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Marvel Premiere #53 - [i]The Ending, In Anger[/i]
[img]https://www.use.com/images/s_2/3d6c9050906f2d6eb452_8.jpg[/img]
This issue opens with a splash page of a newspaper. The quote from offscreen says "if there's anything I hate more than having my cases splashed across the front page, it's loose ends." I feel the same way. Apparently we're still in New York with a detective interrogating Leroy Ames (Angela's boyfriend). The fact that he's up here strongly suggests he's involved with the Dragon Circle and T'Challa had suggested that he killed Wind Eagle. This is the first of several unsatisfying ways to tie things up. I'm not necessarily opposed to Ames being involved, although there wasn't much to suggest it last time (in a typical mystery, the known last person to see someone alive should be a red herring). In Georgia, T'Challa is trying to remember more of his memory. He only knows The Reverend has something to do with it. He visits a Dragon Circle member in jail and remembers that he had been kidnapped and they tried to indoctrinate him. When they failed, they erased his memory.
We see scenes of the Klan and the Dragon Circle worried about the other and preparing for war. Both believes the Black Panther works for the other. We see the Reverend, who says they must destroy the Klan at all costs. At this point, one member speaks up, saying he thought they were a peaceful organization. We see that member is Monica's dad, who apparently has been with the Dragon Circle this entire time. This is unsatisfying conclusion number two (or maybe three since The Reverend just seems like "some dude."). In fact, this is more than unsatisfying. It feels like character assassination and it really adds nothing to the story.
Anyway, Mr. Lynne gets attacked by his cult and T'Challa rescues him. Then T'Challa sees that the Klan attacked and captured the Reverend. They're taking him by boat somewhere rather than killing him there when they get lost in a fog. They end up at a plantation where they find Monica's ancestor, Caleb, for some reason, and the Soul Strangler as well. Supposedly, the Soul Strangler is an embodiment of hate. T'Challa punches it a bunch of times and they all disappear. I don't mind supernatural in a Black Panther story, but this is just weird. It's weird and stupid and has nothing to do with the story that had been set up.
With that out of the way, the Dragon Circle comes clean and confesses to Angela's murder. Apparently, they had as much to lose as the Klan if the real estate deals were exposed. T'Challa gives his blessing to Kevin Trublood and Angela marrying - something I'm sure Don McGregor decided to completely ignore, even assuming he was aware of it.
I remembered seeking out these issues long ago because I wanted an end to McGregor's story. When I read the end, I realized that was a terrible mistake. Looking back, I'll say this. I don't mind the first two issues. It's only this issue that I hate. And I really do hate it. I think it throws everything established out, it pulls brand new things out of its ass for no reason, and it has no idea what the point of the story is. I also can't help but think if it's undercutting the evil of the Klan in the way the Dragon Circle gets blamed. It doesn't shy away from the Klan being badguys but that's about as far as its ever willing to go. This is a terrible story.
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[QUOTE=Klaue's Mixtape;3819355]Which is why its kind of scary for me to see so much "he's better in CW or IW talk"
Its almost like fans are trying to hint at that T'Challa needs to be like Darth Vader or the Hulk. Meaning they work better the less time you see them. Its why although incredible (honestly the best Marvel hero performance since Winter Soldier and would have been ever if they gave him more fight scenes) I do think they need to double down in the sequel. Gotta shut up the detractors who directly or indirectly think T'Challa needs to be more of a side character with just a limited viewpoint.
[/QUOTE]
[B]Eh its less that they want to see less of him and more so they want him to be a more one track mind. Like CW BP was revenge mode, and that's all he cared about. In his Solo we saw him as a new king, a warrior, a brother, a son, a best friend, a lover, a commander and a sympathetic cousin and there were more Layers to him then simply "Kill Bucky, o don't care about anything else" and honestly, the vast majority of people like Tchalla in his movie, and the ones who said he was overshadowed by his cast and didn't Like that they took away screen time, forget that most other heroes supporting cast is garbage. Most notably Thor's. Hos warriors 3 had a cast member changed and no one noticed, and in Rag they died and no one gave two shits. Tchallas cast actually matters and they are interesting, Which means more expansion of his franchise after his 3 solos [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3819460][B]Eh its less that they want to see less of him and more so they want him to be a more one track mind. Like CW BP was revenge mode, and that's all he cared about. In his Solo we saw him as a new king, a warrior, a brother, a son, a best friend, a lover, a commander and a sympathetic cousin and there were more Layers to him then simply "Kill Bucky, o don't care about anything else" and honestly, the vast majority of people like Tchalla in his movie, and the ones who said he was overshadowed by his cast and didn't Like that they took away screen time, forget that most other heroes supporting cast is garbage. Most notably Thor's. Hos warriors 3 had a cast member changed and no one noticed, and in Rag they died and no one gave two shits. Tchallas cast actually matters and they are interesting, Which means more expansion of his franchise after his 3 solos [/B][/QUOTE]
Sounds like they want Karl Urbans' version of "Dredd". It is a good movie, but Dredd is supposed to be a one dimensional character. Lol
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3819022]T'challa came across a lot more uncompromising and enigmatic in Civil War in my humble opinion. Clearly delineated fight scenes both in and out of ceremonial habit were also on evidence in CW and T'Challa's final dialogue with Zeno was solid.[/QUOTE]
I agree!
Plus, despite his fresh emotional loss, BP still kept his emotions under wraps, unlike Steve, Tony, and even the Vision.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3819373][B] Which is fine because it wasn't his movie and he literally just lost his father and his murderer was at Large. We aren't going to get a very friendly Tchalla nor would I expect it, unless they went that stupid Noble negro route. However, in his own movie?
