Regarding Wakandan mythology, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Maahes and Mafdet, accept no substitutes.
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Regarding Wakandan mythology, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Maahes and Mafdet, accept no substitutes.
[QUOTE=Ekie;2272663]The Coats master plan
Step 1
Disolve the monarchy
Step 2
Disolve the religion
Step 3
Turn wakanda into a catholic nation that holds general elections and loves fast food![/QUOTE]
It wouldn't be hard to write a story from Man Ape's point of view where the Wakandans are oppressing his people.
Wakanda is effectively a theocracy and if you don't worship Bast, you get jobbed over.
So it could be a story about that aspect of the canon.
All you need is for the story to be not about Man Ape in particular (which won't be hard since he is likely dead).
[QUOTE=VOLTRON;2272522]I shredded my copies of #1-#4.
Read #5 in the store.
[B]Gotta see all sides if I'm gonna argue with folks who like this run[/B].[/QUOTE]
I like it generally, but I think the people who are viewing it with a critical eye have expressed merited concerns. I still enjoy the story though.
[QUOTE=Random4;2272310]Why do you guys think Priest decided to write Deathstroke, instead of try and convince Marvel for another Black Panther run?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JediKage;2272391]Well for one Priest has made it clear he doesn't want to pigeonholed as a Black Writer.
For two in general I don't think its good for writers to come back after an iconic run. [/QUOTE]
And, for two and a half, Priest’s run was not considered a financial or sales success. After the initial Marvel Knights arc it was a perennial low-selling book. As Priest said himself, it was constantly on the verge of cancellation, so much so that they eventually tried the desperate gimmick of replacing T’Challa with a gun-toting, trench-coat wearing, half-White American, hoping that would make it more “relatable” to the mostly-White marketplace. So while the people who did enjoy Priest’s run (of which I am mostly one, despite several disagreements with his particular approach), and believe it’s “iconic”, there weren’t enough of them to sustain the book. So, objectively speaking, Priest already “failed” once (I stress, I’m simply talking sales, not quality), therefor why would Marvel hire him back for that same book? It’s great that they’ve collected his run, but unless those collections are selling in huge numbers, there’s no reason to think his return would do any better this time.
But also, to JK’s other point, when certain runs reach iconic status it probably is best for the writer to not return, as lightning rarely strikes twice. I know John Byrne has said that in recent years, whenever asked about if he would return to the Fantastic Four, he says he wouldn’t (unless he owned them outright), because he feels that in the decades since his original run it’s become built up higher than even he thinks it deserves, and he doesn’t think there’s any way he could match that success, so he wouldn't want the pressure.
It’s like if Alan Moore finally agreed to write a sequel to Watchman, is there any way it could possibly live up to the original at this point? I mean, that would be like Frank Millar trying to write a sequel to The Dark Knight Returns. Imagine how bad THAT would be. . .
[QUOTE=JediKage;2272207]So maybe he should take his butt down to Image and just write about some Yoruba Chieftain Super Hero with vast oil reserves.[/QUOTE]
I've been thinking of something among those very lines myself lately. . .
[QUOTE=iblogalot;2273558]And, for two and a half, Priest’s run was not considered a financial or sales success. After the initial Marvel Knights arc it was a perennial low-selling book. As Priest said himself, it was constantly on the verge of cancellation, so much so that they eventually tried the desperate gimmick of replacing T’Challa with a gun-toting, trench-coat wearing, half-White American, hoping that would make it more “relatable” to the mostly-White marketplace. So while the people who did enjoy Priest’s run (of which I am mostly one, despite several disagreements with his particular approach), and believe it’s “iconic”, there weren’t enough of them to sustain the book. So, objectively speaking, Priest already “failed” once (I stress, I’m simply talking sales, not quality), therefor why would Marvel hire him back for that same book? It’s great that they’ve collected his run, but unless those collections are selling in huge numbers, there’s no reason to think his return would do any better this time.
But also, to JK’s other point, when certain runs reach iconic status it probably is best for the writer to not return, as lightning rarely strikes twice. I know John Byrne has said that in recent years, whenever asked about if he would return to the Fantastic Four, he says he wouldn’t (unless he owned them outright), because he feels that in the decades since his original run it’s become built up higher than even he thinks it deserves, and he doesn’t think there’s any way he could match that success, so he wouldn't want the pressure.
