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[QUOTE=Cville;3613628]And they weren't even addressed in the final issue. They turned out just to be fodder.[/QUOTE]
This is what pissed me off more than anything. So you mean to tell me that Coates just decided to have Wakanda be on some Christopher Columbus **** and then he just leaves it hanging? Such clever writing.
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@BB
Tchalla has always been different. lol. But that doesn't mean he is obligated. I don't know why they left it out, but Tchaka had relief workers in another country in Civil War. What Tchalla did was just an upgraded continuation.
If Wakanda relocated their population to another planet and left everyone behind, I'll be the first one clapping.
Yes, I'm okay with it.
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[QUOTE=BlackClaw;3613724]This is what pissed me off more than anything. So you mean to tell me that Coates just decided to have Wakanda be on some Christopher Columbus **** and then he just leaves it hanging? Such clever writing.[/QUOTE]
It's like Cornell Wests' evaluation. Brings up isseus, but does not offer solutions. That was Cornell right?
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[QUOTE=Cville;3613732]@BB
Tchalla has always been different. lol. But that doesn't mean he is obligated. I don't know why they left it out, but Tchaka had relief workers in another country in Civil War. What Tchalla did was just an upgraded continuation.
If Wakanda relocated their population to another planet and left everyone behind, I'll be the first one clapping.
Yes, I'm okay with it.[/QUOTE]
You'd essentially be proving Killmonger's point. In the same breath that you have people equating Christopher Columbus with Wakanda, you still have people that argue Wakanda being a vehicle for anti pan-Africanism. I'm just sayin. Black folks with silver spoons and trusts funds often forget their black until the criminal justice system gets a hold of them.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3613664]Coates like Hickman skipped over the details. But considering the war went on for a while, the Wakandans had time to leave. It didn't seem like it was one battle some random afternoon. And considering they could talk to Tchalla just fine, its unbelievable that they didn't say something first.[/QUOTE]
We Don't know the exact details. Sure we can imagine hypothetical situations which potentially make one side or the other look better. But the bottom line is the Originators gave up whatever high ground they may or may not have had. Regardless of whether or not turning the other cheek was even an option for the Wakandans at that point it was no longer any sort of moral obligation.
Again, they originators started a war and they lost. That has consequences.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613768]You'd essentially be proving Killmonger's point. In the same breath that you have people equating Christopher Columbus with Wakanda, you still have people that argue Wakanda being a vehicle for anti pan-Africanism. I'm just sayin. Black folks with silver spoons and trusts funds often forget their black until the criminal justice system gets a hold of them.[/QUOTE]
They're are anti-pan African. But also a vehicle for it because its fictional and writers take different parts and put it together. But in universe, they are anti pan african. It's one of the major things they're known for. No outsiders.
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3613641]That's fair. Being a fan isn't the problem, so much as ONLY being a fan. If you are incapable of thinking in terms of what is best for the hero in terms of plot and character arc, and focus solely on the story you WANT to tell, you get stories that are, at best stale retreads (and at worst, actually damaging to the future potential of the title).
Another detail, of course, is when you use the book as merely a stepping stone to gain access to the characters you really want. While Coates is one example of that (see the last several pages of Storm discussion) an even better one would be ULTIMATES˛.
Everyone thought it was a team book, but in the end, it was really a "stealth" Galactus book. And while the BP fans got a few nice feats out of it, in the end, he was more or less a plot device to split up Logos, nothing more. Wasted potential, so Ewing could tell the story he wanted to tell.[/QUOTE]
[B]That is very solid. And honestly there is nothing wrong with telling a story you want to tell, but like you said, it becomes a bog problem when you disregard the Characteristics,plot and such for story and force a story regardless it's a big issue. Even worse when your story makes huge and damaging changes.. for literally no reason like Coates. It's unacceptable. He literally upheaved the entire mythos history and Tchallas power set to make him reliant on and give a power boost.. to two x men Characters.. let that sink In. Nothing Coates has changed has been to the benefit of Tchalla or Wakanda at all.
