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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2260105]Reg's run implies that she was/would be the first.
That was the Annual that was set in the near future.
You might be thinking of Zawadi.
[URL="http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Zawadi_(Earth-616)"]http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Zawadi_(Earth-616)[/URL]
But she isn't a Black Panther exactly.
She's a Wakandan warrior woman who said "eff rules" ate the HSH and gained the Panther powers herself.
How does that mesh with the continuity of the Priest/Hudlin runs. It doesn't.
But Zawadi was created in '98 before those series so her creator didn't have continuity concerns.[/QUOTE]
thsi is my first time hearing about this person
damnit i'll neer find those issues lol
Re: Annual... any near future stuff has to be seen as non-canon though or an alternative timeline. Especially considering Storm is no longer Queen.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260115]how many actual canon BPs can we actually name period???
Bashenga
Azzuri
T'chaka
S'yan
T'challa
Shuri
I might be missing one im sure got mentioned somewhhere
Then you have those future kids than aren't 100% canon I guess... I believe the younger daughter went on to become the "great bp ever" or something after the oldest kid bit the dust I think.[/QUOTE]
We should also point out that all the Black Panthers that appear before T'Challa when he communes with them are all male as well:
[CENTER][IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1b/3a/22/1b3a228c5af5999f397d2de6d335e3ba.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-75qIOyxbTUI/VmA7iwBZ5xI/AAAAAAAAiPQ/130qGEo8QHI/s1600/3904238-screen%252Bshot%252B2014-06-19%252Bat%252B4.56.32%252Bpm.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
Also, BP's of the past all seem to be men:
[CENTER][IMG]https://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/blackpanther4page2.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260114]Shuri was/is the first female BP? People talk about how progressive Wakanda is, and yet in 10,000 years, they've only ever had one female BP?[/QUOTE]
As far as leadership goes, they're arguably not progressive in that they seem to decide this sort of thing through trial combat. Which (and I'm trying NOT to sound sexist here) probably favors men.
You can almost argue Shuri got the BP mantle on a fluke. If Shuri had actually had to best T'Challa to get the BP mantle in combat, odds are pretty descent she never would have been BP.
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260078]Besides Shuri, can any of you name any other female Black Panthers that have existed in the 616 MU? We know that other female BP's have been mentioned, but can any of you name them by their actual names? I can't think of any.[/QUOTE]
Not a single one. She's the only named one to date, as far as I know.
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[QUOTE=XPac;2260113]I think it's at least posible that Spider-Man and Black Panther will be adopting a slightly different formula with their solo movies, because unlike the other heroes their solo will be their second appearance rather than their first.
They already confirmed that Tony Stark will show up in the Spider-Man movie, which is an obvious continuation to what they set up in Civil War. They have not confirmed Bucky or Steve to be in Black Panther, but the ending credit scene sort of points to that.
I think the difference is that for both Spider-Man and Black Panther, they started their stories prior to the solo movie and their solo is almost somewhat a sequal to something that's already happened. And that's already a change from the previous solo movies in terms of formula. Though again, it theoretically could also just be end credit stuff. They say Stark isn in Spider-Man, but no one is necessarily saying it's a big role. As other have said, it could just be end credit stuff. We'll see. But if Stark did play a larger role in than than in the Spidey movie I wouldn't be shocked if Cap and Bucky didn't play larger roles in the BP movie.[/QUOTE]
Given that the cast will apparently be 90% black people and it'll be a coming of age story of BP as king with Killmonger as a main bad guy... i think they're going to follow the same formula of minimal or no guest appearances. Spider-man is unique for many reasons (and politics) outside of Civil War. We have 16 years of regurgitated spidey movies to know his cinematic background, so i could see them switching it up. Even then, only slightly. Whereas BP would be closer to IM, Cap, Thor, Ant-Man, etc.
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260114]Shuri was/is the first female BP? People talk about how progressive Wakanda is, and yet in 10,000 years, they've only ever had one female BP?[/QUOTE]
Eh... you can be "more progressive" than others while still not being that far ahead. If they were say... 200 years ahead of people, that still leaves 9800 years of the status quo
Anyone that has argued that Wakanda is super progressive is looking at it from a fantasy land scenario. I mean shit, they stopped the tribal fighting by having them present wives in training lol.
Or maybe the line of Kings has a stronger swimming Y chromosome sperm, and everyone was male until T'chaka added in some South African blood :)
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260114]Shuri was/is the first female BP? People talk about how progressive Wakanda is, and yet in 10,000 years, they've only ever had one female BP?[/QUOTE]
In the Hudlin run, it is alluded that there were female BPs in the past, but none were named. Shuri is still the only named female BP so far.
[IMG]https://s11.postimg.org/4591ylzer/female_bp.png[/IMG]
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2260153]In the Hudlin run, it is alluded that there were female BPs in the past, but none were named. Shuri is still the only named female BP so far.
