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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2260408][B]All the MCU needs to do is make villains more memorable like Loki and they would reach a ridiculously high ceiling no other company could even hope to achieve[/B][/QUOTE]
That's tough to do because of how limited their screen time is. You're spending so much time establishing the hero there's often not a whole lot of time left.
And it's why Net Flicks have such awesome villains. They get 13 hours to flesh these characters out rather than 2, and thus we end up with villains you almost want to root for.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2260676]That's tough to do because of how limited their screen time is. You're spending so much time establishing the hero there's often not a whole lot of time left.
And it's why Net Flicks have such awesome villains. They get 13 hours to flesh these characters out rather than 2, and thus we end up with villains you almost want to root for.[/QUOTE]
[B]But Like it was said we got a little intro to T'Challa laready so we don't have to watch him come into the Role As BP do the whole origin story because it was mainly covered in CW[/B]
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2260717][B]But Like it was said we got a little intro to T'Challa laready so we don't have to watch him come into the Role As BP do the whole origin story because it was mainly covered in CW[/B][/QUOTE]
And that might be a good blue print of introducing characters in the future, at least when you can it organically.
Because Black Panther and Spider-Man showed up in Civil War, they don't need to go the origin story route. That usually spends at least a third of the movie just setting the hero up.
I get why Strange needed his own movie since that's a whole other category within the MU, but it's a shame they couldn't debut Carol somewhere else (maybe Guardians 2) It worked really well for Spidey and T'Challa.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2260408][B]All the MCU needs to do is make villains more memorable like Loki and they would reach a ridiculously high ceiling no other company could even hope to achieve[/B][/QUOTE]
Characters like Loki and Magneto work because they are borderline sympathetic in thier motivation (with Xmen franchise spending the last 3 movies doubling down on making Mags sympatheic). Stane is such an affable SOB (and pre-hero Tony is such a tool) that he can make wanting to off his partner seem ALMOST reasonable.
Vanko had a Legit beef with Tony Stark's pops. Then he didn't. But he didn't get much development either way.
There's no way to make Red Skull borderline sympathic unless you are showing your movie to an audience of neo-nazis. Makleth wants the Asgardians dead just because they exist. Thanos is a tyrannical space overlord (and his comic version is even worse being a demi god with a death fetish).
We never saw the Space War that Ronan is pissed about and even if we HAD Ronan was a straight up War Criminal (look what he did to Drax's family) who
is just mad that his side lost.
There are a LOT of comic bad buys who fall into the catagory of ax crazy/evil for evil's sake types that are impossible to sympathize with.
Sometimes however, you can act your way out of the hole the script puts you in.
Batman '80 is mainly about set design and watching Jack go dark (again). Ledger turned in a great perfomance that was so good
it covered up how Joker's plans made no sense even by his logic (if at at point somebody just shoots him the movie ends).
Terrance Stamp's Zod is so wonderfully archly arrogant that he's just fun to watch even tho he is just an evil would be overlord with a grudge.
Michael Shannon didn't have that.
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I kinda agree about bp and kinda dont.
You had a small but sizable portion of the audience we werr too dumb to realize tchalla had powers and itwasnt justva suit.
IF IF IF you were paying attention to AoU and CW, all you still know is that they were isolated, they have vibranium , they are ruled by a king, they are protected by a warrior in a cat suit made of vibranium, and that protrctor passes from warrior to warrior. And tgey have s cool cat statue.
Tchalla is still crazy mysterious. We dont know the mcu origin of his powers.
There is still a lot to do to fully realize him and wakanda. Not as much as others bc atvleast we know his name but his true origin isnt as known or simple as spider man. Hell, the comics dont even have one consistent origin story for him and wakanda lol
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2260768]Characters like Loki and Magneto work because they are borderline sympathetic in thier motivation (with Xmen franchise spending the last 3 movies doubling down on making Mags sympatheic). Stane is such an affable SOB (and pre-hero Tony is such a tool) that he can make wanting to off his partner seem ALMOST reasonable.
Vanko had a Legit beef with Tony Stark's pops. Then he didn't. But he didn't get much development either way.
There's no way to make Red Skull borderline sympathic unless you are showing your movie to an audience of neo-nazis. Makleth wants the Asgardians dead just because they exist. Thanos is a tyrannical space overlord (and his comic version is even worse being a demi god with a death fetish).
