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Regardless, one way or another...
Hickman is going to ruin T'challa for good or have him rise to a place he hasn't been before.
Definitely at a cross roads with T'challa. We will see how much Hickman likes the character.
Unless Hickman is all talk in interviews and on panel... I think t'challa is about to rise to a place we haven't seen him before. I have faith, probably too much, that by the time Hickman is done, T'challa is going to be one of THE premier heroes in the MCU.
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I'm glad T'Challa didn't destroy an inhabited planet. That would have been nothing to cheer about. While it may have to be done in the future and it comes down to a choice between our Earth and another, I don't want him to be the one who tarnishes his soul with that decision.
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I think this needs reposted. Hickman is playing a very, very long game here. There is literally no reason for him to drop hints like this WAY back in his F4/FF run if he wasn't planning on delivering. Dude was laying the seeds for his Avengers run years ago..
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That day is now.
(and if Bast wanted T'challa to pull the trigger... she would have just went to Shuri instead. Bast knows T'challa is different. He was chosen because he WOULDN'T pull the trigger)
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I just realized, why was Beast suddenly uncomfortable with pushing the button? Didn't he already take out an entire world back in Astonishing X-Men?
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[QUOTE=StormXPantherQueenSaga;372520]I am very miff on the whole T'challa situation.
T'Challa has always been shown to make the hard choice.
Even when no one else would.
despite his own feelings he's always done what need to be done.
doesn't matter if it would make him look like a tyrant, call him a murderer , what was needed to be done got done
so this issue has me cringing very hard.
almost like a very bad flavor in my mouth that i kinda want to spit out
The T'Challa i know would have said nothing nor volunteer ,if he was not going to pull the trigger.
If he said he was going to do it, it would have been done, and he would have lived with the consequence.
for the lack of a better word ,this issue of NA21 was a bitchout T'Challa.
I don't like him, plz get him out of my face.[/QUOTE]
The man rejects the urging of his father and the lineage of the Black Panther, because deep in his heart he believes thatwhat he is doing the wrong thing is a "bitchout". A man goes down a dark road and realizes that he has limits to what is willing to sacrifice for his people. He values the taking of life, and thats a Punk move.
Everyone of them had found their limit except Namor. And Namor found was his shattered ego when he lost to Atlantis to Wakanda,being bitch out by Proxima and Thanos to betray Earth, and in a group of brains being the thug muscl in a group of brains. Namor is broken, and has gone further don the oad of darkness than ever before. Namor is a servant of his ego, and will do anything to appease it, TChalla is a man was willing to risk everything especially ego to save the day, but found that he could not rconsile himself with being the trigger man to billions on this planet and billions on further planets that he would have inevitable had to destroy. I guess we all have definition of manhood.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;373209]The man rejects the urging of his father and the lineage of the Black Panther, because deep in his heart he believes thatwhat he is doing the wrong thing is a "bitchout". A man goes down a dark road and realizes that he has limits to what is willing to sacrifice for his people. He values the taking of life, and thats a Punk move.
Everyone of them had found their limit except Namor. And Namor found was his shattered ego when he lost to Atlantis to Wakanda,being bitch out by Proxima and Thanos to betray Earth, and in a group of brains being the thug muscl in a group of brains. Namor is broken, and has gone further don the oad of darkness than ever before. Namor is a servant of his ego, and will do anything to appease it, TChalla is a man was willing to risk everything especially ego to save the day, but found that he could not rconsile himself with being the trigger man to billions on this planet and billions on further planets that he would have inevitable had to destroy. I guess we all have definition of manhood.[/QUOTE]
Bravo!
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Seconded. Well said, HUTHAIFA.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;373180][img]http://s9.postimg.org/vwm9rm3qn/image.jpg[/img]
[img]http://s28.postimg.org/qwhxbdui5/image.jpg[/img]
That day is now.
(and if Bast wanted T'challa to pull the trigger... she would have just went to Shuri instead. Bast knows T'challa is different. He was chosen because he WOULDN'T pull the trigger)[/QUOTE]
[quote]“I suppose, because I know where all of this is going and what's coming out the other side, I'm proudest of the fact that I'm going to leave the character in a place where he can commercially be what he has always been as a character.” [/quote]
---Hickman.