[IMG]https://s11.postimg.org/4591ylzer/female_bp.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
/discussion
On panel is always the best way lol
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2260141]Not a single one. She's the only named one to date, as far as I know.[/QUOTE]
Patriarchy at its finest.
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[IMG]http://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgdmo7mxlV1qfheiw.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/32897/1207272-shuri___dm2.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
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[QUOTE=Realdealholy;2260153]In the Hudlin run, it is alluded that there were female BPs in the past, but none were named. Shuri is still the only named female BP so far.
[IMG]https://s11.postimg.org/4591ylzer/female_bp.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Wasn't this a dream world in which Storm, BP, Thing, and Johnny were having their minds manipulated? Is what Storm is seeing even true to Wakandan history or just apart of the fabricated dream world?
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So at least one un-named fem Panther.
Probably only one given the ghostly sausage party we always see in this context.
And far enough back where the memory of a sitting Queen was distant history also.
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260179]Patriarchy at its finest.
[/QUOTE]
No, its "no one really cares about the 1000ish Wakanda leaders outside T'chaka (only for death), T'challa, and Shuri"
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I hope that we get to see more female BP's soon.
I want to know more about them. A total of 2, Shuri and some unnamed female BP leaves room for plenty of story potential.
Perhaps we will read more about them in World of Wakanda.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260191]No, its "no one really cares about the 1000ish Wakanda leaders outside T'chaka (only for death), T'challa, and Shuri"[/QUOTE]
I care about them and would like to know more about them. Hickman's ancestral sausage fest was a missed opportunity to show/feature some female BP's.
I wonder if Shuri will meet any while she is in Djalia.
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260196]I hope that we get to see more female BP's soon.
I want to know more about them. A total of 2, Shuri and some unnamed female BP leaves room for plenty of story potential.
Perhaps we will read more about them in World of Wakanda.[/QUOTE]
I would like to know more about ANY of them honestly.
We probably know more about S'yan than any of the other "old" panthers and he was BP for only like 10 years max. Just because he was still hanging around afterwards.
We got Flags of our Fathers, a few flashbacks of T'chaka, some Ghost T'chaka, then some Ghost nameless BP's.
The past BP's aren't fleshed out at all. They are basically generic African warrior bad asses. AKA just like every other rotating BP supporting cast member.
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260199]I care about them and would like to know more about them. Hickman's ancestral sausage fest was a missed opportunity to show/feature some female BP's.
I wonder if Shuri will meet any while she is in Djalia.[/QUOTE]
By no one I was more pointing to "non BP hardcore peeps." Sorry to confuse.
I think its highly likely we see some BP's in Djalia and highly likely some of them are female
I'm more curious to see how T'challa is treated in Djalia when he gets there since his ancestors dipped out on him
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2259846]I'm not worried about Killmonger's screentime.
In the history of Marvel, we can confirm that they will NOT sacrifice the main heroes screen time for anyone else, including the villain. [/QUOTE]
... Loki? :confused:
[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260010]It is especially important than an MCU villain is a great actor because you are only going to get so much screen time in an MCU movie. They have to be able to make it count. Even doubly so if he is sharing villain screen time with Klaw[/QUOTE]
And half of them still manage to be unmemorable. :cool:
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260210]I would like to know more about ANY of them honestly.
We probably know more about S'yan than any of the other "old" panthers and he was BP for only like 10 years max. Just because he was still hanging around afterwards.
We got Flags of our Fathers, a few flashbacks of T'chaka, some Ghost T'chaka, then some Ghost nameless BP's.
The past BP's aren't fleshed out at all. They are basically generic African warrior bad asses. AKA just like every other rotating BP supporting cast member.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. While the male BP's have not been [B]fleshed[/B] out, the female BP's (if any besides Shuri) have not been [B]featured[/B] at all. I would like to see some stories about T'Challa and Shuri's ancient great-great-great-great ^10th power grand-mama laying the smack down on some would be invaders or usurpers.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260217]By no one I was more pointing to "non BP hardcore peeps." Sorry to confuse.
I think its highly likely we see some BP's in Djalia and highly likely some of them are female
I'm more curious to see how T'challa is treated in Djalia when he gets there since his ancestors dipped out on him[/QUOTE]
Since the Panther Force Ghosts are all male(at least when they appeared to T'Challa), its probably no coincidence that the Djalia are all female.
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;2260224]... Loki? :confused:[/quote]
He is literally the only one... and in Thor 1 that wasn't the case.
But really... even in Thor 2, he was off screen a ton and dead a third of the movie. Loki is just so damn charismatic that he dominates when he is on screen.
And, unlike Killmonger, than had future plans for Loki with Avengers and could very well have more plans for him later (Thanos). So he is a complete anomaly. It looks like they may do the same with Mordo.
