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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1675316][B]On another note, this gives a little more hope that Coates will do a good BP story.
[url]http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/all/2015/12/conceptualizing-the-black-panther/420759/[/url][/B][/QUOTE]
He mentioned See Wakanda and Die. And Priest. ANd Hudlin
Game. Set. Match.
No more worrying for me
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1675312]I hope we see a definitive clash between God Doom and T'Challa with epic on panel action and a clear win. I'm just not going to get my hopes up for something never shown in his entire arc[/QUOTE]
no way I am getting my hopes up for that. No way in hell lol.
For one, Doom is alive in iron man
for two, Reed vs Doom is gonnna happen
at best, T'challa weakens Doom
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1675316][B]On another note, this gives a little more hope that Coates will do a good BP story.
[url]http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/all/2015/12/conceptualizing-the-black-panther/420759/[/url][/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for this. I'm glad he's making thus an in going thing
Speaking of which. Alonso clarified that this is an ongoing
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1675204]Because focusing on the positive wont help the negative narrative. [/QUOTE]
What "negative" narrative?
Speaking for myself, I was one of the readers who defended Hickman against all critics during the [B]Infinity[/B] event (which I throughly) and the initial NA issues (especially NA#1) which I felt showed great promise so it's not as if I started of disliking Hickman's output from day one.
However, liking a writers previous work in no way obligates me to offer up praise when said writer begins to deliver material that I no longer find to my liking.
Furthemore, making observations and offering up critiques on said material does not constitute as being "negative" especially when mischaracterization is clearly cited and highlighted.
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1675204]We all realize that Hickman run on Panther doesnt end til Secret Wars does. The nebulous powers are actually serving a purpose. After all the character has gone through we now see him rocking an Infinity Gauntlet and commanding an army of the dead to fight Doom.[/QUOTE]
And yet, not one of you has been able to clearly state what T'Challa's KOTD "powers" outside of his "rocking an Infinity Gauntlet" and "commanding an army of the dead to fight Doom" albeit with an assist from Namor's trusty Trident thrown with unnering aim.
Writing a character down to fit the narrative of the story one seeks to tell, is not the mark of a good writer but more indicative of one who's rather selective in who they choose to write properly.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1675357]no way I am getting my hopes up for that. No way in hell lol.
For one, Doom is alive in iron man
for two, Reed vs Doom is gonnna happen
at best, T'challa weakens Doom[/QUOTE]
Yeah, T'Challa being up FIRST almost gurantees that Doom is going to get past T'Challa since the cover clearly implies a confrontation with Reed. So one probably shouldn't get their hopes too high as far as T'Challa flat out beating Doom. Or at least beating him initially... there's still an opportunity for him to play a big role in the story and in defeating Doom. Even if he doens't stop Doom on his own before Doom goes off to face the Reeds, it doesn't mean T'Challa has to vanish from the story.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1675204]Because focusing on the positive wont help the negative narrative.
We all realize that Hickman run on Panther doesnt end til Secret Wars does. The nebulous powers are actually serving a purpose. After all the character has gone through we now see him rocking an Infinity Gauntlet and commanding an army of the dead to fight Doom.[/QUOTE]
As far as negativity goes... I think a degree of hyper sensitivity probably comes with the territoriy for being fanboys. I'm sure Beast fans, whose guy was essentially KOed on the floor the entire fight, are scratching their heads wondering what some BP fans are complaining about in the stalemate.
As far as his KOTD powers being nebulous are concerned... really it was a specific power that could be used in a very specific situation. We didn't see him using it prior to that because as far as we know there weren't any zombies within 1000 miles of him in any situation he was in. But on Battleworld it literally became the most useful power anyone could ever hope for. The power to control zombies isn't something you necessarily are going to use on a daily basis, but it sure comes in handy when you're standing in front of an army of super powered marvel zombies. I think Hickman and Breevort even said he was given the powers for that one moment.
Part of me is curious if he'll keep the powers post Secret Wars.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1675418]Yeah, T'Challa being up FIRST almost gurantees that Doom is going to get past T'Challa since the cover clearly implies a confrontation with Reed. So one probably shouldn't get their hopes too high as far as T'Challa flat out beating Doom. Or at least beating him initially... there's still an opportunity for him to play a big role in the story and in defeating Doom. Even if he doens't stop Doom on his own before Doom goes off to face the Reeds, it doesn't mean T'Challa has to vanish from the story.[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=4]You're absolutely right.
