been conquered which sits out there like a sore thumb!
If you do have them conquered at any point that spoils their whole concept so you have to navigate pseudo invasions just to keep them relevant to the rest of the Marvel universe!
Most invasions if they are successful would involve ransacking of the cities, the killing of the men while sparing the women for unspeakable acts!
Comic books have to be careful how they go about something like this particularly where it concerns a fictional nation full of black folks!
Namor's people can be canon fodder because in most people's eyes they are fish food where as with Wakanda the real life colonization of various African nations or tribes is a sensitive issue with a historical record behind it!
There is no Roots or 12 Years A Slave vibe with Atlantis as there would be with Wakanda to touch a nerve or two!
Wakandans being xenophobic can come off the page and touch you where as with the other fictional nations it doesn't matter if a random Latverian is harmed during an act of war because they don't have that true racial component to highlight this!
[url]http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?122991&p=1087463&viewfull=1#post1087463[/url]
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;88203]Woiuld there be a Thor without Asgard, a Namor without Atlantis or a Hercules without Olympus?
I think we all know the answer to the above posed question so I'm really curious as to why anyone would suggest that there would be a Black Panther without Wakanda? :confused:
The fact of the matter is that whether detractors like it or not, Wakanda as a concept, has been part of the 616 MU right from 1966 onwards.
T'Challa and his people are here to stay regardless of countless deconstructions, editorial/writer shenanigans, MCU snubs and every bit of shade thrown in their direction so if some folks can't handle this fact, that's too bad for them.[/QUOTE]
One of the main parts of T'challa as a character is that he is a king, he might be a king without a throne, King of The Dead etc. Wakanda gives him his Kingdom and Kingship, just like Asgard gives Thor his godhood and princedom. the concepts of T'challa and Wakanda are tied to each other.
I have a question of my own, why would a fan want T'challa without Wakanda?
[QUOTE=klinton;88522]Do you guys get the feeling that T'Challa's totally going to end up taking Steve's side in New Avengers?
This last issue, when he's talking to his ancestors he echos his "I'll do what I must" reply in response to thier urging to kill any opposition to Wakanda's well being (the same words he used when he betrayed Steve).
I think Panther's totally primed to be the voice of sanity for the Illuminati here, coming full circle and taking up the mantle of higher morality (a post left vacant with Steves expulsion).
What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]
Brotha Klinton, you may be onto something with this observation of yours especially as Hickman stated right from the beginning that T'Challa was going to be the "moral hub" of the New Avengers ongoing narrative.
At the end of the day, only Hickman himself knows how things will play out so I guess we'll all have to wait and see what happens.
[QUOTE=The_Panther;88552]To some degree it is done time and time again. Every deconstruction, everytime he loses his crown. He is still what makes him, him. Honorable, a man with integrity, intelligence, skillful,and a force to be reckoned with. All these things and more. Presently he is barely in Wakanda and he is doing things that are Multiverse important. I'm not saying that he is can solely and completely exist without some mention of Wakanda. But presently he is BAST's Champion and that takes precedence over even Wakanda. Look at Blue Marvel he is in the bottom of the ocean and he is relevent (well at least in the fan's eyes). I would totally like to see BP back to the way I grew up with. But I like the fact that he is important on many levels presently.
Priest said it best (in one of the more recently posted pictures) he is more then a person in a kitty suit.
But thanks to Hudlin this is how I see him.
[video=youtube;7Y_JNBy38yI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y_JNBy38yI[/video][/QUOTE]
I must be really mentally tired at the moment because I'm trying to understand what you're saying as regards T'Challa's portrayal in [B]Who Is The Black Panther[/B].
Are you sayng that Hudlin stripped away the mystique surrounding the BP character during his run? :confused:
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;86987]Agreed on both counts.
However, I'm not particularly suprised at the fact that some would rather see Wakanda dependent on Western influence/intervention as a prerequisite for gaining relevance within the 616 MU.