You can't have a guy who Just lost his father a week ago, being thrust Into the role of King, be this uncompromising and enigmatic person as he was said he felt he wasn't ready and asked his father what he should do. His father told him to surround himself with people he trusted and that's why we start seek out his supporting cast have more development and get into their minds as to what they are thinking.
We had a Tchalla that had to balance being a part, a king, a good man, and a superhero. I felt he was personally pretty badass when he was chasing Klaw down and had it not been that so many people were around he would of killed him outright "Every breathe you take is Mercy from me"
All in all, he couldn't be the same Tchalla in CW in terms of being revenge mode because there was so much more going on in his movie and now his actions affected his nation even more then before. Finally, in regards to his skills that's why I feel the warriors falls fights are arguably the best fights in the MCU. They are on even (not really as Tchalla is depowered and fights at a disadvantage) grounds and it's just a brutal fight. No trick's or powers just straight up skill[/B][/QUOTE]
Some of my thoughts from viewing the movie again last night.
1. First BP fight scene is incredible (now that it wasn't underlit)
2. Yea I'm coming around to the belief the Warrior Falls fights are the best in the MCU. The only possible issue with the M'Baku fight was that the lighting might be a tad flat and the CGI was spotty at times on the cliff. I liked that they were fighting when its bright, but it could have maybe be done in a more dynamic way. However, the actual setup and fight were incredible. The Killmonger fight is visual perfection. The lighting, the CGI, etc. The only thing I would have liked more of would have been a longer fight and more dialogue from Killmonger. I'm betting in the longer cut we get more of that fight as well.
The final fight obviously should have been better. However, I'm blown away when people say the action was mediocre or bad in this movie. Its just not as rapid like other MCU films.
Also weird to see so many media outlets have BP in the 10 movies of the year so far yet checking twitter, message boards its left off the top 10. Crazy.
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[QUOTE]
Why ‘Black Panther’s T’Challa Is a Better Man Than Most Superheroes
As the most substantial film Marvel Studios has made to date, Black Panther has a lot going on. With a nearly all-black cast and few ties to the overall Marvel Cinematic Universe, the film allowed co-writer/director Ryan Coogler to dig deep into thematic issues he felt important to tackle with a story of this kind. Indeed, in telling the story of T’Challa’s (Chadwick Boseman) ascent to the throne, Black Panther forces its characters to question their place in the world—do they owe it to those of African descent elsewhere to share their technology and weapons and offset their oppression, or do they maintain their isolationist position as they have for centuries? The entry of Michael B. Jordan’s American-raised Killmonger offers a contrast between the African and African-American experience, and the film digs deep into the complex issues of racism, violence, and combatting oppression in a way that offers no easy answers.
But Black Panther digs into other thematic issues as well, and one in particular strikes as being unique in the pantheon of machismo-focused superhero movies: masculinity. Black Panther is an undeniably female-focused film. T’Challa may be the Black Panther, but his most trusted allies, advisors, and generals are all women. The smartest person in the world? Shuri (Letitia Wright). Wakanda’s greatest spy? Nakia (Lupita Nyong’o). The personal bodyguards of the Black Panther? All women, led by Okoye (Danai Gurira). This is no accident, and in the character of T’Challa, Coogler and Boseman present a man with enough self-confidence to know when the women around him are his betters. His relationship with Shuri, for instance, is not quite the James Bond/Q repartee—Shuri doesn’t look to T’Challa for acceptance or praise, she knows she’s got the goods. She’s showing them off, and even uses him as a test subject.
Image via Marvel Studios
It’s about more than gender equality, however, as the film takes a pretty serious look at fragile masculinity and the way in which men are raised to deal with (or not deal with, more often than not) their emotions. T’Challa and Killmonger both openly weep at multiple points in the film, as two incredibly strong men struggling to come to terms with their pasts, and specifically their relationships with their fathers. But T’Challa is also strong enough to know the way T’Chaka (John Kani) led is not the way he wants to lead, while Killmonger—who lost his father as a young boy—has nothing but revenge on his mind. In his world, it’s an eye for an eye, and it shows how men can be tempted to do what’s expected rather than what’s right.
Young boys are told to “be a man” or “man up,” both of which are loaded commands. What does it mean to be a “man” in this context? Don’t cry. Don’t be overly emotional. If someone wrongs you or your family, handle it with your fists. Be strong. Fight. Don’t run. Don’t try and talk your way out, that’s for sissies. Make your dad/uncle/brothers/cousins proud. Physical violence is masculine. Diplomacy is feminine, and in a masculine-fueled world, there’s seemingly no greater sin for a man than to show signs of femininity.
Image via Marvel Studios
Killmonger verbalizes this mentality when he arrives in Wakanda, seeking to take the throne away from T’Challa. His father was murdered by T’Chaka. He can’t change that. But he can “make it right” by fighting T’Challa to the death. He’s not here to talk or be diplomatic, he’s here to “get his.” To be fair, as per the ritual combat the Wakandan leaders do physically fight to settle disagreements of who should be in charge, but the film is aware of the silliness of that logic. Okoye says she can’t run away with Nakia, Shuri, and Ramonda because she swore an oath to protect the Black Panther whoever that may be, citing the ritual. But Nakia fires back, pointing out that just because Killmonger “won” the ritual combat doesn’t make him a good or worthy king. Screw what’s expected of you; do what’s right.
Indeed, many of the women in the film are far more advanced in their thinking and actions than many of the men. This is reflected in one strongly emotional moment, when T’Challa resurfaces and the Wakandan men look to W’Kabi (Daniel Kaluuya) to see what to do. Do they follow Killmonger’s orders and attack T’Challa, or do they stand down and turn on Killmonger? W’Kabi, driven by his anger towards Klaue for the death of his parents and desire to follow Killmonger’s New World Order—in which the oppressed rise up with violence against their oppressors—decides to attack T’Challa, and the rest of the men follow suit. Because that’s what they’re expected to do.