We never saw the Space War that Ronan is pissed about and even if we HAD Ronan was a straight up War Criminal (look what he did to Drax's family) who
is just mad that his side lost.
There are a LOT of comic bad buys who fall into the catagory of ax crazy/evil for evil's sake types that are impossible to sympathize with.
Sometimes however, you can act your way out of the hole the script puts you in.
Batman '80 is mainly about set design and watching Jack go dark (again). Ledger turned in a great perfomance that was so good
it covered up how Joker's plans made no sense even by his logic (if at at point somebody just shoots him the movie ends).
Terrance Stamp's Zod is so wonderfully archly arrogant that he's just fun to watch even tho he is just an evil would be overlord with a grudge.
Michael Shannon didn't have that.[/QUOTE]
Its weird that Loki is sympathetic seeming bc in the mcu... ging by just tge facts, hes just an egotistical, power hungry sociopath eith a victim complex
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2259846]I'm not worried about Killmonger's screentime.
In the history of Marvel, we can confirm that they will NOT sacrifice the main heroes screen time for anyone else, including the villain.
The villain is a one off (typically) thing... T'challa is the franchise. He is the one goign to show up in Infinity War, BP 2, BP 3, Avengers 5, ect.
Killmonger is going over Warrior's Falls and never will be seen again.
The big question to me is... does T'challa get to beat Killmonger or do they keep it like the comics where someone else intervenes at the last second. That has already happened in the MCU (Tony is 0/3 being able to defeat the final villain by himself, 0/4 if you count CW)
The time frame doesn't fit Bucky being dethawed yet. This movie is supposed ot take place right after CW... that means Bucky would have been in ice for all of a minute. Im 50/50 on Bucky's involvement. It would have to be done gracefully for it not to look bad.[/QUOTE]
It better not be Bucky defeating Killmonger, I'll say that. T'Challa or a small child, no one else.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2260801]It better not be Bucky defeating Killmonger, I'll say that. T'Challa or a small child, no one else.[/QUOTE]
If Monica is in the movie, I could see her.
Worse than Bucky saving T'challa wouldbe......
Ross
[img]http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/hrk.gif[/img]
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2260768]Characters like Loki and Magneto work because they are borderline sympathetic in thier motivation (with Xmen franchise spending the last 3 movies doubling down on making Mags sympatheic). Stane is such an affable SOB (and pre-hero Tony is such a tool) that he can make wanting to off his partner seem ALMOST reasonable.
Vanko had a Legit beef with Tony Stark's pops. Then he didn't. But he didn't get much development either way.
There's no way to make Red Skull borderline sympathic unless you are showing your movie to an audience of neo-nazis. Makleth wants the Asgardians dead just because they exist. Thanos is a tyrannical space overlord (and his comic version is even worse being a demi god with a death fetish).
We never saw the Space War that Ronan is pissed about and even if we HAD Ronan was a straight up War Criminal (look what he did to Drax's family) who
is just mad that his side lost.
There are a LOT of comic bad buys who fall into the catagory of ax crazy/evil for evil's sake types that are impossible to sympathize with.
Sometimes however, you can act your way out of the hole the script puts you in.
Batman '80 is mainly about set design and watching Jack go dark (again). Ledger turned in a great perfomance that was so good
it covered up how Joker's plans made no sense even by his logic (if at at point somebody just shoots him the movie ends).
Terrance Stamp's Zod is so wonderfully archly arrogant that he's just fun to watch even tho he is just an evil would be overlord with a grudge.
Michael Shannon didn't have that.[/QUOTE]
Which is why Hunter will be T'challa's best foe in the movie-verse if they follow the storyline. His story is sympathetic and his hate is understandable while at the same time he isn't pure evil and loves Wakanda
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260911]If Monica is in the movie, I could see her.
Worse than Bucky saving T'challa wouldbe......
Ross
[img]http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/hrk.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
If they hypothetically wanted to retain the "T'Challa has never beaten Killmonger" aspect in the movies that the comic book version did, there are a couple ways of doing it. Such has having a supporting character stop him like Pepper did in Iron Man, or perhaps having Klaw turn on Killmonger. If more Avengers or MCU characters are in the movie, that's another route as well.