T'Challa's just there to play the Finn role. [/SIZE]
[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/ip5u6h.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1675102]You guys are taking a throw away, maybe sentence uttered to a character with no history (WE are assuming he is like batman, he could be like Deathstroke for all we know) and getting offended by it.
Y'all turn into X-men fans sometimes. Yeesh[/QUOTE]
Fandom is its own worst enemy at times.
But as for the Squadron vs. Ultimates debate I'm not expecting much from that anyway. It's the Squadron's book so unless they're gonna end the title with everyone being taken to jail, they're gonna have everyone else job to them. Watch.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1675430]As far as negativity goes... I think a degree of hyper sensitivity probably comes with the territoriy for being fanboys. I'm sure Beast fans, whose guy was essentially KOed on the floor the entire fight, are scratching their heads wondering what some BP fans are complaining about in the stalemate. [/QUOTE]
There's nothing remotely "hyper sensitive" about any Black Panther mythos enthusiast raising concerns when a writer comes along and completely ignores pre-established characterization just to facilitate a story that ill fits most of the characters in question.
What fans of other characters choose to do is entirely up to them and as such, has zero relevance to how some T'Challa enthusiasts choose to react to what's been done with his character so far as part of Hickman's never ending, drawn out saga.
[QUOTE=XPac;1675430]As far as his KOTD powers being nebulous are concerned... really it was a specific power that could be used in a very specific situation. We didn't see him using it prior to that because as far as we know there weren't any zombies within 1000 miles of him in any situation he was in. But on Battleworld it literally became the most useful power anyone could ever hope for. The power to control zombies isn't something you necessarily are going to use on a daily basis, but it sure comes in handy when you're standing in front of an army of super powered marvel zombies. [/QUOTE]
Controlling zombies is one power.
What are the others?
I merely ask because you've repeatedly referenced "KOTD powers" in your post as opposed to "power" which would be more appropriate if we were referring to a singular ability.
[QUOTE=XPac;1675430]I think Hickman and Breevort even said he was given the powers for that one moment.[/QUOTE]
Or they just made things up as they went along. (which is more likely than not)
[QUOTE=XPac;1675430]Part of me is curious if he'll keep the powers post Secret Wars.[/QUOTE]
What powers? (nebulous or otherwise.)
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[QUOTE=Holt;1675441]Fandom is its own worst enemy at times.
But as for the Squadron vs. Ultimates debate I'm not expecting much from that anyway. It's the Squadron's book so unless they're gonna end the title with everyone being taken to jail, they're gonna have everyone else job to them. Watch.[/QUOTE]
Taken to jail on what grounds?
The squadron Supreme summarily executed an individual who had been responsible for multiple atrocities on his own planet as well as across multiple alternate realities and in doing so, they actually fulfilled a promise that T'Challa failed to follow through himself.
[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/2vn1ieh.jpg[/IMG]
Moving forward, I know which characters I take a helluva lot more seriously.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1675139]True that.
The "victim complex" in regards to T'challa just borders on fanatical X-men fanboy stuff sometimes. Especially since some people arent even f'ing reading the sentence at all, despite me typing it out verbatim and then someone posting the scan. Just hunting for reasons to be offended.
I honestly think it was a throw away line, Hickman biting off of past JL/Av fights.
BUT...
You could read it 100% the opposite way and give T'challa a huge amount of credit. At that point in the fight, T'challa STILL wasn't in kill mode. He was still trying to find another way out of this, trying to find another way they could work together. If you noticed in the actual scans, T'challa is doing NOTHING offensive. He is simply dodging and blocking. You could read it as T'challa trying to soften Ryder up a bit to get him to calm down.
It wasn't until Ryder basically said to F off, did T'challa pull his daggers and it is really on.
[img]https://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/new-avengers-20-3.jpg[/img]
[img]http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39001/3919769-na1.png[/img]
How come no one talks abotu the fact t'challa gets a dagger knocked out of mid air and catches the freaking fragment????[/QUOTE]
The thing is, even without that showing, I don't get the point of getting into a debate about stats. These aren't real people, so just listing their past feats means nothing. How the battle goes is depending on who the writer wants to win, and it's just that simple.