Image via Marvel Studios
The all-female Dora Milaje, however, turns on Killmonger. They do what’s right. It’s a striking sight, to see the men attacking T’Challa and the Dora Milaje fighting with passion against Killmonger, and it visualizes an emotional contrast.
Black Panther’s approach to masculinity feels especially unique when compared to other superhero movies. Bruce Wayne in The Dark Knight or even Tony Stark in Iron Man respond to violence with more violence, refusing to collaborate with others, often to their own detriment. Their brand of machismo dictates that they must go it alone, do everything themselves, and that’s their cross to bear. But it’s also self-serving, as Bruce and Tony are both kings of their own isolated kingdoms, wherein saving other people is good for the savior—it feeds their egos. These films do also force Bruce and Tony to collaborate with others at times—with Jim Gordon and Pepper Potts, respectively—and both characters do so reluctantly even though it’s necessary to make them better people. But Tony and Bruce still ascribe to the brand of masculinity that meets violence with violence, and that stands tall, beating its chest.
Image via Marvel Studios
T’Challa, on the other hand, is all about collaboration. He’s a king looking out for Wakanda’s best interests, and that means listening to his people, heeding their advice, and asking for help. He’s openly contemplating the future of Wakanda with W’Kabi, asking him if they should open their borders or remain isolated. And he steps into Busan with Okoye and Nakia at his side, working as a team, not forcing them to stay behind while he deals with the threat.
This is but one of many layers to Black Panther, yet it feels like a vitally important one. That Coogler is able to drill down so specifically into this particular idea of masculinity without detracting from the story, but actually enhancing it, is yet another testament to his talent as a filmmaker. Ryan Coogler has something to say here, and he articulates it in a way that’s accessible, succinct, and deeply moving. And in this day and age—especially in the realm of blockbuster filmmaking—that’s a rarity. [/QUOTE]
[url]http://collider.com/black-panther-masculinity-superhero-movies/#ryan-coogler[/url]
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[QUOTE=Cville;3819474]Sounds like they want Karl Urbans' version of "Dredd". It is a good movie, but Dredd is supposed to be a one dimensional character. Lol[/QUOTE]
I thought the Civil War version worked great for the movie, but there really wasn't a whole lot to the character. In CW he was basically regal, but reckless Blade. He would pop up out of nowhere, look really cool fighting and move on. Final dialogue was very good, but overall I prefer T'Challa in BP >> CW.
The difference is we didn't get the WOW moments as much as you'd expect. If he had more scenes truly going ham then people would really appreciate just how dynamic the character is. When we finally started getting them in the 3rd act unfortunately the action/CGI wasn't as crisp and creative as it was earlier in the movie. We got more human, out of the suit and layered T'Challa.
If I was Nate Moore during reshoots I would have ensured that we get that 2 or 3 scene of T'Challa truly showing showmanship/charisma during or after a fight. We didn't get the "I don't care" or "Why did you run!" moments. Put the camera directly on BP's face as he has those moments. Its why the "Every breath you take is mercy" worked so well in the film. A few more of those + better CGI (saving up for IW, smh) would have went a long way to get others on board. Hopefully in the sequel though.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;3819376]Marvel Premiere #53 - [i]The Ending, In Anger[/i]
[img]https://www.use.com/images/s_2/3d6c9050906f2d6eb452_8.jpg[/img]
This issue opens with a splash page of a newspaper. The quote from offscreen says "if there's anything I hate more than having my cases splashed across the front page, it's loose ends." I feel the same way. Apparently we're still in New York with a detective interrogating Leroy Ames (Angela's boyfriend). The fact that he's up here strongly suggests he's involved with the Dragon Circle and T'Challa had suggested that he killed Wind Eagle. This is the first of several unsatisfying ways to tie things up. I'm not necessarily opposed to Ames being involved, although there wasn't much to suggest it last time (in a typical mystery, the known last person to see someone alive should be a red herring). In Georgia, T'Challa is trying to remember more of his memory. He only knows The Reverend has something to do with it. He visits a Dragon Circle member in jail and remembers that he had been kidnapped and they tried to indoctrinate him. When they failed, they erased his memory.
We see scenes of the Klan and the Dragon Circle worried about the other and preparing for war. Both believes the Black Panther works for the other. We see the Reverend, who says they must destroy the Klan at all costs. At this point, one member speaks up, saying he thought they were a peaceful organization. We see that member is Monica's dad, who apparently has been with the Dragon Circle this entire time. This is unsatisfying conclusion number two (or maybe three since The Reverend just seems like "some dude."). In fact, this is more than unsatisfying. It feels like character assassination and it really adds nothing to the story.
Anyway, Mr. Lynne gets attacked by his cult and T'Challa rescues him. Then T'Challa sees that the Klan attacked and captured the Reverend. They're taking him by boat somewhere rather than killing him there when they get lost in a fog. They end up at a plantation where they find Monica's ancestor, Caleb, for some reason, and the Soul Strangler as well. Supposedly, the Soul Strangler is an embodiment of hate. T'Challa punches it a bunch of times and they all disappear. I don't mind supernatural in a Black Panther story, but this is just weird. It's weird and stupid and has nothing to do with the story that had been set up.
With that out of the way, the Dragon Circle comes clean and confesses to Angela's murder. Apparently, they had as much to lose as the Klan if the real estate deals were exposed. T'Challa gives his blessing to Kevin Trublood and Angela marrying - something I'm sure Don McGregor decided to completely ignore, even assuming he was aware of it.