This story rides on the payoff as far as T'challa is concerned. I agree it's either going to be good, bad or maybe not enough. But at this point I don't think you can actually say either way. I just feel like everything is pointing toward T'challa being elevated to a place he hasn't before.
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;373184]I just realized, why was Beast suddenly uncomfortable with pushing the button? Didn't he already take out an entire world back in Astonishing X-Men?[/QUOTE]
Beast is in this book?
(you can really tell Beast was not Hickman's first choice. Or second choice. Probably wasn't third choice either)
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;373209]The man rejects the urging of his father and the lineage of the Black Panther, because deep in his heart he believes thatwhat he is doing the wrong thing is a "bitchout". A man goes down a dark road and realizes that he has limits to what is willing to sacrifice for his people. He values the taking of life, and thats a Punk move.
Everyone of them had found their limit except Namor. And Namor found was his shattered ego when he lost to Atlantis to Wakanda,being bitch out by Proxima and Thanos to betray Earth, and in a group of brains being the thug muscl in a group of brains. Namor is broken, and has gone further don the oad of darkness than ever before. Namor is a servant of his ego, and will do anything to appease it, TChalla is a man was willing to risk everything especially ego to save the day, but found that he could not rconsile himself with being the trigger man to billions on this planet and billions on further planets that he would have inevitable had to destroy. I guess we all have definition of manhood.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree. T'Challa isn't any less of a man because he cried or because he decided not to blow up a planet. That's took far greater courage to me.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;372784]Again, I'm good with T'challa not committing planetary genocide and killing off billions of innocent people, like he has the right to make the decision. He would have never lived that down. You are right, T'challa we know has never been faced with a situation this dire, so i'm not sure why folks continue to bring it up.[/QUOTE]
I can't speak for anyone else, but I bring it up because there's nothing compelling about a character saying their going to do something and then balking at the last minute.
There was absolutely no reason for Hickman to have had T'Challa stepping up to the plate to decimate the Great Society's Earth when he'd already pulled the trigger on a previous (albeit uninhabited) alternate earth in an previous issue of NA.
It made zero story sense to have T'Challa "volunteer" to do the "unthinkable" once again, but of course in the well established tradition of chumping his character out to prop up other characters, T'Challa is made to look like a petulant punk who turns his back on the traditions of his people at every turn no matter how his decisions end up costing Wakanda in the long run.
T'Challa speaks of having "murdered many, many times for Wakanda" but with the exception of Klaw, I cannot remember having ever seen killing anyone in continuity let alone exacting any sort of lasting revenge on characters who have had the temerity to assault Wakanda or her peoples.
[url]http://i60.tinypic.com/2ryocw0.jpg[/url]
We have seen him plea for peace with Doom, Beg Ororo not to shag Wolverine and now, cry like a streetwalker with daddy issues who's been slapped by a Pimp called Hardknock Life.
In contrast, I've seen Shuri killing the frak out've Desturi traitors and anyone else stupid enough to test Wakandan resolve so forgive me for being straight up ride or die for the Queen of Wakanda who backs her words with deeds in defense of her people without compromise or consideration to outsiders who have done nothing but seek to undermine Wakanda almost from day one.
Shuri was out there front and centre against Proxima Midnight and her invading hordes whilst T'Challa was out and about messing around with the Illuminati and then had the audacity to slap up a Hatut Zeraze for questioning his loyalty and that was all before he was revealed to be a straight up liar and borderline traitor to Wakanda by way of harbouring Namor on Wakandan soil.
For all intents and purposes, T'Challa is now as dead to me as a character as he is to his Father T'Chaka. (regardless of how this story pans out.)
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;372784] It can go either way. Hickman drops the ball on the pay off or not. The story isn't over and nothing at this point is damaging--than anything else that has occurred in the characters history. If he doesn't deliver then it will be damaging. But that is no different than any story with there is a lack of pay off.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://i58.tinypic.com/ir1c9x.jpg[/url]
Well since it's obvious that T'Challa will still be crying in NA#22, let's just agree to disagree on what constitutes as damaging to a characters viabilty moving forward.