If they want the Ultimates to dominate, they will. If they want the Squadron to win we'll get some contrived prep time excuse about how they had a sun-draining weapon prepared for Monica or gravity shackles for America or some anti-vibranium weapon for T'Challa and so on.
We don't know how the fight is gonna go down but it's just weird that so much discussion was generated from a Batman analogue talking about power levels.
[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1675465]Taken to jail on what grounds?[/QUOTE]
They just had a whole point of showing SHIELD forming a task force to deal with the Squadron so obviously that's an angle that is going to be pursued in their book.
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[QUOTE=Holt;1675441]Fandom is its own worst enemy at times.
But as for the Squadron vs. Ultimates debate I'm not expecting much from that anyway. It's the Squadron's book so unless they're gonna end the title with everyone being taken to jail, they're gonna have everyone else job to them. Watch.[/QUOTE]
I sometimes sort of felt the fandom was it's own worst enemy during Liss' run. In the discussion threads for each issue you'd maybe get one page of posts praising how good the book was followed by another 10 complaining about the premise. I always thought it was sort of a shame given how good the book was. Ah well, water under the bridge...
And I agree about the Squadron likely having home field advantage. They HAVE to win or at least get away. THat's just what has to happen. There's a team book and 2 solo's coming out of this franchise, so they gotta be out there doing their thing.
Win, lose or draw if they can just give us a good fun fight without anyone being made to look bad or seriously job, I'll be happy.
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[QUOTE=Holt;1675468]The thing is, even without that showing, I don't get the point of getting into a debate about stats. These aren't real people, so just listing their past feats means nothing. How the battle goes is depending on who the writer wants to win, and it's just that simple.
If they want the Ultimates to dominate, they will. If they want the Squadron to win we'll get some contrived prep time excuse about how they had a sun-draining weapon prepared for Monica or gravity shackles for America or some anti-vibranium weapon for T'Challa and so on.
We don't know how the fight is gonna go down but it's just weird that so much discussion was generated from a Batman analogue talking about power levels.
They just had a whole point of showing SHIELD forming a task force to deal with the Squadron so obviously that's an angle that is going to be pursued in their book.[/QUOTE]
Given the power level of both teams, I don't believe it's really that hard at all to justify either team beating the other (assuming Galactus sits it out).
This is like the Warriors playing the Spurrs rather than the Warriors playing the McKinley High junior varsity basketball team. Even if one team is better than the other, they're in the same league... a given writer doesn't need to bend the laws of time and space to justify one beating the other. It's fairly believable either way. Even if you have one team which on paper can be argued is better than the other, it doesn't mean they're always going to win. Doesn't work that way in basketball, and it doesn't always work that way in fights (real fights or comic book fights).
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[QUOTE=XPac;1675475]I sometimes sort of felt the fandom was it's own worst enemy during Liss' run. [/QUOTE]
Worst enemy in what regard?
In the aftermath of Maberry's Doomwar, having T'Challa abandoning Wakanda to go play bargain basement [B][I]Batman Year One[/I][/B] in Daredevil's Hells Kitchen, was an utterly ridiculous premise roundly dismissed by Black panther enthusiasts and Daredevil fans pissed off at the fact that their favourite characters position was being "usurped" by T'Challa.
There was no tangible reason given for T'Challa opting to leave Wakanda other than some nebulous desire to go prove himself upon the mean streets of Hells Kitchen as if anything there was deadllier than threats he would have found in Wakanda.
The fact that T'Challa's whole gig right from day one, revolved around his having overcome all obstacles to become the Black Panther is something that some readers seem to overlook whilst attempting to justify the unjustifiable but i digress...
[QUOTE=XPac;1675475]In the discussion threads for each issue you'd maybe get one page of posts praising how good the book was followed by another 10 complaining about the premise. I always thought it was sort of a shame given how good the book was.[/QUOTE]
And it's my position that bearing the ridiculous premise in mind, readers were fully justified in voicing their displeasure both within the discussion threads as well as upon the actual letters pages in the boo itself.
David Liss won a lot of readers over with his engaging manner both here as well as within the aforementioned letters pages which in turn, led to many more readers giving the book a chance as Liss segued into the Kingpin Of Wakanda arc which heralded a true return to form for T'Challa and his supporting cast within Hells kitchen as well as Wakanda.