And for those who question the 10,000 years of Wakandan history and it's importance to T'Challa's history let me pose a question...
Would there be a T'Challa without Wakanda?
A simple yes or no response will suffice.[/QUOTE]
No........
[QUOTE=Joe Acro;88847]Well, Atlantis doesn't exactly fit the mold I was describing. Atlantis is fantastical. On top of that, whereas the people of Wakanda are essentially passive about the world around them, Atlanteans have show obvious malice and ill-will. Namor still does on occasion, and he's supposedly on our side. Readers essentially don't expect Atlantis to help because it's kinda like a villain nation. Their biggest problem, however, is that they all need to breath underwater. It's much harder to establish trade or acquire, say, U.N. representation.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't Atlantis help feed the world? Also Atlanteans have the tech to survive on the surface world and some don't need it so that really isn't a hindrance. And what do most people know about Wakanda? Nothing so what would they expect Wakanda to do? Has the world asked for their help in anything? These are questions that need to be looked at before judging Wakanda's willingness to help in any situation. And since Wakanda has practiced isolationism for so long, how can the rest of the world assume that it is or isn't a villainous nation?
[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;87089]If a writer were really BOSS he or she would study African linguistics so well that they invented a Wakandan language as if other languages came from Wakanda first!
Like the Navi in Avatar or the various languages used in Star Wars... If you have a 10,000 year head start everyone else would be playing catch up to you not the other way around!
What is missing from the world building of Wakanda is that extra special something you see added to the likes of Lord of The Rings or World of Warcraft!
My wife speaks about 8 different dialects from the South African region although I think she might be stretching the truth on that... Lol!
But when she speaks to family back home over the phone she switches up the flow depending upon if she is talking to one of her brothers, her sisters or her mom!
I hear words from Afrikaans to Sotho to English mangled up there between laughs and strange glances at me from time to time... When I learn to translate that I'm gonna check that ish she aint slick! ;)
The Black Panther as a character should demand that you have at least some basic understandings of Africa beyond the basic Egyptian coffee table books![/QUOTE]
I agree with this adding a language would improve Wakanda as a setting. I would be like how Klingon as a language in Star Trek added a new layer to the setting and even created it own branch of fandom.
[url]http://moviepilot.com/posts/2014/05/12/the-world-s-richest-superheroes-1419723?lt_source=external,manual#!OrSrK[/url]
[url]http://www.ranker.com/list/20-richest-comic-book-characters-of-all-time/worlds-richest-people-lists?utm_expid=16418821-9.Bl7_VsXZQ6i2wC9rw_ppGQ.0&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ranker.com%2Flist%2F20-richest-comic-book-characters-of-all-time%2Fworlds-richest-people-lists[/url]
nothing we dont know but cool none the less, especially when you consider the riches man ever was African as well!
[IMG]https://31.media.tumblr.com/4b96d6499f0bbb4931b6959a982ca4c1/tumblr_n5cki91Eif1tn3h9ho1_500.jpg[/IMG]
I love this look
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;90468]I must be really mentally tired at the moment because I'm trying to understand what you're saying as regards T'Challa's portrayal in [B]Who Is The Black Panther[/B].
Are you sayng that Hudlin stripped away the mystique surrounding the BP character during his run? :confused:[/QUOTE]
Based on Hudlin's portrayal of the BP was Ubermensch among Ubermensches. Even without the Heart Shaped Herb. With the PG's blessing he became even more. So even without Wakanda he would be the same person he is. He is just a man. No I'm not saying that Hudlin stripped anything away. The original question was...
[B]And for those who question the 10,000 years of Wakandan history and it's importance to T'Challa's history let me pose a question...
Would there be a T'Challa without Wakanda?
A simple yes or no response will suffice.[/B]
I answered yes.
Then I got.
[B]Please elaborate.[/B]
And my response was that even without Wakanda he would be the same charactor.