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;372784]If you are reader and you can't take a story like this, then maybe it's time to move on from Marvel comics. This is their style, see stuff like "Born Again"--they will always go back to deconstructing a character. All main characters get deconstructed. Replaced/depowered over and over, rinse and repeat. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, T'Challa just happens to be the only character who's deconstruction has continued all the way from Doomwar all the way to Hickman's New Avengers with ZERO proper victories along the way and virtually no lasting technological advancements,character reinforcement or recognized on panel feats to speak of.
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;372784]Maybe D.C or Indy is a better fit. :shrugs:[/QUOTE]
Bro, there's really no need to come of all condescending with it.
We've known each other for way to long for you to diss me because I refuse to fall in line with the Hickman Koolaid.
I read and comment upon whatever I choose to and kick it with my peers up in here on some grown man ish.
Post [B]Doomwar[/B], this has been T'Challa's own personal [B]Groundhog Day[/B] scenario without fail.....
[IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/2rm8djt.jpg[/IMG]
so don't act like a brotha is barking up the wrong tree for raising valid concerns and observations.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;373268]
For all intents and purposes, T'Challa is now as dead to me as a character as he is to his Father T'Chaka. (regardless of how this story pans out.)
[/QUOTE]
Then why come to an appreciation page?
If this pans out like some of us are expecting/hoping, you will be right back in here jumping for joy liek the rest of us lol
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I guess I'll try my hand at this appreciation thing
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;373268]I can't speak for anyone else, but I bring it up because there's nothing compelling about a character saying their going to do something and then balking at the last minute.[/quote]
That's fair, but there is also nothing wrong with someone realizing that committing genocide is wrong and not doing it.
[quote]There was absolutely no reason for Hickman to have had T'Challa stepping up to the plate to decimate the Great Society's Earth when he'd already pulled the trigger on a previous (albeit uninhabited) alternate earth in an previous issue of NA.[/quote]
Yes there was, there is a huge difference between blowing up a uninhabited planet and one with billions of innocent people. The reason T'challa was used is that is his story funtion. Namors was coined in the first issue as the "devil". HUTHAIFA pointed out brilliantly why in his post.
[quote]It made zero story sense to have T'Challa "volunteer" to do the "unthinkable" once again, but of course in the well established tradition of chumping his character out to prop up other characters, T'Challa is made to look like a petulant punk who turns his back on the traditions of his people at every turn no matter how his decisions end up costing Wakanda in the long run.[/quote]
It made perfect sense. He has a limit. He is unwilling to kill billions of innocent people to save himself. He is unwilling to play god, and make a choice that he has no right to make. That is the entire point. He's not turning his back on traditions, he's making a personal choice that will probably be proved right Maj.
[quote]T'Challa speaks of having "murdered many, many times for Wakanda" but with the exception of Klaw, I cannot remember having ever seen killing anyone in continuity let alone exacting any sort of lasting revenge on characters who have had the temerity to assault Wakanda or her peoples.[/quote]
He has, he killed during Doomwar. He killed during Mcgregors stuff. He's not unwilling to kill. Not sure what this has to do with New Avengers though. If Namor going to get it, it will simply not be right now. :shrugs:
But he certainly has a potential death flag.
[quote]We have seen him plea for peace with Doom, Beg Ororo not to shag Wolverine and now, cry like a streetwalker with daddy issues who's been slapped by a Pimp called Hardknock Life.[/quote]
Ok. But that's only if you are holding on to a story that doesn't matter to anyone else outside of this thread. That Story was retconned is hardly referenced anywhere. Writers can't not write a story, because something like that occurred in a book that pretty much not important at all.