The decision to cancel the book had nothing to do with "fan dissatisfaction" but was solely down to an editorial decision to pave the way for avX.
End of.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1675355]He mentioned See Wakanda and Die. And Priest. ANd Hudlin
Game. Set. Match.
No more worrying for me[/QUOTE]
Made my day.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;1675514]Worst enemy in what regard?
In the aftermath of Maberry's Doomwar, having T'Challa abandoning Wakanda to go play bargain basement [B][I]Batman Year One[/I][/B] in Daredevil's Hells Kitchen, was an utterly ridiculous premise roundly dismissed by Black panther enthusiasts and Daredevil fans pissed off at the fact that their favourite characters position was being "usurped" by T'Challa.
There was no tangible reason given for T'Challa opting to leave Wakanda other than some nebulous desire to go prove himself upon the mean streets of Hells Kitchen as if anything there was deadllier than threats he would have found in Wakanda.
The fact that T'Challa's whole gig right from day one, revolved around his having overcome all obstacles to become the Black Panther is something that some readers seem to overlook whilst attempting to justify the unjustifiable but i digress...
And it's my position that bearing the ridiculous premise in mind, readers were fully justified in voicing their displeasure both within the discussion threads as well as upon the actual letters pages in the boo itself.
David Liss won a lot of readers over with his engaging manner both here as well as within the aforementioned letters pages which in turn, led to many more readers giving the book a chance as Liss segued into the Kingpin Of Wakanda arc which heralded a true return to form for T'Challa and his supporting cast within Hells kitchen as well as Wakanda.
The decision to cancel the book had nothing to do with "fan dissatisfaction" but was solely down to an editorial decision to pave the way for avX.
End of.[/QUOTE]
Lol Hells Kitchen Panther reminds me of Finn...ie the idea or character was terrible but he writing (Liss) or acting (John) with both showing engaging personalities was a minor miracle considering the s*** hand each got dealt.
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[QUOTE=JaggedFel;1675611]Lol Hells Kitchen Panther reminds me of Finn...ie the idea or character was terrible but he writing (Liss) or acting (John) with both showing engaging personalities was a minor miracle considering the s*** hand each got dealt.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say it was exactly a miracle that the writing was as good as it was. He seemed to be sort of a noir writer who was writing in his comfort zone. They picked the right writer for doing a title in Hells Kitchen.
Really the only question mark was whether or not they picked the right character for the book. You can certainly argue Falcon would have made more sense. But as I've said many times this was my favorite BP book since Priest, so I'm glad they had Liss writing Black Panther.
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Oh the writing was great the idea was dumb especially post DoomWar.
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[QUOTE=JaggedFel;1675627]Oh the writing was great the idea was dumb especially post DoomWar.[/QUOTE]
You can argue the status quo was somewhat of an odd fit (even though he actually did sort of take up the job for a bit back in the day).
That said, had he not been used in Man Without Fear he probably would have just ended up in Klaws of the Panther (which I don't think anyone particularly liked). So I think it all worked out for the best.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1675488]Given the power level of both teams, I don't believe it's really that hard at all to justify either team beating the other (assuming Galactus sits it out).
This is like the Warriors playing the Spurrs rather than the Warriors playing the McKinley High junior varsity basketball team. Even if one team is better than the other, they're in the same league... a given writer doesn't need to bend the laws of time and space to justify one beating the other. It's fairly believable either way. Even if you have one team which on paper can be argued is better than the other, it doesn't mean they're always going to win. Doesn't work that way in basketball, and it doesn't always work that way in fights (real fights or comic book fights).[/QUOTE]
I agree. Though I'm really interested to see who would come out on top in Zarda vs. Captain Marvel. It's basically Wonder Woman vs. Captain Marvel.
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[QUOTE=Holt;1675634]I agree. Though I'm really interested to see who would come out on top in Zarda vs. Captain Marvel. It's basically Wonder Woman vs. Captain Marvel.[/QUOTE]
They did fight in Busieks Avengers run briefly, and Zarda frankly got the better of it.
I think Carol would need to be Binary to really beat her. She wasn't able to do it at the time.
