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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3606612][B]I'm not surprised at all. Issue 13? Sure I thought maybe he would be less crappy to Tchalla because he got to tell his big deconstructed story, but it quickly went back to the same song and dance but now worse because colonizers is a thing in Wakanda, and now Wakandans pray to Storm instead of, oh i dunno, the Black panther.
I'm more surprised that Evans isn't Even getting top billing in his own story that he is crushing it in. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not suprised at all.
I knew this was going to happen before the very first issue dropped because I actually paid attention to Coates stated opinions in multiple interviews.
Coates made it abundantly clear from day one, that he he neither appreciater or "understood" T'Challa as a character, Wakandan society and culture, as a concept or the BP Mythos in their entirety.
Rather than following through from where Hickman's Secret War II left off, he chose to introduce rape camps and misogyny into Wakanda on some Boko Haram type crap.
T'Challa became a spare wheel in his own book behind every supporting character pre-existing or Coates created as he gradually worked towards writing the character he actually wanted to write.
Storm.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3606656]As proof of this story, Adversary gets off on attacking the men that propose to Storm. He's her villain. This story shows us as much.[/QUOTE]
Then it's a story that should be written in an actual X-book.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3606452]Just a PSA.
Sometimes we talk about Cyborg here. Just wanted to let people know he punched the hell out of Batman in JL. lol[/QUOTE]
Priest actually sets or potentially sets Cyborg on an interesting trajectory for once at the end of his run, but no one should get their hopes up, because its face it DC's had this happen 4 or 5 times in the last 7 years ultimately leading to nothing significant.
my post on it:
[QUOTE=Jabare;3605117]Wow todays Justice League was actually okay, not a super exciting issue, but probably the most characterization we've seen with Victor outside of his solo books for years.
[spoil]
Almost gave you the feeling he was quitting the League the way it ended.
Regardless, punching Batman is one of the best feats I've seen from Vic in a long time (outside of his solo title). Priest essentially used Batman to voice fan complaints about Victor for the past 7 years there too.
Still didn't explain why he can't use boom tubes anymore or why he got nerfed during the run but best you can hope for given DC's track record.
Sadly DC isn't going to follow up on this. I mean this would be a great plot point to [B]finally[/B] build Cyborg up. If he's part of the Justice League core you can't keep only giving him moments in his solo book and than quickly rebooting or forgetting about them. Johns gave him three or four moments but they were often overshadowed by these periods of being backgrounded and/or inaction/no dialogue. Bryan Hitch actually did a relatively okay job at times in retrospect
[/spoil][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jabare;3605779]I think it was a little better than what has been the norm for Victor. Not nearly the best we've seen, but far from the worst. He certainly gave Vic more spotlight and made him feel more like a full fledge member. Priest actually gave him more of a consistent voice and characterization than he generally has in Justice League books.
On more positive is that Priest actually graced Cyborg with a new story that wasn't '[I]man vs machine[/I]' or '[I]dad issues[/I].' Priest set up some interesting challenges for Cyborg to overcome. However, even though Cyborg ultimately made it past these challenges he never really gets a win. He endures a lot of nagging and criticism but is thrust into virtually unwinnable situations. He 'saves the day' in two scenarios as the "leader," but he doesn't get the win overall. Plus the way the story ended gives you the impression he quits the Justice League.
I felt like Vic's last page with Batman was Priest speaking directly to DC on behalf of the fans.
Again I don't expect anything to come from this. Vic's had several redesigns and new directions that get people all excited and they never stick.
Walker's Cyborg upgrade and redesign got rolled back. Jim Lee's initial design got changed despite DC dragging its feet and his base design still varies from artist to artist if we are being honest.
Technically he should be "Cyborg One Million" right now stronger and better than ever..... but nope.
Over the years I've learned to have very low expectations regarding DC's handling of Cyborg.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3606670]Then it's a story that should be written in an actual X-book.[/QUOTE]
I agree. But I'd doesn't hurt to stretch his legs and let a few Wakandans test themselves against him. I really enjoyed Zawavari thinking he had his number. I'm dying to see where he stacks up against the likes of Strange and Voodoo.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3606656]As proof of this story, Adversary gets off on attacking the men that propose to Storm. He's her villain. This story shows us as much.[/QUOTE]
Roll the tape!
First appearance: Replaces Forge's teaches, Naze. Is defeated by Forge performing a ritual with nine other lives as a sacrifice.
Second appearance: Was incarnated as the son of a mutant named Haven. Is banished by Forge.
Third appearance: Crowd scene with a bunch of other satanic beings in Fear Itself.
Fourth Appearance: Tries to possess Forge, who was at the time a member of X-Force. Ends up trapped in a mind palace (from which he's somehow summoned, but that's continuity for you.)
Yeah, he's CLEARLY a Storm villain. :cool:
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3606662]I'm not suprised at all.
I knew this was going to happen before the very first issue dropped because I actually paid attention to Coates stated opinions in multiple interviews.