[quote]In contrast, I've seen Shuri killing the frak out've Desturi traitors and anyone else stupid enough to test Wakandan resolve so forgive me for being straight up ride or die for the Queen of Wakanda who backs her words with deeds in defense of her people without compromise or consideration to outsiders who have done nothing but seek to undermine Wakanda almost from day one.[/quote]
Again, that's only if you are talking about a story that doesn't matter anywhere other than this thread.
[quote]Shuri was out there front and centre against Proxima Midnight and her invading hordes whilst T'Challa was out and about messing around with the Illuminati and then had the audacity to slap up a Hatut Zeraze for questioning his loyalty and that was all before he was revealed to be a straight up liar and borderline traitor to Wakanda by way of harbouring Namor on Wakandan soil.[/quote]
T'challa was also front and center and is the one who actually defeated Black Dwarf. The only thing you are proving is Shuri was willing to fight proxima, while others choose to bend the knee to save themselves. T'challa slapped the Hatut for questioning his loyalty because he was out of line, everything he was doing, has done and has lost as pointed out in the issue was for Wakanda--not for himself. He should have got slapped. Not sure where you are getting traitor to Wakanda, He's harboring Namor in a place that HE RULES WITH BAST, Shuri has zero authority there... If Bast had a problem surely she would show up. But from the way you are putting it, there would not no drama or tension in the title. Namor being there is just part of the story.
[quote]
For all intents and purposes, T'Challa is now as dead to me as a character as he is to his Father T'Chaka. (regardless of how this story pans out.[/quote]
Ok.
[quote]
Well since it's obvious that T'Challa will still be crying in NA#22, let's just agree to disagree on what constitutes as damaging to a characters viabilty moving forward. [/quote]
Actually he's shown knocking Namor off his feet, for yapping too much.
[quote]
Yeah, T'Challa just happens to be the only character who's deconstruction has continued all the way from Doomwar all the way to Hickman's New Avengers with ZERO proper victories along the way and virtually no lasting technological advancements,character reinforcement or recognized on panel feats to speak of.[/quote]
Ok. I think I already said the issue is that he doesn't get rebuild like the rest, no? That doesn't mean NA will not. It's not finished yet.
[quote]Bro, there's really no need to come of all condescending with it.
We've known each other for way to long for you to diss me because I refuse to fall in line with the Hickman Koolaid.
I read and comment upon whatever I choose to and kick it with my peers up in here on some grown man ish.
Post [B]Doomwar[/B], this has been T'Challa's own personal [B]Groundhog Day[/B] scenario without fail.....
[IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/2rm8djt.jpg[/IMG]
so don't act like a brotha is barking up the wrong tree for raising valid concerns and observations.[/QUOTE]
Not dissing. I'm making a fair observation. This pretty much how Marvel does things. They are deconstructionist. That's has always been their style and they will always fall back to that. I have said repeatedly that the issue is they don't reconstruct T'challa correctly. But at this point we don't know if Hickman will or won't do it. His story is this one. Not Doomwar, AvX or that other stuff, this is the story he is writing. No one is asking you to fall in line. But similarly, just because others don't think it's all bad--that doesn't mean we are sipping cool aid or eating crumbs, right? I said fans are entitled to their opinions, it's clear that some fans would rather T'challa commit planetary genocide. I just happen to not be one of those fans.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;373268]I can't speak for anyone else, but I bring it up because there's nothing compelling about a character saying their going to do something and then balking at the last minute.
For all intents and purposes, T'Challa is now as dead to me as a character as he is to his Father T'Chaka. (regardless of how this story pans out.)[/QUOTE]
I sympathize. Post doomwar I've learned to divorce my self from the character to a degree that mostly makes me not that invested emotionally. Though even originally I wasn't that invested to be honest. T'challa is a character of amorphous history, characterization, and capability. Which could be said for every character to a certain degree but him especially. I'm mostly just waiting for the movie assuming it ever happens.
I also consider T'challa complicit in the destruction despite not personally initiating it. He assembled the team. Helped build the bombs (If I remember correctly). He knew what his options were and how this was probably going to end before he even reached their world.
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Actually, he didn't assemble the "team." Tony Stark did. T'challa was actually the person who wasn't a part of the Illuminati (along with Cap).