But the most obvious option is still T'Challa beating him. THat's how it usually works.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2260926]Which is why Hunter will be T'challa's best foe in the movie-verse if they follow the storyline. His story is sympathetic and his hate is understandable while at the same time he isn't pure evil and loves Wakanda[/QUOTE]
I think M'Baku is potentially sympathetic if they play with the idea that the Gorilla cult might have been held down in Wakandan culture.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2260801]It better not be Bucky defeating Killmonger, I'll say that. T'Challa or a small child, no one else.[/QUOTE]
I think Steve defeating Bucky would actually be kinda funny.
It would be the battle of the Human Torches.
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I think they can use something close to Killmongers actual origin and make him slightly sympathetic.
They can make us think it is simple "take the throne" story. Killmonger gets klaws help, halfway through the movie, killmonger turns on him and kills him.
We find out while klaw is dying that klaw and his men killed killmongers family to keep tgem quiet as he smuggled vibranium out. Killmongers blames tchaka and thus tchalla by extension for not doing there job as BP and protecting his family
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260979]I think they can use something close to Killmongers actual origin and make him slightly sympathetic.
They can make us think it is simple "take the throne" story. Killmonger gets klaws help, halfway through the movie, killmonger turns on him and kills him.
We find out while klaw is dying that klaw and his men killed killmongers family to keep tgem quiet as he smuggled vibranium out. Killmongers blames tchaka and thus tchalla by extension for not doing there job as BP and protecting his family[/QUOTE]
I'm sure Coogler will find a way to make his boy a sympathetic figure.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2260997]I'm sure Coogler will find a way to make his boy a sympathetic figure.[/QUOTE]
[B]I will never understand why you hate directors using people thru know are solid for roles they would be good for [/B]
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[QUOTE=XPac;2260934]I think M'Baku is potentially sympathetic if they play with the idea that the Gorilla cult might have been held down in Wakandan culture.[/QUOTE]
It's the year of Harambe, so who knows? Maybe they'll cheer cus Harambe, maybe they'll be sad because M'Baku had to eat a White Gorilla heart cus Harambe.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2260932]If they hypothetically wanted to retain the "T'Challa has never beaten Killmonger" aspect in the movies that the comic book version did, there are a couple ways of doing it. Such has having a supporting character stop him like Pepper did in Iron Man, or perhaps having Klaw turn on Killmonger. If more Avengers or MCU characters are in the movie, that's another route as well.
But the most obvious option is still T'Challa beating him. THat's how it usually works.[/QUOTE]
I could see Killmonger switching sides, fwiw. Not at all my choice, but we don't know how they'll portray the character in the movie (certainly, him teaming up with Klaw is such an antithesis to the character that we can't assume anything).
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260130]We should also point out that all the Black Panthers that appear before T'Challa when he communes with them are all male as well:
[CENTER][IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1b/3a/22/1b3a228c5af5999f397d2de6d335e3ba.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-75qIOyxbTUI/VmA7iwBZ5xI/AAAAAAAAiPQ/130qGEo8QHI/s1600/3904238-screen%252Bshot%252B2014-06-19%252Bat%252B4.56.32%252Bpm.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
Also, BP's of the past all seem to be men:
[CENTER][IMG]https://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/blackpanther4page2.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER][/QUOTE]
It looks like there are only 17 Black Panthers that T'Challa is communing with...that can't possibly be all of them from the past 10,000 years. Maybe the remaining Black Panther's are out of our visual range, right? Or maybe he's not communing with all of them at that moment. Or is it possible T'Challa summoned only the ones he wanted to talk to about that specific topic (incursions)?
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2260997]I'm sure Coogler will find a way to make his boy a sympathetic figure.[/QUOTE]
Damn, you [I]really[/I] don't like MBJ being in this movie lol...
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2261087]Damn, you [I]really[/I] don't like MBJ being in this movie lol...[/QUOTE]
Yeah i dont fet it. If mbj couldnt act id be on the hate train to but... dude can act
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2261034][B]I will never understand why you hate directors using people thru know are solid for roles they would be good for [/B][/QUOTE]
I think it's really that he just doesn't want MBJ as Killmonger.