I remembered seeking out these issues long ago because I wanted an end to McGregor's story. When I read the end, I realized that was a terrible mistake. Looking back, I'll say this. I don't mind the first two issues. It's only this issue that I hate. And I really do hate it. I think it throws everything established out, it pulls brand new things out of its ass for no reason, and it has no idea what the point of the story is. I also can't help but think if it's undercutting the evil of the Klan in the way the Dragon Circle gets blamed. It doesn't shy away from the Klan being badguys but that's about as far as its ever willing to go. This is a terrible story.[/QUOTE]
I didn't think it was terrible but it's clear that the mission was to simply end the story for the sake of ending the story. The meta-gag of the splash page still makes me laugh though.
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[QUOTE=Klaue's Mixtape;3819653]I thought the Civil War version worked great for the movie, but there really wasn't a whole lot to the character. In CW he was basically regal, but reckless Blade. He would pop up out of nowhere, look really cool fighting and move on. Final dialogue was very good, but overall I prefer T'Challa in BP >> CW.
The difference is we didn't get the WOW moments as much as you'd expect. If he had more scenes truly going ham then people would really appreciate just how dynamic the character is. When we finally started getting them in the 3rd act unfortunately the action/CGI wasn't as crisp and creative as it was earlier in the movie. We got more human, out of the suit and layered T'Challa.
If I was Nate Moore during reshoots I would have ensured that we get that 2 or 3 scene of T'Challa truly showing showmanship/charisma during or after a fight. We didn't get the "I don't care" or "Why did you run!" moments. Put the camera directly on BP's face as he has those moments. Its why the "Every breath you take is mercy" worked so well in the film. A few more of those + better CGI (saving up for IW, smh) would have went a long way to get others on board. Hopefully in the sequel though.[/QUOTE]
[B]He did have those moments.
- I Neva freeze
- I accept your challenge M'Baku (I don't care equivalent)
- Every breathe you take ia mercy from me (why did you run equivalent)
- I'm your king lines (to Zuri)
- I know who you are lines (to Erik)
- All of you were wrong
He had those moments.
Also again BP had the highest budget for a solo film. I think the bigger issue was time. They needed 2 more months to clean up the mine, but most of the other areas the cgi is on point
[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3819732][B]He did have those moments.
- I Neva freeze
- I accept your challenge M'Baku (I don't care equivalent)
- Every breathe you take ia mercy from me (why did you run equivalent)
- I'm your king lines (to Zuri)
- I know who you are lines (to Erik)
- All of you were wrong
He had those moments.
Also again BP had the highest budget for a solo film. I think the bigger issue was time. They needed 2 more months to clean up the mine, but most of the other areas the cgi is on point
[/B][/QUOTE]
1. Like the line, but it was more for comedy. I'm talking badass action scenes.
2. Thats a T'Challa scene, not a BP scene.
3. Mentioned that one.
4. Same as #2
5. Same as #2
6. Same as #2
I think I know why the movie is divisive for some people. Some people went into the theater with an open mind (maybe little knowledge of BP or maybe not even watched CW) and just accepted the vision and journey Coogler decided to display. Then there are those who went in expecting Black Panther action. Sort of expected his Civil War scenes...but for 2hrs 20 mins.
This went another direction is why its heralded as one of the GOAT comicbook movies.
However, in doing so they didn't give enough BLACK PANTHER memorable lines. Superb lines as T'Challa, but in the suit he didn't have enough iconic lines/actions.
Still think this can be improved upon. However, I know a few people that said they appreciated the movie more once they looked at it as an ensemble/Wakanda movie instead of just as a solo superhero flick.
Its an easy fix for the sequel though.
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With the mask on, i dont mind the lack of lines.
Once the mask is on, the king is gone. Its warrior time.
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[QUOTE=Klaue's Mixtape;3819781]1. Like the line, but it was more for comedy. I'm talking badass action scenes.
2. Thats a T'Challa scene, not a BP scene.
3. Mentioned that one.
4. Same as #2
5. Same as #2
6. Same as #2
I think I know why the movie is divisive for some people. Some people went into the theater with an open mind (maybe little knowledge of BP or maybe not even watched CW) and just accepted the vision and journey Coogler decided to display. Then there are those who went in expecting Black Panther action. Sort of expected his Civil War scenes...but for 2hrs 20 mins.
This went another direction is why its heralded as one of the GOAT comicbook movies.
However, in doing so they didn't give enough BLACK PANTHER memorable lines. Superb lines as T'Challa, but in the suit he didn't have enough iconic lines/actions.
Still think this can be improved upon. However, I know a few people that said they appreciated the movie more once they looked at it as an ensemble/Wakanda movie instead of just as a solo superhero flick.
Its an easy fix for the sequel though.[/QUOTE]
[B] Pretty sure most people saw the I Neva freeze as a badass line. Just watch the reaction videos on YouTube to the trailer or look at the comment sections in the trailer. Also. Tchalla IS the black panther, any line he says is the one and the same. He isn't Spiderman or Batman who has a secret identity, then that would have more weight. Also if you wanted another *Black Panther" scene. When he confidently strides forward to Erik with his I am not dead speech is another good one. Frankly action speaks louder then words and so I didn't personally need a whole lot of speeches or anything and so his lines were good for me.
Black Panther does more then just standard run of the mill superhero action movie and to me that's always more memorable when the action set pieces has thought put into them rather then just 40 minutes of fighting. Remember man of steel and BvS had long fight set pieces and those dragged on. I'm glad BP didn't go that route [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3819892][B] Pretty sure most people saw the I Neva freeze as a badass line. Just watch the reaction videos on YouTube to the trailer or look at the comment sections in the trailer. Also. Tchalla IS the black panther, any line he says is the one and the same. He isn't Spiderman or Batman who has a secret identity, then that would have more weight. Also if you wanted another *Black Panther" scene. When he confidently strides forward to Erik with his I am not dead speech is another good one. Frankly action speaks louder then words and so I didn't personally need a whole lot of speeches or anything and so his lines were good for me.