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;373424]Actually, he didn't assemble the "team." Tony Stark did. T'challa was actually the person who wasn't a part of the Illuminati (along with Cap).[/QUOTE]
I vaguely recall T'challa making a speech to the panther God asking for forgiveness for putting them together. Didn't he call them all there? Let's say he didn't he still let them stay and participated in their actions. Unless you're talking about the original group which even namor only tolerated to a point
[url]http://i57.tinypic.com/2wciepu.jpg[/url]
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[QUOTE=Sonik;373447]I vaguely recall T'challa making a speech to the panther God asking for forgiveness for putting them together. Didn't he call them all there? Let's say he didn't he still let them stay and participated in their actions. Unless you're talking about the original group which even namor only tolerated to a point
[url]http://i57.tinypic.com/2wciepu.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]
I thought the same, but Tony is the guy who build the dual mechanism of the Avengers World, shadowed by the Illuminati. T'challa simply played host. The actual book doesn't show it though I think. I asked Hickman directly, he said Tony is the guy who did both. We do see him push Cap into the Avengers world. The other side of that was the Illuminati.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;373476]I thought the same, but Tony is the guy who build the dual mechanism of the Avengers World, shadowed by the Illuminati. T'challa simply played host. The actual book doesn't show it though I think. I asked Hickman directly, he said Tony is the guy who did both. We do see him push Cap into the Avengers world. The other side of that was the Illuminati.[/QUOTE]
That seems like a pretty important thing to omit, but maybe it will come up latter. Regardless, thank you for clearing that up
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I enjoy the various POV's displayed here. Everyone says the same thing: we love BP, and want his to succeed.
For better or for worse, we really won't know if BP is being built up for bigger things, or more post-Hudlin endless deconstruction.
I hope we are all still here next summer, having a hearty LOL over this.
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[QUOTE=Sonik;373447]I vaguely recall T'challa making a speech to the panther God asking for forgiveness for putting them together. Didn't he call them all there? Let's say he didn't he still let them stay and participated in their actions. Unless you're talking about the original group which even namor only tolerated to a point
[url]http://i57.tinypic.com/2wciepu.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]
T'Challa didn't form that team. He begrudgingly called them in to help with the incursions, they were a fully formed team well before that moment.
T'Challa's stance on the Illuminati hasn't changed one bit. It was just a matter of him knowing of a situation that required him to deal with them. Even during their first meeting together T'Challa said he knew he'd regret working with them.
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[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;373493]I enjoy the various POV's displayed here. Everyone says the same thing: we love BP, and want his to succeed.
For better or for worse, we really won't know if BP is being built up for bigger things, or more post-Hudlin endless deconstruction.
I hope we are all still here next summer, having a hearty LOL over this.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much. We'll know for sure once everything is over. I really don't think this is more deconstruction of T'Challa. Looking at it, it's more of a re-confirmation of who T'Challa is and what he's about. He's his own man and does things his own way. It may be at odds with his own country and even his ancestors at times but he's been like that before. He's the one that brought Wakanda out of isolationism, dated and married an outsider and joined with foreign super teams.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;373506]Pretty much. We'll know for sure once everything is over. I really don't think this is more deconstruction of T'Challa. Looking at it, it's more of a re-confirmation of who T'Challa is and what he's about. He's his own man and does things his own way. It may be at odds with his own country and even his ancestors at times but he's been like that before. He's the one that brought Wakanda out of isolationism, dated and married an outsider and joined with foreign super teams.[/QUOTE]
Well said. He has his own code and way of thinking and so on. It's less deconstructing of T'challa and more of deconstructing constructs like the Illuminati. Shaw has a point, we will know next year this time. Hell, we will get some insight during issue 24 which is 8 months in the future.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;373506]Pretty much. We'll know for sure once everything is over. I really don't think this is more deconstruction of T'Challa. Looking at it, it's more of a re-confirmation of who T'Challa is and what he's about. He's his own man and does things his own way. It may be at odds with his own country and even his ancestors at times but he's been like that before. He's the one that brought Wakanda out of isolationism, dated and married an outsider and joined with foreign super teams.[/QUOTE]
The funny part is T'Chaka married a foreign woman, and (depending on the continuity) had dealings with foreigners that resulted in his death.