Coates made it abundantly clear from day one, that he he neither appreciater or "understood" T'Challa as a character, Wakandan society and culture, as a concept or the BP Mythos in their entirety.
Rather than following through from where Hickman's Secret War II left off, he chose to introduce rape camps and misogyny into Wakanda on some Boko Haram type crap.
T'Challa became a spare wheel in his own book behind every supporting character pre-existing or Coates created as he gradually worked towards writing the character he actually wanted to write.
Storm.[/QUOTE]
[B] That! No on not surprised, just pissed. But for Evans? That is surprising, I haven't ever seen a writer not get due credit for his work in interviews and articles and then have his not not be listed first on His own book, and that going to a consultant at best. That's what I'm surprised about bot Coates continued ways[/B]
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3606699]Roll the tape!
First appearance: Replaces Forge's teaches, Naze. Is defeated by Forge performing a ritual with nine other lives as a sacrifice.
Second appearance: Was incarnated as the son of a mutant named Haven. Is banished by Forge.
Third appearance: Crowd scene with a bunch of other satanic beings in Fear Itself.
Fourth Appearance: Tries to possess Forge, who was at the time a member of X-Force. Ends up trapped in a mind palace (from which he's somehow summoned, but that's continuity for you.)
Yeah, he's CLEARLY a Storm villain. :cool:[/QUOTE]
[B]Good to see you posting again BoG and as usual, your Comic knowledge is on point![/B]
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3606698]I agree. But I'd doesn't hurt to stretch his legs and let a few Wakandans test themselves against him. I really enjoyed Zawavari thinking he had his number. I'm dying to see where he stacks up against the likes of Strange and Voodoo.[/QUOTE]
I repeat.
It's a story that should be written in an actual X-book and not one that purports to be the Black Panther solo title but continually remains to be one in name only.
Some continue to insist that Storm is an integral part of the BP Mythos but here's the thing...
Is T'Challa (and by extension Wakanda) part of the X-Men's mythos too?
A few examples of this being the case would be much appreciated.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3606525]The ending with storm was weird when i read it a few times.
I thought it was a major feat... but i glossed over the fact the sorcerers lead by Big Z did half the work... then storm hit him with a lightning bolt lol.
[/QUOTE]
I could tell the sorcerers were doing something, but I wasn't entirely clear on what. As I said, this is a story about T'Challa using his strategizing ability to lead other people into winning the day. To a significant degree, it's what he did in the finale of the first one, but I'd argue that story was more personal (it was about letting go of personal demons and not being tied to the past while still not forgetting it). I suppose there's some argument that this was supposed to be about the relationship between Ororo and T'Challa, but I don't really think that was set enough.
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3606699]Roll the tape!
First appearance: Replaces Forge's teaches, Naze. Is defeated by Forge performing a ritual with nine other lives as a sacrifice.
Second appearance: Was incarnated as the son of a mutant named Haven. Is banished by Forge.
Third appearance: Crowd scene with a bunch of other satanic beings in Fear Itself.
Fourth Appearance: Tries to possess Forge, who was at the time a member of X-Force. Ends up trapped in a mind palace (from which he's somehow summoned, but that's continuity for you.)
Yeah, he's CLEARLY a Storm villain. :cool:[/QUOTE]
I think that drastically undercuts the role Storm has in Fall of the Mutants when she is trapped with Forge on that other Earth. It's entirely reasonable for someone to start as a villain for one character and grow into a villain for other characters. Obviously, the Kingpin for Daredevil is an example of that.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3606462]I assume you mean [i]hasn't[/i] been seen in a decade? The answer is still clearly yes either way, though. I'm never a fan of just junking something because people haven't had ideas in the past. I'm also not sure "let's copy that idea from the movie" comes off as creating a new idea anyway.
People have been reading too much out of solicits for the past two years, so why not do that with a single panel?
My thoughts on this issue:
This issue had a very frenetic pace and I'm not sure it concluded clearly. I'm a little unclear on what exactly happened to power Storm. That being said, we're seeing a very clear theme. The story isn't focusing on T'Challa the warrior, it's about T'Challa the leader. He's at his most effective when he's using his resources to win the day, even if he's manipulating those resources. For those who want show not tell, it could certainly be frustrating because we're told these people are doing these things because T'Challa is organizing them, but we're not seeing T'Challa physically do much. The whole point was that he's one step ahead of everyone and able to win the day.
Leonard Kirk's art feels a bit rushed. I definitely didn't like the panels where he didn't bother to draw faces. That being said, I thought the panels returning to a catatonic Storm were effective.
Overall, this resolution was definitely a step down from the first arc. I think the action has definitely improved, but a lot of the promised world building doesn't seem to pay off. I'm curious if he returns to the Orishas in the future because there's definitely more to explore.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think the art felt a little lazy and rushed in parts. That was sort of disappointned. It conveyed action and emotion well enough, but he seemingly took a lot of short cuts.