Black Panther does more then just standard run of the mill superhero action movie and to me that's always more memorable when the action set pieces has thought put into them rather then just 40 minutes of fighting. Remember man of steel and BvS had long fight set pieces and those dragged on. I'm glad BP didn't go that route [/B][/QUOTE]
I get what you are saying, but the reality is there are more who think CW BP > Coogler's BP. I don't feel that way, but gotta think of a way to find a balance so that he is fully embraced. It seems the public wants more threatening in the suit T'Challa. So its important that they make him more dynamic and captivating in the suit so that people can embrace the layered/political side later on.
Marc Bernardin was very critical of him.
Hate to say it, but the way people talk about T'Challa this year almost reminds me of Cavill's Superman (circa Man of Steel) except in a better received film. Not inspirational, badass or charismatic enough. A lot of that flack stemmed from the character finding his place in the world and not being the exact comic version. I've skimmed enough pages here to see even people are saying it here as well (Coogler's version).
I love what they've done. However, I don't want to keep defending him or having to explain away for the next film. Double down on the next film so we can dead all this "Shuri should be BP", "BP is better with the Russos", "BP needs to be a side character", etc etc.
Up his badassery in the sequel so we can put to rest all the B.S. Boseman's gonna crush it regardless, but I want him fully embraced by the fans as a lead character.
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[QUOTE=Klaue's Mixtape;3819949]I get what you are saying, but the reality is there are more who think CW BP > Coogler's BP. I don't feel that way, but gotta think of a way to find a balance so that he is fully embraced. It seems the public wants more threatening in the suit T'Challa. So its important that they make him more dynamic and captivating in the suit so that people can embrace the layered/political side later on.
Marc Bernardin was very critical of him.
Hate to say it, but the way people talk about T'Challa this year almost reminds me of Cavill's Superman (circa Man of Steel) except in a better received film. Not inspirational, badass or charismatic enough. A lot of that flack stemmed from the character finding his place in the world and not being the exact comic version. I've skimmed enough pages here to see even people are saying it here as well (Coogler's version).
I love what they've done. However, I don't want to keep defending him or having to explain away for the next film. Double down on the next film so we can dead all this "Shuri should be BP", "BP is better with the Russos", "BP needs to be a side character", etc etc.
Up his badassery in the sequel so we can put to rest all the B.S. Boseman's gonna crush it regardless, but I want him fully embraced by the fans as a lead character.[/QUOTE]
[B] The reality is the numbers dont lie. If Tchalla was the weak link (he wasn't) then his movie wouldn't of been crushing records.
I have noticed you seek out negative review's or look at comment sections of YouTube as if that is a basis that Black Panther wasn't good.
Haters gonna hate. Even IF they did all the things the haters asked for they would change their tune "too Much violence" "he's supposed to be a king, why he is allowed to beat up all these bad guys and not have any consequences" or "the action sets were long and drug out like in BvS or MoS"
Black Panther has been fully Embraced by fans. There's a reason why his movie has broken so many records, his toys have been sold out, people all over did the Wakanda forever salute months after the movie dropped.
Haters. Gonna. Hate. Regardless.
They just noise dude, they hate that BP has beaten out their favorite heroes [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3819373][B] Which is fine because it wasn't his movie and he literally just lost his father and his murderer was at Large. We aren't going to get a very friendly Tchalla nor would I expect it, unless they went that stupid Noble negro route. However, in his own movie?
You can't have a guy who Just lost his father a week ago, being thrust Into the role of King, be this uncompromising and enigmatic person as he was said he felt he wasn't ready and asked his father what he should do. His father told him to surround himself with people he trusted and that's why we start seek out his supporting cast have more development and get into their minds as to what they are thinking.
We had a Tchalla that had to balance being a part, a king, a good man, and a superhero. I felt he was personally pretty badass when he was chasing Klaw down and had it not been that so many people were around he would of killed him outright "Every breathe you take is Mercy from me"
All in all, he couldn't be the same Tchalla in CW in terms of being revenge mode because there was so much more going on in his movie and now his actions affected his nation even more then before. Finally, in regards to his skills that's why I feel the warriors falls fights are arguably the best fights in the MCU. They are on even (not really as Tchalla is depowered and fights at a disadvantage) grounds and it's just a brutal fight. No trick's or powers just straight up skill[/B][/QUOTE]
Bruv, I'm as hardcore a BP enthusiast as anyone posting in this thread but to be Frank, I wasn't that jazzed about T'Challa's fight scenes in the BP movie. Captain America:Winter Soldier has the best hand-to-hand combat sequences in the Post Blade MCU.
The Russo Brothers really had T'challa doing the damn thing in Civil War and I was expecting more of the same in the BP movie.
Unfortunately, that never happened.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;3820077]Bruv, I'm as hardcore a BP enthusiast as anyone posting in this thread but to be Frank, I wasn't that jazzed about T'Challa's fight scenes in the BP movie. Captain America:Winter Soldier has the best hand-to-hand combat sequences in the Post Blade MCU.
The Russo Brothers really had T'challa doing the damn thing in Civil War and I was expecting more of the same in the BP movie.
Unfortunately, that never happened.[/QUOTE]
[B]I respect that brother Maj, however, for his scenes in CW Coogler overlooked T'Challas scenes as the Russos didn't want to do anything that might impact BP's movie so they had Coogler take on scenes involving Tchalla.
