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[QUOTE=Ezyo1000;2532929][B] Numbers don't lie and people are getting annoyed with Coates story. This next season needs to be faster and more action otherwise sales will drop way faster and he will likely get cancelled[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree we need way more action. You can write off season one to world building.
I look at this book as almost written for TV. A lot like Marco Polo. Where the title character was maybe the least relevant character in the show
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2532841]Yes, but you were to explain the premise of the solo to someone...BP must save the spirit of his sister, while simultaneously dealing with a revolution and rampage of female bodyguards gone rogue. On the surface it still sounds more conventional than...well there's these giant floating heads in outer space that symbolize philosophical ideas and the world destroyer used to be purple but now he's gold to symbolize that he's the life bringer and the universe is slightly out of whack and there's a crazy dude made out of anti matter and he kinda floats around too...[/QUOTE]
If Wolverine & Deadpool can appear in 50 books and no questions it-why should anyone question BP in more than 2 books.
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2533273]If Wolverine & Deadpool can appear in 50 books and no questions it-why should anyone question BP in more than 2 books.[/QUOTE]
Top fanboy excuse is "cause he's not A-List"
The decoded fanboy reason is [SIZE=1]"because he's black"[/SIZE]
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2533273]If Wolverine & Deadpool can appear in 50 books and no questions it-why should anyone question BP in more than 2 books.[/QUOTE]
It's not about him being in more than one book at a time. I was just speculating why some folks might be willing to sit thru the Coates run but not read The Ultimates. I'm just saying maybe for some the concept of the title is off putting to them.
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Someone should say this to Coates.
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[QUOTE=ed2962;2533312]It's not about him being in more than one book at a time. I was just speculating why some folks might be willing to sit thru the Coates run but not read The Ultimates. I'm just saying maybe for some the concept of the title is off putting to them.[/QUOTE]
I mean, if us "hardcore Black Panther fans" can barely stomach this book not because of anything controversial or debate-worthy but just due to the pure unadulterated cosmic boredom it passionately embraces us with coupled with a three-panels-of-relevance average for BP himself... i don't think it's surprising that the greater comic book community doesn't really hug the book back.
But to be fair, we don't have enough data to properly assess the Ultimates. This is what we do know: Before both books relaunched, the final two issues of Ultimates were both around 26k apiece while the final two of Captain Marvel were at 23k apiece. We also know that Ultimates^2 #1 relaunched at 34k with a slight overshipping assist but still issue #2 only sunk to 23k... which is on par with the books typical readership size (slightly lower maybe); further solidified because there wasn't over shipping for issue#2 compared to #1.
So we know Ultimates is pretty much a 22-27k book and sold slightly more than Carol's book-whom i mention because she's on the team. i.e. we know that everybody who buys Ultimates isn't buying Captain Marvel, b/c Ultimates sells more (even back in July Ultimates was 27k to CM's 23k).
What we don't know is how much of that readership size for Ultimates is there for Carol vs BP vs any of the others. i.e. if BP were removed from the book but everything was kept the same, would it still be a 22-27k book? If we somehow found out BP had a 60-80% readership share of a team book that barely includes him, idk what i'd say about that.
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I wonder if it's to learn the racial relations in the US with a first-hand perspective. In Wakanda, he's king. Learning what it's like to be a disparaged citizen first-hand would go a long way towards building up empathy as a prince/king, even though Wakanda doesn't have the same type of prejudices the US has.
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I am going to need to see this. This looks more self insert from Coogler then logical to me.
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People are running with this news and there's no actual source cited for any actual scenes, just that the film producers got permission to use the transit logo for the film.
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[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;2531219]I will never debate the following when it comes to this run
1) It's slow and lacking in action.
2) Could have used a co writer to tighten it up
Can't be argued at all. Not with any sincerety anyway.
But destroying the mythos is hyperbole.
Struggling with opponents below his weight class is so common in comics that's is like complaining about traveling in the NBA.
Taking BP off the throne is also common. Whether you have Hudlin giving Shuri the title or Priest playing goofy games with Killmonger or Ross. Hell, look at how Gilli's played with Bast in his run.