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[QUOTE=Holt;1675634]I agree. Though I'm really interested to see who would come out on top in Zarda vs. Captain Marvel. It's basically Wonder Woman vs. Captain Marvel.[/QUOTE]
[B]with what they are doing the Ultimates cant be beat by SS because of the threats they are taking on. So they should have a mild skirmish with SS retreating after figuring its not going in their favor because they are going against the biggest threat to them who would be prepared to take them on as well [/B]
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Liss took a bad premise and won imo.
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Liss obstacles for TChalla proving himself worthy.
Beatdown bootleg super soldier russian gangster
Stop Mort of the Month Hate Monger
Stop I Cant Believe Thats Hunter
Play patty cake with Kraven
Stop the plans of the Kingpin with the HELP of the Chocolate Super Friends.
That isnt Panther worthy.
Maybe Kasper Kole worthy but not for a guy who went up against the FF on his debut. Not the guy who pimp slapped the Devil.
Give me my Infinity Gauntlet wearing, Zombie Commanding, Black Dwarf humbling Black Panther. Sensitive brother he might be:)
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1675738]Liss obstacles for TChalla proving himself worthy.
Beatdown bootleg super soldier russian gangster
Stop Mort of the Month Hate Monger
Stop I Cant Believe Thats Hunter
Play patty cake with Kraven
Stop the plans of the Kingpin with the HELP of the Chocolate Super Friends.
That isnt Panther worthy.
Maybe Kasper Kole worthy but not for a guy who went up against the FF on his debut. Not the guy who pimp slapped the Devil.
Give me my Infinity Gauntlet wearing, Zombie Commanding, Black Dwarf humbling Black Panther. Sensitive brother he might be:)[/QUOTE]
I think the real point was to see what he could do without Wakandan resources and tech backing him up. Lets face it... Aunt May could be one of the most poweful beings on the planet if she had arguably the most technologically advanced nations on the planet backing her. This was T'Challa doing things completely on his own... without any Wakandan tech or resources. And without Basts power up. Just him. An uber smart skilled athletic fighter completely on his own.
Given that situation, the setting fit well enough. It isn't necessarily worthy of T'Challa with every resource at his disposal... but stripped of all of it, it works. You need prep and resources to pimp slap the devil... resources not available at Radio Shack.
I obviously wouldn't want T'Challa to do this sort of thing all the time, but as a short term thing I was more than fine with it. To me it was some of the best written Panther, with some of the strongest showings we've had in awhile.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1675738]Liss obstacles for TChalla proving himself worthy.
Beatdown bootleg super soldier russian gangster
Stop Mort of the Month Hate Monger
Stop I Cant Believe Thats Hunter
Play patty cake with Kraven
Stop the plans of the Kingpin with the HELP of the Chocolate Super Friends.
That isnt Panther worthy.
Maybe Kasper Kole worthy but not for a guy who went up against the FF on his debut. Not the guy who pimp slapped the Devil.
Give me my Infinity Gauntlet wearing, Zombie Commanding, Black Dwarf humbling Black Panther. Sensitive brother he might be:)[/QUOTE]
[B]And I'll take the Shadow Physics using, next gen Kimoyo wearing, teleporting through time and space to Galactus lair, and outsmarting Galactus Black Panther over that :cool:[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;1675790][B]And I'll take the Shadow Physics using, next gen Kimoyo wearing, teleporting through time and space to Galactus lair, and outsmarting Galactus Black Panther over that :cool:[/B][/QUOTE]
Lol....nice one. We are getting all Ric Flair in the council tonight.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1675738]Liss obstacles for TChalla proving himself worthy.
Beatdown bootleg super soldier russian gangster
Stop Mort of the Month Hate Monger
Stop I Cant Believe Thats Hunter
Play patty cake with Kraven
Stop the plans of the Kingpin with the HELP of the Chocolate Super Friends.
That isnt Panther worthy.
Maybe Kasper Kole worthy but not for a guy who went up against the FF on his debut. Not the guy who pimp slapped the Devil.
Give me my Infinity Gauntlet wearing, Zombie Commanding, Black Dwarf humbling Black Panther. Sensitive brother he might be:)[/QUOTE]
King T'Challa completely out maneuvered the Skrull invasion of Wakanda. Sorry if I missed that.
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[QUOTE=XPac;1675782]I think the real point was to see what he could do without Wakandan resources and tech backing him up. Lets face it... Aunt May could be one of the most poweful beings on the planet if she had arguably the most technologically advanced nations on the planet backing her. This was T'Challa doing things completely on his own... without any Wakandan tech or resources. And without Basts power up. Just him. An uber smart skilled athletic fighter completely on his own.