Also again I feel that warrior falls scenes were arguably the best because it's straight up equal fights. No guns no Vibranium shield. Two dudes in shorts and weapons of war. Tchalla gets brought back to normal human level. I dunno man those were great imo because it shows that Tchalla is great not only outside the suit like CW made sure of (to shut up haters saying his suit gives him some advantage) but BPs Solo takes it a step further by taking his power away which leaves him even more weakened then of he didn't take the hsh because he has been used to that level for 8 years.
To me that's more impressive especially Given we see that M'Baku for instance is strong enough to lift a full grown man with armor and gear with one hand and fling them at least 10+ feet. There is room for improvement as is always the case with any movie. But also remember this is his first solo, and he straight crushed it. That is something to remember, especially when people were expecting (except me *cough* *cough*) bp to do strange levels[/B]
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Who said fight scenes... :cool:
[video=youtube;ABXSwsnlmPc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABXSwsnlmPc[/video]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3819977][B]Haters. Gonna. Hate. Regardless.
They just noise dude, they hate that BP has beaten out their favorite heroes [/B][/QUOTE]
I don't think that's the only reason (although I'm sure it's a major contributory factor). You also have to remember this:
Bitchers. Gonna. Bitch.
I've talked about this before: While the movie was being made, it felt like 4 out of 5 posters were going "this movie is going to suck", based solely on their interpretation of the movies.
Filming in Atlanta? The film will take place mostly in the US. It's gonna suck.
It takes place mostly in Wakanda? Cap & his team will help save the day, because that's where they were at the end of CW. It's gonna suck.
No Shuri casting announcement? It's gonna suck.
And so on. Hell, even before the movie, people bitched when they thought that AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON took plave in Wakanda, instead of South Africa,
Then the movie comes out. Barely 10 minutes in the US, no sign of Steve Rogers at all. And Shuri has a major supporting role.
The movie SHATTERS box-office records, right and left. Even 48-year old Italian-American geeks enjoy it so much, they watch it more than once.
Are they happy? Of course not. Because the movie doesn't match the image in their heads 100%, it STILL sucks, to a certain class of fan. They pick one or two minor details, blow them up out of proportion, and go trawling for comments & reviews that support the idea, simply so they can feel justified in complaining, because complaining is all that makes them happy.
Or, in short:
Bitchers. Gonna. Bitch.
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[QUOTE=Klaue's Mixtape;3819949]I get what you are saying, but the reality is there are more who think CW BP > Coogler's BP. [/QUOTE]
In the reality where people go looking for negative articles, sure. Confirmation biasy as hell.
Just like the "chadwick sucked" stuff going on in here... that was constant (by like 3 people). And claimed "everyone" thought he sucked.
Then Chadwick goes and wins MTV awards and shit, which is much closer to the "masses" than internet nerd forums, and those people go quiet for awhile.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3819977][B] The reality is the numbers dont lie. If Tchalla was the weak link (he wasn't) then his movie wouldn't of been crushing records.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR="#A52A2A"]I have noticed you seek out negative review's or look at comment sections of YouTube as if that is a basis that Black Panther wasn't good.
[/COLOR][/FONT]Haters gonna hate. Even IF they did all the things the haters asked for they would change their tune "too Much violence" "he's supposed to be a king, why he is allowed to beat up all these bad guys and not have any consequences" or "the action sets were long and drug out like in BvS or MoS"
Black Panther has been fully Embraced by fans. There's a reason why his movie has broken so many records, his toys have been sold out, people all over did the Wakanda forever salute months after the movie dropped.
Haters. Gonna. Hate. Regardless.
They just noise dude, they hate that BP has beaten out their favorite heroes [/B][/QUOTE]
I should have known way back then, you know why Ezro1000?
Because of MindofShadow and the kids!
[img]http://gifimgs.com/res/0718/5b5f1698bd599049143037.gif[/img]
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It is just a variant cover but....
[img]http://community.comicbookresources.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68819[/img]
[img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/486c5af4f5227a2d8e72fc23415e9a09/tenor.gif?itemid=4616916[/img]
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3820311]I don't think that's the only reason (although I'm sure it's a major contributory factor). You also have to remember this:
Bitchers. Gonna. Bitch.
I've talked about this before: While the movie was being made, it felt like 4 out of 5 posters were going "this movie is going to suck", based solely on their interpretation of the movies.
Filming in Atlanta? The film will take place mostly in the US. It's gonna suck.
It takes place mostly in Wakanda? Cap & his team will help save the day, because that's where they were at the end of CW. It's gonna suck.
No Shuri casting announcement? It's gonna suck.
And so on. Hell, even before the movie, people bitched when they thought that AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON took plave in Wakanda, instead of South Africa,
Then the movie comes out. Barely 10 minutes in the US, no sign of Steve Rogers at all. And Shuri has a major supporting role.
The movie SHATTERS box-office records, right and left. Even 48-year old Italian-American geeks enjoy it so much, they watch it more than once.
Are they happy? Of course not. Because the movie doesn't match the image in their heads 100%, it STILL sucks, to a certain class of fan. They pick one or two minor details, blow them up out of proportion, and go trawling for comments & reviews that support the idea, simply so they can feel justified in complaining, because complaining is all that makes them happy.
Or, in short:
Bitchers. Gonna. Bitch.[/QUOTE]
[B]Ah Yea I forgot that one, thanks brother BoG. Yeah bitchers gonna bitch.
Steve's gonna save the day, it's going to take place in the US. Ross is in the movie? It's gonna suck as he is going to have a major role and save the day.