It’s like if Alan Moore finally agreed to write a sequel to Watchman, is there any way it could possibly live up to the original at this point? I mean, that would be like Frank Millar trying to write a sequel to The Dark Knight Returns. Imagine how bad THAT would be. . .[/QUOTE]
[B]It's hard because Priest rub was underrated hardcore, people now more hype it up more because they went back and Read it. But it would also be hard because Yes the pressure would be astronomical for him to live up to the hype, however, I would think it would be cool if he did a kinda 1-2 issue mini just kinda cleaning up loose ends.[/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2273626][B]It's hard because Priest rub was underrated hardcore, people now more hype it up more because they went back and Read it. But it would also be hard because Yes the pressure would be astronomical for him to live up to the hype, however, I would think it would be cool if he did a kinda 1-2 issue mini just kinda cleaning up loose ends.[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the only way I could see a Priest return to Black Panther making sense, if it was for a special miniseries or one-shot, not for an open-ended run. Not necessarily to tie-up loose ends from his run (although if he could do that within the course of the larger main story, then fine), as again that would appeal to the small dedicated Priest fans, you'd also want to reach people who became fans of BP after Civil War or with Coates' run. I'd say the same about Reggie Hudlin too, bringing him back to write the BP ongoing wouldn't make as much sense either. But him doing another miniseries to tell about a specific event in BP's history, like how he followed up his run with the miniseries telling of Captain America meeting BP in WWII. Do something like that as a special tie-in with the upcoming movie.
Off the top of my head, my first thought was a miniseries updating the original story of how BP meet the Fantastic Four. As I pointed out earlier, many of the details in that original story no longer fit, so a "Year One"-style re-retelling could be in order. But then Marvel's not too keen on spotlighting the FF for the foreseeable future, so that's likely out of the question. Or maybe a Black Panther vs. Killmonger series with him either returning from the dead again, or retelling of their past history. Or a BP vs. Klaw story. While folks here have been discussing their problems with the character, since he is due to be in the BP movie it makes sense to have another go round with him. Or even a story with modern day team-up with Captain America.
Black Panther is going to have his own panel for NYCC
[url]http://www.newyorkcomiccon.com/en/Sessions/31507/MARVEL-50-Years-of-Black-Panther[/url]
[QUOTE=iblogalot;2273661]That's the only way I could see a Priest return to Black Panther making sense, if it was for a special miniseries or one-shot, not for an open-ended run. Not necessarily to tie-up loose ends from his run (although if he could do that within the course of the larger main story, then fine), as again that would appeal to the small dedicated Priest fans, you'd also want to reach people who became fans of BP after Civil War or with Coates' run. I'd say the same about Reggie Hudlin too, bringing him back to write the BP ongoing wouldn't make as much sense either. But him doing another miniseries to tell about a specific event in BP's history, like how he followed up his run with the miniseries telling of Captain America meeting BP in WWII. Do something like that as a special tie-in with the upcoming movie.
Off the top of my head, my first thought was a miniseries updating the original story of how BP meet the Fantastic Four. As I pointed out earlier, many of the details in that original story no longer fit, so a "Year One"-style re-retelling could be in order. But then Marvel's not too keen on spotlighting the FF for the foreseeable future, so that's likely out of the question. Or maybe a Black Panther vs. Killmonger series with him either returning from the dead again, or retelling of their past history. Or a BP vs. Klaw story. While folks here have been discussing their problems with the character, since he is due to be in the BP movie it makes sense to have another go round with him. Or even a story with modern day team-up with Captain America.[/QUOTE]
[B]I would honestly just be satisfied with Priest or Reggie doing a 2 issue mini essentially consolidating T'Challa's back story. I would mix both Reggie and Hudlin's takes into one. Wakanda has been undeafeated for 10k Years due to their warrior heritage AND being an isolated nation. Klaw comes along and kills T'Chaka, T'Challa takes klaws hand etc etc. Then uses his massive genius to Bring Wakanda to rhw most advanced superpower natipon we all know it to be. Keeps both feats from each story while promoting T'Challas massive feat as a super genius. [/B]
[QUOTE=Shadey;2273883]Black Panther is going to have his own panel for NYCC
[url]http://www.newyorkcomiccon.com/en/Sessions/31507/MARVEL-50-Years-of-Black-Panther[/url][/QUOTE]
Interesting panel. Hopefully they'll livestream it.
[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2273243]It wouldn't be hard to write a story from Man Ape's point of view where the Wakandans are oppressing his people.
[B]Wakanda is effectively a theocracy[/B] and if you don't worship Bast, you get jobbed over.
So it could be a story about that aspect of the canon.
All you need is for the story to be not about Man Ape in particular (which won't be hard since he is likely dead).[/QUOTE]
Interesting point. If the Panther Cult is the state religion, it will be interesting to learn/read about how other religious groups are treated within the nation and how much freedom they may or may not have.