[QUOTE=UltimateTy;91323][IMG]https://31.media.tumblr.com/4b96d6499f0bbb4931b6959a982ca4c1/tumblr_n5cki91Eif1tn3h9ho1_500.jpg[/IMG]
I love this look[/QUOTE]
Whoa! That looks badass. That should be a statue or action figure.
if this has been posted already…. then i must apologize
[QUOTE][url]http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/05/16/some-character-and-costume-details-for-the-avengers-age-of-ultron/[/url]
[url]http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/exclusive-spoilery-scoop-tidbits-on-avengers-2-ultron-costumes-more[/url]
JoBlo preface their report with some SPOILER WARNINGS so I’ll go ahead and do the same, though I agree with their assessment that there’s nothing in here that will really “spoil” the experience of watching The Avengers: Age of Ultron.
Anyway, those guys have got their hands on some character-specific details about the film. And there’s also some news on what the Avengers will be wearing.
Let’s start with Ultron himself. JB say there will be three versions of Ultron throughout the film, with James Spader doing mo-cap to play at least one version. His purpose in the film is getting his hands on more Vibranium so he can keep upgrading himself. This of course leads to speculation that we’ll be seeing some tease of Black Panther since Vibranium is from Wakanda in the comics (and they did some South Africa filming).[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=FriendRoss;91775]if this has been posted already…. then i must apologize[/QUOTE]
I hope it pans out like that. I'm not going to be pessimistic about it, just a wait and see approach.
it makes sense to have vibranium in there… it HAS TO BE IN THERE… it makes little sense for adimantium to be in the MCU as its biggest user is not on their label….also you go read enough early vision or ultron panther is all over that piece with quick silver and scarlet witch
clearly ultron will be upgrading himself throughout the movie… thats going to mean precious metals
i can't just shake the feeling a big tease is coming…. as a married man I'm very aware of this pending feeling
[QUOTE=FriendRoss;91801]it makes sense to have vibranium in there… it HAS TO BE IN THERE… it makes little sense for adimantium to be in the MCU as its biggest user is not on their label….also you go read enough early vision or ultron panther is all over that piece with quick silver and scarlet witch
clearly ultron will be upgrading himself throughout the movie… thats going to mean precious metals
i can't just shake the feeling a big tease is coming…. as a married man I'm very aware of this pending feeling[/QUOTE]
Lol. Married men either have a sense of impending doom or ultimate joy. Very little in between.
It does make sense for it to work out the way you say. I could see a tease as well. But will they do it? That's the question.
[QUOTE=FriendRoss;91801]it makes sense to have vibranium in there… it HAS TO BE IN THERE… it makes little sense for adimantium to be in the MCU as its biggest user is not on their label….also you go read enough early vision or ultron panther is all over that piece with quick silver and scarlet witch
clearly ultron will be upgrading himself throughout the movie… thats going to mean precious metals
i can't just shake the feeling a big tease is coming…. as a married man I'm very aware of this pending feeling[/QUOTE]
They can't use the word adamantium anyway.
[QUOTE=UltimateTy;91323][IMG]https://31.media.tumblr.com/4b96d6499f0bbb4931b6959a982ca4c1/tumblr_n5cki91Eif1tn3h9ho1_500.jpg[/IMG]
I love this look[/QUOTE]
I may have to make that my avy
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;91783]I hope it pans out like that. I'm not going to be pessimistic about it, just a wait and see approach.[/QUOTE]
Oh I'm going to be very pessimistic! Vibranium will have been inveted by Tony Starks great granddad and the Marvel Movie-verse will have ulton trying to locate where Tonys grandpops stored the reserves somewhere in Boston.
[QUOTE=Ekie;92092]Oh I'm going to be very pessimistic! Vibranium will have been inveted by Tony Starks great granddad and the Marvel Movie-verse will have ulton trying to locate where Tonys grandpops stored the reserves somewhere in Boston.[/QUOTE]
Lol, make sure you get credit when they run with this idea.
