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[QUOTE=goku200;3619311]Trailers can't be trusted, A bad film can have great trailers. They hyped up Black panther in the trailers so they can get his many new fans to come to IW, so they better give his new fans something great. If he's background dressing. That's misleading and it's not right .[/QUOTE]
While it's true that a bad film can have great trailers, I don't think we can necessarily judge how good or bad a film this is based on how much or how little Black Panther is in it. We have to remember that this is an Avengers film... not a BLack Panther film. ANd it's an Avengers film with a MASSIVE cast. THe Russos did a great job juggling multiple heroes in Civil War, but this practically doubles even that. Aside from maybe Thor, Captain America, Iron Man and of course Thanos we can't necessarily assume ANY character is going to have a large part. Not with a cast this big.
Yes, a portion of the movie does take place in Wakanda. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's his movie. I think we just need to go into the movie with realistic expectation.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3619536]While it's true that a bad film can have great trailers, I don't think we can necessarily judge how good or bad a film this is based on how much or how little Black Panther is in it. We have to remember that this is an Avengers film... not a BLack Panther film. ANd it's an Avengers film with a MASSIVE cast. THe Russos did a great job juggling multiple heroes in Civil War, but this practically doubles even that. Aside from maybe Thor, Captain America, Iron Man and of course Thanos we can't necessarily assume ANY character is going to have a large part. Not with a cast this big.
Yes, a portion of the movie does take place in Wakanda. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's his movie. I think we just need to go into the movie with realistic expectation.[/QUOTE]
Black panther should have a big role in the film or don't market him huge to take from the many new Black panther fans without giving them what they want to see.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3619532]It's also going to have bad legs in the US like Cap 3, I just hope the new BP fans don't help save the legs.[/QUOTE]
Cap 3 had bad legs?
[QUOTE=Dboi654;3619492]There is the thread on Reddit which is apparently true.[/QUOTE]
I know the thread and I have serious doubts about it for a few reasons I won't get into, but will see.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3619559]Black panther should have a big role in the film or don't market him huge to take from the many new Black panther fans without giving them what they want to see.[/QUOTE]
BP is a part of the marketing certainly, and he's obviously in it. But Marvel never said this was a BP film, so there's no reason to think he will be the star of it. And I think we all know he won't be ... that's why we'really having this conversation in the first place. Because deep down we all know that despite being prominent in some of the trailers the film likely isn't going to focus on him.
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This film was scripted and in production before the Black Panther movie even dropped. People need to be realistic about this
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3619612]This film was scripted and in production before the Black Panther movie even dropped. People need to be realistic about this[/QUOTE]
We on the internet knew Disney didn't think Black panther would be their biggest solo film ever. IW was also filmed at the same time as BP. Most of the people that saw Black panther are new fans and think BP had a huge role in Iw because the marketing. Disney just wants that new Black panther money. They know Black panther is huge now. Bp will have a huge role in the Avengers 5 and other films now on.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3619604]BP is a part of the marketing certainly, and he's obviously in it. But Marvel never said this was a BP film, so there's no reason to think he will be the star of it. And I think we all know he won't be ... that's why we'really having this conversation in the first place. Because deep down we all know that despite being prominent in some of the trailers the film likely isn't going to focus on him.[/QUOTE]
[B] Clearly people Know this isn't Black panther 1.5, what people ARE saying though, is that marvel is highlighting BP abd Wakanda in an attempt to get more of the fans from the movie into IW. As it's been Said multiple times, because BP blew up as much as he did, Marvel is leaning heavily on getting those fans. If he did DS numbers, then the IW teaser trailer would probably be about as much BP and Wakanda we would get till the movie dropped[/B]
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The Spoilers are true I'll leave it at that..