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[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;373545]Well said. He has his own code and way of thinking and so on. It's less deconstructing of T'challa and more of deconstructing constructs like the Illuminati. Shaw has a point, we will know next year this time. Hell, we will get some insight during issue 24 which is 8 months in the future.[/QUOTE]
It was T'Chaka (depending on the continuity) that endorsed T'Challa to spend so much time overseas. He wanted T'Challa to develop a frame of thought that was different. He wanted T'Challa to do things differently for the people of Wakanda.
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[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;373569]It was T'Chaka (depending on the continuity) that endorsed T'Challa to spend so much time overseas. He wanted T'Challa to develop a frame of thought that was different. He wanted T'Challa to do things differently for the people of Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
Yeah he did. I think that T'Chaka knew that Wakanda couldn't remain isolated from the rest of the world forever.
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Is it at all possible that BP's folks are really pulling a......mind screw on our hero....to test his resolve?
Perhaps they want BP to stand on his own, and not be chained by traditions.
T'Chaka raised T'Challa to be that way. T'Chaka just can't expect his son to just do what the past Panthers did. Shuri was raised old school, T'Challa was not.
Bast must have known such conflict would have occurred.
From the Priest run, I have longed for T'Challa to step out of his father's shadow. T'Challa was a boy when his father was butchered before his eyes. I can understand why BP would tear up at his father disowning him as BP has spent most of his life thinking "what would father do?"
Despite father never enduring the things BP has, T'Challa has always felt inferior to his father.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;373209]The man rejects the urging of his father and the lineage of the Black Panther, because deep in his heart he believes thatwhat he is doing the wrong thing is a "bitchout". A man goes down a dark road and realizes that he has limits to what is willing to sacrifice for his people. He values the taking of life, and thats a Punk move.
Everyone of them had found their limit except Namor. And Namor found was his shattered ego when he lost to Atlantis to Wakanda,being bitch out by Proxima and Thanos to betray Earth, and in a group of brains being the thug muscl in a group of brains. Namor is broken, and has gone further don the oad of darkness than ever before. Namor is a servant of his ego, and will do anything to appease it, TChalla is a man was willing to risk everything especially ego to save the day, but found that he could not rconsile himself with being the trigger man to billions on this planet and billions on further planets that he would have inevitable had to destroy. I guess we all have definition of manhood.[/QUOTE]
If Namor hadn't pushed the trigger then T'Challa and the rest of the Illuminati's reticence to do so would have led to the entire 616 reality being annihilated.
I don't see what ego has to do with anything in this equation so let's not get too carried away with the "Namor as thug muscle amongst so-called geniuses" rhetoric.
Namor is nobody's fool and did what no one else had the guts to do because he's already looked into the abyss and been consumed by what he saw there.
Of all the Illuminati, he's now amongst one of the most tragic members made all the more so for the fact that he's now going to be turned into a scapegoat to transition him into the new Cabal while the rest of the hypocrits in the Illuminati do whatever it is they do moving forward.
In all of this, T'Challa still remains the character I really have no enthusiasm for whatsoever because it's obvious that he still hasn't found himself after having wasted hi time in Hell's Kitchen.
Stick a fork in him and done.
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;373588]Yeah he did. I think that T'Chaka knew that Wakanda couldn't remain isolated from the rest of the world forever.[/QUOTE]
Right....so more has to be going on with this weird family dynamic than meets the eye.
Or at least, I hope so.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;373293]Then why come to an appreciation page?
If this pans out like some of us are expecting/hoping, you will be right back in here jumping for joy liek the rest of us lol[/QUOTE]
This is a Black Panther Appreciation Thread yes?
How many Black Panthers are there at present?