[QUOTE=Ekie;92092]Oh I'm going to be very pessimistic! Vibranium will have been inveted by Tony Starks great granddad and the Marvel Movie-verse will have ulton trying to locate where Tonys grandpops stored the reserves somewhere in Boston.[/QUOTE]
By shame of Bast! Don't give them any ideas!
[QUOTE=The_Panther;88552]To some degree it is done time and time again. Every deconstruction, everytime he loses his crown. He is still what makes him, him. Honorable, a man with integrity, intelligence, skillful,and a force to be reckoned with. All these things and more. Presently he is barely in Wakanda and he is doing things that are Multiverse important. I'm not saying that he is can solely and completely exist without some mention of Wakanda. But presently he is BAST's Champion and that takes precedence over even Wakanda.[B][COLOR="#0000FF"] Look at Blue Marvel he is in the bottom of the ocean and he is relevent (well at least in the fan's eyes).[/COLOR][/B] I would totally like to see BP back to the way I grew up with. But I like the fact that he is important on many levels presently.
Priest said it best (in one of the more recently posted pictures) he is more then a person in a kitty suit.
But thanks to Hudlin this is how I see him.
[video=youtube;7Y_JNBy38yI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y_JNBy38yI[/video][/QUOTE]
Dat "bottom of d ocean" is BM's base located in d marianna trench (deepest point on earth...der r all kinds of [I]'fish'[/I]der dat hv nvr bn documntd & is surrounded with mystery) which is situatd within d dragon's traingle/devil's sea (basically d bermuda traingle of d pacific).
Dat "& he is relevnt" 2 us/SZ/BM fans bcuz he aint a US focusd supahero but a "global protectr" & d fact dat he's a father of 3, widower, Uatu's closest bud, has koo l but unik specific non-altering pwrs(antimatta is supreme), intellect, riddled with moral dilemas & emotional trauma whr neithr his immense supapwrs nor his intellect can help & he isnt perfect but prone 2 mk mistkes(which mks his very human unlyk d d all-perfect-godly-wanna-b's &BM tks full accountability 4 his actions nt blaming sum [I]'alter-ego'[/I]:wink: 4 his problms ) but he still ventures on mks his fascin8g in addtn 2 discvring an entirely nu elemnt as well as an entirely nu dimension....BM is a living core of cre8vity.
2 bad Marvl refused 2 let KG do a mini starring Tchaka, BM & Bradley....it wud hv bn SUPREMATIC!
[QUOTE][B]Originally postd by Joe Acro:[/B]
Namor, I can't give you. He's never been consistently isolationist. Black Bolt and the Inhumans do indeed practice isolationism. But again, we hit that barrier of accessibility. The Inhumans were outside society, by the decisions of their ancestors. After interacting with the world, they decided to retreat from it and go to the moon, splitting themselves from the world in the much the same way as the Eternals. People have complained about this decision, largely because it closes the characters off for frequent use as well, but also because it limits the kinds of stories one can tell. It's really cool that Marvel had a city on the moon, sure. Even better that it's filled with crazy superpowers. But it's always been a blow to the Inhumans' significance.
Ultimately, the Inhumans did open up channels and remove their isolationism, just not in regards to Earth--they went to space and became a galactal superpower. Now they've come home and, with Attilan destroyed, have no choice but to interact with Earth, its nations, and its people. It's a bold new direction.
[B]I think Wakanda suffers from the similar problem. We got used to them being on their own, but after so many years, it'd be nice to see a different approach.[/B][/QUOTE]
Well gvn dat d whole open interctn with d rest of earth has alrdy bn full emplyd 2 d Inhumans we/SZ wud suggestn & quite honestly prefr Wakanda 2 only interact with othr nations on a clandestine lvl.....so it isnt exactly a fully open interctn with d rest of d wrld but still nt entirely closed either.
And d main reasn Wakanda is so isolationist in d 1st plc is bcuz of hw rampantly outsiders kp trying 2 invade dem AND d wrld cloak-n-dagger politix & ulterior motives btwn nations & [B]within[/B] diffrnt supapwrs(superheros & supavillains included)...y wud dey/Wakanda wnt 2 expose demselves 2 all dat?