[quote]
And half of them still manage to be unmemorable. :cool:[/QUOTE]
Not really a discussion for this thread but comic book villains are HARD.
DCEU right now is batting 0/3 and Fox just re-uses Mags every movie
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260217]By no one I was more pointing to "non BP hardcore peeps." Sorry to confuse.
I think its highly likely we see some BP's in Djalia and highly likely some of them are female
I'm more curious to see how T'challa is treated in Djalia when he gets there since his ancestors dipped out on him[/QUOTE]
I would like that. I wonder of the "mother" that Shuri has been learning from is a past female BP. Or perhaps she is Bast in disguise.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2260229]Since the Panther Force Ghosts are all male(at least when they appeared to T'Challa), its probably no coincidence that the Djalia are all female.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the woman dipped out on them because they all seemed like a bunch of jackasses lol.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260233]He is literally the only one... and in Thor 1 that wasn't the case.
But really... even in Thor 2, he was off screen a ton and dead a third of the movie. Loki is just so damn charismatic that he dominates when he is on screen. [/quote] They rewrote Thor 2 after early screenings to put him more on screen. He's literally the pillar holding up that franchise.
[quote]Not really a discussion for this thread but comic book villains are HARD.
DCEU right now is batting 0/3 and Fox just re-uses Mags every movie[/QUOTE]
1/3. Zod was perfectly fine.
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Also, when T'challa got blown apart. S'yan and company expected Storm to become BP and face the Panther God. And S'yan and company were commonly depicted as old school.
There was no hesitation at the time for a female BP. Only hesitation that it was going to be Shuri.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260217]By no one I was more pointing to "non BP hardcore peeps." Sorry to confuse.
I think its highly likely we see some BP's in Djalia and highly likely some of them are female
I'm more curious to see how T'challa is treated in Djalia when he gets there since his ancestors dipped out on him[/QUOTE]
Coates seems to be on a bit of a girl power kick, so it's as likely a time as ever to possibly at least mention other female BP's. They're obviously long dead so we shouldn't expect a whole lot, even if it is shown.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260243]Also, when T'challa got blown apart. S'yan and company expected Storm to become BP and face the Panther God. And S'yan and company were commonly depicted as old school.
There was no hesitation at the time for a female BP. Only hesitation that it was going to be Shuri.[/QUOTE]
When your god is female (or at least has female attributes when she's in humanoid form), it's much easier to buy an acceptance of a female authority figure.
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;2260242]They rewrote Thor 2 after early screenings to put him more on screen. He's literally the pillar holding up that franchise. [/quote]
the Thor/Loki relationshp si why I love that movie more than I should.
Oh and Kurse. Kurse was a boss.
I don't want to talk about Malekith or the Earth crew though.... [quote]
1/3. Zod was perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]
Well if "fine" is the barometer, then I would say Stane, Loki, Ross/Abom, Skull, Ultron, Mandarin, WS/Pierce, Zemo were all perfectly fine comic book villains.
You said memorable, not fine initially though.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260255]the Thor/Loki relationshp si why I love that movie more than I should.
Oh and Kurse. Kurse was a boss.
I don't want to talk about Malekith or the Earth crew though....
Well if "fine" is the barometer, then I would say Stane, Loki, Ross/Abom, Skull, Ultron, Mandarin, WS/Pierce, Zemo were all perfectly fine comic book villains.
You said memorable, not fine initially though.[/QUOTE]
Apologies, memorable. And no, most of those villains were pretty bad. Ross/Abom and Stane were "fine". Rest were eh.
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[QUOTE=MrHashasheen;2260281]Apologies, memorable. And no, most of those villains were pretty bad. Ross/Abom and Stane were "fine". Rest were eh.[/QUOTE]
Gonna have to agree to disagree if you think one note dumb plan zod is fine (or even worse memorable) but those other guys are bad.
Which is fine. Subjective blah blah blah
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Every time I see a DC movie:
[CENTER][IMG]http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/8ecbe604-ab4a-4ca3-83ed-58e86d58c323/c047735e-78cc-474b-bb3e-be3061656026.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]
They simply aren't as good as the MCU films to me.
[CENTER][IMG]https://67.media.tumblr.com/f26a7f6a00887d32f9a547509f3ee598/tumblr_nyei31O2CW1tf70vho1_500.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]
Thankfully T'Challa was a boss in Civil War.