[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2274113]Interesting panel. Hopefully they'll livestream it.[/QUOTE]
I hope they do. Although I wish they were given more than an hour. I think they should get at least 2.
[QUOTE=Shadey;2273883]Black Panther is going to have his own panel for NYCC
[url]http://www.newyorkcomiccon.com/en/Sessions/31507/MARVEL-50-Years-of-Black-Panther[/url][/QUOTE]
Wow!! Thats awesome.
[video=youtube;qe4C-y-HUS0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe4C-y-HUS0[/video]
Wakanda is a Divine Right Monarchy.
Difference with Wakandas theocracy is that Bast is right there. You could go say hi
She might eat you but still lol.
For all we know, the White Gorilla or Lion God are just really, really bad dudes and worshipping them is like worshipping Satan.
Or there have been some horrid things done in there name in the past so associating with them now is equal to getting a swatzica tattoo
Lots of ways you could make the BP god is favored thing look good.
I expect Coates to take depressing "oppressed people" route though. Art will be pretty again at least.
Maybe one of these days he wil get aroind to writing a super hero book with adventures and action and super powers and stuff
[QUOTE=nj06;2272496]For those of you who are currently not enjoying Coates' BP, why do you all keep reading it? We are almost halfway thru this run and some of you have not liked this series since issue #1. I'm curious, what is preventing you all from dropping the title completely?[/QUOTE]
I did. As things stand, right now, Marvel is getting exactly $0.00 of my money.
[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;2273071]1. He doesn't want to be pigeonholed as a black writer.
2. He's always wanted to be given a prime-time hero like Batman to write. Given that Deathstroke is Anti-Batman, it enough to stretch his canvas out on.
3. No good comes of a writer coming back to an all-time iconic run. What Priest did back then was revelatory. Right now, it'd be merely great, and the gulf between those two might upset some fans.
4. He's probably got a little more juice at DC right now given how badly they need good writers.[/QUOTE]
5. He's DONE his Black Panther story. In fact, he's done several of them. The only thing that would bring him back, I think, is if he had something new to say about the character, not for a "victory lap" arc, which history has shown is rarely worth it. Look at the diminishing returns every time Claremont went back to X-Men....
In fact, here's a quote from an interview with Priest over on Bleeding Cool that addresses that very point.
[QUOTE]HS: Is it a character that you would like to go back to at some point? Do you still have ideas for him or have you said everything you want to say with him at this point?
CP: No, I’ve done everything with Black Panther other than turn him into like a fry cook. I can’t imagine what story I would write. Marvel did call me last year and floated that idea of me returning to Black Panther and I graciously declined and said you need some fresh ideas and some fresh people.
I think they made some brilliant choices. I’m looking forward to great things from Mr. [Ta-Nehisi] Coates and how that’s going to work. But no, I couldn’t imagine what I would write with Black Panther.[/QUOTE]
As for the whole Yoruba thing... it's just another example of Coates running roughshod over the mythos to turn it into his own vision. In fact, I suggested as much in a post on this thread, a few weeks back:
[QUOTE=Beware Of Geek;2235695]I have a sneaking suspicion that the whole Shuri subplot is will eventually show that Bast is somehow not the "true" Panther God(dess), and all this faffing about with the Djalia is leading to the reveal of the real deal, in accordance with ancient Wakandan spiritual traditions (that Coates will make up).[/QUOTE]
Called it?
If Coates does that...Smfh
[QUOTE=nj06;2274122]Interesting point. If the Panther Cult is the state religion, it will be interesting to learn/read about how other religious groups are treated within the nation and how much freedom they may or may not have.[/QUOTE]
Priest explored that route a little with the Ape cult. But the other cults rarely get any love in the stories
I do kinda hope Coates explores this area more. It's a nice way of adding more heroes and villains for the franchise.
[QUOTE=nj06;2272496]For those of you who are currently not enjoying Coates' BP, why do you all keep reading it? We are almost halfway thru this run and some of you have not liked this series since issue #1. I'm curious, what is preventing you all from dropping the title completely?[/QUOTE]
Well folks can still get .cbr files soooooo
[QUOTE=robreedwrites;2274249][video=youtube;qe4C-y-HUS0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe4C-y-HUS0[/video][/QUOTE]
A few weeks ago, I was at Onyxcon and they interviewed the stunt actor for BP. Guy is seriously ripped.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2274576]Difference with Wakandas theocracy is that Bast is right there. You could go say hi
She might eat you but still lol.