Actually what we have seen is additions to the mythos. New rogues. A replacement father figure type, and a distinct take on Shuri.
The Five Year run. Capt Kirk didn't get one, so I will hold my breath with Coates.
Dem Editors Ain't Loyal:)[/QUOTE]
He isn't taking T'challa off the throne though... he is removing the monarchy. That is very very different. That is MUCH harder to reverse by future writers. He is changing a fundamental aspect of Wakanda and T'challa that has been around for 50 years because it made him feel "real life icky."
That is definitely changing the mythos, not a simple "telling a story" IMO. Whether that is destroying part of the mythos is up to the reader I suppose. I don't like it because it fundamentally changes a unique aspect of T'challa. He is literally the only heroic monarch in the MU.
He also seemingly removed the DM and their function from the mythos as well. Positive or negative is once again up to the readers.
THis isn't the same thing is depowering, killing, or what not.
One of my issues is, he lost the throne due to getting nearly killed. He went through hells kitchen crap to "find himself" after that, which is a common trope. Things should have been building toward him being "worthy" to hold the title of king and retaking the throne... instead he was given the throne for 5 minutes before someone decided to just remove the throne. It is kind of deflating as a T'challa fan. People come back from the dead faster than T'challa can simply reclaim a title that is his birthright lol.
[QUOTE=C_haos;2532593]Hudlin BP was also in the midst of an X-Men crossover at that time as well, and Priest BP was also Enemy of the State.. let's not forget that Maberry BP #9 sold around 20,334. To be an issue 9 with no overt links to the main MU I think it might be considered a success depending on the editorial goals and if you factor in the audience they are aiming for with online subs and trade sales it might be doing better than anticipated. 5 years thing might be less or more now that he is working on other books and as more venues to tell his story...
[/QUOTE]
You don't get bonus points for choosing to not tie in to the MU lol. I am sure Marvel would much rather have stamped a nice shinny CIVIL WAR II TIE IN on an issue.
Priests 9 didn't see any large bump because of the EotS storyline. It feel right in line with the general loss of readership issue to issue. And I am not sure crossign over with the Xmen really gave Hudlin anytime of large boost. He was selling in that range at the time anyway. But hudlin's run was full of peaks and valleys based on what was going on in the 616 as a whole and how he was tying in.
Mayberry was using a legacy hero. Not going to fault them too much for that. shuri was ahead of her time Blade style.
I am not sure why Priest and Hudlin get pre qualifying statements about their sales but Coates are so much more wholesome despite a different type of qualifying statemetns existing... including T'challa being front and center in an Avengers book and Event for 4 years prior to Coates run. Even if you wanna hand wave all the movie connections and merch that exists now... you can't handwave that. Priest and Hudiln never got that sort of comic push. Priest did a character that couldn't sell crap and revamped him and Hudlin's lead in was a Kasper Cole story. Not quite the same.
The issue with comparing eras more so has to deal with the comic market at the whole, which is likely shrinking, and Diamond numbers are no long the end all be all thanks to digital, trades, marvel unlimited, and the numerious pirating sights at there.
[QUOTE=C_haos;2532716]I don't buy the correlation between movie audience and comic audience. Blade 1-3 certified in my opinion the character is A List however he can't appear to carry an ongoing. I think crossovers/events and creative teams with audiences mean a little more when it comes to comic sales. Hudlin was great at promoting the character I remember press releases on BET, Vibe, XXL, NYT and Wall Street. However, during that time comic shops were limited, Coates is benefitting not only because of the promotion but also because of digital.[/QUOTE]
Blade was simply ahead of his time. Marvel's movie synergy didn't start to ramp up big time until I think Avengers movie era. That is when they released Avengers Assemble by Bendis which no one could really figure out if it was canon or not that featured the movie team and Thanos being the villain (or a thanos clone? not sure lol). From there it basically took off to seeing the most hamfisted movie synergy of all time (Nick Fury Jr and Coulson) and then blossomed into what it is today: stuff like GoG re-emerging (with an A list writer) and then solos for each of the members, Netflix solo and Defenders for everyone but poor Luke Cage, Quake comes back, people care about Lang, Hope magically appears, latino Ghost Rider comes back, CWII appears out of nowhere with no build up, ect ect.
