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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;1093847] The Black Panther can't just float around the Marvel universe borrowing other characters rogues galleries and hope to move units or merchandise!
[/QUOTE]
You keep saying this like you don't know that tommorow everybody gonna watch Netflix just to see Daredevil go up against a
borrowed member of Spider Man's Rogues Gallery(The Kingpin).
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[QUOTE=robreedwrites;1094129]Not really disagreeing with the premise, but I've got several folks asking me about Black Panther because of the Ernie Hudson rumor. A mix of Ghostbusters and Oz fans.[/QUOTE]
My dad was like that, he was vaguely aware of the character and new I liked him, but never had much to say about it until he saw "Winston" was going to be in it.
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Vic Vega I assure you that as sure as I have not watched one single episode of Agents of Shield I will not watch Daredevil on Netflix... I am not much of a tv man but maybe I might catch it in syndicated reruns like I did Lois and Clark on the nightshift at a job I had years ago!
And technically Kingpin is now more of a Daredevil villain than a Spiderman villain so it is what I consider a successful jacking of another character's rogues gallery!
Black Panther could take Doom, Kang or Mephisto as his own but that would require follow ups on a consistent basis until they stuck permanently within his franchise as regulars!
MindofShadow raises a good point in that you could pull a Marlon Brando from Superman and cast Denzel even for a substantial fee that should not cut too much into Chadwick Boseman's profit!
The question is will Black Panther be a blockbuster movie or go straight to BET only to be seen at like 4:00 AM on a Sunday morning when folks are still hung over just getting home from the Saturday night party!
If Black Panther makes Ironman money then the Denzel fees are well worth it but if it flops nobody wins!
You have to show a vote of confidence in this character and go all in and at least try to make it work on a bigger level not get cold feet and try to be safe!
[url]http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/denzel-washington-is-one-of-hollywoods-most-overpaid-stars-according-to-forbes-20141224[/url]
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What T'Challa needs are good showings outside his own books. If what everyone see is T'Challa getting his ass kicked every time he crossovers outside of his own book that's what people will remember.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1094118]I find casting Ernie as a waste of a chance to pay a "well known actor" in a small role just for "casual" reasons. it woudln't be that expensive and you can put their name on the poster.
Anthony Hopkins, Portman
Tommy Lee Jones, Weaving
Bridges, Paltrow, Howard
Rudd, Douglas
Pratt, Zoe, Cooper, Vin, Batista
the more names you can put on a poster, the better to draw in every single casual. Every little bit helps with new potential franchises. "Ernie Hudson" isn't a recognizable name at all.[/QUOTE]
That's a really good point.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;1093920]perfect post. That's exactly what I was talking about.
The idea of T'chaka in T'challa's mind is something that defines T'challa and something he strugles with. Everyone know he accomplished more.[/QUOTE]
I am not really disagreeing with that. Just saying that it would still be true if Tchaka was alive.The nostalgia part wouldn't be as big but the need for approval would be. Just like Odin. I think I would fond Tchaka a fascinating character to explore.
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;1094282]Vic Vega I assure you that as sure as I have not watched one single episode of Agents of Shield I will not watch Daredevil on Netflix... I am not much of a tv man but maybe I might catch it in syndicated reruns like I did Lois and Clark on the nightshift at a job I had years ago!
And technically Kingpin is now more of a Daredevil villain than a Spiderman villain so it is what I consider a successful jacking of another character's rogues gallery!
Black Panther could take Doom, Kang or Mephisto as his own but that would require follow ups on a consistent basis until they stuck permanently within his franchise as regulars!
MindofShadow raises a good point in that you could pull a Marlon Brando from Superman and cast Denzel even for a substantial fee that should not cut too much into Chadwick Boseman's profit!
The question is will Black Panther be a blockbuster movie or go straight to BET only to be seen at like 4:00 AM on a Sunday morning when folks are still hung over just getting home from the Saturday night party!
If Black Panther makes Ironman money then the Denzel fees are well worth it but if it flops nobody wins!
You have to show a vote of confidence in this character and go all in and at least try to make it work on a bigger level not get cold feet and try to be safe!