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2260997]I'm sure Coogler will find a way to make his boy a sympathetic figure.[/QUOTE]
Killmonger about to blow up and the emotion you chose is to be salty
I ain't had a good lol since this morning on Marvel's fb where folks who clearly haven't read a issue of Black Panther in a decade flipped out over them posting a picture of Shuri with their cries of "How dare they replace T'Challa"
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2261087]Damn, you [I]really[/I] don't like MBJ being in this movie lol...[/QUOTE]
Just that role lol.
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260130]We should also point out that all the Black Panthers that appear before T'Challa when he communes with them are all male as well:
[CENTER][IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1b/3a/22/1b3a228c5af5999f397d2de6d335e3ba.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-75qIOyxbTUI/VmA7iwBZ5xI/AAAAAAAAiPQ/130qGEo8QHI/s1600/3904238-screen%252Bshot%252B2014-06-19%252Bat%252B4.56.32%252Bpm.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
Also, BP's of the past all seem to be men:
[CENTER][IMG]https://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/blackpanther4page2.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER][/QUOTE]
Incorrect.
There's a female Black Panther depicted in the very last scan you posted. (The one wearing thejeweled mask. )
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[B][SIZE=4]Afrofuturist 19th Century Wakanda[/SIZE][/B]
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/n1xgxy.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/zjt36b.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/2nv9wus.jpg[/IMG]
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[SIZE=4][B]King T'Challa, Man of the people.[/B][/SIZE]
[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/14sk1z6.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/5cefj5.jpg[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2261559]Incorrect.
There's a female Black Panther depicted in the very last scan you posted. (The one wearing thejeweled mask. )[/QUOTE]
Good find.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2261568][SIZE=4][B]King T'Challa, Man of the people.[/B][/SIZE]
[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/14sk1z6.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/5cefj5.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
One of my favorite scenes ever. Simple but powerful and the core of who and what BP is.
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[QUOTE=Mr MajestiK;2261565][B][SIZE=4]Afrofuturist 19th Century Wakanda[/SIZE][/B]
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/n1xgxy.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/zjt36b.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/2nv9wus.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
This is excellent ! (the other posts too BTW)
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The anti gun thing was always kinda neat and made since. Had to have an answer to how they would have been unconquered for so long
[img]https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-toqnYcuwLjg/V4f11eZSadI/AAAAAAAAHvU/3j6sRDRPocYCrVBVnjuZdnogl2SInirAQCLcB/s1600/stop%2Bguns%252C%2Bhudlin%2B32.JPG[/img]
[img]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-04mEYlXSZqI/V4fzTI8s4rI/AAAAAAAAHu0/xsNhdfJ98gksn2nd2-QeAY5o7F1na_IdwCLcB/s1600/tech%2Bin%2Bbelt%2Bcauses%2Bguns%2Bto%2Bbackfire%252C%2Bhudlin%2B11.JPG[/img]
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[QUOTE=Ekie;2261475]Just that role lol.[/QUOTE]
Going by what has blown up in comics type movies before, you what your villain to be somebody that A)can act and B)can be sympathetic.
Like Fassbinder.
Michael Jai White can fight, but his acting up to a certain point is ehhhh.
That is not a brother you want attempting an African type accent.
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hi is so smart and deadly ! i love the Black Panther !!
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2261061]I could see Killmonger switching sides, fwiw. Not at all my choice, but we don't know how they'll portray the character in the movie (certainly, him teaming up with Klaw is such an antithesis to the character that we can't assume anything).[/QUOTE]
Anytime you have 2 villains, there's always a pretty descent chance one will turn on the other or show themselves to be the lesser of 2 evils.
I could see them going the Loki route with Killmonger, simply because he's a popular actor and there's a descent chance they'll want to use him again. Regardless of his relationship with the director, the guy can put butts in seats.
I'd personally like it if every movie had a few villains stick around so they can go the Masters of Evil route somewhere down the line. At this point we wouldn't have much of a MoE line up, cause they keep killing them off.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2261759]Anytime you have 2 villains, there's always a pretty descent chance one will turn on the other or show themselves to be the lesser of 2 evils.
I could see them going the Loki route with Killmonger, simply because he's a popular actor and there's a descent chance they'll want to use him again. Regardless of his relationship with the director, the guy can put butts in seats.