If Blade was released now... he'd look exactly like Snipes or whoever and would be called Daywalker every other sentence lol.
[QUOTE=Mike_Murdock;2533058]It's a slow burn at best. At best it's Bendis's Daredevil. At worst, it's Bendis's Civil War II. The specifics are of personal opinion, but I definitely think it'll read better than trade because it's going to be slow.[/QUOTE]
More like omnibus that trade if we are being frank. Buying book 1 or 2 will get you nowhere
[QUOTE=HUTHAIFA;2533255]Bendis run is a good comparison. Didn't always portray Matt in the best light. Bendis took him down a very dark path, and you really didn't see any light until Waid.
I think Bendis DD run is far superior though but Bendis was in the comic game for like ten years before DD.[/QUOTE]
I think Matt still pushed the narrative though and was the most intersting character of the group. And still heroic.
I dont' feel the same way about T'challa in Coates run. I feel teh upcoming T'challa convo with CHangamire could be the highlight of the book and that feels icky lol. But I feel like this run has been building towards that. A match of wit between titans. Fight (err) of the Century!
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[QUOTE=Kasper Cole;2533690]People are running with this news and there's no actual source cited for any actual scenes, just that the film producers got permission to use the transit logo for the film.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/01/13/ac-transit-bus-could-get-screen-time-in-forthcoming-marvel-movie/"]http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/01/13/ac-transit-bus-could-get-screen-time-in-forthcoming-marvel-movie/[/URL]
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[QUOTE=Rumble;2533603]I mean, if us "hardcore Black Panther fans" can barely stomach this book not because of anything controversial or debate-worthy but just due to the pure unadulterated cosmic boredom it passionately embraces us with coupled with a three-panels-of-relevance average for BP himself... i don't think it's surprising that the greater comic book community doesn't really hug the book back.
But to be fair, we don't have enough data to properly assess the Ultimates. This is what we do know: Before both books relaunched, the final two issues of Ultimates were both around 26k apiece while the final two of Captain Marvel were at 23k apiece. We also know that Ultimates^2 #1 relaunched at 34k with a slight overshipping assist but still issue #2 only sunk to 23k... which is on par with the books typical readership size (slightly lower maybe); further solidified because there wasn't over shipping for issue#2 compared to #1.
So we know Ultimates is pretty much a 22-27k book and sold slightly more than Carol's book-whom i mention because she's on the team. i.e. we know that everybody who buys Ultimates isn't buying Captain Marvel, b/c Ultimates sells more (even back in July Ultimates was 27k to CM's 23k).
What we don't know is how much of that readership size for Ultimates is there for Carol vs BP vs any of the others. i.e. if BP were removed from the book but everything was kept the same, would it still be a 22-27k book? If we somehow found out BP had a 60-80% readership share of a team book that barely includes him, idk what i'd say about that.[/QUOTE]
i think it would sell the same. I feel Ultimates is a pure comic nerd niche thats going to sell 20ish every day of its existence.
Just take BP out and find out please..... hahahah
I think it was Vic that said Ewing is the new PAD and that fits 100%
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Random Thought...
Duggan, the writer for UA and Deadpool, is going to write GoG... likely meaning he's done with Uncanny Avengers
Errr
What if Coates is writing the new Uncanny Avengers?
The crew already had a mutie on it...... UA has always done its own thing as far as "tying in" with everyting else....
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;2533273]If Wolverine & Deadpool can appear in 50 books and no questions it-why should anyone question BP in more than 2 books.[/QUOTE]
I'd make the argument that they aren't really beholden to anyone, or, at the very least, not the leader of a nation.
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[QUOTE=Danileriver23;2533945]I'd make the argument that they aren't really beholden to anyone, or, [B]at the very least, not the leader of a nation.[/B][/QUOTE]
one positive of no monarchy is at least that hang up will be gone forever.