After the movie dropped, Tchalla wasn't compelling, everyone outshone him. Okoye is a better fighter then Tchalla because Nakia said she was the greatest warrior in Wakanda (since Tchalla was presumed dead)
Shit how bad it got back then you would of thought coming into this thread that the movie flopped[/B]
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[QUOTE=Klaue's Mixtape;3820464]I should have known way back then, you know why Ezro1000?
Because of MindofShadow and the kids!
[img]http://gifimgs.com/res/0718/5b5f1698bd599049143037.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
[B]In just saying man, the last two YouTube videos, BP vs tdk, and the Oscar video. You were super worried about the comment section.. the ones filled with 13 yr olds and racists slamming BP with every excuse they can. The MTV awards show the true nature of the impact BP has made. And Chadwick got award's because people not on YouTube can see how well he performed. Not try to act salty because he beat out bats.
There is also a reason people want BP to get nominated at the Oscars because they believe it will revitalize them since there has been a decline going on[/B]
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;3820112]Who said fight scenes... :cool:
[video=youtube;ABXSwsnlmPc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABXSwsnlmPc[/video][/QUOTE]
Did you see the video that showed Riely vs Ester was copied from Saskue vs Orochimaru? Boondocks knew how to find the good fights.
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[QUOTE=Cville;3820647]Did you see the video that showed Riely vs Ester was copied from Saskue vs Orochimaru? Boondocks knew how to find the good fights.[/QUOTE]
No, but I spotted a clear homage to Bruce Lee's [I]Enter the Dragon[/I] in this vid.
Plus the [I]Flying Guillotine[/I] movies, of course.
(And I think Bushido Brown looked a bit like Afro Samurai, but that may just be me. ;) )
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3820538]It is just a variant cover but....
[img]http://community.comicbookresources.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68819[/img]
[img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/486c5af4f5227a2d8e72fc23415e9a09/tenor.gif?itemid=4616916[/img][/QUOTE]
this was too and had nothing to do with the story:
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/d7/d5/dcd7d53172d90f54ffc04184a18a90d6.jpg[/img]
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[QUOTE=butterflykyss;3820715]this was too and had nothing to do with the story:
[/QUOTE]
... yet .....
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[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;3820697]No, but I spotted a clear homage to Bruce Lee's [I]Enter the Dragon[/I] in this vid.
Plus the [I]Flying Guillotine[/I] movies, of course.
(And I think Bushido Brown looked a bit like Afro Samurai, but that may just be me. ;) )[/QUOTE]
[B]He is a homage to Jim Kelly. Even threw in a line in the episode "Let's nab Oprah" he tells Huey "you come straight outta a comic book" is in reference to Jim Kellys line in enter the dragon "you come straight outta a Comic strip"
Bushido brown was my favorite character next to Huey.
I think Mcgruder could make a very entertaining BP comic [/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3820754][B]He is a homage to Jim Kelly. Even threw in a line in the episode "Let's nab Oprah" he tells Huey "you come straight outta a comic book" is in reference to Jim Kellys line in enter the dragon "you come straight outta a Comic strip"
Bushido brown was my favorite character next to Huey.
I think Mcgruder could make a very entertaining BP comic [/B][/QUOTE]
And a bit of Kareem-Abdul Jabbar in [I]Game of Death[/I], I suspect.
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Storm: "WOLVERINE FOREVER!"
The Wakandan Trinity stared blankly back and forth at each other shaking their collective heads.
Princess Shuri: "You really don't love my brother do you!"
General Okoye: "Yeah, i've seen enough!"
Queen Nakia: "Why are you doing this to yourself... Like totally Bye Felicia!"
Storm: "Wait, let me try again!"
Storm crosses her left arm over her right corrects herself reshuffling her arms multiple times looking at the Wakandan Trinity for approval.
General Okoye: "Just stop!"
Princess Shuri: "This is so sad!"
Queen Nakia: "GOSH-DANG-DARNIT-DOO-HICKEY... I will give you 1.3 billion dollars to just GO AWAY!!!"
This Storm/Wolverine/Black Panther triangle is getting old!
NEXT!!! :cool:
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They are making me do this... :cool:
Burbank, California.
TNC storms (yes storms) down the hall past Pixar, ESPN, ABC, Marvel Studios and a couple of cosplaying dudes dressed as Pluto and Goofy until he reaches his destination.
The X-office.
Hearing a loud knock at the door the X-office employees scramble around a bit.
X-office: "OMG it's him everybody be quiet and act normal."
The door is answered...
X-office: "TNC, what brings you here?"
TNC: "Uhm... I don't know if you guys know this or not but I'm trying to work on the relationship between Black Panther and Storm."
X-office: "Oh yeah we heard about that how can we help?"
TNC: "Well... You could help by not featuring Storm with Wolverine so much... I mean look at this cover."
X-office: "Aw my bad I don't know how that slipped through editorial but it won't happen again I promise."
TNC: "Ok thanks I appreciate it."
Crossing his arms...
X-office: "WAKANDA FOREVER!"
As TNC turns to walk back up the hallway he can hear faint giggles behind the now closing door.
X-office: "Anyways... Let's get back on topic. I say we have Storm also run through the other X-men like Gambit, Scott, Kurt and let's bring Yukio back in the mix with some steamy scenes. Also let's explore a sexy magnetic relationship between Storm and Magneto in sort of a father figure gone bad role. We also have Sebastian Shaw on deck... Juggernaut... Toad... Sabretooth... Let's get to work people!"
X-editorial: "I thought you told TNC that won't happen again."
Various X-office personnel burst into laughter some sprawling out gut busting on the floor.
X-office: "Let's break for lunch... I can't with you man keep up!"
Strolling up the hallway confidently with a gleeful smile...
TNC: "It's so great working here knowing that everybody is on the same page and so cooperative!"
(sigh and whatnot) ;)
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3820538]It is just a variant cover but....