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[QUOTE=goku200;3619649]We on the internet knew Disney didn't think Black panther would be their biggest solo film ever. IW was also filmed at the same time as BP. Most of the people that saw Black panther are new fans and think BP had a huge role in Iw because the marketing. Disney just wants that new Black panther money. They know Black panther is huge now. Bp will have a huge role in the Avengers 5 and other films now on.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;3619695][B] Clearly people Know this isn't Black panther 1.5, what people ARE saying though, is that marvel is highlighting BP abd Wakanda in an attempt to get more of the fans from the movie into IW. As it's been Said multiple times, because BP blew up as much as he did, Marvel is leaning heavily on getting those fans. If he did DS numbers, then the IW teaser trailer would probably be about as much BP and Wakanda we would get till the movie dropped[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm just saying that's what marketing does, especially movie marketing. For decades trailers have made movies look much better than they are and have cherry picked to highlight actors or moments that would entice the largest possible audience. Also I don't think it is a given BP has a big role in Avengers 5. [B]He should[/B], but you can only put so much faith in studios or executives no one bats a thousand forever.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3619823]I'm just saying that's what marketing does, especially movie marketing. For decades trailers have made movies look much better than they are and have cherry picked to highlight actors or moments that would entice the largest possible audience. Also I don't think it is a given BP has a big role in Avengers 5. [B]He should[/B], but you can only put so much faith in studios or executives no one bats a thousand forever.[/QUOTE]
We've already acknowledged this. It doesn't change the truth of the situation. Black Panther brought in a lot of new fans to MCU movies. There were multiple stories about Black Panther inspiring new viewers that were never intrested in Marvel movies. Most of those fans tat were so enamored with him, more than likely saw trailers IW and made the assumption "I'm gonna be treated to more visual feasts of Wakanda". When those people come to see King T'Challa of Wakanda and aren't given what they expected, it isn't likely that they will return for second and third viewings. A lot of seconds and thirds played into Black Panther's success.
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I wonder what the reaction from the general audience will be if all the leaks are true.
Sensing a bit of the Last Jedi reaction/backlash but maybe not as much.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3619855]We've already acknowledged this. It doesn't change the truth of the situation. Black Panther brought in a lot of new fans to MCU movies. There were multiple stories about Black Panther inspiring new viewers that were never intrested in Marvel movies. Most of those fans tat were so enamored with him, more than likely saw trailers IW and made the assumption "I'm gonna be treated to more visual feasts of Wakanda". When those people come to see King T'Challa of Wakanda and aren't given what they expected, it isn't likely that they will return for second and third viewings. A lot of seconds and thirds played into Black Panther's success.[/QUOTE]
This. I tried to say this but sadly I'm in 10-page essay mode half the time. :'( The general public and new fans only know of the movies and don't research these things, they will take everything at face value. Even though yes trailers can lie they may not make the connection this time around. They'll just say "MORE Black Panther! Word!"
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3619855]We've already acknowledged this. It doesn't change the truth of the situation. Black Panther brought in a lot of new fans to MCU movies. There were multiple stories about Black Panther inspiring new viewers that were never intrested in Marvel movies. Most of those fans tat were so enamored with him, more than likely saw trailers IW and made the assumption "I'm gonna be treated to more visual feasts of Wakanda". When those people come to see King T'Challa of Wakanda and aren't given what they expected, it isn't likely that they will return for second and third viewings. A lot of seconds and thirds played into Black Panther's success.[/QUOTE]
The trailer does show lots of fighting in Wakanda, so I think it's a given we'll get that. But they shouldn't expect that he's going to be the focus of the movie. Even in those movie trailer spots, he's sharing the screen with like a dozen other super heroes.
As far as people returning for a second and third viewing... every other Avengers movie has hit the billion dollar mark, so this one should be fine. If it flops then yeah... marvel and Disney would have a lot of egg on their face over it given the build up.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3619823]I'm just saying that's what marketing does, especially movie marketing. For decades trailers have made movies look much better than they are and have cherry picked to highlight actors or moments that would entice the largest possible audience. Also I don't think it is a given BP has a big role in Avengers 5. [B]He should[/B], but you can only put so much faith in studios or executives no one bats a thousand forever.[/QUOTE]
I don't put my faith in any studio. I put my faith in facts. If Disney wants to miss out on that Black Panther money. Black panther will not have a huge role in Avengers 5 or other films. They can only deceive people with marketing for so long before people stop coming back
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[QUOTE=XPac;3619886]The trailer does show lots of fighting in Wakanda, so I think it's a given we'll get that. But they shouldn't expect that he's going to be the focus of the movie. Even in those movie trailer spots, he's sharing the screen with like a dozen other super heroes.
As far as people returning for a second and third viewing... every other Avengers movie has hit the billion dollar mark, so this one should be fine. If it flops then yeah... marvel and Disney would have a lot of egg on their face over it given the build up.[/QUOTE]
This movie is going to make a lot of money outside of the United States so the chance of it flopping would be very minimal due to the large fanbase.
The United States box office however is what we nee to look out for just because the USA is where BP made most of its money and that would affect IW if fans are left unfilled and disappointed. However, I still think IW will be huge overall. 2 billion at least but I might be overestimating the numbers.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;3619906]This movie is going to make a lot of money outside of the United States so the chance of it flopping would be very minimal due to the large fanbase.