[url]http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/denzel-washington-is-one-of-hollywoods-most-overpaid-stars-according-to-forbes-20141224[/url][/QUOTE]
yup.......
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1094118]I find casting Ernie as a waste of a chance to pay a "well known actor" in a small role just for "casual" reasons. it woudln't be that expensive and you can put their name on the poster.
Anthony Hopkins, Portman
Tommy Lee Jones, Weaving
Bridges, Paltrow, Howard
Rudd, Douglas
Pratt, Zoe, Cooper, Vin, Batista
the more names you can put on a poster, the better to draw in every single casual. Every little bit helps with new potential franchises. "Ernie Hudson" isn't a recognizable name at all.[/QUOTE]
you still have other side characters such as Zuri, Omoro, W'Kabi, S'Yan, Shuri and Ramonda who could make up for well known actors.
personally, I would want Morgan Freeman as S'yan
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S'yan has had just as many comic appearances as T'Chaka and depending on the direction of the movie, could very well have more speaking roles than T'Chaka (who should be dead in the first 15-30mins or already dead when the film begins,IMO.) If the movie follows Hudlin's BP series, then casting a big name for T'Chaka wouldn't be a complete waste, as it could possibly fill seats, but S'yan's actor would need to be a bigger name -- or at least someone with the gravitas to play a current King (and eventually a Lead Adviser) until Prince T'Challa actually becomes King...[I]if [/I]they take those bits from Hudlin's Panther.
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There is nothing wrong with a major star getting killed early in a film I mean look at what happened to Nick Fury here...
[url]https://youtu.be/yMwmqp3GLMc[/url]
Carry on...
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[QUOTE=Maverick;1094838]S'yan has had just as many comic appearances as T'Chaka and depending on the direction of the movie, could very well have more speaking roles than T'Chaka (who should be dead in the first 15-30mins or already dead when the film begins,IMO.) If the movie follows Hudlin's BP series, then casting a big name for T'Chaka wouldn't be a complete waste, as it could possibly fill seats, but S'yan's actor would need to be a bigger name -- or at least someone with the gravitas to play a current King (and eventually a Lead Adviser) until Prince T'Challa actually becomes King...[I]if [/I]they take those bits from Hudlin's Panther.[/QUOTE]
Denzel as T'chaka
Snipes as Syan
get it done Marvel.
freakin Ernie hudson.....
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Denzel will never be in it. Let these fantasies go and face reality
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If they could talk Anthony Hopkins into wearing that costume than they can get Denzel.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;1095351]If they could talk Anthony Hopkins into wearing that costume than they can get Denzel.[/QUOTE]
Anthony Hopkins is not on Denzel's pay-level. At all. Neither is Tommy Lee Jones from Cap 1. The only person that's in Denzel's bracket is RDJ. That's not saying Marvel couldn't work something out, but it would pretty much be unprecedented for Marvel. Their whole thing is getting talented actors with some recognition on the cheap.
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;1093763]Disagree guys. It's not about T'Challa surpassing T'Chaka's accomplishments, but rather T'Challa stepping out of his father's shadow. Yes, those are two very different things.
T'Challa was a boy when his father died, for all the interpretations. And since then, he has always tried to live up to the idea he has of his father, one half nostalgic, one half childhood admiration. What T'Challa strives to be as a king and as a Black Panther is drawn from what he thinks his father was, of how his father acted. One of the reasons KotD had potential was for a T'Chaka/T'Challa meeting, something to give T'Challa proper closure regarding his father, to step outside his shadows, to step outside his devotion and dedication to Wakanda, to his father's Wakanda, and be more than the Black Panther, more than the King. To be at peace, with his father, and himself.
Or at least, that's my view.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that from a readers perspective, he essentially stepped out of that shadow before we even met him. T'Challa is essentially the ONLY king of Wakanda we ever really knew. T'Chaka essentially existed just to be killed by Klaw so that his son can have an arch nemesis when he grows up. We never met him except in brief flashbacks, and we've never really seen T'Challa struggle at all to live up to his father or anyone else's accomplishments for that matter.
I think we got more of that in Shuri attempting to live up to T'Challa when she became Black Panther as it's T'Challa who is the actual measuring stick readers use in guaging the Black Panther. Not his dad and not his sister, but T'Challa himself.