I'd personally like it if every movie had a few villains stick around so they can go the Masters of Evil route somewhere down the line. At this point we wouldn't have much of a MoE line up, cause they keep killing them off.[/QUOTE]
Right now, Abom/Blonsky is in a cell somewhere laughing and saying, "there can only be one"
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I was somewhat pleased with Zemo surviving even if the character they created isn't particularly likely to lead the Masters of Evil anytime soon.
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2261877]I was somewhat pleased with Zemo surviving even if the character they created isn't particularly likely to lead the Masters of Evil anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
Im kinda hoping he gave himself some of that new SSS in the bunker and breaks out of prison to form masters of evil later.
Unlikely as hell but whatever
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[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2261877]I was somewhat pleased with Zemo surviving even if the character they created isn't particularly likely to lead the Masters of Evil anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
Zemo was interesting. He's ARGUABLY the most sucessful villain and he's the most ordinary character in the MCU you can possible imagine. No powers, no uber skills, no evil organization... just some smart guy with a big chip on his shoulder who managed to get one over on the Avengers and Wakanda. He lost in the end, but he achieved his goals.
I'm definately glad he survived. I wonder if he'll show up in the BP movie at some point. At this point I'd definately say in the MCU he's got more claim to being a BP rogue than a Cap rogue.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2261909]
I'm definately glad he survived. I wonder if he'll show up in the BP movie at some point. At this point I'd definately say in the MCU he's got more claim to being a BP rogue than a Cap rogue.[/QUOTE]
Which I'm kind of iffy about, but I guess it works in the context of the MCU and Civil War.
I do hope if he ever shows up again, and gains powers somehow to where he's at least on comic!Zemo's fighting level, that T'Challa and Cap tag-team him in the inevitable "Avengers vs. Masters of Evil" bout.
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the Panther-vehicles in the film need to be impressive. He needs a cool road car as well as a cool boat, and we've already seen a jet-- though we can still see a new one, for sure. I'd also like to see a sky bike.
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I really hope the 'leaked' info isn't true because for me it has some problems:
[list][*]MCU Erik Killmonger being Wakanda's strongest warrior doesn't really sound like MU Erik or MU M'Baku or MU Hunter, and this info sounds like a combination of the three. IIRC M'Baku is stated to be second only to T'Challa and Killmonger is at least T'Challa's equal but [I]has never beaten him in a fair fight[/I], or has done so only once (IIRC the second time, Tchalla was distracted and the third time, Monica Rambeau intervened), and Hunter is not even near T'Challa's level. And the Russo brothers (sort of) already stated the T'Challa is Wakanda's strongest warrior in an interview I can't find atm. The only way i can see this sort of working is if Erik is one of Wakanda's best [I]soldiers[/I], is [I]one of[/I] Wakanda's best warriors, or is the best in his village.[*]MCU Erik Killmonger being the one to take the crown but T'Challa taking it to avenge his father instead is really quite dumb. We already know that T'Challa was [I]a[/I] Black Panther by the time of CA:CW (as stated by the Russo brothers or the screenplay writers some time ago, hence him having his own Black Panther habit and the powers), became king (as MindofShadow already stated) and chose to no longer avenge his father [I]in the same movie[/I]. If T'Challa wants to avenge his father now in this movie, it will just take away from the (great) character development he had in CA:CW.[*]Nakia being a childhood friend of T'Challa and then becoming a member of his Dora Milaje sounds weird. It sounds like they're trying to throw a little Storm in there but I can't see that working, especially with a love triangle including Killmonger. Though at least it will confirm those Lupita as love interest rumours.[*]How exactly will Killmonger use the accords considering Wakanda has voiced their support for it? At this level it makes no sense to me[*]Four white American/European men in the cast doesn't really sound like "90% African American or African" to me, and three of those white characters have no affiliation with the CIA, which Lupita let slip.[*]Exploring the mythology of the Black Panther and the traditions and customs of Wakanda sounds good, though I think Kevin Feige already said this so it's nothing new.[/list]
All in all, this doesn't really sound like a political thriller to me, and Feige described the Black Panther movie as a "geopolitical adventure", which to me, sounds like a lot of travelling? I'm not sure.
Either way, like many others, I call BS.