The United States box office however is what we nee to look out for just because the USA is where BP made most of its money and that would affect IW if fans are left unfilled and disappointed. However, I still think IW will be huge overall. 2 billion at least but I might be overestimating the numbers.[/QUOTE]
I'm hoping it does well enough to try this again, because I'm sure the movie was probably ridiculously expensive to make and a lot of hard work. Unless this does ridiculously well, I doubt they would try something like this again.
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[QUOTE=XPac;3619886]The trailer does show lots of fighting in Wakanda, so I think it's a given we'll get that. But they shouldn't expect that he's going to be the focus of the movie. Even in those movie trailer spots, he's sharing the screen with like a dozen other super heroes.
As far as people returning for a second and third viewing... every other Avengers movie has hit the billion dollar mark, so this one should be fine. If it flops then yeah... marvel and Disney would have a lot of egg on their face over it given the build up.[/QUOTE]
Last Avengers films aka Cap 3 and Avengers 3 had trash legs. Their legs were a joke to Black panthers legs, last Avengers made all it's money from fanboys on opening weekend, then dropped like a rock, Seems Disney is trying to use Black panther new fanbase to get them legs but not respect the fanbase that's giving you them new huge legs.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3619915]Last Avengers films aka Cap 3 and Avengers 3 had trash legs. Their legs were a joke to Black panthers legs, last Avengers made all it's money from fanboys on opening weekend, then dropped like a rock, Seems Disney is trying to use Black panther new fanbase to get them legs but not respect the fanbase that's giving you them new huge legs.[/QUOTE]
As long as you're getting what you see in the trailer (ie BP fighting alongside the Avengers in Wakanda), I don't think it'll be a huge problem. Again, nothing promises that he will be the focal point of the movie. Just that he alongside a bunch of other heroes will take part in this epic battle in Wakanda. If we're getting what the trailers are advertising, then I don't see them as really disprespecting anyone.
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When can we post spoilers?
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;3619906]This movie is going to make a lot of money outside of the United States so the chance of it flopping would be very minimal due to the large fanbase.
The United States box office however is what we nee to look out for just because the USA is where BP made most of its money and that would affect IW if fans are left unfilled and disappointed. However, I still think IW will be huge overall. 2 billion at least but I might be overestimating the numbers.[/QUOTE]
Nope, IW is not making no where near 2 BILLION, max at 1.7 billion. USA box office is more important then overseas. this is because Disney gets much more of the money at home. IW will make most of it's money overseas. Iw will have bad legs here. Only way it legs hold as well as Black panther is if the new fan base the MCU got from BP comes out every week for 10 weeks like they did for BP.
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[QUOTE=BBeeryan;3619855]We've already acknowledged this. It doesn't change the truth of the situation. Black Panther brought in a lot of new fans to MCU movies. There were multiple stories about Black Panther inspiring new viewers that were never intrested in Marvel movies. Most of those fans tat were so enamored with him, more than likely saw trailers IW and made the assumption "I'm gonna be treated to more visual feasts of Wakanda". When those people come to see King T'Challa of Wakanda and aren't given what they expected, it isn't likely that they will return for second and third viewings. A lot of seconds and thirds played into Black Panther's success.[/QUOTE]
The situation you are describing is to be expected and there is nothing that can be done about it. That's marketing, and its always been marketing. This isn't BP 2, more like Civil War x 10.
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[QUOTE=Montez;3619935]When can we post spoilers?[/QUOTE]
not until Friday.
If you want to direct/personal message people thats fine
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3619946]The situation you are describing is to be expected and there is nothing that can be done about it. That's marketing, and its always been marketing. This isn't BP 2, more like Civil War x 10.[/QUOTE]
Hopefully It's legs are like Civil Wars too.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3619955]Hopefully It's legs are like Civil Wars too.[/QUOTE]
might be. Cvil War didn't have bad legs. That film didn't do nearly as well as Black Panther for all the reasons we realize, but Black Panther is one of the best films in movie history and its box-office success validates that.
I also don't think your giving fans enough credit. My parents and older relatives went out to see Black Panther and they don't even like superhero films. They most likely won't see IW. Black Panther was an event! I have friends who don't watch too many movies, that work on Wall Street etc. and don't follow movies or pop culture like I do, but they saw Black Panther. The Black Panther film was the event of 2018. I don't think people should expect IW too replicate that. I feel bad for people who might think that because they will be disappointed.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3619955]Hopefully It's legs are like Civil Wars too.[/QUOTE]
Civil Wars box office like quadrupled it's budget, so I don't think Disney or Marvel would mind too much if this movie did the same.