I believe there are two, and I'd like to believe that most people posting in this thread familiar with my stance know which Black Panther I have respect for right now.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;372197]T'Chaka was married to T'Challa' mother before his death and that didn't stop him from doing his duty.[/QUOTE]
I think its safe to say that T'Challa's mother, like most Wakandan's, was raised to revere the Black Panther as an absolute authority and not to question him.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;373592]If Namor hadn't pushed the trigger then T'Challa and the rest of the Illuminati's reticence to do so would have led to the entire 616 reality being annihilated.
I don't see what ego has to do with anything in this equation so let's not get too carried away with the "Namor as thug muscle amongst so-called geniuses" rhetoric.
Namor is nobody's fool and did what no one else had the guts to do because he's already looked into the abyss and been consumed by what he saw there.
Of all the Illuminati, he's now amongst one of the most tragic members made all the more so for the fact that he's now going to be turned into a scapegoat to transition him into the new Cabal while the rest of the hypocrits in the Illuminati do whatever it is they do moving forward.
In all of this, T'Challa still remains the character I really have no enthusiasm for whatsoever because it's obvious that he still hasn't found himself after having wasted hi time in Hell's Kitchen.
Stick a fork in him and done.[/QUOTE]
What's up BCB.
I think the only characters to walk away from this relatively unscathed are Reed and Hank. T'Challa, Black Bolt and Namor all lost kingdoms. Tony will most likely be out of the Avengers and probably not welcome among them for a while. Strange could have lost his soul. Namor made the choice that the others weren't willing to make. That makes him any braver than the rest or them any more cowardly. Namor did what he did because his soul was pretty much lost already with everything that he had already done. What was one more stain on his soul? I don't think it was anything for him or any other member of the Illuminati to be proud of. This was the same Namor that refused to exile the Hulk into space but was willing to destroy billions. That shows you how far he had fallen.
The others will still have to live with his actions however and more likely they will hold themselves accountable.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;372265]Bro, does anything you've said here justify Hickman having T'Challa offer to pull the trigger, engage in speechified hand wringing before bitching out and crying like a baby starved of breast milk?
[/QUOTE]
Why does the fact that an intelligent man shed tears at the idea of killing billions have any relevance?
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[QUOTE=Marvell2100;373620]What's up BCB.
I think the only characters to walk away from this relatively unscathed are Reed and Hank. T'Challa, Black Bolt and Namor all lost kingdoms. Tony will most likely be out of the Avengers and probably not welcome among them for a while. Strange could have lost his soul. Namor made the choice that the others weren't willing to make. That makes him any braver than the rest or them any more cowardly. Namor did what he did because his soul was pretty much lost already with everything that he had already done. What was one more stain on his soul? I don't think it was anything for him or any other member of the Illuminati to be proud of. This was the same Namor that refused to exile the Hulk into space but was willing to destroy billions. That shows you how far he had fallen.
The others will still have to live with his actions however and more likely they will hold themselves accountable.[/QUOTE]
Reed is about to lose his intellect. No one is walking away unscathed. I'm sure Beast is going to get his in the X-men or Axis.
[img]http://38.media.tumblr.com/18f57efc38febceb1054851f8eecb6ef/tumblr_n8g9mocx0t1sk2q1ao1_500.jpg[/img]
It's sad that this punch didn't knock sense into Namor. Joining a group of intergalactic space mass murderers can't be spinned as heroic or smart. Andromeda told him during Infinity and he's continuing to fall and go down a path that will not end well for him.
I think the whole way the Incursions is being viewed is probably wrong and we have missed some detail that will only be clear later on.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;373601]This is a Black Panther Appreciation Thread yes?
How many Black Panthers are there at present?
I believe there are two, and I'd like to believe that most people posting in this thread familiar with my stance know which Black Panther I have respect for right now.
[url]http://i59.tinypic.com/169lwnd.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]
Not that you need me to say this......because you certainly don't........but don't ever slow your role here.
As always, you make valid points time & again. I enjoy reading your contributions here.
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It's actually kind of depressing to see the comments on how T'Challa is somehow a lesser man than he was because he shed tears over the idea of murdering innocent children.
I saw Admiral Adama break down and cry on Battlestar and he is still one of the most awesome characters in the history of sci-fi.