Given that situation, the setting fit well enough. It isn't necessarily worthy of T'Challa with every resource at his disposal... but stripped of all of it, it works. You need prep and resources to pimp slap the devil... resources not available at Radio Shack.
I obviously wouldn't want T'Challa to do this sort of thing all the time, but as a short term thing I was more than fine with it. To me it was some of the best written Panther, with some of the strongest showings we've had in awhile.[/QUOTE]
Argubably one of the five smartest people on the planet who has fighting ability on par with Cap, Black Widow, and so forth is dangerous with or without herb. You add to the fact that this man has understanding of the politics of this world that most could never know. You have the Worlds Most Dangerous Man. Little to nothing of what Liss wrote reflected that.
A man like that should have been taking down the World's most Wanted Criminals/Terrorists and putting them into a pine box. Not running a diner
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1676046]Argubably one of the five smartest people on the planet who has fighting ability on par with Cap, Black Widow, and so forth is dangerous with or without herb. You add to the fact that this man has understanding of the politics of this world that most could never know. You have the Worlds Most Dangerous Man. Little to nothing of what Liss wrote reflected that.
A man like that should have been taking down the World's most Wanted Criminals/Terrorists and putting them into a pine box. Not running a diner[/QUOTE]
Agreed, minus the pine box.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1676046]Argubably one of the five smartest people on the planet who has fighting ability on par with Cap, Black Widow, and so forth is dangerous with or without herb. You add to the fact that this man has understanding of the politics of this world that most could never know. You have the Worlds Most Dangerous Man. Little to nothing of what Liss wrote reflected that.
A man like that should have been taking down the World's most Wanted Criminals/Terrorists and putting them into a pine box. Not running a diner[/QUOTE]
[B]Hey atleast it would be the toughest diner in Hell's kitchen[/B]
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1676046]Argubably one of the five smartest people on the planet who has fighting ability on par with Cap, Black Widow, and so forth is dangerous with or without herb. You add to the fact that this man has understanding of the politics of this world that most could never know. You have the Worlds Most Dangerous Man. Little to nothing of what Liss wrote reflected that.
A man like that should have been taking down the World's most Wanted Criminals/Terrorists and putting them into a pine box. Not running a diner[/QUOTE]
That's an editorial thing though. I mean it didn't make sense for BP to be in Hell Kitchen in the first place. But I think Liss took a premise that was lemons and did his best to make lemonade out of it.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;1676099]That's an editorial thing though. I mean it didn't make sense for BP to be in Hell Kitchen in the first place. But I think Liss took a premise that was lemons and did his best to make lemonade out of it.[/QUOTE]
The Lemonade was bitter. Salty from the tears of TChalla having to struggle to be Radio Shack Batman. Luckily, the tears was off panel.
Liss stories were enjoyable but they were #NotMyPanther
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[QUOTE=MouserGrey;1675116]Movie armor? What about fan armor? I can't wait for legions of new BP fans to help protect him from mediocre writing and editorial.
I have hope Coates, WS, and his own movie will catapult BP into a strong A lister. The media coverage is only beginning. I can't wait for the first Fox news story on BP to galvanize and polarize a community around a hero/king unique in all of history and fiction.[/QUOTE]
It's already happening. You remember all those folks online and on social media immediately jumping on Entertainment Weekly for their captions of the cover? Even had some fans photoshop the cover outright.
That was really cool to see.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;1675139]True that.
The "victim complex" in regards to T'challa just borders on fanatical X-men fanboy stuff sometimes. Especially since some people arent even f'ing reading the sentence at all, despite me typing it out verbatim and then someone posting the scan. Just hunting for reasons to be offended. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1675204]Because focusing on the positive wont help the negative narrative.