Course, I doubt infinity War will do that well given it was twice as expensive to make. But in the same breath, I'm not sure any of us really need to lose any sleep over how well it will perform at the box office. Avengers franchise I'm sure will do just fine.
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Studio doesn't give a **** about legs.
All that matters is the total as soon as possible. They get a MUCH higher percentage of the ticket percentage the first few weeks.
The more "known" the movie is, the less legs it is going to have because people are going to see it as soon as possible. If it is "must see" with "must see hype," people go see it ASAP. Which is what the studios want.
Trailers only job is to get people to the theater once in the first 2 weekends. If these "new" fans that came for BP go to IW even once, the marketing team 100% did their job and won. Doesn't matter what their reaction is after the fact. These people would have never seen IW otherwise.
Acting like CW failed in any shape way or form is hilarious.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;3619998]Studio doesn't give a **** about legs.
All that matters is the total as soon as possible. They get a MUCH higher percentage of the ticket percentage the first few weeks.
The more "known" the movie is, the less legs it is going to have because people are going to see it as soon as possible. If it is "must see" with "must see hype," people go see it ASAP. Which is what the studios want.
Trailers only job is to get people to the theater once in the first 2 weekends. If these "new" fans that came for BP go to IW even once, the marketing team 100% did their job and won. Doesn't matter what their reaction is after the fact. These people would have never seen IW otherwise.
Acting like CW failed in any shape way or form is hilarious.[/QUOTE]
Ask WB if they care about legs after Batman v Superman dropped like a rock and Wonder woman had huge legs, Civil war was a fail only because it's Avengers 2.5 not a solo film, so it should have been much bigger.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3620159]Ask WB if they care about legs after Batman v Superman dropped like a rock and Wonder woman had huge legs, Civil war was a fail only because it's Avengers 2.5 not a solo film, so it should have been much bigger.[/QUOTE]
If BvS had earned over a billion dollars, I doubt WB would care what sort of legs their movie had either. When you quadruple your budget, you're in pretty good shape regardless of whether that money came week 1 or week 4.
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Im reading some of the critics reviews overall pretty positive..
It does seem like the critics were more excited for BP SOLO
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Listening to Grace Randolph's review, she did have some issues with the BP characters.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;3620299]Listening to Grace Randolph's review, she did have some issues with the BP characters.[/QUOTE]
She is problematic so freak her
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[QUOTE=Montez;3620313]She is problematic so freak her[/QUOTE]
From what she said, I think her reasoning are quite legitimate in the sense that she expected more.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3619559]Black panther should have a big role in the film or don't market him huge to take from the many new Black panther fans without giving them what they want to see.[/QUOTE]
FYI a lot of times who makes the trailers are NOT the same folks who make the film.
Also my I remind everybody of the following-we have seen trailers showcase black folks doing a lot to get US in the theaters and then REALITY hits.
Lets list some previous offenders-
Star Wars TFA & LJ Finn-LOL Finn has the most stuff cut out and LOL this would NOT be the first time a black male had this done to him.
The Faculty from 1998 with Usher-who was not only featured in the trailer but the print ads as well including the cast shot for Tommy HIllfigure. Like Finn-a TON of his footage got cut from the film with some of it in the trailer. Also Rasisda Jones's sister had all her footage cut-you see her BRIEFLY in one scene.
Scream 2 Hi Jada & Omar-dying within two minutes of the film despite being plastered on everything.
To Save A Life-going by the press and trailer one would think Arjay Smith & Robert Bailey Jr had big roles (as they were the biggest names in the film).
Or the reverse-Vacancy 2-despite not being showcased as a big time player in the film Arjay Smith was in the movie LONGER than his white male lead who got offed 15 minutes into the film.
I wold think anything with Panther would have been done before that movie. Seeing that we know we got a part two-expect a stealth Black Panther movie with a resurrected Killmonger with an unnamed weather witch.
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[QUOTE=goku200;3620159]Ask WB if they care about legs after Batman v Superman dropped like a rock and Wonder woman had huge legs, Civil war was a fail only because it's Avengers 2.5 not a solo film, so it should have been much bigger.[/QUOTE]
Why are you acting like the Black Panther movie was the norm? It wasn't anywhere close to the norm, that film was highly irregular especially for a big budget film in recent years. That movie was an unprecedented landmark event. Outside of Avatar and Star Wars the Force Awakens there are very very very few other proportional films to Black Panther's success (if any).