Even the meeting between T'Challa and the previous Panthers in a lot of ways frankly seemed designed to show that the rest of them were bigger jerks than T'Challa is (even though they had a perfectly valid stance). I don't think too many readers looked at T'Challa's dad and felt T'Challa really had to live up to him.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1095480]The problem is that from a readers perspective, he essentially stepped out of that shadow before we even met him. T'Challa is essentially the ONLY king of Wakanda we ever really knew. T'Chaka essentially existed just to be killed by Klaw so that his son can have an arch nemesis when he grows up. We never met him except in brief flashbacks, and we've never really seen T'Challa struggle at all to live up to his father or anyone else's accomplishments for that matter.
I think we got more of that in Shuri attempting to live up to T'Challa when she became Black Panther as it's T'Challa who is the actual measuring stick readers use in guaging the Black Panther. Not his dad and not his sister, but T'Challa himself.
Even the meeting between T'Challa and the previous Panthers in a lot of ways frankly seemed designed to show that the rest of them were bigger jerks than T'Challa is (even though they had a perfectly valid stance). I don't think too many readers looked at T'Challa's dad and felt T'Challa really had to live up to him.[/QUOTE]
The readers don't think that, sure. S'Yan probably doesn't think that. Shuri probably doesn't think that. But it's T'Challa that thinks that. From a reader's perspective, it's ludicrous of course. But from T'Challa's perspective, from a son's perspective...
When do dad's stop being their kid's hero? Especially when your dad is a literal warrior-hero-king who died before your very eyes? I'm not saying this has ever been explicitly done by the writers, but I've always felt that was part of T'Challa's dedication and focus to Wakanda, that focus to protect his father's dream, to live up to who he thought his father was and what his father would expect, even to the cost of his relationships to people like Monica and Storm (ignoring the bad writing for most of Storm's latter appearances), and why even his friendships outside Wakanda have an underlying meaning to them (Captain America, the most moral man in the world. Luke Cage, a brother doing his own thing, blunt and honest, not a schemer or deciever. Reed Richards, a man so intelligent and important, but so dedicated to experiments and science that T'Challa can only see him as an equal, not a future threat to Wakanda).
Edit:
And hey, Flex! You keep talking about the basics of Black Panther, but I don't see any criticism for that shit I wrote a few pages back. Give a fellow fan some love and tell me what I'm doing wrong or right!
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T'chaka will be dead when the movie starts unless they are changing a chunk of the mythos. T'challa is showing up in CW (or AoU post scene! Please!) as... BP. So unless Wakanda has a king who can be separate from their protector... T'chaka be dead yo by the time the solo gets here
power of well timed FLASH BACKS !
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1095958]T'chaka will be dead when the movie starts unless they are changing a chunk of the mythos. T'challa is showing up in CW (or AoU post scene! Please!) as... BP. So unless Wakanda has a king who can be separate from their protector... T'chaka be dead yo by the time the solo gets here
power of well timed FLASH BACKS ![/QUOTE]
Based on the reaction of people after seeing age of ultra, I don't think there is a mid credit scene of wakanda or black panther
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MrHashasheen,
You have some pretty good ideas there so I have few complaints with what you wrote!
However, if I were to treat you as I would Priest, Hudlin, Maberry or Hickman and was upfront as a fan about what I like and what I don't like I would just say this...
In business 101 the concept is ABC... Always Be Closing!
You can have as many ensemble characters as you want but all essential characters need to be closing new costumers otherwise it's back to declining sales and cancellations once again!
As the Marvel universe slides back and forth on that ever evolving sliding timescale that gets constantly interrupted with "events" you have to make halftime adjustments according to when and where Black Panther gets pulled into another story arc outside of his own comic and be ready to receive him right back into his own comic without hiccups!
No matter how many characters you add into the BP mythos all of them have a responsibility to the ABC concept of Always Be Closing new customers!