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[CENTER][IMG]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kcLs3dVQb7Y/Vu9TcGU29TI/AAAAAAAADvE/klxvcqVMmZQyVAasbGXsCgIj1gajNCe4g/s1600/Black_Panther_panel.gif[/IMG][/CENTER]
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Same issue T'challa first gave Karnak the business
[img]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4yab-uIhNZ8/V7HbpdxjMHI/AAAAAAAAIDM/LMyfDMw4qWIVZDHHOaewy6HmVvhxIg4nACLcB/s1600/dodges%2Band%2Bdecks%2Bkarnak%252C%2Bf4%2Bannual%2B5.JPG[/img]
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260394]Same issue T'challa first gave Karnak the business
[img]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4yab-uIhNZ8/V7HbpdxjMHI/AAAAAAAAIDM/LMyfDMw4qWIVZDHHOaewy6HmVvhxIg4nACLcB/s1600/dodges%2Band%2Bdecks%2Bkarnak%252C%2Bf4%2Bannual%2B5.JPG[/img][/QUOTE]
LOL!
You would think that Karnak would have learned:
[CENTER][IMG]http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/7604/574851-blz17.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
He made ol' cue ball go night-night real quick!
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[B]All the MCU needs to do is make villains more memorable like Loki and they would reach a ridiculously high ceiling no other company could even hope to achieve[/B]
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I might be more forgiving of DC because they're my introduction to superheroes while Black Panther was my introduction to comics. Marvel's Phase 1 had a good start in IM1 and TIH, then Thor was kind of eh and IM2 felt like dreck and Cap was carried wholly by Haley Atwell. Phase 2 had Cap bringing it, Thor continuing to be eh, IM3 being terrible and then Guardians shocking the world. I didn't bother to see Ant-Man and then Cap 3 was very great.
But that's just my opinion.
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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2260408][B]All the MCU needs to do is make villains more memorable like Loki and they would reach a ridiculously high ceiling no other company could even hope to achieve[/B][/QUOTE]
Eh, they are already the benchmark.
Villains are just hard. Its hard to repackage "take over/destroy the city/world/universe" which describes like 90% of the villains over and over again.
Red skull is evil nazi dude in comics. Mcu skull is evil nazi dude in movie. Yet he "sucked." People have nostalgia glasses on when it comes to comic book villains in comics.
And establishing them while taking nothing away from the hero, who is going to be in 5 different movies.
Hell, ledger joker is one of tge greatest ever and you see people complain the movie shoukd be called The Joker and not Dark Knight
Hard to do in 2 hours. If loki actually died in thor 1, people wouldnt praise him as much. But hes had 3 going on 4 movies wirth of screen time. You can only do do much in 2 hours.
And its not just mcu problem. Doom sucked 3x, galactus sucked, paralax sucked, lex ridler sucked, apoc sucked, viper /samurai dude sucked, electro, venom, second goblin, lizard...
... and enchantress makes all those dudes look good lol
Only truly memorable viallins i can think of are the various jokers, mags, and loki.
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You got 2hrs and 30 minutes top its hard to give depth. Mags and Loki work because they have a close connection with the main hero(es) and thus get good development. Joker is a force of nature with a very specific shtick.
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[QUOTE=JediKage;2260519]You got 2hrs and 30 minutes top its hard to give depth. Mags and Loki work because they have a close connection with the main hero(es) and thus get good development. Joker is a force of nature with a very specific shtick.[/QUOTE]
Which is why killmonger being a childhood friend might work.
One thing wirking against killmonger is he is going to lose screen time if they flesh out Wakanda at all.
If they give it the "asgard" treatment... aka narrative prologue to start movie, then killmongwr has more time. But tgen u lose the fully realized Wakanda
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[QUOTE=nj06;2260406]LOL!
You would think that Karnak would have learned:
[CENTER][IMG]http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/7604/574851-blz17.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]
He made ol' cue ball go night-night real quick![/QUOTE]
I actually feel kinda bad for Karnak.
With his powerset you'd think he'd be a pretty formitable fighter. But really, I can't recall him ever winning any fights against any non red shirts or racking up any feats against anything with a pulse. I'm sure especially now that he's got his own book (which I'm not reading) he's managed to pick up a few, but I'd say he's an under achiever. Ah well.
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2260528]Which is why killmonger being a childhood friend might work.
One thing wirking against killmonger is he is going to lose screen time if they flesh out Wakanda at all.
If they give it the "asgard" treatment... aka narrative prologue to start movie, then killmongwr has more time. But tgen u lose the fully realized Wakanda[/QUOTE]
In the least that's the upside of T'Challa debuting in Civil War. You don't need to spend MUCH time introducing T'Challa and Wakanda. The audience goes into the movie at least having the Cliffs Notes version of them. Which isn't to say they can't or won't spend sometime fleshing them out, but in the least most members of the audience aren't starting out at 0.
Whether or not we get a lot of Killmonger probably depends on whether they're going to even bother using him again. If they're just going to kill him off one movie in anyways, then he's probably not worth too much screen time.
But he's a relatively big name actor and I think that alone would justify using him again. So he'll probably get his share of love on-screen.