Batman v Superman turned a profit. It didn't live up to DC's lofty expectations, but that has to do with a lot of factors such as mismanagement and poor budgeting not to mention critical reception. You know what helps a film exceed expectations good press. Especially good mainstream press by big name critics, news outlets etc. All the DCEU fans on twitter and youtube didn't do anything to convince the general audience the people following those outlets was either going to see the film in theaters or not at all (a good bunch may have watched it illegally).
A lot of big budget blockbuster movies get saved by China. Look at the last few transformer films. A Dogs Purpose and the newest Mummy movie. Black Panther is notable for the bulk of its success coming without doing exceedingly well at the Chinese box office. It didn't do badly in China by any means, but it wasn't a breakout hit and thats kind of unprecedented for a movie in this genre and budget seeing this level of success.
Wonder Woman was also seen as a landmark event. Wonder Woman's box office gross is actually less than BvS, but because it had a cheaper and much more reasonable budget coupled with rave reviews it made some more money. Don't discount reviews. I don't think they are the be all and end all but for the casual fans who aren't as invested thats the difference between buying a ticket and waiting for HBO/Netflix. Plus once again you're taking a movie that is an outlier to support your argument.
I believe your overall point is that the industry should learn from its success and cater to them, but Hollywood is a very lazy copycat industry only seeing innovation every now and than. I mean when you are gambling with millions of dollars you want to take calculated risks. Change happens slowly or not at all, so just remember this is still Hollywood and Disney we are talking about.
[QUOTE=Dboi654;3620299]Listening to Grace Randolph's review, she did have some issues with the BP characters.[/QUOTE]
Grace is interesting. She offers some unique insights that I don't see from a lot of other people and tends to highlight the feminine perspective, but what I dislike is she tries to much to push her opinion as fact when that is often not the case and she doesn't back up her more questionable claims with substantive data. Still thats par for the course I can live with that. However, what I don't like is her comic book references which only seem to extend back 8 or 9 years (at most) anything else is just wikipedia or something from cartoons and when she makes statements solely based on that she seems very misleading. I won't get into the whole fake review campaign against DC allegations and John Campea etc.
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[QUOTE=Jabare;3619960]might be. Cvil War didn't have bad legs. That film didn't do nearly as well as Black Panther for all the reasons we realize, but Black Panther is one of the best films in movie history and its box-office success validates that.
I also don't think your giving fans enough credit. My parents and older relatives went out to see Black Panther and they don't even like superhero films. They most likely won't see IW. Black Panther was an event! I have friends who don't watch too many movies, that work on Wall Street etc. and don't follow movies or pop culture like I do, but they saw Black Panther. The Black Panther film was the event of 2018. I don't think people should expect IW too replicate that. I feel bad for people who might think that because they will be disappointed.[/QUOTE]
[B] Exactly, here's the best way to describe it. People have been waiting for IW for 10 years, however, people have been waiting for something like BP ever since cinema became a big thing..[/B]
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;3620336]
I wold think anything with Panther would have been done before that movie. Seeing that we know we got a part two-expect a stealth Black Panther movie with a resurrected Killmonger with an unnamed weather witch.[/QUOTE]
Really unlikely. Kevin Feige just warned people to not expect the X-Men or FF characters popping up anytime soon since the deal won't even be official until 2019. There's a chance she could be in the actual Black Panther sequel, though, I guess.
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;3620329]From what she said, I think her reasoning are quite legitimate in the sense that she expected more.[/QUOTE]
What she say specifically?
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[QUOTE=Lord Morph;3620427]What she say specifically?[/QUOTE]
Basically considering how popular the BP mythos is with the huge success of the film, she didn't like how downplayed they were in the film which was mind boggling to her.
But hey, that's what happens when you have too many characters to joggle.
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there are so many characters in this film, maybe too many for some people. I believe the Russos will do their best to give everyone at least one moment, but the film has to have a center for it to work. I believe there is one character that will have to get the most focus and have the biggest story arc. Every other character else will just be weaved in to the plot in service of the overarching story
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[QUOTE=Dboi654;3620450]Basically considering how popular the BP mythos is with the huge success of the film, she didn't like how downplayed they were in the film which was mind boggling to her.
But hey, thats what happens when you have to many characters to joggle.[/QUOTE]
Well it's not like they were going to do reshoots after BP's success. I don't think Marvel/Feige/Russos had any idea at the time the film would be as successful as it was. I guess this means that none of the characters get any real notable feats which is a little disappointing, but considering the solo was a huge moneymaker for them, you can expect they will do right by BP going into Phase 4.