And yes Ewing was just as bad. Ultimates had so much potential that amounted to absolutely nothing at. Wasteof a good artist[/B]
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613313]I'm wondering who here can provide scans that definitively prove who the high priest of the Panther Clan was during the events of AvX? We have conflicting stories about who this mysterious person is considering T'Challa was not King of Wakanda at that period in time. I'm a fan that wants answer because certain things don't add up.
.[/QUOTE]
Will these suffice? T'Challa was remade Black Panther prior to AvX by Hickman in his Fantastic Four run
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613768]You'd essentially be proving Killmonger's point. In the same breath that you have people equating Christopher Columbus with Wakanda, you still have people that argue Wakanda being a vehicle for anti pan-Africanism. I'm just sayin. Black folks with silver spoons and trusts funds often forget their black until the criminal justice system gets a hold of them.[/QUOTE]
[B]You can't compare MU Wakanda to mcu Wakanda. They aren't the same and it vastly weakens your argument. Point is, Coates made a Columbus comparison using Wakanda, he also had the audacity to show Thunderball also in chains to and having Shuri clsay along the lines That he is a slave or some ****. People aren't just jumping to hate on Coates just because, like some bandwagon. Folks here call out thing's realistically. People said Issue 171 was his best issue ever. They give credit only where it's due. And one decent Issue doesn't undo all the damage he had done.
The only way one Issue could do that would be if that Issue basically made all of that bullshit go away and write it off as an alternate reality or something[/B]
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[QUOTE=Cville;3613792]They're are anti-pan African. But also a vehicle for it because its fictional and writers take different parts and put it together. But in universe, they are anti pan african. It's one of the major things they're known for. No outsiders.[/QUOTE]
I know. That's why I said. That exactly the views that do it a disservice in a way. I wanna draw attention to another irony that I just noticed from your words and the logic that informs them. The way you reference Wakanda is no different than how Storm was and is represented in the X-men. The one and only "exceptional ******" trope. That good ole, boy exception to the rule. The one above the rest. And, yes, that is what made them a staple, a standout and box office smash. But do you honestly believe to yourself that Wakanda's unraveling to the would have been met with the same can reaction if it sent the message that it was completely ok with leaving other African countries in squalor? You honestly believe that? So the idea of "It takes a village..." or the Civil Rights movement and Black people moving as one is something you're ok with Wakanda abandoning?
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Monthly reminder that you guys didn't appreciate Hickman enough.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3613824]I know. That's why I said. That exactly the views that do it a disservice in a way. I wanna draw attention to another irony that I just noticed from your words and the logic that informs them. The way you reference Wakanda is no different than how Storm was and is represented in the X-men. The one and only "exceptional ******" trope. That good ole, boy exception to the rule. The one above the rest. And, yes, that is what made them a staple, a standout and box office smash. But do you honestly believe to yourself that Wakanda's unraveling to the would have been met with the same can reaction if it sent the message that it was completely ok with leaving other African countries in squalor? You honestly believe that? So the idea of "It takes a village..." or the Civil Rights movement and Black people moving as one is something you're ok with Wakanda abandoning?[/QUOTE]
Yes, other countries that have more leave the poorer ones alone. Why does Wakanda "have" to do anything. It's their country, it's their choice.
Atlantis has advanced tech. In humans have advanced tech. Iron Man and Reed could probably knock out poverty in a weekend, but nobody holds them responsible for everyone else.
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[QUOTE=SKJoker;3613832]Monthly reminder that you guys didn't appreciate Hickman enough.[/QUOTE]
That's because he needs to learn to put the good stuff on panel instead of the science talk. If his run was more like "East of West" reminders wouldn't be needed. Lol
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[QUOTE=Cville;3613739]It's like Cornell Wests' evaluation. Brings up isseus, but does not offer solutions. That was Cornell right?[/QUOTE]
Oh he was definitely right on the money regarding Coates.
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[QUOTE=SKJoker;3613832]Monthly reminder that you guys didn't appreciate Hickman enough.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, I don't care for Hickman, either. (As you may have worked out by now, I'm REALLY picky. ;) . Comics are too expensive not to be)
His flaws are well-documented, but if you like, I can rattle off a list. :)