Love interests like Mary Jane, Lois Lane and Catwoman are ABC characters because technically they are closing new customers especially the neglected female audience... Also they serve the purpose of enhancing the main character even if they steal scenes because the leading lady love interests are never a real threat to him or his title! (Hint)
URST (UnResolved Sexual Tension) is everything in male dominated comics no matter how politically correct you want to be about it and if the leading male is not flirting with the possibility of sealing that deal then deuces... Batman does not technically have to sleep with Catwoman but that option better be on the table even as a tease for issue #10 or issue #1001!
Rogues galleries are meant to serve the meta plot and if they struggle to catch hold themselves as solo characters within the franchise then they can be like that lazy uncle that lives in your basement and never holds a job and contributes nothing towards the mortgage or the utility bills! Lol
All characters should be required and mandated toward the ABC concept just as Doom, Magneto and The Joker have been over the years... They should be so important that leading actors in Hollywood know who they are and want to portray them at all costs in movies!
Black Panther has a rich and glorious history but if it as a total concept is not about them ABC's it will constantly be a cancelled and tossed to the side mythos because it has way too many moving parts... Many of those parts can get cannibalized by other characters like Stark's quinjet or jacked like Batman's contingency planning for the Justice League if you don't get those ABC's trademarked quickly to the character exclusively!
I have always felt that a Manhattan Project style creative team was best for the Black Panther because a solo writer by himself can get fatigued underneath all of that info and that there should be a whole separate office for Black Panther to tackle all the convoluted concepts and straighten them out so that they make sense without thousands of pages of backstories!
World building is great but it's like putting the cart before the horse... At some point revenue has to be made going forward otherwise the character and all it's cast members get setback in useless limbo as the next writer must regroup just like the ones before him and do yet another reboot!
There is not a long line of writers wanting to write Black Panther because most comic book writers are plug and play not novelists trying to cram so much convolution into a 23 page comic!
The best thing for the Black Panther right this very minute would be to take Andy Serkis' likeness and get going on a Bowen statue and toys and build him up before even touching one single other rogue so that persons who want to cosplay can be ready to go for the very next Comic-con!
If Comic-con is not flourishing with Andy Serkis/Klaw lookalikes then that would be a fail for this franchise... I can't envision too many cosplayers dressed up as Desturi or even Syan for that matter because other than the few diehard fans like us the general public won't care one way or another about uncles unless he is like Uncle Scar in the Lion King!
Also... You have to tread lightly with African based characters like Man-Ape or buck naked tribal warriors because a couple of drunk white boys at Comic-con could cause a racial incident cosplaying at Comic-con just saying!
Black Panther... Significant Other/Love Interest... Rogues Gallery... Wakanda... Period!
ABC's...
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;1095317]Let these fantasies go and face reality[/QUOTE]
What an awesome signature this would make.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;1096075]Based on the reaction of people after seeing age of ultra, I don't think there is a mid credit scene of wakanda or black panther[/QUOTE]
ive seen 2 people mention it but cannot tell if they are real or fakers
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1096328]ive seen 2 people mention it but cannot tell if they are real or fakers[/QUOTE]
Well, there might be some hope left but I won't have high expectations for it
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[QUOTE=Ekie;1095186]Denzel as T'chaka
Snipes as Syan
get it done Marvel.
freakin Ernie hudson.....[/QUOTE]
Denzel more or less just got finished with being the Equalizer. He doesn't need to be playing somebody dad and getting murdered by Gollum.
Wesley...is gettable.
But that might be a large ass bitter pill for the brother to swallow given that he was campaigning for the
role of Black Panther since the 90's.
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If the Hudson casting turns out to be untrue, I can still see him as [B]Joe Robertson[/B] in the new [I]Spider-Man[/I] film. Hopefully in a substantive role. Bill Nunn was kind of wasted as Robertson in the Raimi films.
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Avengers aou spoiler on wakanda/Ulysses KLaue
[spoil] Ulysses Klaue
Wakanda is referenced in the movie and Ultron is indeed after Vibranium. That leads him into contact with Ulysses Klaue (Andy Serkis), and arms dealer who has access to at least some of the indestructible substance. He ends up losing a hand here, setting the stage for a big return in Black Panther as the version of the character we all know from the comic books perhaps. Thoughts? [/spoil]
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so tempting to highlight but... just can't do it
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1097203]so tempting to highlight but... just can't do it[/QUOTE]
coming to think of it, It ain't that bad. It's what we have known plus a bit of new information
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I'm camping outside the Disney Store at the mall until the Andy Serkis Klaw toys come in!