And wudnt Wakanda b exposing demselves 2 mo villany &easier access 2 those with cruel intentns 4 Wakanda if dey fully interactd with d outside wrld dan dey do now or @ least hv bn in isolatn?
[QUOTE=SilverZeal;92306]Dat "bottom of d ocean" is BM's base located in d marianna trench (deepest point on earth...der r all kinds of [I]'fish'[/I]der dat hv nvr bn documntd & is surrounded with mystery) which is situatd within d dragon's traingle/devil's sea (basically d bermuda traingle of d pacific).
Dat "& he is relevnt" 2 us/SZ/BM fans bcuz he aint a US focusd supahero but a "global protectr" & d fact dat he's a father of 3, widower, Uatu's closest bud, has koo l but unik specific non-altering pwrs(antimatta is supreme), intellect, riddled with moral dilemas & emotional trauma whr neithr his immense supapwrs nor his intellect can help & he isnt perfect but prone 2 mk mistkes(which mks his very human unlyk d d all-perfect-godly-wanna-b's &BM tks full accountability 4 his actions nt blaming sum [I]'alter-ego'[/I]:wink: 4 his problms ) but he still ventures on mks his fascin8g in addtn 2 discvring an entirely nu elemnt as well as an entirely nu dimension....BM is a living core of cre8vity.
2 bad Marvl refused 2 let KG do a mini starring Tchaka, BM & Bradley....it wud hv bn SUPREMATIC![/QUOTE]
I used BM as an example that even if he was without a base of operations, or government ties he is still BM. BP could be the same way. Both could be relevent across the multiverse. For that charator type BM is my favorite (superman archtype). Take away the anti matter generator (that he is) he is still a super genius , olympic athlete, a highly dedicated person, that can see the big picture.
Part 2 of my analysis on Priest's run.
[URL="http://robreedwrites.wordpress.com/2014/05/18/journey-through-comics-priests-black-panther-part-2/"]Journey Through Comics: Priest's Black Panther Part 2[/URL]
As I mention at the beginning of the post, I bit off a little more than I can chew, and I'm having some formatting issues that I'm working on, so this just goes over issue #2 right now. I'm going to try to get that solved for next week.
Once again, I'm definitely open to any observations/criticisms. One of my own concerns is that I'm focusing heavily on Ross right now, which I want to do to show what he's functioning as narrative-wise, but hopefully not at the expense of everything else. I'm hoping it will get more balanced as he fades more into the background.
[QUOTE=robreedwrites;92691]Part 2 of my analysis on Priest's run.
[URL="http://robreedwrites.wordpress.com/2014/05/18/journey-through-comics-priests-black-panther-part-2/"]Journey Through Comics: Priest's Black Panther Part 2[/URL]
As I mention at the beginning of the post, I bit off a little more than I can chew, and I'm having some formatting issues that I'm working on, so this just goes over issue #2 right now. I'm going to try to get that solved for next week.
Once again, I'm definitely open to any observations/criticisms. One of my own concerns is that I'm focusing heavily on Ross right now, which I want to do to show what he's functioning as narrative-wise, but hopefully not at the expense of everything else. I'm hoping it will get more balanced as he fades more into the background.[/QUOTE]
Enjoyed it again. One thing stood out to me however was your assessment that T'Challa did not fully trust the Dora Milaje. I don't think it was a matter of him not trusting them. They couldn't have made it this far up the ranks if he didn't trust them. I think it was just a reminder to them that they are not in Wakanda and cannot operate as they are normally expected to do.
[QUOTE=UltimateTy;91323][IMG]https://31.media.tumblr.com/4b96d6499f0bbb4931b6959a982ca4c1/tumblr_n5cki91Eif1tn3h9ho1_500.jpg[/IMG]
I love this look[/QUOTE]
Just make the pads darker..and it gets my vote.