For all we know, the White Gorilla or Lion God are just really, really bad dudes and worshipping them is like worshipping Satan.
Or there have been some horrid things done in there name in the past so associating with them now is equal to getting a swatzica tattoo
Lots of ways you could make the BP god is favored thing look good.
I expect Coates to take depressing "oppressed people" route though. Art will be pretty again at least.
Maybe one of these days he wil get aroind to writing a super hero book with adventures and action and super powers and stuff[/QUOTE]
In the few times we've seen the lion god and it's followers, they definately came off as jerks.
But I do think there's a story to tell with the Ape cult. Even though tgry're usually the bad guys there's a few sympathetic threads that cab be pulled.
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2274576]Difference with Wakandas theocracy is that Bast is right there. You could go say hi
She might eat you but still lol.
For all we know, the White Gorilla or Lion God are just really, really bad dudes and worshipping them is like worshipping Satan.
Or there have been some horrid things done in there name in the past so associating with them now is equal to getting a swatzica tattoo
Lots of ways you could make the BP god is favored thing look good.
I expect Coates to take depressing "oppressed people" route though. Art will be pretty again at least.
Maybe one of these days he wil get aroind to writing a super hero book with adventures and action and super powers and stuff[/QUOTE]
[B]It would be better if, since he was saying Bast hasn't been seen in a long time (since he is choosing this route)that other gods lion god, gorilla god etc. See this as a chance to have their own champions come forward to change the direction of Wakanda. Maybe have some new villains (maybe some familiar ones too) to try and take the reins. But Bast should not be erased out if the mythos. BP has 50 years of rich mythos ripe for exploration, and Coates should know better then to come in and just change sh*t because he wants to. Build off what's been shown, not erase it for your own vision [/B]
Especially since MCU specifically brought Bast up
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2274793]Especially since MCU specifically brought Bast up[/QUOTE]
[B]Exactly. It would make zero sense to erase that out entirely. Like yes MU and MCU don't Have to follow each other, BUT there are some big changes that shouldnt be change when the MCU is showing otherwise for new fans. Bast and T'Challa as King and Wakanda having a monarch. Those should stay consistent Which sucks because those seem to be under fire in the solo.[/B]
In his last interview "the Deathstroke/award" interview Priest said he'd be down for a BP prose novel
I'd buy a that( hell aim buying Deathstroke and I don't even really care for Deathstroke) like I did with Larry Hama's Civil War prose novel cause Larry Hama is another writer who doesn't get his due despite being better then the mediocre writers who get props for farting
[B][I]Chadwick Boseman on Black Panther Movie: ‘It’s Going To Be a Big Deal’[/I][/B]
[url]http://www.cbr.com/chadwick-boseman-on-black-panther-movie-its-going-to-be-a-big-deal/[/url]
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2274647]If Coates does that...Smfh[/QUOTE]
Looks more like when than if.
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2274823][B]Exactly. It would make zero sense to erase that out entirely. Like yes MU and MCU don't Have to follow each other, BUT there are some big changes that shouldnt be change when the MCU is showing otherwise for new fans. Bast and T'Challa as King and Wakanda having a monarch. Those should stay consistent Which sucks because those seem to be under fire in the solo.[/B][/QUOTE]
It would make zero sense. But judging but what we've been seeing so far would you really be shocked? Coates clearly intends to tell his story whether it makes sense or not. I'm not saying that this is what he has planned but I wouldn't be shocked.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2275208]It would make zero sense. But judging but what we've been seeing so far would you really be shocked? Coates clearly intends to tell his story whether it makes sense or not. I'm not saying that this is what he has planned but I wouldn't be shocked.[/QUOTE]
[B]I would be shocked based on where the movie is taking the character. Add to the fact that T'Challa just got the mantle back, it would be odd to lose it again. He should really take that into consideration when telling his story because it matters [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2275243][B]I would be shocked based on where the movie is taking the character. Add to the fact that T'Challa just got the mantle back, it would be odd to lose it again. He should really take that into consideration when telling his story because it matters [/B][/QUOTE]
It matters us, but does it matter to him? He's already stated that he has issues with the monarchy and he's been undermining it so far in his story. Whatever is going to happen in the Panther movie doesn't seem to have any bearing on how Coates' intends to tell his story.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2275200]Looks more like when than if.[/QUOTE]
Truly the worst writer ever for BP. I would take Mayberry back in a heart beat. Smfh
[QUOTE=Victor Freeman;2275273]Truly the worst writer ever for BP. I would take Mayberry back in a heart beat. Smfh[/QUOTE]