And I liked that this issue conveyed that T'Challa was 2 steps ahead of everything and everyone. He clearly knew exactly what he was dealing with and how to deal with it the entire time... we just didn't know that until the very end. Which is a good thing because if he knew T'Challa had everything mapped out all along, it would kill the threat level of everything.
As far as the vagueness of the ending... there is almost a bit of a Saturday morning cartoon vibe about the power of faith being enough to super saiyan her up. But the story does sort of build on that notion, so it's not like it's out of nowhere or anything like that. It works well enough.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3606529]If a group of 3rd rate no name sorcerers can hurt him, i think voodoo or strange would do alright lol.[/QUOTE]
No doubt Strange would find a way to win. Defeating vastly powerful demonic beings is sort of what he does for a living.
That said, this was sort of a plot device win. It wasn't just Storm or the 3rd rate sorcerers... I think it was the faith of a nation challenging together to defeat him. Storm and the sorcerers were conduits to make that happen, but I don't think under different circumstances the sorcers or Storm could have defeated him.
Even high end characters under normal circumstances would struggle with the Adversary though. He's a villain you need some sort of plot device to handle.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3606788]I could tell the sorcerers were doing something, but I wasn't entirely clear on what. As I said, this is a story about T'Challa using his strategizing ability to lead other people into winning the day. To a significant degree, it's what he did in the finale of the first one, but I'd argue that story was more personal (it was about letting go of personal demons and not being tied to the past while still not forgetting it). I suppose there's some argument that this was supposed to be about the relationship between Ororo and T'Challa, but I don't really think that was set enough.
I think that drastically undercuts the role Storm has in Fall of the Mutants when she is trapped with Forge on that other Earth. It's entirely reasonable for someone to start as a villain for one character and grow into a villain for other characters. Obviously, the Kingpin for Daredevil is an example of that.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I'm hoping Adversay transplants into a Wakandan villain. I think T'Challa having a few very high threats is nice. And given Adversary only really showed up for one story (albeit a rather big event level one), I don't think the X books would miss him too much. With Storm being involved in Wakanda, it's a pretty easy transition anyways.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3606698]I agree. But I'd doesn't hurt to stretch his legs and let a few Wakandans test themselves against him. I really enjoyed Zawavari thinking he had his number. I'm dying to see where he stacks up against the likes of Strange and Voodoo.[/QUOTE]
Shuri going one on one with her was one of my favorite parts of the story. She didn't have the raw power to stop him or even really hurt him, but her abilities made her a very difficult opponent to fight.
And yes, Zawavari getting some panel time against a relatively high level threat is a nice feat as well. Now Wakanda has an actual mage with a name. THat's kind of cool. Hopefully he's used more down the line.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3606699]Roll the tape!
First appearance: Replaces Forge's teaches, Naze. Is defeated by Forge performing a ritual with nine other lives as a sacrifice.
Second appearance: Was incarnated as the son of a mutant named Haven. Is banished by Forge.
Third appearance: Crowd scene with a bunch of other satanic beings in Fear Itself.
Fourth Appearance: Tries to possess Forge, who was at the time a member of X-Force. Ends up trapped in a mind palace (from which he's somehow summoned, but that's continuity for you.)
Yeah, he's CLEARLY a Storm villain. :cool:[/QUOTE]
Yeah, not sure how that disproves my original statement. In his original story, it was implied that he feared Storm and Forge. With the release of BP #172, we now know why he feared Storm and he's shown a clear pattern of attacking the men interested enough to want to marry her. That's what we do know. One coincidence is something. Two coincidences is pattern. Storm villain proven.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3606744]I repeat.
It's a story that should be written in an actual X-book and not one that purports to be the Black Panther solo title but continually remains to be one in name only.
Some continue to insist that Storm is an integral part of the BP Mythos but here's the thing...
Is T'Challa (and by extension Wakanda) part of the X-Men's mythos too?
A few examples of this being the case would be much appreciated.[/QUOTE]
Well his two obvious ties are Nehzno and his former Queen Storm. Before Gentle was even thought of, he had a profound effect on Storm. In X-men First Class it was shown that T'Challa that filled Storm with purpose and a sense of duty to be a hero. If it wasn't for, it's likely the X-men would have been without their greatest leader and champion. T'Challa also funneled billions into mutant causes. And now he's working as allies with Jean Grey and her team of X-men. I'd say BP is saturated in pro mutant sentiment. It's not his fault that the X-office doesn't like to paint him as the savior that he truly is.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3606699]Roll the tape!
First appearance: Replaces Forge's teaches, Naze. Is defeated by Forge performing a ritual with nine other lives as a sacrifice.
Second appearance: Was incarnated as the son of a mutant named Haven. Is banished by Forge.
Third appearance: Crowd scene with a bunch of other satanic beings in Fear Itself.
Fourth Appearance: Tries to possess Forge, who was at the time a member of X-Force. Ends up trapped in a mind palace (from which he's somehow summoned, but that's continuity for you.)
Yeah, he's CLEARLY a Storm villain. :cool:[/QUOTE]
When knowledge of continuity and fact are as fine tuned and precise as those you present, all is well with the universe.