[img]http://community.comicbookresources.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68819[/img]
[img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/486c5af4f5227a2d8e72fc23415e9a09/tenor.gif?itemid=4616916[/img][/QUOTE]
You just couldn't help yourself, could you.
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[QUOTE=FLEX HECTIC;38208
[B][B]This Storm/Wolverine/Black Panther triangle is getting old![/B][/B]
NEXT!!! :cool:[/QUOTE]
You left out Jean/Yukio/Some San Francisco chick/Mystique
And Kymera...there is a child involved.
Hudlin warned us about this with that dream sequence.
I am a supporter of the Black Panther Storm union but not like this...T'Challa needs to take that character off of the pedestal and go enjoy life...Storm is a 'friend' among 'friends' at this stage in the game.
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1 Attachment(s)
On to other things: T'Challa vs the Tiger God
[ATTACH=CONFIG]68834[/ATTACH]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3820538]It is just a variant cover but....
[img]http://community.comicbookresources.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68819[/img]
[img]https://media1.tenor.com/images/486c5af4f5227a2d8e72fc23415e9a09/tenor.gif?itemid=4616916[/img][/QUOTE]
YOU are going need a LOT more tea than that. Can we just get Johnny Storm to heat up Lake Michigan and brew a lake for everyone to sip.
[QUOTE] get what you are saying, but the reality is there are more who think CW BP > Coogler's BP. I don't feel that way, but gotta think of a way to find a balance so that he is fully embraced. It seems the public wants more threatening in the suit T'Challa. So its important that they make him more dynamic and captivating in the suit so that people can embrace the layered/political side later on.
Hate to say it, but the way people talk about T'Challa this year almost reminds me of Cavill's Superman (circa Man of Steel) except in a better received film. Not inspirational, badass or charismatic enough. A lot of that flack stemmed from the character finding his place in the world and not being the exact comic version. I've skimmed enough pages here to see even people are saying it here as well (Coogler's version). [/QUOTE]
The LINE of folks who wanted that movie to fail started at the LEFT.
Including one guy who deemed this was the movie that would KILL Marvel Studios and bankrupt Disney. If Tomorrow land & John Carter didn't kill Disney than nothing will.
He attacked black folks for supporting white supremacy of Black Panther and not supporting black creators like himself.
This went on from the first teaser trailer to the movie release.
He went to go see it with an "Open mind"-how open minded are you to say F-word Ryan Coolger-you proved you are a product of a single mother household.
He got EMBARRASSED. So what did he do?
He now says Cap Marvel, Ms Marvel & Riri Williams will RUIN the Marvel film studios and how low Marvel thinks of YOU black folks that they say Cap Marvel is the new face of the next phase of Marvel film not that Panther you supported. He only did this in 2 videos. He went HAM on Panther in at least 7.
Now do we need Marvel to say Panther is the face of the next phase of Marvel films? Box office doesn't LIE. Toy sales don't LIE. Trade sales don't LIE.
I don't need it to be said. I can SEE IT. All folks wanted was a well done movie with a BLACK MALE in the lead. CGI and all that other stuff don't matter to that hunger.
It didn't matter to me because this was the FIRST Marvel movie-I saw in theaters. I LEFT work early to see it. I bought the Steelbook blue ray.
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[QUOTE=LastManStanding;3821068]On to other things: T'Challa vs the Tiger God
[ATTACH=CONFIG]68834[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
[B]I would of liked to see this fight. Honestly all of T'Challas cool fights as of late have been off panel[/B]
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[QUOTE=LastManStanding;3821068]On to other things: T'Challa vs the Tiger God
[ATTACH=CONFIG]68834[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
Superior material.
ZERO milquetoast.
ZERO prayers from Wakandans for a powerup.
Just one WAKANDAN KING against an ancient deity.
That's the T'Challa I want to read about.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3819373][B] Which is fine because it wasn't his movie and he literally just lost his father and his murderer was at Large. We aren't going to get a very friendly Tchalla nor would I expect it, unless they went that stupid Noble negro route. However, in his own movie?
You can't have a guy who Just lost his father a week ago, being thrust Into the role of King, be this uncompromising and enigmatic person as he was said he felt he wasn't ready and asked his father what he should do. His father told him to surround himself with people he trusted and that's why we start seek out his supporting cast have more development and get into their minds as to what they are thinking.
We had a Tchalla that had to balance being a part, a king, a good man, and a superhero. I felt he was personally pretty badass when he was chasing Klaw down and had it not been that so many people were around he would of killed him outright "Every breathe you take is Mercy from me"
All in all, he couldn't be the same Tchalla in CW in terms of being revenge mode because there was so much more going on in his movie and now his actions affected his nation even more then before. Finally, in regards to his skills that's why I feel the warriors falls fights are arguably the best fights in the MCU. They are on even (not really as Tchalla is depowered and fights at a disadvantage) grounds and it's just a brutal fight. No trick's or powers just straight up skill[/B][/QUOTE]
Bro, I hear what you're saying but here's the thing.
Okoye had much more solid fight choreography on display than T'Challa in the Black Panther movie whereas the BP on display in CA:CW was pure fire and completely in control of every fight sequence he was depicted in that movie both in and out of ceremonial garb.
Though wracked with grief and a desire for revenge against whoever was responsible for his Father's murder, T'Challa showed a steely determination and pragmatic approach to tracking down his prey and in the end, preventing said prey from taking the cowards way out.
I saw the BP movie twice on the big screen and will pick up the blu-ray no doubt, but I know that I felt underwhelmed by most the post M'Baku fight scenes featuring T'Challa most especially the CGI laden final battle with Killmonger.
Doesn't make me a "hater" or detractor.