Just save us the headache and ask David Liss to come back. He deserves to finish the story he was telling.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2275252]It matters us, but does it matter to him? He's already stated that he has issues with the monarchy and he's been undermining it so far in his story. Whatever is going to happen in the Panther movie doesn't seem to have any bearing on how Coates' intends to tell his story.[/QUOTE]
[B]It just seems counterintuitive, like how Steve Rogers came back to live before the cap Movies it makes sense T'Challa would get his mantle back before Cw which depicts hin as king. My hope is Coates is challenging the monarch but ultimately show's why it work's for the best in Wakanda. I feel it would be easier to get that point across if we based it off of Priest's depiction in which T'Challa is the in who brought Wakanda to the advanced society that we know. But but still there is a reason despite being unconquered and more advanced for 10k years that Wakanda chose to Keep a monarch and I hope Coates doesn't forget that important part. [/B]
[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2275304][B]It just seems counterintuitive, like how Steve Rogers came back to live before the cap Movies it makes sense T'Challa would get his mantle back before Cw which depicts hin as king. My hope is Coates is challenging the monarch but ultimately show's why it work's for the best in Wakanda. I feel it would be easier to get that point across if we based it off of Priest's depiction in which T'Challa is the in who brought Wakanda to the advanced society that we know. But but still there is a reason despite being unconquered and more advanced for 10k years that Wakanda chose to Keep a monarch and I hope Coates doesn't forget that important part. [/B][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000000"]I would hope he doesn't forget that either. Right now, Coates isn't telling a very balanced story. There isn't a counter argument so far to the pro spin that he's put on Tetu, Zenzi and their followers. There's been more sympathy for Aneka and Ayo than there has been understanding of T'Challa. That has been the biggest turnoff of this story. T'Challa has flaws yes but he loves his country and everything that he's done has been to protect Wakanda and save Earth.
If the Wakandan people have complaints about the past few events then by all means they have a right to voice their concerns, a right that has never been denied them by T'Challa or any previous Black Panther. We jumped right into the middle of a rebellion and Wakandan slding backwards. WoW may explain the backstory of how this all came to be but we'll be 6-8 issues in before we see that. And it still won't do anything tochange my perception of this story and how T'Challa and Wakanda have been mismanaged and misrepresented.[/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2275252]It matters us, but does it matter to him? He's already stated that he has issues with the monarchy and he's been undermining it so far in his story. Whatever is going to happen in the Panther movie doesn't seem to have any bearing on how Coates' intends to tell his story.[/QUOTE]
If Disney & Marvel have something to say about it-it will match.
One thing Marvel does not play is whoever is a main player in their movies with be the same in the comic.
Now Falcon is the first exception but he was still active in both medias. THor same thing so all that crying is for nothing. So if BP is the king in the movie-he will be in the comic.
[QUOTE=Marvell2100;2275298]Just save us the headache and ask David Liss to come back. He deserves to finish the story he was telling.[/QUOTE]
I think for the most part Liss did finish the story he was telling.
His run was essentially about T'Challa getting his confidence back post Doom War (and finding himself or whatever) and by the end of that run he got it back and returned to Wakanda.
There's probably a Kasper Cole story that still needs to be told, though I'm not gonna hold my breath for that one.
[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2275448]If Disney & Marvel have something to say about it-it will match.
One thing Marvel does not play is whoever is a main player in their movies with be the same in the comic.
Now Falcon is the first exception but he was still active in both medias. THor same thing so all that crying is for nothing. So if BP is the king in the movie-he will be in the comic.[/QUOTE]
I actually remember when the Hulk movie first came out, Red Hulk was the focus of the book in Loebs run. So while synergy is probable, I don't think marvel necessarily shys away from having the book deviate from the movies. Falcon and Red Hulk show that the comics are more than willing to do their own thing.
That said, in all likelihood T'Challa will be king in both.
Coates is going to tear down Black Panther Mythos Piece by Piece.
[QUOTE=XPac;2275493]I think for the most part Liss did finish the story he was telling.
His run was essentially about T'Challa getting his confidence back post Doom War (and finding himself or whatever) and by the end of that run he got it back and returned to Wakanda.
There's probably a Kasper Cole story that still needs to be told, though I'm not gonna hold my breath for that one.[/QUOTE]
David Liss doing an American Tiger mini-series (Can't have him be called White Tiger and American Panther is slightly too derivative so meld them both) would be aces.
Im still not sure why Kasper isnt part of the new Crew.
Certainly closer to Tchalla than Misty Knight