[QUOTE=The_Panther;92639]I used BM as an example that even if he was without a base of operations, or government ties he is still BM. BP could be the same way. Both could be relevent across the multiverse. For that charator type BM is my favorite (superman archtype). Take away the anti matter generator (that he is) he is still a super genius , olympic athlete, a highly dedicated person, that can see the big picture.[/QUOTE]
T'challa/BP and BM are completely different characters. BM's identity comes from his abilities and what he went through with the government. T'challa/BPs identity comes from being King of Wakanda and the science and spiritualism of Wakanda. BM without his powers and history with the government is just a random scientist. T'challa without Wakandan kingship, science and spiritualism is a random dude in a catsuit. Different characters are built around different core concepts seperate them from their core concepts and they become nothing.
We interrupt your regularly scheduled posting to bring you the following news...
Godzilla Beyotches: Bow Down Now Or Else!
It's not about the King of The Dead... The King of The Monsters!
Today's movies are bringing that serious tone leaving all the campy loopholes in the dust!
Sometimes the most simple approach is the best way to go and with all the back and forth issues concerning Black Panther and what he should do or should be in his own movie it is often best to trim the fat and just go all in with no compromising or hesitation whatsoever!
Godzilla may be the best formula to use for Black Panther because it had that Batman Begins vibe and a nice origins set up that told a pretty good story without sucking all the air out of the room!
In a best case scenario it is wise not to be too all over the place and more direct in your approach when dealing with an iconic character with such a rich history!
Black Panther should not be like a website full of multiple links that take you everywhere else but the home page losing itself in a bundle of convolution!
If you can't define him in less than a short paragraph then you have way too many moving parts and are probably trying to appease or appeal to those who never will buy into the concept!
One should only have to Google the main character not everything associated/attached to the main character that really should belong to other franchises by default!
If your characters powers are from outside sources and yet he has his own sources and yet some other legacy source added to that then he has to have his mode of operation toned down for consumer digestion... People want to be fed not overstuffed with gallons of useless facts that they will forget as soon as the next great thing comes along!
[QUOTE=Zuri;94600]T'challa/BP and BM are completely different characters. BM's identity comes from his abilities and what he went through with the government. T'challa/BPs identity comes from being King of Wakanda and the science and spiritualism of Wakanda. BM without his powers and history with the government is just a random scientist. T'challa without Wakandan kingship, science and spiritualism is a random dude in a catsuit. Different characters are built around different core concepts seperate them from their core concepts and they become nothing.[/QUOTE]
There was a question proposed.
"And for those who question the 10,000 years of Wakandan history and it's importance to T'Challa's history let me pose a question...
Would there be a T'Challa without Wakanda?"
I answered in my opinion YES.
I was then asked to elaborate.
And I did.
I should not have to elaborate any further due to the fact that the present T'Challa is not in "Wakanda". He is on the outskirts of Wakanda. He is not King of Wakanda, he is the KotD. I'm not going to chase moving goal posts or deal with Strawmen. I agree that Wakanda is very important to T'Challa's history. But can the charactor exist without it. The answer is yes. Because it is being done now. It has been done with many other Charactors from BM to Conan the Barbarian. Their origins are merely backdrops to the the charactor.
I have answered with my opinion. In this question there is no right or wrong answer. It is one based on opinion. I'm not wrong neither is anyone else. I was asked to explain myself when initially it was stated that a simple YES OR NO would have been enough. If you can't accept my present answer then don't. Everyone on the "No" side have stated their opinions.
I would like to ask you this.
Presently there are at least 12 tribes that make up "Wakanda" do these other tribes make T'Challa or just the Panther God?
I have stated my opinion on this.
In yet another attempt to clearify
As long as T'Challa is Basts Champion he is T'Challa. Not some random person in a catsuit. Shuri isn't even that. The Panther God is not Wakanda.
To answer the question again. YES T'Challa would be T'Challa without Wakanda.