Somebody run down to the food court and get me a sandwich or something it's right next to the Foot Locker store just above Victoria's Secret on the second floor! :cool:
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;1097001]Denzel more or less just got finished with being the Equalizer. He doesn't need to be playing somebody dad and getting murdered by Gollum.
Wesley...is gettable.
But that might be a large ass bitter pill for the brother to swallow given that he was campaigning for the
role of Black Panther since the 90's.[/QUOTE]
The other thing is that if you can actually get Denzel to agree to work with marvel, then I honestly think it's almost a waste to give him a role where he's probably going to be killed off in 5 minutes, never to be seen again.
I'd rather Denzel have a role where he can actually be used potentially in future movies. It's freaking Denzel! Maybe Isaiah Bradly or Blue Marvel, or even a black Jonah Jameson. Give Denzel something where it's not just a short one shot deal.
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I like Denzel or Haysbert for Blue Marvel. They really should give BM a movie treatment
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Marvel hasn't shown that they will pay for a known A/B list guy for large roles in multiple movies though.
That is why people keep saying some big name for T'chaka... dude will only be in the movie so much and then be gone forever. Much more affordable while still allowing them to put Denzel's name on the poster.
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This is true. Maybe Hudson gives off the good memories vibe?
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1098370]Marvel hasn't shown that they will pay for a known A/B list guy for large roles in multiple movies though.
That is why people keep saying some big name for T'chaka... dude will only be in the movie so much and then be gone forever. Much more affordable while still allowing them to put Denzel's name on the poster.[/QUOTE]
yup. That's why I say Denzel.
He's not gonna do multiple movies and doesn't need to.
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Denzel is just the smart choice. If you are going to invest millions why not? His name alone will fill seats. He can still be in the movie if they follow the EMH route. Its a no brained.
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In response to Daredevil taking the Kingpin, Fisk wasn't a major Spidey villain at the time and probably not even a top 10 Spidey villain, so stealing him away wasn't a big deal. No FF writer on the other hand will let Doom be stolen away permanently, if BP is going to grab villains he needs to take a lesser known with potential and revitalize him. Moreso than that however, he needs another defining run like Priest had. Thats why Kingpin is such a DD villain IMO because of Miller.
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I can see some of you are still in fantasy land. LMAO.
Just let it go and I promise you, you will be less vulnerable to dissapointments
If Denzel gets it then Hurray but if he doesn't, it won't really change anything so just be happy with what you get for now
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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;1097056]If the Hudson casting turns out to be untrue, I can still see him as [B]Joe Robertson[/B] in the new [I]Spider-Man[/I] film. Hopefully in a substantive role. Bill Nunn was kind of wasted as Robertson in the Raimi films.[/QUOTE]
Hudson as Robertson would be perfect casting.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;1099137]I can see some of you are still in fantasy land. LMAO.
Just let it go and I promise you, you will be less vulnerable to dissapointments
If Denzel gets it then Hurray but if he doesn't, it won't really change anything so just be happy with what you get for now[/QUOTE]
Perhaps folks are thinking of how Marlon Brando (and even Russel Crowe) playing Jor-El.
I'm not sure T'Chaka will get as much screen time.
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[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;1099258]Perhaps folks are thinking of how Marlon Brando (and even Russel Crowe) playing Jor-El.
I'm not sure T'Chaka will get as much screen time.[/QUOTE]
Good point
but if you look at denzel's filmography, most of the time if not all he always plays the leading man in them and for them to cast him as a plot device in a marvel movie will be something ho would not be interested in. However who knows I might be wrong but time will tell
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;1099382]Good point
but [B]if you look at denzel's filmography, most of the time if not all he always plays the leading man in them and for them to cast him as a plot device in a marvel movie will be something ho would not be interested in.[/B] However who knows I might be wrong but time will tell[/QUOTE]
I'd agree if not for the fact that they got Robert Redford to play a one off minor villain in the last Cap film.