We all realize that Hickman run on Panther doesnt end til Secret Wars does. The nebulous powers are actually serving a purpose. After all the character has gone through we now see him rocking an Infinity Gauntlet and commanding an army of the dead to fight Doom.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=XPac;1675430]As far as negativity goes... I think a degree of hyper sensitivity probably comes with the territoriy for being fanboys. I'm sure Beast fans, whose guy was essentially KOed on the floor the entire fight, are scratching their heads wondering what some BP fans are complaining about in the stalemate. [/QUOTE]
I personally don't care much for the BP vs Batman analogue fight or the throwaway line. However, considering all the stuff T'Challa and Wakanda has gone through in the past 5 years, I completely understand BP fans being critical or "hypersensitive" (and I would not call it hypersensitive at all, as the strong majority of complaints are very fair and reasonable). Your favorite character / universe bring decontructed constantly can make that happen. And quite frankly, I think, as a collective, we tolerate things a bit too much sometimes.
I mean, despite the so-called "victories" T'Challa has garnered thorough the years, including in New Avengers / Secret Wars, a lot of us are already preparing for the likely possibility that it will amount to not much, or dare I say near nothing at all. That says a lot.
Lastly, when it comes to BP, we're better off not give the critics an inch. Same for editorial and/or writers that enter into bs territory. We've seen on panel what happens when we do.
Side note: in terms of fanaticism, we are [B]nowhere[/B] close to the level of X-Men fans.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;1676099]That's an editorial thing though. I mean it didn't make sense for BP to be in Hell Kitchen in the first place. But I think Liss took a premise that was lemons and did his best to make lemonade out of it.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, that's all on editorial. Liss did a great job considering he was given a very strange premise. He ended up winning a lot of fans over, myself included. Then Marvel decides to cancel the book.
A Liss run with a good premise, whether in Wakanda or elsewhere, would've been very interesting to read.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;1676046]Argubably one of the five smartest people on the planet who has fighting ability on par with Cap, Black Widow, and so forth is dangerous with or without herb. You add to the fact that this man has understanding of the politics of this world that most could never know. You have the Worlds Most Dangerous Man. Little to nothing of what Liss wrote reflected that.
A man like that should have been taking down the World's most Wanted Criminals/Terrorists and putting them into a pine box. Not running a diner[/QUOTE]
Putting people in pine boxes isn't what most heroes, T'Challa included, typically.
But as far as dealling with some of the worlds most dangerous criminals... it's probably why he chose to work in Hells Kitchen.
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;1676338]I personally don't care much for the BP vs Batman analogue fight or the throwaway line. However, considering all the stuff T'Challa and Wakanda has gone through in the past 5 years, I completely understand BP fans being critical or "hypersensitive" (and I would not call it hypersensitive at all, as the strong majority of complaints are very fair and reasonable). Your favorite character / universe bring decontructed constantly can make that happen. And quite frankly, I think, as a collective, we tolerate things a bit too much sometimes.
I mean, despite the so-called "victories" T'Challa has garnered thorough the years, including in New Avengers / Secret Wars, a lot of us are already preparing for the likely possibility that it will amount to not much, or dare I say near nothing at all. That says a lot.
Lastly, when it comes to BP, we're better off not give the critics an inch. Same for editorial and/or writers that enter into bs territory. We've seen on panel what happens when we do.
Side note: in terms of fanaticism, we are [B]nowhere[/B] close to the level of X-Men fans.[/QUOTE]
I think a lot of writers these days like deconstruction.
Wolverine was depowered and killed off. Captain America has lost his mantle for the second time, first being killed off and now being depowered. Thor lost his arm & hammer (no trademark infringement intended) and his very name to his ex-girlfriend. Stark was invested and is having cash flow issues for the gazillionth time.
Really the only big name character that has it good these days is ironically Spider-Man. And he's coming off losing his marriage and getting his body hijacked by Doc Oc.
For whatever reason, perhaps simply preference, I think writers enjoy putting these characters through ringer more than just having them punch out bad guys. But the upside is that all of it is temporary... they go back to status quo soon enough. Steve will be back as Cap, Odinson will be back as Thor, Stark will be making it rain again soon enough, and all will be well with the world... until the next writer comes along and messes with them again. We are seemingly seeing T'Challa that way as he seemingly has everything back that he lost since Doom War.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;1676099]That's an editorial thing though. I mean it didn't make sense for BP to be in Hell Kitchen in the first place. But I think Liss took a premise that was lemons and did his best to make lemonade out of it.[/QUOTE]
Would people have prefereed it if Liss used say Falcon instead?
I agree it would have made more sense, but I personally still would prefer T'Challa because if nothing else, I like T'Challa better and want to see him in an on-going more.